Strokes Posted 5 February 2018 Posted 5 February 2018 6 minutes ago, toddybad said: You know what buce? I can't be bothered with this anymore. Of course we're going to be poorer. But they don't care. I can't understand why, but they don't. I really can't understand why for those Brexiters with young families. For the older generation the fall out won't really affect them. It's nuts. I don’t care.
Rogstanley Posted 5 February 2018 Posted 5 February 2018 (edited) 15 minutes ago, toddybad said: You know what buce? I can't be bothered with this anymore. Of course we're going to be poorer. But they don't care. I can't understand why, but they don't. I really can't understand why for those Brexiters with young families. For the older generation the fall out won't really affect them. It's nuts. I think it’s something to do with not liking EU law, although they can’t describe the function of any EU law in particular. It doesn’t seem to matter that we will likely replace those laws with either the exact same laws or laws which make life worse for ordinary people, on the basis that we have the democratic power to vote the government out. Although these are people who will vote Tory no matter the scale of their underperformance thanks to their religious levels of loyalty to and faith in their masters. Among all the contrived and flawed arguments there must be a legitimate reason in there somewhere. The one thing we can say for sure is that it’s definitely not for the simple reason that they don’t like foreigners. Absolutely not, no way. They have foreign friends and everything. Edited 5 February 2018 by Rogstanley 2
Guest Posted 5 February 2018 Posted 5 February 2018 17 minutes ago, Strokes said: I don’t care. I know. That was kinda my point.
Strokes Posted 5 February 2018 Posted 5 February 2018 11 minutes ago, Rogstanley said: I think it’s something to do with not liking EU law, although they can’t describe the function of any EU law in particular. It doesn’t seem to matter that we will likely replace those laws with either the exact same laws or laws which make life worse for ordinary people, on the basis that we have the democratic power to vote the government out. Although these are people who will vote Tory no matter the scale of their underperformance thanks to their religious levels of loyalty to and faith in their masters. Among all the contrived and flawed arguments there must be a legitimate reason in there somewhere. The one thing we can say for sure is that it’s definitely not for the simple reason that they don’t like foreigners. Absolutely not, no way. They have foreign friends and everything. That must be it. 1
DJ Barry Hammond Posted 6 February 2018 Author Posted 6 February 2018 9 hours ago, RumbleFox said: Haha, well my idea of fun is furiously masturbating and crying at the same time and then trying to beat my best lap time on Time Trial on Mario Circuit 1 on the original Super Mario Kart which, I suppose on reflection, is probably environmentally sustainable so the two things are not always mutually exclusive? Try swapping the activities - I reckon you’d get better overall results and thus enjoyment. 1
DJ Barry Hammond Posted 6 February 2018 Author Posted 6 February 2018 @Alf Bentley I feel I should come back to you on your post - but that seems such a long time ago on page terms! Looks fun by the few I flicked through. Anyway, I spot the latest update is the desire for a ‘Customs Arrangement’ - nice move, it’s not what is in place now which means it’s can be posed as a hard Brexit position... but could be essentially the same as the Customs Union in practice = covert softy. This really could be negotiated sermantics. But if i expand on my main point way back - in that I think i’d prefer full on hard to a softy (wouldn’t we all?) - because maybe I’d rather give the winning side their head and have a proper go at it. I get why remainers might want a soft Brexit - because it’s the closest match to what we have now and because of the economic warnings*; but if we end up losing key elements of our current position I feel staying loses even more value to the point i’m thinking - would I have then swapped sides and voted to leave? Is there not a point or times when you think - **** it, let’s have a hard Brexit just for the lols? *Personally I’m starting to think the recent economic warnings are a bit of a fudge because the government hasn’t a clue what it wants / is going to get / what Liam Fox has up his sleeve in terms of insta-trade deals; and there’s so many variables at play, it’s finger in the air stuff - intelligent, lick the tip before placing in the air style - but still wild finger waving guess work.
Buce Posted 6 February 2018 Posted 6 February 2018 (edited) 7 hours ago, Rogstanley said: I think it’s something to do with not liking EU law, although they can’t describe the function of any EU law in particular. It doesn’t seem to matter that we will likely replace those laws with either the exact same laws or laws which make life worse for ordinary people, on the basis that we have the democratic power to vote the government out. Although these are people who will vote Tory no matter the scale of their underperformance thanks to their religious levels of loyalty to and faith in their masters. Among all the contrived and flawed arguments there must be a legitimate reason in there somewhere. The one thing we can say for sure is that it’s definitely not for the simple reason that they don’t like foreigners. Absolutely not, no way. They have foreign friends and everything. Well, now I'm really confused. I thought it was about 'taking back control' of our poetry or something? Or is it something to do with grandad fighting a war with the Germans to prevent them imposing pink passports on us? At least we can agree it's nothing to do with not liking foreigners. Some of them go on holiday to that abroad. They even like curry and everything. Edited 6 February 2018 by Buce 1
Innovindil Posted 6 February 2018 Posted 6 February 2018 Decent bantz this morning. Back to racism. Good times. 1
Strokes Posted 6 February 2018 Posted 6 February 2018 1 hour ago, Innovindil said: Decent bantz this morning. Back to racism. Good times. Yeah but at least we don’t hate Jews.
Buce Posted 6 February 2018 Posted 6 February 2018 Soubry: "Remove Hard Brexiteers - they are not 'proper' Tories". http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-42955553
Webbo Posted 6 February 2018 Posted 6 February 2018 6 minutes ago, Strokes said: Yeah but at least we don’t hate Jews. They can't be anti Semitic they have lots of Jewish friends. 1
RumbleFox Posted 6 February 2018 Posted 6 February 2018 (edited) I voted remain and I wish to stay in the EU but not much I can do about it now. However, I am not quite sure how healthy or useful it is to paint (ironically or not) leavers as some kind of small minded, xenophobes who don't quite understand the system properly. I genuinely feel as somebody who you may describe as being "on the left" that things like Trump, Brexit, Scottish Independence (I now live in Glasgow) have shown us that the left has failed to win the argument and I am not sure belittling the opposition is the way to get our point across. What do we actually WANT as "left wingers"? We want to change people's minds I assume, convince them of our viewpoint? Unless some of us genuinely enjoy having people around us so that we can argue with them which seems a bit mental? Trump makes me ill but I was with someone the other day slagging off Trump voters "stupid, racist, blah blah" and I just thought what a pathetic argument and how on Earth can that kind of thinking be useful? I doubt anyone has ever been convinced to, say, stop voting for Trump, by someone calling them stupid. At the risk of sounding full on hippy (I hate hippies) we need a bit more compassion I think. X Edited 6 February 2018 by RumbleFox 2
Carl the Llama Posted 6 February 2018 Posted 6 February 2018 7 minutes ago, RumbleFox said: I voted remain and I wish to stay in the EU but not much I can do about it now. However, I am not quite sure how healthy or useful it is to paint (ironically or not) leavers as some kind of small minded, xenophobes who don't quite understand the system properly. I genuinely feel as somebody who you may describe as being "on the left" that things like Trump, Brexit, Scottish Independence (I now live in Glasgow) have shown us that the left has failed to win the argument and I am not sure belittling the opposition is the way to get our point across. What do we actually WANT as "left wingers"? We want to change people's minds I assume, convince them of our viewpoint? Unless some of us genuinely enjoy having people around us so that we can argue with them which seems a bit mental? Trump makes me ill but I was with someone the other day slagging off Trump voters "stupid, racist, blah blah" and I just thought what a pathetic argument and how on Earth can that kind of thinking be useful? I doubt anyone has ever been convinced to, say, stop voting for Trump, by someone calling them stupid. At the risk of sounding full on hippy (I hate hippies) we need a bit more compassion I think. X I agree with the rest but the point in bold is absolutely a fair cop. I'll bet everything I own that none of our regular brexiteer posters can name the 3 EU institutions, how their members are selected and how they affect each other. Not without googling it first to desperately prove me wrong. Besides I'm also certain the over-complicated 'autocratic' nature of "Brussels" (translation: "I don't understand how it works [because I've never looked for more information than my newspaper gives me]") was oft cited as a valid argument to leave.
ealingfox Posted 6 February 2018 Posted 6 February 2018 Even the people in government organising our departure don't seem to quite understand the system properly...
Innovindil Posted 6 February 2018 Posted 6 February 2018 20 minutes ago, RumbleFox said: At the risk of sounding full on hippy (I hate hippies) we need a bit more compassion I think. X Far too early in the morning for that. 6 minutes ago, Carl the Llama said: I agree with the rest but the point in bold is absolutely a fair cop. I'll bet everything I own that none of our regular brexiteer posters can name the 3 EU institutions, how their members are selected and how they affect each other. Not without googling it first to desperately prove me wrong. Besides I'm also certain the over-complicated 'autocratic' nature of "Brussels" (translation: "I don't understand how it works [because I've never looked for more information than my newspaper gives me]") was oft cited as a valid argument to leave. Far too early in the morning for this too. Can't I just go back to hating Romanians?
Carl the Llama Posted 6 February 2018 Posted 6 February 2018 3 minutes ago, ealingfox said: Even the people in government organising our departure don't seem to quite understand the system properly... The finer details of any legislature can be confusing wherever in the world you are so it's no surprise that they're stumbling around in the dark somewhat when it comes to invoking an article that nobody's ever triggered before. Our politicians should at least be able to answer the basic questions I ask above or else they really are unfit for purpose and should be jailed for fraudulently impersonating a member of public office.
RumbleFox Posted 6 February 2018 Posted 6 February 2018 13 minutes ago, Carl the Llama said: I agree with the rest but the point in bold is absolutely a fair cop. I'll bet everything I own that none of our regular brexiteer posters can name the 3 EU institutions, how their members are selected and how they affect each other. Not without googling it first to desperately prove me wrong. Besides I'm also certain the over-complicated 'autocratic' nature of "Brussels" (translation: "I don't understand how it works [because I've never looked for more information than my newspaper gives me]") was oft cited as a valid argument to leave. So you agree with 90%? of my post? Ta very much. X
Guest MattP Posted 6 February 2018 Posted 6 February 2018 On 03/02/2018 at 18:57, leicsmac said: So, bit of a brouhaha involving JRM, apparently. Seems to be about fifty different interpretations of what happened. Just when I couldn't love the guy more he does this, had that been any other leading Tory then would have been out the back door as soon as it happened, instead he comes straight down off the stage and runs towards them wanting to debate, exactly the sort of attitude we need to get rid of this behaviour. The absolute state of those who turned up to shout though, how little confidence must you have in your own opinion to show up for a protest in a balaclava? They are terrified of political debate, let's make sure we get them into a position where they have to do it, hand them a microphone next time and let them hang themselves. Expect to see more of this as well while members of the Labour front bench openly call for this sort of thing (the sunglasses man is a big Corbynista as you can see from his facebook page). I hope McDonnell is happy with himself, in fact I'm sure he is, this is exactly the sort of thing he thrives on. On 03/02/2018 at 22:47, RumbleFox said: Please enlighten me and apologies if I have misstepped. I saw someone share a post on FB saying that is what happened and have not had time to research so it may have been a biased link I saw. If nothing else I am willing and keen to admit when I am wrong. What actually happened? If ever you see something posted on Facebook that's political check it immediately, I've seen posts this week saying IDS is cutting benefits again, he resigned from his job about 3 years ago. 90% of the time it's complete bollocks. On 04/02/2018 at 17:03, Sharpe's Fox said: A united Ireland is a worthy political cause in the same respect a united Great Britain is. Hopefully the left and secularists in Ireland will win more victories and crush the power of both churches, now the greatest barrier to united country called Ireland. Would you like to see Labour commit to bringing about a united Ireland in it's next manifesto? I think the power of the church is greatly overestimated in both countries, abortion is about to be legalised by a huge distance in a referendum in the South and I think you would see the same in the north. It's more tribal than religious in my experience. 23 hours ago, Alf Bentley said: I presume May will go before the next election, but do the Tories want her to be overthrown now or to go later, once Brexit is further advanced? @Webbo @MattP @Jon the Hat Do you expect her to go if there is a challenge - and who'd you like to take over, if so? If possible I'd like her to stay until the process is complete, but if she is really does think Brexit is a bad idea then I'd rather she stood aside, Gove, Mogg, Johnson could all lead and they all see this as a huge opportunity. I still think we are a long way from a challenge, she still publicly stands by what she said in Florence and at Lancaster house, we leave the single market and the customs union, she knows the red lines and any sliding on that and she'll probably see her own backbenchers voting the deal down. If so I think we'd have the MP's rallying around a remain and a leave candidate and then the leave candidate will win when it goes over to the membership. If I had to put money on it I'd say it would be Rudd v Johnson/Gove. 21 hours ago, DJ Barry Hammond said: And in a way, i’m more comfortable with that than a soft Brexit, because at least we’d been able to strike up our own trade deals which was one of the main points of voting Leave. If you don’t have that, what was the point in Brexit? In this scenario we could also give it 5-10 years, after some successfully negotiated non EU trade deals and then go back to the EU and ask “how do you like us now?” I see soft Brexit as actually a bit shite and something remainers should probably oppose as well. We actually agree on something! I'd honestly rather they showed some balls and overturned the result than go for a soft Brexit, it really is the worst of both Worlds, taking all the rules and regulations whilst having no input whatsoever, if we are going to do that we may as well just stay in and still have our representation in the European parliament and send the rump of Eurosceptic MP's we can to try and affect policy. The whole idea of the vote was to start increasing trade with the growing global economy, makes no sense to handcuff ourselves on that. If May really does believe that Brexit is a damage limitation exercise then she should step aside for someone who sees it as a genuine opportunity, it won't work if the cabinet doesn't implement policy that tries to get the best out of it and removes all the benefits. 27 minutes ago, Buce said: Soubry: "Remove Hard Brexiteers - they are not 'proper' Tories". http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-42955553 Absolutely spot on as well, the days of every Conservative being a pro-EU, Thatcher loving free market obsessive are long, long gone and if Soubry wants that back maybe she should think about leaving rather than the other way around. Put it to the membership whether they want people like her and Nicky Morgan or Boris and Jacob Rees-Mogg as representatives of the party, she should look at her own Twitter timeline, all her support comes from pro-remain Labour or Lib Dem voters, she's insane if she thinks these people will change to voting Tory just because we go for a soft Brexit. 1 hour ago, Innovindil said: Decent bantz this morning. Back to racism. Good times. It's like a women's period, once a month it comes out for a couple of days while they've got the arse.
RumbleFox Posted 6 February 2018 Posted 6 February 2018 1 minute ago, MattP said: It's like a women's period, once a month it comes out for a couple of days while they've got the arse. Yup, there we have it, winner of the "Best Imagined Post From The 1970s Award". X
Bellend Sebastian Posted 6 February 2018 Posted 6 February 2018 Thank goodness this guy was on hand to help out "Britain's most fertile ventriloquist's dummy". https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/rees-mogg-s-defender-wore-nazi-uniform-dfmmqplr7 I wonder if actual members of the SS were so jolly?
Buce Posted 6 February 2018 Posted 6 February 2018 41 minutes ago, RumbleFox said: I voted remain and I wish to stay in the EU but not much I can do about it now. However, I am not quite sure how healthy or useful it is to paint (ironically or not) leavers as some kind of small minded, xenophobes who don't quite understand the system properly. I genuinely feel as somebody who you may describe as being "on the left" that things like Trump, Brexit, Scottish Independence (I now live in Glasgow) have shown us that the left has failed to win the argument and I am not sure belittling the opposition is the way to get our point across. What do we actually WANT as "left wingers"? We want to change people's minds I assume, convince them of our viewpoint? Unless some of us genuinely enjoy having people around us so that we can argue with them which seems a bit mental? Trump makes me ill but I was with someone the other day slagging off Trump voters "stupid, racist, blah blah" and I just thought what a pathetic argument and how on Earth can that kind of thinking be useful? I doubt anyone has ever been convinced to, say, stop voting for Trump, by someone calling them stupid. At the risk of sounding full on hippy (I hate hippies) we need a bit more compassion I think. X Nothing shows your newness to this thread more than this, Rumble. Did yesterday teach you nothing? Stubborn intransigence, Strawmen, and a refusal to acknowledge facts is all you get in return for reasoned argument.
Guest MattP Posted 6 February 2018 Posted 6 February 2018 3 minutes ago, Buce said: Nothing shows your newness to this thread more than this, Rumble. Did yesterday teach you nothing? Stubborn intransigence, Strawmen, and a refusal to acknowledge facts is all you get in return for reasoned argument. 2 hours ago, Buce said: Well, now I'm really confused. I thought it was about 'taking back control' of our poetry or something? Or is it something to do with grandad fighting a war with the Germans to prevent them imposing pink passports on us? At least we can agree it's nothing to do with not liking foreigners. Some of them go on holiday to that abroad. They even like curry and everything.
David Guiza Posted 6 February 2018 Posted 6 February 2018 15 minutes ago, RumbleFox said: Yup, there we have it, winner of the "Best Imagined Post From The 1970s Award". X Wait, what, you mean jokes about women's periods aren't funny anymore? Next you'll be telling me that Bernard Manning isn't selling out across the UK? Chubby Brown neither? Next thing you know there will be women doing jokes. I've had it with this country. .
Buce Posted 6 February 2018 Posted 6 February 2018 Just now, MattP said: You can't distinguish between banter and reasoned argument? And here was I thinking you were bright.
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