Is our problem just a tired formation?

[Benguin]

I know we're not a possession team but do we pit to much faith in 442? Has our league win convinced us that it can't ever be changed? 

[JamesfromlondonLCFC]

not our only problem, but certainly a big one. 

[Collibosher70]

Yes....and the sooner we switch to 3 5 2 the better....but we won't cos cs is clueless

[Dan]

I don't think it's JUST the formation. It's the whole attitude in our play. No-one wants the ball.

 

Bournemouth played 4-4-2 as well and they actually played some good football.

[WigstonWanderer]

6 minutes ago, Dan LCFC said:

I don't think it's JUST the formation. It's the whole attitude in our play. No-one wants the ball.

 

Bournemouth played 4-4-2 as well and they actually played some good football.

This.

 

Why aren't our players making themselves available off the ball? That's what makes it look like they have more players. When we have the ball there's no one to pass to, so we get the inevitable hoof.

 

Also, people keep saying Shakey is a great coach, but isn't this the sort of thing he should be coaching? I just don't get it.

 

 

[EnglishOxide]

Bournemouth and Burnley are playing far better than us in a 442 and it's due to the midfield and full back areas.

 

Our midfielders cannot carry the ball like theirs, and our full backs can't get up and down the pitch like theirs.

[Dan]

1 hour ago, WigstonWanderer said:

This.

 

Why aren't our players making themselves available off the ball? That's what makes it look like they have more players. When we have the ball there's no one to pass to, so we get the inevitable hoof.

 

Also, people keep saying Shakey is a great coach, but isn't this the sort of thing he should be coaching? I just don't get it.

 

 

Yesterday was the worst case for it yet. The centre halves got the ball and you had Albrighton, Simpson, Ndidi, Gray, King, literally all of them just jogging along in a straight line. It's beyond belief how little imagination there is in our play.

 

That moment where Iborra threw his hands up in the air speaks volumes to me. There's someone used to playing in a side who know how to hold onto the ball.

 

I've been a huge basher of these who go on "we deserved to win because we had more of the ball" but we don't have 39% possession against Bournemouth because we're clever and organised, we have it because we're completely shite and totally devoid of any ideas bar hoof to Vardy or give it to Mahrez. It's utterly dreadful football. We played better football in ****ing League One.

[Guest Col city fan]

6 hours ago, Dan LCFC said:

I don't think it's JUST the formation. It's the whole attitude in our play. No-one wants the ball.

 

Bournemouth played 4-4-2 as well and they actually played some good football.

Correct.

No-one wants the ball.

There are no ball-playing leaders on the pitch.

[StriderHiryu]

It's part of the problem, but as others have said, it's the actual strategy as well. We deliberately try to knock it up to Vardy as fast as possible to hit opponents on the break, but the problem is that everyone in the league knows we are going to do it and prepare accordingly. The players were awful on Saturday but they did also play the way they were told to - IE pump it long to Vardy at every opportunity.

 

Even with a 442 we could take a more measured approach and try and play more short passes and work our way up the pitch. However, given the type of players we have, this would be a lot harder to do without 5 in the middle of the park. 

 

If Silva does come in January I for one am excited about the prospect of Silva, Iborra and Ndidi in the middle of the park. Add 2 of Mahrez / Gray / Albrighton on the wings with Harry Maguire at the back and I believe we have more than enough technical players to play something other than hoofball. Ihenacho looks like someone that wants to stroke it around. Okazaki, Vardy and Fuchs in the current 11 are better technical footballers than we give them credit for. 

 

I don't ever expect us to become a Barcelona / Arsenal / Man City style possession based team. But we could easily become a team that is capable of stringing some good stuff together and that can still hit opponents on the break in deadly fashion. Without Kante we can't play 442! Ndidi was leading the interceptions and tackles charts until this round of fixtures in the league, but he's not got the dynamic game that Kante has, who could sniff the trouble brewing, break it up and get us on our way before the opposition had a chance to build. He was and is unique and IMO will go down as one of the best defensive mids to have ever played the game when he's done. Ndidi is not as good this year as he was last year (which I put down to not having Drinkwater alongside him), but he's still a good player. He's just not capable of the energy levels of Kante.

[FLAN]

There is nobody setting the tempo in the middle like Kante did and less so Drinkwater. King is the least likely player to do that yet he’s the senior midfield player currently in use. If someone sets the tempo there the rest will respond to some extent. But I think we need to reshape including the person picking the same old system every week 

[murphy]

30 minutes ago, StriderHiryu said:

It's part of the problem, but as others have said, it's the actual strategy as well. We deliberately try to knock it up to Vardy as fast as possible to hit opponents on the break, but the problem is that everyone in the league knows we are going to do it and prepare accordingly. The players were awful on Saturday but they did also play the way they were told to - IE pump it long to Vardy at every opportunity.

 

Even with a 442 we could take a more measured approach and try and play more short passes and work our way up the pitch. However, given the type of players we have, this would be a lot harder to do without 5 in the middle of the park. 

 

If Silva does come in January I for one am excited about the prospect of Silva, Iborra and Ndidi in the middle of the park. Add 2 of Mahrez / Gray / Albrighton on the wings with Harry Maguire at the back and I believe we have more than enough technical players to play something other than hoofball. Ihenacho looks like someone that wants to stroke it around. Okazaki, Vardy and Fuchs in the current 11 are better technical footballers than we give them credit for. 

 

I don't ever expect us to become a Barcelona / Arsenal / Man City style possession based team. But we could easily become a team that is capable of stringing some good stuff together and that can still hit opponents on the break in deadly fashion. Without Kante we can't play 442! Ndidi was leading the interceptions and tackles charts until this round of fixtures in the league, but he's not got the dynamic game that Kante has, who could sniff the trouble brewing, break it up and get us on our way before the opposition had a chance to build. He was and is unique and IMO will go down as one of the best defensive mids to have ever played the game when he's done. Ndidi is not as good this year as he was last year (which I put down to not having Drinkwater alongside him), but he's still a good player. He's just not capable of the energy levels of Kante.

How do all the other teams that don't have Kante manage to do it?

[filbertway]

Yeah, we need a fresh mentality brought in. I was thinking maybe it's down to being outnumbered in the middle (which I still believe would be a reason if we tried to play football).

 

As Dan says though, there's just no desire to make space and demand a pass. Ndidi did it last year and it was a breath of fresh air. It's now been coached out of him and he's basically just a grunty in the middle trying to get in the way. We may as well have GTF back in the middle on 5k a week if that's all we plan to use our players for.

[somebum]

It's the entire philosophy of our play; we don't have one. Ranieri understood the need for change but was unable to implement it. Shakes appointment saw a return of a more pressing counter attacking game which would play to our strengths but with the arrival of this Appleton character we have become soul less without identity. 

 

I dont think a change change in formation would work tbh. Our problems lay at the very core.

[Lovejoy]

It isn't the 4-4-2 as has been clearly proved with Burnley, Atletico Madrid etc. This is down to instructions and players. Simpson has for so long been great for us and in my opinion over the last two seasons, arguably our best defender, but for me he doesn't look as strong and this handball thing is a bit odd, the guy could easily concede a penalty a game. If he could offer more up the flank it would help Mahrez out no end as well. Couple that with Albrighton sinking back into his awful habit of trying to play full back means we are really lacking in wide areas which are crucial to the 4-4-2 working. The central midfield problem doesn't need me to commentate on, the whole forum is aware that the lack of movement and creativity is killing us. I also personally wonder if the players are not fit. They don't seem capable of playing at any form of intensity at all.

[Gerard]

I'm not throwing Albrighton and Simpson to the wolves as they certainly have their assets but we'll never dominate a PL game with possession with those two in the side. 

 

Vardy in the team doesn't help because we're always trying to get the ball to him as early as possible (not that I would drop him though as he's our best player).

 

Mahrez has been by and large terrible since we won the league but you also have to have some sympathy for him. We expect him to do something from our own 18 yard line. Mahrez needs to be relieved of too much defensive duties and live or die by what he does in the last third of the pitch. When we have sub 40% possession in a lot of games you can see why he's failing.

 

I think our best formation could be 4-1-4-1 with Iborra holding and Ndidi and Silva ahead of him and Gray and Mahrez given more of an attacking licence with the security of a five man midfield. I feel we've set our stall out now by having to play 4-4-2 as we have five forwards at the club.

[dpjfox]

Once we get Silva we will have the right personel for a 3 man central midfield with all familiar with the system. Surely that was the long term aim when we bought Iborra and Silva We have the central defenders should we go for 3 so imo we need to sort out the best frontline

[Buzzell]

[Wdywd]

I don't understand what we do in training. Do we just not do passing?

 

When Sousa came here (and if you'll all just ignore the actual, yknow, results for a second) he very quickly had us playing decent (passing) football. Like, we had essentially rubbish players but when you actually make an effort you can get people to knock it about well. There's loads of teams in the PL who are able to do it and who probably have worse squads than we do.

 

None of us expect some amazing passing style but you have to be able to keep the ball a bit. You need to get it to your creative players and get people up in support, it can't just be hoof it up and hope Vardy wins a throw in. You also have to take some pressure off the defence by keeping the ball, otherwise it just gets relentless and eventually you're going to concede.

 

It's clearly not the only problem but it's just so extraordinarily bad I don't understand how it got to this point. Watching that Man City Chelsea game Saturday was like a different sport

[TAFKA Castroneves]

I'm a 3-5-2 fanclub member - so i'd be really game to see that as it gives us that extra man in midfield now we've lost 2-man Kante.

 

Long-term though i'd like to see us go 4-2-3-1 with the wing backs adding the width and the three behind the striker being more central attacking mids, Fuchs automatically would be better as he's much better when he's pressing forward rather than having to actually just focus on defending - Maguire and another more mobile centre back. Of course the issue with this formation is that it's quite attacking with the wing backs providing the width (leaving just two at the back and a holding mid when going forward) - but we've always been a better side when playing with higher intensity, more pressing up the top - so i think it would be worth the risk. We could always then look to kill games then drop an AM option for another centre half after 60 mins and counter the rest of the game to offset the energy early doors. We've got players like Okazaki, Iborra, Silva (hopefully), Mahrez, Gray who would be ideal for those attacking mid positions, even Ndidi would probably be better served being higher up the pitch as he's got a hell of a peg on him - mixed with strength and pace - right now he's a bit lost being so far back and its showing his flaws rather than showing his best.

 

We've not got a bad team at all so it's probably time to have a look at the formations.

[AyewJoking]

Sorry if I'm being stupid (again) but did CS reinstate the sports science set up and psychologist when he was confirmed manager?

[ultrafox]

Its nothing to do with our formation. It's all to do with getting the basics right.

Our passing and possession stats are the worse in the Premier League. 

http://www.squawka.com/football-team-rankings#possession-&-passing#team-stats#english-premier-league|season-2017/2018#0#90#any#any#season#1#all-matches#total#desc#total

Not that that should come as a surprise to anyone watching us at the moment. What really gets to me is that it almost seems like this is our gameplan. To let the opposition keep the ball and give it back to them when they dont have it.

Fans like to see their team in possession.. all the successful clubs make a point of winning the ball back asap when not in possession . Not us!

We seem content to allow the opposition space and possession without a worry.

This has to stop!

 

 

[StriderHiryu]

2 hours ago, murphy said:

How do all the other teams that don't have Kante manage to do it?

They don't do it as well as we did it during out title winning year.

 

 

[Babylon]

If we actually pressed the opposition and got close to them, whilst trying to support players with the ball so they have an easy pass, 4-4-2 would be fine.

 

I couldn't believe how much we stood off them Saturday. It's exactly what happened under Ranieri, the only time we've not done that was when the little darlings on the pitch had their egos hurt and they went out with something to prove. Which leads me onto a problem we still have. Too many of this lot have nothing to prove or probably hope for a move away.

[Raw Dykes]

11 hours ago, Worthington said:

The formation, with our current squad, certainly isn't working, but the problems seem FAR deeper than that!

2 seasons ago, we were playing with an energy that few other teams could match.

Week in, week out, commentators were saying that 'Leicester can't keep up this tempo for 90 minutes', but we did !

It led to ridiculous assumptions of 'doping' on rival forums....They just couldn't believe how sharp and tireless our players were!

That's gone now...not a clue why, but our team now looks short of stamina and motivation...we're 2nd to every ball, whereas, in the PL winning season we were snapping at ankles and winning virtually every loose ball!

Something is awfully 'off kilter' amongst the players at the moment. The self belief of 18 months back seems to have disappeared totally, replaced by self doubt and a general lack of both confidence and basic ability!

I can't believe that losing Kante, (or a combination of him and DD), could be the sole reason(s) that we've gone into retrograde mode so quickly....Something, possibly outside of our knowledge, has gone seriously wrong !

Excellent post. I think the main reason we're so poor is the lack of energy and urgency in our play. That and the fact we lose possession so easily all the time. Our passing accuracy is awful and no-one seems to be trying to make themselves available to pass to.

 

I don't think the formation would matter that much if we could fix this.

[Fox92]

We've got loads of problems....

 

Defensive-first manager who sets up not to lose rather than go out and win.

 

The inability to do simple things. We lack movement, energy, creativity.

 

Lack of players that are prepared to do something. Maguire brings the ball out and both Mahrez and Gray will get the ball down, run, shoot and generally try to do something but other than that the midfield are so content on going backwards and sideways constantly.

 

Players seem scared to have the ball. Simpson lacks compure and Albrighton constantly just knocks the ball anywhere in hope a Leicester player gets it.