Shooting in Las Vegas

[GaelicFox]

1 hour ago, Line-X said:

And vaccines cause autism. Absolute ****ing scaremongering bollocks. Pure speculation - correlation does not equal causality. No doubt they all consumed the same breakfast cereal that day or had taken paracetamol that week too. 

 

As study published in the Journal of American Medical Association found that 13% of Americans were on SSRIs.

 

In each of these cases i would venture that it would be far more telling to address the commonality in their internet browsing history. 

Correct 13% of Americans on SSRI’s 

 

less than 2% in Switzerland 

 

Switzerland has virtually the same gun laws as the Americans 

 

yet this graph shows that’s 3000% more gun deaths per 100,000 people in America 

 

you go figure ! ... if you interested have a good read of Pharmagedon by Dr David Healy , might give you food for thought 

 

 

 

[GaelicFox]

41 minutes ago, Bellend Sebastian said:

I'm on an SSRI and I've just had a strange urge to kill you, Gaelic Fox. Maybe you're on to something.

 

Actually, it's passed again. You can relax

I think you should try an antipsychotic mate , clozapine is licenced now for people with a personality disorder , crack on and make your life easier to live 

 

 

[Guest MattP]

4 hours ago, leicsmac said:

Backed into a corner on this one, really.

 

Looks like he went for not choosing to politicise it then. Guess he didn't really have much of a choice.

Hillary is.

 

You are right about the way treat these things differently, if an Islamist kills 50 we sing Imagine and tell everyone to carry on as normal, a gun toting Southerner and we demand law changes (rightly I'll add) within hours to try and stop it happening.

[Carl the Llama]

8 minutes ago, GaelicFox said:

Correct 13% of Americans on SSRI’s 

 

less than 2% in Switzerland 

 

Switzerland has virtually the same gun laws as the Americans 

 

yet this graph shows that’s 3000% more gun deaths per 100,000 people in America 

 

you go figure ! ... if you interested have a good read of Pharmagedon by Dr David Healy , might give you food for thought 

They emphatically do not.  The kind of weaponry used in Las Vegas is strictly illegal under Swiss law.  No private Swiss citizen is allowed to own an automatic weapon and if they want a semi-auto they have to get a licence first, the application for which involves a criminal record check.

[The Doctor]

6 minutes ago, GaelicFox said:

Correct 13% of Americans on SSRI’s 

 

less than 2% in Switzerland 

 

Switzerland has virtually the same gun laws as the Americans 

 

yet this graph shows that’s 3000% more gun deaths per 100,000 people in America 

 

you go figure ! ...

Yep, nothing to do with American attitudes towards guns vs Swiss, all to do with a class of medication  - pull the other one.

[GaelicFox]

14 minutes ago, The Doctor said:

Yep, nothing to do with American attitudes towards guns vs Swiss, all to do with a class of medication  - pull the other one.

Fact: Between 2004 and 2012, there have been 14,773 reports to the U.S. FDA’s MedWatch system on SSri psychiatric drugs causing violent side effects including: 1,531 cases of homicidal ideation/homicide, 3,287 cases of mania & 8,219 cases of aggression. Note:  The FDA estimates that less than 1% of all serious events are ever reported to it, so the actual number of side effects occurring are most certainly higher.

 

you might like to think Americans are all gun toting psychopaths but the fact is these drugs are linked (by science) to a huge Increase in violent aggression 

 

 

Do you know that these SSRI Anti-depressants have been associated with 28 reports of murder referred to the UK medicines regulator ? Yes the UK 

 

Murderous thoughts were also believed to be linked to the medication on 32 occasions.

 

Professor Peter Tyrer, psychiatrist at Imperial College London who has been studying SSRIs, he said: “You can never be quite certain with a rare side-effect whether it’s linked to a drug or not because it could be related to other things.

"But it’s happened just too frequently with this class of drug to make it random. It’s obviously related to the drug but we don’t know exactly why.”

 

Professor Tyrer is calling for the judicial system to take into account the possible effects of SSRIs in cases where people taking them commit violent crimes.

 

but you keep telling yourself there is no link and you won’t have to worry about it.

 

But I do see the link and I do worry about it because I see the numbers of people dished out these drugs on a daily basis.

 

its frightening .... and most people who get them have NO signs of clinical depression ! 

 

[GaelicFox]

17 minutes ago, Carl the Llama said:

They emphatically do not.  The kind of weaponry used in Las Vegas is strictly illegal under Swiss law.  No private Swiss citizen is allowed to own an automatic weapon and if they want a semi-auto they have to get a licence first, the application for which involves a criminal record check.

Ok automatic weapons are illegal but the rate is still 3000% lower in a country where almost anyone can register and have a gun 

 

some of it I'm sure is related to street drugs crime and general lawlessness in America 

 

but without doubt the fact that SSRI consumption in America is 10 Times the consumption in Switzerland per head is also a fact that cannot be ignored now that the anecdotal evidence , science and statistics all point to SSRI consumption being a key factor in so many murderous actions and suicides 

 

 

 

[leicsmac]

29 minutes ago, MattP said:

Hillary is.

 

You are right about the way treat these things differently, if an Islamist kills 50 we sing Imagine and tell everyone to carry on as normal, a gun toting Southerner and we demand law changes (rightly I'll add) within hours to try and stop it happening.

OK, just for the sake of clarity here, the suggestion here is that there is a weaker response in the US, in word and deed, politically and at ground level, to a Muslim terror attack than one where a white guy is responsible?

 

I'll be honest, I'm not sure I'm getting there on that one.

 

[The Doctor]

17 minutes ago, GaelicFox said:

Fact: Between 2004 and 2012, there have been 14,773 reports to the U.S. FDA’s MedWatch system on SSri psychiatric drugs causing violent side effects including: 1,531 cases of homicidal ideation/homicide, 3,287 cases of mania & 8,219 cases of aggression. Note:  The FDA estimates that less than 1% of all serious events are ever reported to it, so the actual number of side effects occurring are most certainly higher.

 

you might like to think Americans are all gun toting psychopaths but the fact is these drugs are linked (by science) to a huge Increase in violent aggression 

 

 

Do you know that these SSRI Anti-depressants have been associated with 28 reports of murder referred to the UK medicines regulator ? Yes the UK 

 

Murderous thoughts were also believed to be linked to the medication on 32 occasions.

 

Professor Peter Tyrer, psychiatrist at Imperial College London who has been studying SSRIs, he said: “You can never be quite certain with a rare side-effect whether it’s linked to a drug or not because it could be related to other things.

"But it’s happened just too frequently with this class of drug to make it random. It’s obviously related to the drug but we don’t know exactly why.”

 

Professor Tyrer is calling for the judicial system to take into account the possible effects of SSRIs in cases where people taking them commit violent crimes.

 

but you keep telling yourself there is no link and you won’t have to worry about it.

 

But I do see the link and I do worry about it because I see the numbers of people dished out these drugs on a daily basis.

 

its frightening .... and most people who get them have NO signs of clinical depression ! 

 

You have absolutely no clue what you're talking about.

 

People have studied a possible link between SSRI use and violence - https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3395354/; there is a trend between SSRI use and violence. A negative one. The myth that SSRIs cause violence doesn't hold up when the data is examined, and when you point to things like 28 reports of homicide, you're basing your argument on speculation in courts rather than an observed causal effect.

 

You see the link like anti-vaxxers see the link between vaccines and autism - there's not actually a link, you've just invented one from a position of ignorance.

[Finnegan]

I've been on and off ssris most of my adult life. 

 

Never shot up a music festival tbh. 

[Bellend Sebastian]

19 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

I've been on and off ssris most of my adult life. 

 

Never shot up a music festival tbh. 

You and I are SO going to have to never shoot up a music festival just so we can win this argument with Gaelic Fox.

 

Could end up saving a lot of people actually

[Strokes]

41 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

I've been on and off ssris most of my adult life. 

 

Never shot up a music festival tbh. 

You do have rage issues though  

[Phube]

All you can guarantee is that nothing will change. If nothing happened after Sandy Hook it's not going to happen after this!

[Trav Le Bleu]

43 minutes ago, Bellend Sebastian said:

You and I are SO going to have to never shoot up a music festival just so we can win this argument with Gaelic Fox.

 

Could end up saving a lot of people actually

It's only a matter of time though, face it.

 

[Guest Col city fan]

Same old arguments aren't they...

[Guest Col city fan]

10 hours ago, GaelicFox said:

I think you should try an antipsychotic mate , clozapine is licenced now for people with a personality disorder , crack on and make your life easier to live 

 

 

I didn't know Cloz was licensed for PD?

 

[Buce]

9 hours ago, Finnegan said:

I've been on and off ssris most of my adult life. 

 

Never shot up a music festival...

 

...yet. 

[Guest]

11 hours ago, MattP said:

Hillary is.

 

You are right about the way treat these things differently, if an Islamist kills 50 we sing Imagine and tell everyone to carry on as normal, a gun toting Southerner and we demand law changes (rightly I'll add) within hours to try and stop it happening.

We've changed hundreds of laws because of Islamic terrorism. As had the US. Travel bans, snoopers charters, border walls, liquids on planes, increased security checks, mass surveillance to name just a tiny few. 

 

A white guy with a gun has been the cause of multiple mass shootings in.the US and new laws are asked for because no new laws are ever enacted after these terrible crimes are committed.

 

You've rather warped reality to reach your conclusion.

[Guest MattP]

3 minutes ago, toddybad said:

We've changed hundreds of laws because of Islamic terrorism. As had the US. Travel bans, snoopers charters, border walls, liquids on planes, increased security checks, mass surveillance to name just a tiny few. 

 

A white guy with a gun has been the cause of multiple mass shootings in.the US and new laws are asked for because no new laws are ever enacted after these terrible crimes are committed.

 

You've rather warped reality to reach your conclusion.

Vast majority of those were after 9/11.

 

A similar case to this would be Orlando, what laws were changed after that?

[Guest MattP]

I think everyone realises something needs to change in the country, they need to re-write laws that were implemented when a gun held one bullet, I'mm all for people who live in rural areas of the country hours from a police station being able to arm themselves for self protection but that shouldn't include the right to buy weapons that can discharge 100 rounds a minute.

 

I don't think it will change anything though, if there are 500 million guns in the USA then a ban on selling them will be futile, there are countries all across the Americas that have made firearms illegal and it hasn't made a jot ot difference to the murder rates.

[Guest]

59 minutes ago, MattP said:

Vast majority of those were after 9/11.

 

A similar case to this would be Orlando, what laws were changed after that?

 

[lgfualol]

9/11 had 3000 deaths and it changed the world.

 

USA has already had 11,000 deaths from guns this year, and nothing will be done.

[urban.spaceman]

If they're not going to change their gun laws after 20 six year olds are murdered at their primary school with a semi-automatic and a glock, they're never going to change their gun laws. That was the day that doomed America to an eternity of insanity.

[Julian Joachim Jr Shabadoo]

I'm part of a Facebook group called Everything Las Vegas as I'm heading there on Thursday (it's useful for tips on where to eat/stay/offers etc and general info) and naturally yesterday the only conversations on there were covering the shooting

 

Someone mentioned that after a shooting such as this, perhaps the government should consider imposing stricter gun laws... the person was shot down (pardon the pun, that is the only phrase I can think of that applies here) and everyone incorrectly assumed the person was English and should mind their own business. The general argument was that "it's in our constitution", "we need guns to protect ourselves", yada yada. Someone argued if the murderer wanted to they could have used a baseball bat rather than a gun. Think about that - a baseball bat rampage which kills over 50 people and severely injures another 200.

 

I used to have aspirations to move to the States in later life, and yesterday just made me think what a ridiculous idea that would be. There is absolutely no reason the general public need any sort of access to an LMG/automatic assault rifle, let alone a handgun. To be able to legally carry one outside of a protected environment such as a shooting range or military base seems fvcking mental to me.

 

There will always be gun crime everywhere, but without looking up the actual statistics I know a place such as here in the UK the chances of us suffering a similar event to the Las Vegas massacre are incredibly slim.

[urban.spaceman]

30 minutes ago, Julian Joachim Jr Shabadoo said:

I'm part of a Facebook group called Everything Las Vegas as I'm heading there on Thursday (it's useful for tips on where to eat/stay/offers etc and general info) and naturally yesterday the only conversations on there were covering the shooting

 

Someone mentioned that after a shooting such as this, perhaps the government should consider imposing stricter gun laws... the person was shot down (pardon the pun, that is the only phrase I can think of that applies here) and everyone incorrectly assumed the person was English and should mind their own business. The general argument was that "it's in our constitution", "we need guns to protect ourselves", yada yada. Someone argued if the murderer wanted to they could have used a baseball bat rather than a gun. Think about that - a baseball bat rampage which kills over 50 people and severely injures another 200.

 

I used to have aspirations to move to the States in later life, and yesterday just made me think what a ridiculous idea that would be. There is absolutely no reason the general public need any sort of access to an LMG/automatic assault rifle, let alone a handgun. To be able to legally carry one outside of a protected environment such as a shooting range or military base seems fvcking mental to me.

 

There will always be gun crime everywhere, but without looking up the actual statistics I know a place such as here in the UK the chances of us suffering a similar event to the Las Vegas massacre are incredibly slim.

https://www.reddit.com/r/gunpolitics/

 

This is also interesting reading. Americans are ****ing mental.