Strokes Posted 27 February 2018 Share Posted 27 February 2018 (edited) 1 minute ago, Buce said: Tory austerity. What about the 2.5 years before that? And is that austerity not impacting it now or is it just the brexit vote? Edited 27 February 2018 by Strokes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogstanley Posted 27 February 2018 Share Posted 27 February 2018 5 minutes ago, Strokes said: So is brexit responsible for the 8 years of declining wages before the vote too, or is that something else’s fault? As Buce said and as I said earlier - austerity. Before that the financial crisis. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicsmac Posted 27 February 2018 Share Posted 27 February 2018 48 minutes ago, Strokes said: That will depend on how you measure success I guess, don’t get me wrong I agree but people measure success for governments and presidents in very different ways. This is true. If a person judges such things by short term self-interest and gain for a particular group of people, then Trump has been a remarkable success. Those same people would likely view the matter from that perspective. For everyone else in the short-term and everyone including the ones in the above paragraph in the long term...there isn't an awful lot of success being had, tbh. It's like turkeys voting for a Christmas that they know is going to arrive some day and hoping like hell it isn't soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattP Posted 27 February 2018 Share Posted 27 February 2018 8 minutes ago, Strokes said: What about the 2.5 years before that? And is that austerity not impacting it now or is it just the brexit vote? It's basically whatever suits the current argument better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strokes Posted 27 February 2018 Share Posted 27 February 2018 5 minutes ago, Rogstanley said: As Buce said and as I said earlier - austerity. Before that the financial crisis. And that’s not still in play then, the austerity? 18-0 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogstanley Posted 27 February 2018 Share Posted 27 February 2018 4 minutes ago, Strokes said: And that’s not still in play then, the austerity? 18-0 Wages were slightly rising (consequence of the Tories increasing spending in the run up to the 2015 GE). Then the vote, then the collapse in the pound, then they were falling again. Any reasonable observer would be in no doubt as to what the cause was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strokes Posted 27 February 2018 Share Posted 27 February 2018 Just now, Rogstanley said: Wages were slightly rising (consequence of the Tories increasing spending in the run up to the 2015 GE). Then the vote, then the collapse in the pound, then they were falling again. Any reasonable observer would be in no doubt as to what the cause was. Reasonable observer. It’s funny you never mentioned this rise before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Realist Guy In The Room Posted 27 February 2018 Share Posted 27 February 2018 5 hours ago, Webbo said: Well all those disastrous things that were supposed to have happened by now haven't and yet some people still cling to the belief they will. Maybe remaining in the EU is a religion? For quite a lot of people, they have never lived outside it and whilst they’ve lived inside it, their lives have been pretty good. So I find it slightly unfair when remain voters get bashed for not wanting things to change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ Barry Hammond Posted 28 February 2018 Author Share Posted 28 February 2018 4 hours ago, Webbo said: And if you ignore all the positive news Brexit has been a disaster, but you and I both know that's not true. Its been a disaster for our domestic agenda. Lots of areas not getting anywhere near enough Parliamentary time - gig economy for example needs fixing properly, rather than relying on courts to provide interpretative cause law, for a position that doesn’t quite fit. Social care - lots of talk in the run up to election on this, very little in the way of action since. The nations productivity issues - huge economy driver that would normally be front of government thinking, but not at the moment. And although the sky hasn’t fallen in, it would be unwise to be complacent on that front - inflation creeping up, ever increasing indebtedness and low growth isn’t the best position to be in leading up to a major change in circumstances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ Barry Hammond Posted 28 February 2018 Author Share Posted 28 February 2018 (edited) 5 hours ago, Webbo said: Well two of your points are the same. Wages are declining slightly against inflation but that's predicted to change this year so you'll soon have to thnk of something new to moan about. We had the fastest growth rate recently, we're just ahead of most of Europe in the economic cycle. It's all good. Errr....fastest in what? https://www.ft.com/content/e5402488-17b3-11e8-9376-4a6390addb44 Hope you didn’t mean this? https://www.theguardian.com/business/2018/feb/21/uk-unemployment-rises-at-fastest-rate-in-almost-five-years UK unemployment rises at fastest rate in almost five years Official figures reveal 1.47 million out of work as young people struggle to find jobs Edited 28 February 2018 by DJ Barry Hammond Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ Barry Hammond Posted 28 February 2018 Author Share Posted 28 February 2018 6 hours ago, MattP said: It's your opinion fair enough, but Boris speaks numerous languages and is educated to a very high standard, has worked in numerous high positions he clearly would have had to work for and could command absurd money for his writing. Corbyn speaks a bit of Spanish and left school with two E grades before walking into a union job then becoming a career politician. I get you hate Boris but to suggest Corbyn is brighter than him is laughable to be quite honest. It's not even serious. There’s different kinds of intellect - having knowledge is one thing, applying it is another and these things are all very subjective anyway. One could choose to point out one of these men has become leader of the party when no-one believed it possible; the other has so far failed to become leader yet, despite being a long time aspiration and being a front running candidate to do so. On that level, you could argue the case. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vardinio'sCat Posted 28 February 2018 Share Posted 28 February 2018 6 hours ago, MattP said: It's your opinion fair enough, but Boris speaks numerous languages and is educated to a very high standard, has worked in numerous high positions he clearly would have had to work for and could command absurd money for his writing. Corbyn speaks a bit of Spanish and left school with two E grades before walking into a union job then becoming a career politician. I get you hate Boris but to suggest Corbyn is brighter than him is laughable to be quite honest. It's not even serious. I don't really have an opinion on who is smarter (although suggesting either are intellectually challenged seems a bit contrary to the evidence of our eyes, both are successful politicians), but are you not confusing intelligence with education? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ Barry Hammond Posted 28 February 2018 Author Share Posted 28 February 2018 6 hours ago, MattP said: I'm not getting into a huge debate on as I'm off out but one question. Do you believe they are capable of accurately predicting data for 2030 without variables when they can't even get 2017 right in 2016 when they also know the variables? Economic forecasting now has become farcical, it's harder than ever and will only get harder as things like AI interfere with everyday life True, but when governments set 5 year budget cycles using forecasts - having wildly varying peramaters at time of huge pubic debt and a structural deficit can’t be good can it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ Barry Hammond Posted 28 February 2018 Author Share Posted 28 February 2018 5 hours ago, Rogstanley said: We haven't left yet and already wages have been seriously negatively affected. Unemployment is also on the rise. If you all ignore all the negative things that have happened then sure, nothing negative has happened. 6 hours ago, lifted*fox said: you keep trotting out this shite sentence but it doesn't mean anything because NOTHING HAS CHANGED YET. people have just had to ****ing crack on with life because nobody knows two ****ing years down the line what Brexit is even going to entail. just because the world has kept turning doesn't mean it isn't gonna fall to shit when it eventually happens. are you simply just choosing to ignore the data that leaked from the ****ing government that said NO version of Brexit is going to be positive for the economy initially? come on Webbo, really. This is where the staying in economic argument lacks clarity and consistency - nothing has changed / but then negatives highlighted as proof. Certainly Osborne’s dosier of doom was no help - it overstated to the point it didn’t feel credible - which was foolish as i’m sure there was research done that found even small level financial concequences (£10/£20) would be enough to sway a significant number of votes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Vardinio'sCat Posted 28 February 2018 Popular Post Share Posted 28 February 2018 (edited) 6 hours ago, Webbo said: Well two of your points are the same. Wages are declining slightly against inflation but that's predicted to change this year so you'll soon have to thnk of something new to moan about. We had the fastest growth rate recently, we're just ahead of most of Europe in the economic cycle. It's all good. We had the fastest growth rate before the referendum (in the G7), then we dropped like a stone. The world economy, and the EU economy (our biggest market) have been booming, and that has just about kept us afloat. But things are really starting to deteriorate now. I'm old enough to remember when we were the sick man of Europe, a country that had 'lost an empire, but not yet found a role'. I fear we are returning that way again, because it is a fundamental of economics that trade is a function of the size of economies and the distance between them. Leaving the world's biggest trading area, and the world's biggest free trade agreement for a hoped for boom in trade with distant lands seems bound to cost us dear, from where I am sitting. Edited 28 February 2018 by Vardinio'sCat Trying to match Gerbolds level of legibility! 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vardinio'sCat Posted 28 February 2018 Share Posted 28 February 2018 58 minutes ago, DJ Barry Hammond said: Errr....fastest in what? https://www.ft.com/content/e5402488-17b3-11e8-9376-4a6390addb44 Hope you didn’t mean this? https://www.theguardian.com/business/2018/feb/21/uk-unemployment-rises-at-fastest-rate-in-almost-five-years UK unemployment rises at fastest rate in almost five years Official figures reveal 1.47 million out of work as young people struggle to find jobs I think it was fastest in the G7 before the referendum, and I think that is what Webbo was referring to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vardinio'sCat Posted 28 February 2018 Share Posted 28 February 2018 26 minutes ago, DJ Barry Hammond said: This is where the staying in economic argument lacks clarity and consistency - nothing has changed / but then negatives highlighted as proof. Certainly Osborne’s dosier of doom was no help - it overstated to the point it didn’t feel credible - which was foolish as i’m sure there was research done that found even small level financial concequences (£10/£20) would be enough to sway a significant number of votes. It is worth remembering that Osborne's dodgy dossier was based on article 50 being triggered immediately by Camoron, a fact that never gets mentioned by anybody, even real hardcore remainers. One point about lacking clarity is that initially we hit a sweet spot of 'stlll in but devalued', helping exports and encouraging consumers to make purchases before the price rises on imports kicked in, and before reality started to bite. At that point remainers didn't have much to work with, hence the nothing has changed argument. Now that economic indicators have been on the slide, it is easier to make the argument that we are really starting to feel the pain, but not everyone is on the same page. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuchsntf Posted 28 February 2018 Share Posted 28 February 2018 5 hours ago, Rogstanley said: Wages were slightly rising (consequence of the Tories increasing spending in the run up to the 2015 GE). Then the vote, then the collapse in the pound, then they were falling again. Any reasonable observer would be in no doubt as to what the cause was. Who's wages!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzie the Fox Posted 28 February 2018 Share Posted 28 February 2018 Hmm I vote Torie, read the Daily Express and was up for Brexit., can i post in this thread? If so who are my enimies and allies ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webbo Posted 28 February 2018 Share Posted 28 February 2018 8 hours ago, Realist Guy In The Room said: For quite a lot of people, they have never lived outside it and whilst they’ve lived inside it, their lives have been pretty good. So I find it slightly unfair when remain voters get bashed for not wanting things to change. You're entitled to want to stay in the EU, I just wish people could accept my wish to leave. When it comes to getting bashed I think our side gets it worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webbo Posted 28 February 2018 Share Posted 28 February 2018 3 hours ago, Suzie the Fox said: Hmm I vote Torie, read the Daily Express and was up for Brexit., can i post in this thread? If so who are my enimies and allies ? For your own sanity I advise you to stay out. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webbo Posted 28 February 2018 Share Posted 28 February 2018 7 hours ago, DJ Barry Hammond said: Errr....fastest in what? https://www.ft.com/content/e5402488-17b3-11e8-9376-4a6390addb44 Hope you didn’t mean this? https://www.theguardian.com/business/2018/feb/21/uk-unemployment-rises-at-fastest-rate-in-almost-five-years UK unemployment rises at fastest rate in almost five years Official figures reveal 1.47 million out of work as young people struggle to find jobs Of course the recent slight rise is the fastest for 5 years, its been falling for 5 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Innovindil Posted 28 February 2018 Share Posted 28 February 2018 3 hours ago, Suzie the Fox said: Hmm I vote Torie, read the Daily Express and was up for Brexit., can i post in this thread? If so who are my enimies and allies ? Welcome to the dark side. Your enemies are the ones wielding blue or green lightsabers, your allies wield red. Though in seriousness, the remainers are generally the ones that constantly post guardian articles and/or constantly say the UK is dying. The leavers are generally the ones being called idiots and/or racists. Have fun! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Posted 28 February 2018 Share Posted 28 February 2018 22 minutes ago, Innovindil said: Welcome to the dark side. Your enemies are the ones wielding blue or green lightsabers, your allies wield red. Though in seriousness, the remainers are generally the ones that constantly post guardian articles and/or constantly say the UK is dying. The leavers are generally the ones being called idiots and/or racists. Have fun! The UK is dying you empirialist, racist idiot. https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/29/frenzy-hatred-brexit-racism-abuse-referendum-celebratory-lasting-damage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strokes Posted 28 February 2018 Share Posted 28 February 2018 3 minutes ago, Swan Lesta said: The UK is dying you empirialist, racist idiot. https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/29/frenzy-hatred-brexit-racism-abuse-referendum-celebratory-lasting-damage That’s unsubstantiated nazi propaganda nick. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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