Is our problem just a tired formation?

[Spicer]

My theory is that since winning the premiership the players who did that have peaked in their achievements, nothing will top that (apart from the champions league which they had a good go at).

 

With the lack of motivation means they won't train as hard, so will be slower, less agile and not as fit. There's not the same hunger to win that we saw previously.

 

I reckon Drinkwater left as he lost motivation and needed a fresh challenge to reignite the fire. The question is how do you get the players motivated again, it happened last season when Raneri was sacked as relegation was a real possibility and their reputations were on the line. Lets hope that isn't required this season.

[Babylon]

19 minutes ago, Raw Dykes said:

Excellent post. I think the main reason we're so poor is the lack of energy and urgency in our play. That and the fact we lose possession so easily all the time. Our passing accuracy is awful and no-one seems to be trying to make themselves available to pass to.

 

I don't think the formation would matter that much if we could fix this.

We're getting worse and that's often down to confidence, people hiding, people not wanting the ball, people being cautious. It compounds a style that doesn't work unless everyone is at 100 mph.

[SuperMike]

2 hours ago, Wdywd said:

I don't understand what we do in training. Do we just not do passing?

 

When Sousa came here (and if you'll all just ignore the actual, yknow, results for a second) he very quickly had us playing decent (passing) football. Like, we had essentially rubbish players but when you actually make an effort you can get people to knock it about well. There's loads of teams in the PL who are able to do it and who probably have worse squads than we do.

 

None of us expect some amazing passing style but you have to be able to keep the ball a bit. You need to get it to your creative players and get people up in support, it can't just be hoof it up and hope Vardy wins a throw in. You also have to take some pressure off the defence by keeping the ball, otherwise it just gets relentless and eventually you're going to concede.

 

It's clearly not the only problem but it's just so extraordinarily bad I don't understand how it got to this point. Watching that Man City Chelsea game Saturday was like a different sport

Sousa?!

WORST EVER!

~  < shudder

[SuperMike]

Paulo Sousa and Frank de Boer both suffered from the same medical affliction. The words in his contract of employment said 'Crystal Palace' but he thought the letters spelt out 'Barcelona'.

Much the same with Sousa who got seriously confused between 'Leicester' and 'Real Madrid'. The resultant records were appalling and mebee point to the old saying 'you can't make a silk purse out of a pigs ear' (unless you have a plan ,  half a billion pounds in your transfer kitty, and four seasons to turn it around).

Yes - the passing game is the beautiful game : but be careful what you wish for - I seem to remember that Sousa took us to just one victory in nine championship games and we even lost 6-1 to Portsmouth (who were dire at the time!).

I'd even venture to suggest that these trendy-wendy 3-5-1-1 or 3-4-1-2 or whatever formations would not suit LCFC at the moment. Man management, motivation and bottle are wots needed- with that our current squad are as good as any (well, any outside of the big six!).

[StriderHiryu]

3 hours ago, Spicer said:

My theory is that since winning the premiership the players who did that have peaked in their achievements, nothing will top that (apart from the champions league which they had a good go at).

 

With the lack of motivation means they won't train as hard, so will be slower, less agile and not as fit. There's not the same hunger to win that we saw previously.

 

I reckon Drinkwater left as he lost motivation and needed a fresh challenge to reignite the fire. The question is how do you get the players motivated again, it happened last season when Raneri was sacked as relegation was a real possibility and their reputations were on the line. Lets hope that isn't required this season.

Definitely agree with this. I just don't think you can underestimate the mental fortitude and effort the team made for the title. It may actually be in the long-run better for those heroes to move on again and for the club to build up a newer team, as counter-productive as it may sound.

 

46 minutes ago, SuperMike said:

Paulo Sousa and Frank de Boer both suffered from the same medical affliction. The words in his contract of employment said 'Crystal Palace' but he thought the letters spelt out 'Barcelona'.

Much the same with Sousa who got seriously confused between 'Leicester' and 'Real Madrid'. The resultant records were appalling and mebee point to the old saying 'you can't make a silk purse out of a pigs ear' (unless you have a plan ,  half a billion pounds in your transfer kitty, and four seasons to turn it around).

Yes - the passing game is the beautiful game : but be careful what you wish for - I seem to remember that Sousa took us to just one victory in nine championship games and we even lost 6-1 to Portsmouth (who were dire at the time!).

I'd even venture to suggest that these trendy-wendy 3-5-1-1 or 3-4-1-2 or whatever formations would not suit LCFC at the moment. Man management, motivation and bottle are wots needed- with that our current squad are as good as any (well, any outside of the big six!).

A very fair point. Ranieri tried several different formations and tactics last year and lost the dressing room as a result. We may play worse with a new setup rather than better. But I'd argue that given we've signed a number of players that can conceivably play in the first team (Nacho, Iborra, Maguire, Dragovic, Silva if he ever gets here) that we'd have a better chance now.

 

I've also thought that Atletico Madrid is the best example of what our team could be like. They still play 442 for the most part but have done very well in general. That said in their recent match they tried 3-2-3-1 (!) and still have a 0-0 result to follow-up their defeat to Chelsea midweek and slow start to the season:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-4936774/Leganes-0-0-Atletico-Madrid-Tactical-tinkering-fails.html

 

 

[Fox92]

51 minutes ago, SuperMike said:

Paulo Sousa and Frank de Boer both suffered from the same medical affliction. The words in his contract of employment said 'Crystal Palace' but he thought the letters spelt out 'Barcelona'.

Much the same with Sousa who got seriously confused between 'Leicester' and 'Real Madrid'. The resultant records were appalling and mebee point to the old saying 'you can't make a silk purse out of a pigs ear' (unless you have a plan ,  half a billion pounds in your transfer kitty, and four seasons to turn it around).

Yes - the passing game is the beautiful game : but be careful what you wish for - I seem to remember that Sousa took us to just one victory in nine championship games and we even lost 6-1 to Portsmouth (who were dire at the time!).

I'd even venture to suggest that these trendy-wendy 3-5-1-1 or 3-4-1-2 or whatever formations would not suit LCFC at the moment. Man management, motivation and bottle are wots needed- with that our current squad are as good as any (well, any outside of the big six!).

Apart from the fact when Sousa was here we had the likes of Hobbs, Morrison and Dyer. Nowadays we have the likes of Iborra, Maguire and Mahrez.

 

Playing football is not difficult. We have the right players to do it.

 

As the great Bill Shankly said "Football is a simple game complicated by idiots".

 

 

[Tielemans63]

A tired and outdated formation is only an issue if you keep on starting every bloody match with it. I think to start with what is essentially an attacking formation but play so defensively is causing the issues whereby we're not really doing either very well. I'm sorry to hammer Shakey in the way I have been but the issue isn't the formation itself it's the guy who persists with it despite all the problems.

[RutlanderFox]

I don't see what there is to lose by switching to a 3 man midfield. It's been mentioned that we're getting overrun without Drinkwater and especially Kante which is plain to see and also it suits the midfielders we have. Iborra was used to it in Spain and he's also not very mobile and will give him the time on the ball he needs, Ndidi won't be on his arse by ht and even King, who is not the most popular nowadays is most suited to getting into box and scoring goals which he can't do when he's holding in a 2. I really miss the King from the Sven days, albeit at a different level.

[Sionnach gorm]

As said by others it is not the formation that is hurting us, but probably the coaching and the players themselves.  I can hardly fault Shakey for using the 442. A three man backfield requires very strong defenders, something we don't have.  A three man midfield requires the same thing.  I'm not sure how you would get outside of this, unless our players step it up.

[winteriscoming]

Our problem is a manager that rarely changes the system / shape when making subs. eg take a winger off bring a winger on. It becomes so predicable to the opposion. Even when he does he believes king is the answer just look at the man u game second half and Chelsea at home. When okazi starts you know he's coming off after 60 minutes so there's 1 less sub to make. I just think shakey is tactically inept. 

[Kitchandro]

No, too much emphasis is put on formations.

 

It's quite obvious that we are struggling to play 4-4-2 with the central midfielders we have. But even that is a recruitment failure, not a formation failure.

 

The bigger problem is the complete lack of tempo and hunger in our play. No movement off the ball, no conviction in passes, no desire to win the ball back and get it moving quickly.

 

You don't even need the right formation or any other tactics at all to implement those things. We could play 8 in midfield and it still wouldn't solve the problem.

 

Which is why 'when Silva & Iborra start together it will all be fine' is nonsense. There is a fundamental problem with our philosophy, specifically that we don't have a philosophy.

[Kitchandro]

Oh and a formation doesn't go from the best thing since sliced bread to 'outdated' in 2 years. There's nothing outdated about 4-4-2.

 

4-4-2 suited the players we had 2 years ago, but our failure in the transfer market means we should be compensating with 3 in the middle. It's horses for courses, our manager is just thick.

[Dawko]

[dannythefox]

4 minutes ago, Dawko said:

Jesus we're getting over run in the middle as it is that would be twice as bad.

[Trav Le Bleu]

19 hours ago, Dan LCFC said:

I don't think it's JUST the formation. It's the whole attitude in our play. No-one wants the ball.

 

Bournemouth played 4-4-2 as well and they actually played some good football.

And that's confidence. Don't know how many times I've said this on our forum, but confidence is key.

 

Whilst we have had a difficult start, it's something that better managers do, to get their players believing they are the best. Not sure CS is doing this right now.

[jumbo747]

11 minutes ago, Dawko said:

I'm sorry, and as much as I dislike criticising players/management/the club/foxestak members, but you can spend as much time as you like drawing pretty pictures, but the problems aren't going to be solved that way. As someone else remarked, there seems to be a lack of philosophy at the club, except more of the same whether it works or not. The team has any number of areas where they can be improved :-    leadership on the pitch, ball skills (including the ability to use the 'other foot' if necessary), football brains, awareness of space, reading the game and tactical ability (which is where team leadership comes in), making the effort to create space, working as a team etc. etc.

 

As I said, I'm not one to criticise manager out of hand, but all those things I've referred to above, and more, are down to Shakespeare and Appleton, and at the moment it looks like they aren't capable of building and improving a team, or at least not the one we have. So I think the owners have to seriously look at accepting relegation battles and an expensive and lengthy period of rebuilding (likely including a spell back in the Championship), getting Shakespeare and Appleton to quickly improve their methods and management skills, or getting in a new manager and coaching team.

 

As a personal opinion, I don't think the owners will accept another spell in the Championship (their King Power business comes first after all), so if things don't improve in the next 3 months we might well see a change of ownership towards the end of the season.

[st albans fox]

Interesting to note that on expected goals we should be 8th. Given how much we are into stats, perhaps the club think we are doing pretty well and once our luck changes we will be competing for the top 8 !!

[RutlanderFox]

It's amazing how "tactically inept" Shakespeare is made out to be by some, although I agree he is getting it wrong tactically this season and needs to change many things asap or he will justifiably lose his job, wasn't he considered by us to be the main man behind the "Leicester style of play" that made us successful as it was he who took training sessions under Pearson and Ranieri's first year supposedly before it started to go wrong. Whether it was him or not nearly all the coaching  staff that were at the club when this style of play started are still here so maybe we should have faith that they and particularly Shakespeare can find answers for us tactically atm although he's not doing much to warrant that faith admittidely 

[BlueTillIDie]

Nope shite tactics and poor execution of subs and personel.

[st albans fox]

It was well documented by the players that two seasons ago, ranieri's attention to detail re the opposition was amazing. Maybe shakey and his staff just aren't able to provide the players with that same input and assistance and it shows. 

 

Just another small reason as to why its all gone wrong. No idea what happened Dec Jan Feb last year with Claudio when he didn't have CL distraction to his game to game planning ........

[st albans fox]

1 hour ago, Kitchandro said:

 

 

Which is why 'when Silva & Iborra start together it will all be fine' is nonsense. There is a fundamental problem with our philosophy, specifically that we don't have a philosophy.

 

too many think it will be mate - they aren't superhuman and both are used to playing a three in a league less demanding than ours 

[biggs]

We can't keep a hold of the ball with the players we have so regardless of the formation if the players don't want the ball we are screwed. I shudder when our backs have the ball with a midfield that doesn't work together.....ball gets blasted up the park over and over and over for us to defend and repeat.....once in a while we get a bite on the ball....whoo hoo....without team cohesion no formation will succeed.

[Gazza M]

I'm afraid it is very tired tactics in a formation no longer suitable for the players we have. The sooner we get three central midfielders on the pitch the more possession we will get. We must try and aim to start getting at least 50% possession again! 

[biggs]

A midfield that wants the ball and cares to move off the ball would be a start......haven't seen us try this for some time now.....what a year that was