Is Shakespeare the right man for the job?

[Babylon]

2 hours ago, Cardiff_Fox said:

We shut up shop from 60 minutes before the players even went off. I was disappointed at that because we controlled the opening ten minutes of the second half. 

 

Whether that was a managerial decision or a mental thing from the players, very hard to say. 

 

Shakespeare's 2nd sub should have gave us more 'attacking intent' 

 

It didn't because we had a set of players who just booted the ball away wasting possession. Again not a managerial thing (although could be used in twelve months time, if we continually ignore technicality)

Too many players not hugely comfortable on the ball I'm afraid. Put them under pressure and it shows even more.

 

Yes we lost, but really it's all guess work as to whether we'd have held on even if the changes weren't made. It's not like we'd not already conceded two goals and looked iffy at the back around Morgans part of the pitch.

 

If we had two more ball players to go with Fuch's and Maguire at the back, I could picture us being able to relieve pressure more than we can currently.

 

[ozvaldo]

Unless a video comes out of him farting on a member of Thailand's royal family, I think he'll be safe in his job this season.

If we played a Swansea or Watford, we'd have destroyed them on Friday night.  Arsenal is a tough place any time of the season.  

[WigstonWanderer]

On 12/08/2017 at 06:55, Captain... said:

The players were up for it from the start and nobody can say they didn't put a shift in. That is down to playing for Shakespeare.

 

He has to think about the subs he made, reminds me a lot of Pearson, left it too late and the subs negatively effected our game. I would have gone for Okazaki for Kelechi on 60 minutes.

 

Then Mahrez for Chilwell and Amartey for James or Vardy. Of course that wouldn't have guaranteed us seeing out the game, but it would have kept our shape, as soon as Amartey came on for Okazaki you could see the attitude change and it was just hang on desperately we stopped playing football. Learn from it and don't make the same mistake again.

Exactly this. Move Albrighton to the right and Chilwell on the left to provide better defensive cover on both sides while retaining an offensive threat and replacing Mahrez who was largely ineffective.

[Thracian]

It's clear that some people disagree with Shakespeare's appointment and intend to take every opportunity to justify that view. Indeed they seem to want him to fail to support their opinion rather than supporting the club first and foremost.

 

They are not alone. Others seem determined to pick on certain players to justify the inclusion of replacements instead of genuinely judging people on their merit whatever. When an intended "victim" does okay they say as little as possible about it but when he does badly they fire every weapon they can.

 

Shakespeare was fair and frank enough to admit he made mistakes but he could as easily have pointed to by far our best attacking performance at Arsenal in recent memory, three excellent goals and our being as close, time wise, to our first win at the Emirates in ages. Everyone I've spoken too was thrilled with the game which was in many ways a brilliant advert for Leicester City and for the game of football. 

 

I watched West Ham play Manchester United last night and they hardly had any shots, rarely carried any threat, lost 4-0 and it might have been 10-0. They were 100% outplayed. We scared Arsenal's manager what looked like close to tears and even earned his always grudging praise yet are calling our reforming team every which way.

 

It wasn't the substitutions, bad defending. an indefensible refereeing decision or any other single factor which cost us victory it was that our commendable three goals wasn't enough to beat ever-dangerous Arsenal's four goals any more than Ranieri beat them when they scored for fun at the King Power not so many months back and really did take our defence to pieces.

 

Was Ranieri a no-good manager? Or not the man for the job? Very few were saying it at the time so the hyprocrisy is shameful. We lost a winning position away from home against one of the most dangerous attacking teams in the country and we were all desperately disappointed because we could have had a dream start tgo the season and then what would have been written about our manager?

 

I'm not noted for being shy to criticise but saw a whole lot of good among the less good on Friday night. 

 

Along with the condemning of Shakespeare I've read fulsome praise for Maquire. Yet Maguire contributed to our losing at least one goal as as he did in helping us score. He wasn't perfect by a long way and neither were any of our central midfielders as indicated by the volley of shots Arsenal fired, many from runners coming from deep positions.

 

And while I'm exposing the failings of people who did put their head above the parapet consistently - and there were more I could have mentioned - what about the guy who didn't. Riyad Mahrez. He made a goal too - just like Maguire and there ere a couple of other momentary flashes of promise - but, even as something of a believer in and forgiver of the bloke because for his brilliance so many times and in so many places since he's been here - he really left his colleagues to shoulder the burdens of Fridays pressures and it's hard to fight Arsenal for 90 minutes with only 10 seemingly committed men.

 

But that's what it amounted too. Some like Shinji, Albrighton and James worked themselves to ineffectiveness but Mahrez so often didn't compete for the momentary chance of winning the ball let alone for 90 combative minutes.

 

And that's what we need to look at first at Leicester. Getttng 11 players on the field who are prepared to strive for the cause til they drop. Too many of those who've been the main focus of criticism at Arsenal have shown themselves to be those kind of guys -  and Shakespeare afterwards showed himself strong enough to stand with them and admit to his failings for all that no-one would doubt his commitment any less that Morgan's or Simpson's of Fuchs to name just three at random.

 

Lets give this team a chance to properly form itself and gel before we pull it to pieces. Because there are people there yet who aren't committed and don't belong.         

 

                

              

[WigstonWanderer]

This all begs the question as to why on earth he left Mahrez on when he was completely ineffective. Team under unrelenting pressure, and Mahrez is the last to help out under those circumstances.

[maddog]

I fear Wagner will become too revered for us now and wish we had got him in when Claudio was sacked.

 

This isn't me knee jerking because of one PL game, check my posts about my love for Wagner a year ago+, I wanted him long before he had Huddersfield anywhere near the playoffs.

 

This isn't meant as I told you so haha. Shakespeare is absolutely the right man for the job right now, but when Claudio was sacked I believe we missed a trick with Wagner. If we made him a serious offer he would have come. 

 

I don't know, Shakespeare won't be here long term. If he lasts 1.5 full seasons as permanent manger I'll eat my hat. So that's all of this season and until February 2019. 

 

I mean it, if Shakey is still permanent LCFC manager on 1st February 2019, I will eat my hat. And provide this forum with the evidence. 

Edited 14 August 2017 by maddog

[bpfox]

i thought for shakey to survive he really needed to sign 5-6 good players he got 3, and i dont think he will survive the season. u cant let in 4 goals and 3 were crap defending, if after the 1st 4 rounds we have say 1 point he will be under huge pressure which he will not survive.

[volpeazzurro]

1.His substitutions on Friday were poor and non-sensical, there's fairly general concensus re this both on here and with TV pundits at the time.

2. He persistently shows favouritism to a player in Marhez who is adamant he wants to leave. We needed  to plan for the future without him. Far more game time should have been given in pre-season to Gray, Lawrence or whoever to both give them valuable experience or evaluate whether they're going to be good enough. Marhez was with Morgan, the poorest player on the pitch on Friday, so why was he left on? That one bit of game turning magic? It wreaked of the management of hope, nostalgia and desperation.

3. Morgan. Love Wes to death but, either because he's been thrown in to soon after a long way off, or for whatever reason,  he's not at the races, an almost blind man against Borussia could see that he's currently a liability so his performance against Arsenal should have come as no surprise. Except to Shakey that is who continues to pick on sentiment and not the performances played out before his very eyes.

4. Some people have commented that when Armarty came on, the players looked unsure of their jobs, if so why is this? Is Shakespeare not capable of briefing them beforehand of possible variations,  or does he just make substitutions on a whim and hope that the players can guess his thoughts?

 

When we won the Premiership, Shakespeare, Walsh and Ranieri quite rightly took all the plaudits as a brilliant team. When it all started to go wrong, Ranieri it seems has become the main scapegoat and Walsh has gone too. If partly responsible for the success, Shakespeare by definition was also partly responsible for the demise. He was also partly responsible with Pearson for the rediculous cautious tactics the first year we were nearly relegated. Our form and his tactics also started to fall apart towards the end of last season culminating in that debacle against Spurs.

Will we get relegated?  No. Why? Because there are far poorer teams with poorer players than us in there. We have three exciting new signings, but is this man capable of having the vision and single minded unblinded by sentiment drive to push us forward and getting the best out of them and others, I doubt it, Shakespeare's world I fear is groundhog day, trying to cling onto the same old players used in the same old way and formation hoping for the same past glories.

Edited 15 August 2017 by volpeazzurro

[WigstonWanderer]

9 hours ago, maddog said:

I fear Wagner will become too revered for us now and wish we had got him in when Claudio was sacked.

 

This isn't me knee jerking because of one PL game, check my posts about my love for Wagner a year ago+, I wanted him long before he had Huddersfield anywhere near the playoffs.

 

This isn't meant as I told you so haha. Shakespeare is absolutely the right man for the job right now, but when Claudio was sacked I believe we missed a trick with Wagner. If we made him a serious offer he would have come. 

 

I don't know, Shakespeare won't be here long term. If he lasts 1.5 full seasons as permanent manger I'll eat my hat. So that's all of this season and until February 2019. 

 

I mean it, if Shakey is still permanent LCFC manager on 1st February 2019, I will eat my hat. And provide this forum with the evidence. 

You got a hat then Dave?

[maddog]

4 minutes ago, WigstonWanderer said:

You got a hat then Dave?

Yes

[brucey]

4 hours ago, volpeazzurro said:

1.His substitutions on Friday were poor and non-sensical, there's fairly general concensus re this both on here and with TV pundits at the time.

2. He persistently shows favouritism to a player in Marhez who is adamant he wants to leave. We needed  to plan for the future without him. Far more game time should have been given in pre-season to Gray, Lawrence or whoever to both give them valuable experience or evaluate whether they're going to be good enough. Marhez was with Morgan, the poorest player on the pitch on Friday, so why was he left on? That one bit of game turning magic? It wreaked of the management of hope, nostalgia and desperation.

3. Morgan. Love Wes to death but, either because he's been thrown in to soon after a long way off, or for whatever reason,  he's not at the races, an almost blind man against Borussia could see that he's currently a liability so his performance against Arsenal should have come as no surprise. Except to Shakey that is who continues to pick on sentiment and not the performances played out before his very eyes.

4. Some people have commented that when Armarty came on, the players looked unsure of their jobs, if so why is this? Is Shakespeare not capable of briefing them beforehand of possible variations,  or does he just make substitutions on a whim and hope that the players can guess his thoughts?

1. There was only negative consensus about his second sub (the Kelechi one), many of us didn't have a problem with the Amartey sub.

 

2. Riyad wants to leave but it's looking increasingly likely that he won't. If he stays, Riyad will play far more than Gray because even an off form Riyad is better. Plus Gray had Euro duty till late so isn't as short of match fitness. Lawrence has been sold so any more game time would have been wasted.

 

3. Who would you have preferred to partner Maguire in the Borussia and Arsenal games then? Huth with a busted ankle, Benny who scythes down everyone in sight, an out of position Fuchs, an inexperienced Amartey, or Elliott Moore?

 

4. They looked fine when Amartey came on, and should do as the Amartey defensive sub in CM was used a lot at the end of last season. But I did see a confused arm go up when Kelechi came on. There was an interview prior to the game where the players said they had game plans prepared for every possible scenario, so they're not just sitting around doing nothing for a week and then getting dumped on the field 'on a whim'. 

[Guest]

Sack him lets get Big Sam in

[Izzy]

When we batter Brighton on Saturday then Shakey will no doubt be flavour of the month again.

 

I like the idea of him being the right man for the job long term. He's passionate, keen, knows the club inside out and is ambitious to succeed.

 

He'll make a few mistakes like anyone would, but I hope we stick with him even if we have an iffy start to the season.

 

I don't want to be one of these clubs who chops and changes its Manager every five minutes. And who do people think we'd realistically attract instead?

 

In Shakey we trust. It's great we've got an English manager at the helm and I hope he'll do a good job for us in cementing our long term PL status.

[volpeazzurro]

1 hour ago, brucey said:

1. There was only negative consensus about his second sub (the Kelechi one), many of us didn't have a problem with the Amartey sub.

 

2. Riyad wants to leave but it's looking increasingly likely that he won't. If he stays, Riyad will play far more than Gray because even an off form Riyad is better. Plus Gray had Euro duty till late so isn't as short of match fitness. Lawrence has been sold so any more game time would have been wasted.

 

3. Who would you have preferred to partner Maguire in the Borussia and Arsenal games then? Huth with a busted ankle, Benny who scythes down everyone in sight, an out of position Fuchs, an inexperienced Amartey, or Elliott Moore?

 

4. They looked fine when Amartey came on, and should do as the Amartey defensive sub in CM was used a lot at the end of last season. But I did see a confused arm go up when Kelechi came on. There was an interview prior to the game where the players said they had game plans prepared for every possible scenario, so they're not just sitting around doing nothing for a week and then getting dumped on the field 'on a whim'. 

1&4 Agreed. I had no problem with Armarty coming on for the tiring Okazaki, in fact he made two or three decisive tackles not long after coming on. As you mention, it was the second one. James may have been tired but was still offering more than a lack lustre Marhez. Could have perhaps considered King as well but either way Marhez needed to go.Gray for Albrighton,  too little too late,  panic stations. 

2. We'll never know about players like Gray or Lawrence when he was here but they can't improve without game time. Probably why Lawrence has left and certainly why Gray is discontented. Do you honestly think Marhez's contribution last season makes him worthy of a start just 'in the hope' he comes back to life and turns it on, he had all last season to do that and didn't!  If your form goes then you at least keep trying. He didn't,  he turned in late for training, idled about on the pitch and claimed his wages by false pretences. Any decent manager would have dropped him for a couple of games, meanwhile we disillusion a keen young player and show him that such behaviour is acceptable if your face fits.

3.Yes actually, I would have preferred Benalouane or Armarty. The former shows much better movement on the ball and all round play than Morgan at the moment (I do think Morgan will come back and i don't think Benny is a long term solution).  Despite the stupid tackle recently and although prone to the odd mistake, I thought he did ok when called upon last year for the majority of the games in which he played, certainly better than Morgan the last two games who continually gives the ball away and is panicky and cumbersome. Even with little club experience I'd have preferred Armarty there but we don't really know do we because despite playing for his country there, he's not been given a chance pre-season, and training isn't the same as a match. Poor at right back and very mediocre and uncomfortable on the ball in midfield, it had to be worth a try or why keep him?

 

[Thracian]

7 hours ago, volpeazzurro said:

1.His substitutions on Friday were poor and non-sensical, there's fairly general concensus re this both on here and with TV pundits at the time.

2. He persistently shows favouritism to a player in Marhez who is adamant he wants to leave. We needed  to plan for the future without him. Far more game time should have been given in pre-season to Gray, Lawrence or whoever to both give them valuable experience or evaluate whether they're going to be good enough. Marhez was with Morgan, the poorest player on the pitch on Friday, so why was he left on? That one bit of game turning magic? It wreaked of the management of hope, nostalgia and desperation.

3. Morgan. Love Wes to death but, either because he's been thrown in to soon after a long way off, or for whatever reason,  he's not at the races, an almost blind man against Borussia could see that he's currently a liability so his performance against Arsenal should have come as no surprise. Except to Shakey that is who continues to pick on sentiment and not the performances played out before his very eyes.

4. Some people have commented that when Armarty came on, the players looked unsure of their jobs, if so why is this? Is Shakespeare not capable of briefing them beforehand of possible variations,  or does he just make substitutions on a whim and hope that the players can guess his thoughts?

 

When we won the Premiership, Shakespeare, Walsh and Ranieri quite rightly took all the plaudits as a brilliant team. When it all started to go wrong, Ranieri it seems has become the main scapegoat and Walsh has gone too. If partly responsible for the success, Shakespeare by definition was also partly responsible for the demise. He was also partly responsible with Pearson for the rediculous cautious tactics the first year we were nearly relegated. Our form and his tactics also started to fall apart towards the end of last season culminating in that debacle against Spurs.

Will we get relegated?  No. Why? Because there are far poorer teams with poorer players than us in there. We have three exciting new signings, but is this man capable of having the vision and single minded unblinded by sentiment drive to push us forward and getting the best out of them and others, I doubt it, Shakespeare's world I fear is groundhog day, trying to cling onto the same old players used in the same old way and formation hoping for the same past glories.

I was  all interested til you mentioned more game time for gray who also doesn'the altogether convince me he wants to be here. Gray has been a near constant disappointment and no less in his efforts up to and including his cameo at arsenal. I see no evidence of his being our answer to anything.

Edited 15 August 2017 by Thracian

[cc_star]

People questioning his future already is bizarre at best but also perverse

[Thracian]

13 hours ago, bpfox said:

i thought for shakey to survive he really needed to sign 5-6 good players he got 3, and i dont think he will survive the season. u cant let in 4 goals and 3 were crap defending, if after the 1st 4 rounds we have say 1 point he will be under huge pressure which he will not survive.

He already seems to have far more enemies than I ever imagined.

[Wymsey]

Yes.

He's got a lot of respect, internally. 

He knows what's what and feel he has the coaching knowledge in develop onto a strong, successful manager.

[Babylon]

3 minutes ago, cc_star said:

People questioning his future already is bizarre at best but also perverse

The knives were out from day one because he's linked to Pearson. There has been at least a dozen people blame him personally for DD and Mahrez fancying a crack at moving to bigger clubs. It's laughable.

 

 

[Babylon]

It's almost like we didn't let in 5 with Kante in midfield and then go on to win the league. One game, means nothing.

[cc_star]

1 hour ago, volpeazzurro said:

1&4 Agreed. I had no problem with Armarty coming on for the tiring Okazaki, in fact he made two or three decisive tackles not long after coming on. As you mention, it was the second one. James may have been tired but was still offering more than a lack lustre Marhez. Could have perhaps considered King as well but either way Marhez needed to go.Gray for Albrighton,  too little too late,  panic stations. 

2. We'll never know about players like Gray or Lawrence when he was here but they can't improve without game time. Probably why Lawrence has left and certainly why Gray is discontented. Do you honestly think Marhez's contribution last season makes him worthy of a start just 'in the hope' he comes back to life and turns it on, he had all last season to do that and didn't!  If your form goes then you at least keep trying. He didn't,  he turned in late for training, idled about on the pitch and claimed his wages by false pretences. Any decent manager would have dropped him for a couple of games, meanwhile we disillusion a keen young player and show him that such behaviour is acceptable if your face fits.

3.Yes actually, I would have preferred Benalouane or Armarty. The former shows much better movement on the ball and all round play than Morgan at the moment (I do think Morgan will come back and i don't think Benny is a long term solution).  Despite the stupid tackle recently and although prone to the odd mistake, I thought he did ok when called upon last year for the majority of the games in which he played, certainly better than Morgan the last two games who continually gives the ball away and is panicky and cumbersome. Even with little club experience I'd have preferred Armarty there but we don't really know do we because despite playing for his country there, he's not been given a chance pre-season, and training isn't the same as a match. Poor at right back and very mediocre and uncomfortable on the ball in midfield, it had to be worth a try or why keep him?

 

James was dead on his feet, personally I'd have brought a midfielder on, like King for him

 

However Vardy was completely isolated after Okazaki came off because of the Arsenal pressure & us dropping to 451 so the idea was to help provide an extra outlet and stretch the game more by going back to 4411 - IMO, Slimani or even Ulloa would've been a better sub

 

And as for Mahrez, he wasn't at his best, but he still takes two opposition players to mark him which gives others more room, he had assisted our 3rd, was still very useful on the ball and our only player who's not isolated up the pitch who can create something out of nothing

 

Any mention of Gray, who's got a very long way to go if he wants to be as good as Lloyd Dyer is just farcial, he's played a hell of a lot for us & bar a goal against Utd has done next to nothing

 

And as for preferring Benny... hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah

[Thracian]

1 hour ago, volpeazzurro said:

1&4 Agreed. I had no problem with Armarty coming on for the tiring Okazaki, in fact he made two or three decisive tackles not long after coming on. As you mention, it was the second one. James may have been tired but was still offering more than a lack lustre Marhez. Could have perhaps considered King as well but either way Marhez needed to go.Gray for Albrighton,  too little too late,  panic stations. 

2. We'll never know about players like Gray or Lawrence when he was here but they can't improve without game time. Probably why Lawrence has left and certainly why Gray is discontented. Do you honestly think Marhez's contribution last season makes him worthy of a start just 'in the hope' he comes back to life and turns it on, he had all last season to do that and didn't!  If your form goes then you at least keep trying. He didn't,  he turned in late for training, idled about on the pitch and claimed his wages by false pretences. Any decent manager would have dropped him for a couple of games, meanwhile we disillusion a keen young player and show him that such behaviour is acceptable if your face fits.

3.Yes actually, I would have preferred Benalouane or Armarty. The former shows much better movement on the ball and all round play than Morgan at the moment (I do think Morgan will come back and i don't think Benny is a long term solution).  Despite the stupid tackle recently and although prone to the odd mistake, I thought he did ok when called upon last year for the majority of the games in which he played, certainly better than Morgan the last two games who continually gives the ball away and is panicky and cumbersome. Even with little club experience I'd have preferred Armarty there but we don't really know do we because despite playing for his country there, he's not been given a chance pre-season, and training isn't the same as a match. Poor at right back and very mediocre and uncomfortable on the ball in midfield, it had to be worth a try or why keep him?now hv

 

It's not amartey's tackling that's the problem it's his failure to see and track runners. Tackling-wise he seemed a bit tighter against arsenal than he's been in the past and certainly showed   determination to win the ball. 

Edited 15 August 2017 by Thracian

[volpeazzurro]

1 hour ago, Thracian said:

I was  all interested til you mentioned more game time for gray who also doesn'the altogether convince me he wants to be here. Gray has been a near constant disappointment and no less in his efforts up to and including his cameo at arsenal. I see no evidence of his being our answer to anything.

I think that's partly my point though. If Marhez had a whole season and performed the way he did, then I'd sooner of had Gray get a run in the side. I agree he hasn't set the world alight to date but there's definitely talent there, but you can't really expect him to shine with the odd ten minutes or so here and there. Some of his cameos have resulted in him perhaps trying to do too much and failing but I see at least part of that being the pressure of being a very young man, knowing you've only got a few minutes to try and show something . Marhez has bundles of experience and still tried to do too much. Why should he want to be here when he can't get a game when the bloke who's supposed to be better than him doesn't make the effort and is a total disgrace and voices the fact he doesn't want to be here. Yet he still plays,  what sort of great managerial message can you glean from that? Would it make you feel wanted or part of any plans? He's at an age where he needs games to develop and if he were my son I'd be advising him accordingly.  You don't mind playing second fiddle to an individual who through form can't be removed, but in this case it's purely nepotism.

[volpeazzurro]

1 hour ago, Thracian said:

It's not amartey's tackling that's the problem it's his failure to see and track runners. Tackling-wise he seemed a bit tighter against arsenal than he's been in the past and certainly showed   determination to win the ball. 

Agree with that. What do you think about him as a centre half? He seemed to be highly acclaimed at AFCON though I recognise that that's not the stiffest test in the world.  Perhaps would have been worth at least the best part of a preseason game though to evaluate him? He'd also played there at Copenhagen. I don't think he's rb material and when fit,  half a team in front of him in midfield. 

[Col city fan]

1 hour ago, Thracian said:

It's not amartey's tackling that's the problem it's his failure to see and track runners. Tackling-wise he seemed a bit tighter against arsenal than he's been in the past and certainly showed   determination to win the ball. 

That's exactly what his problem is. He ain't brilliant at tackling for a big lad, but his real Achilles heel is he just doesn't instinctively know where to be when playing DM. It's a major problem and puts the rest of the team under a lot of pressure.