Rachid Ghezzal signs.

[rachhere]

1 hour ago, wokinghamfox said:

Sorry if anybody has already mentioned this but having watched him on Saturday I have drawn the conclusion that he could come good if he was a lot braver than he is.

He does the safe thing all the time and appears afraid to be a little ambitious on the ball. Always the easy pass, little flick, lets release the ball as soon as I get it. He needs confidence and belief in his ability, take players on, do the tricks ( he has them in his feet). Thats what made Mahrez a great player. I believe this guy has it but needs a lot more self belief.

In some ways his desire to release the ball when he's more central is what I like about him the most - he often looks to flick on the ball onto others in the box... it's just that's not always picked up on so doesn't come off. I can't remember which match it was now, but I remember one game where he good easily have got two or three assists if only others had anticipated it better.

 

I do agree though that quite often when he's out wide and being closed down he panics. 

[rachhere]

6 minutes ago, FIF said:

 

He has played pretty poorly with the U23s - though yesterday he was quite electric.

Wasn't he! For once you looked at him and thought he was a standout player, whereas in recent U23 matches he hadn't really shone at all. Hopefully he will get a bit of a run out at the Southampton cup match. 

[RumbleFox]

15 minutes ago, murphy said:

Trouble with this kind of comment is that you don't seem to have read the bits where I said 'deserved criticism' and 'credit when it's due'. 

 

If you want to reply to something I haven't said, it would be best not to quote me.

Look, I am fully aware I am one of the most annoying posters on here, probably in the top 10, but I feel my point is valid.  No one is "Shutting down" discussion.  People are just frustrated with over the top criticism.  Nor did anyone ever demand that all we do is simply  "just talk about the weather".  People are annoyed when players get slagged of personally or unreasonably.  No one (well not me) minds constructive criticism.  You also ignored the part where I stated this quite clearly in my original response.  I do not disagree with a lot you have said but I think some people (not you) come on here and just stir sh1t up and slag players off with no constructiveness and often with personal insults and then when challenged respond with "This is a forum you are trying to shut me down" which is so frustrating as a debating method.  Anyhoo, as you pointed out, this is a discussion forum so thank you for discussing with me.  X

Edited 13 November 2018 by RumbleFox

[murphy]

1 hour ago, RumbleFox said:

Look, I am fully aware I am one of the most annoying posters on here, probably in the top 10, but I feel my point is valid.  No one is "Shutting down" discussion.  People are just frustrated with over the top criticism.  Nor did anyone ever demand that all we do is simply  "just talk about the weather".  People are annoyed when players get slagged of personally or unreasonably.  No one (well not me) minds constructive criticism.  You also ignored the part where I stated this quite clearly in my original response.  I do not disagree with a lot you have said but I think some people (not you) come on here and just stir sh1t up and slag players off with no constructiveness and often with personal insults and then when challenged respond with "This is a forum you are trying to shut me down" which is so frustrating as a debating method.  Anyhoo, as you pointed out, this is a discussion forum so thank you for discussing with me.  X

You are actually one of the better posters here IMO.

 

I get what you're saying, but if we rewind to the post I was replying to, it was basically saying that RG has not had enough games or time for people to pass judgement.  That old chestnut frustrates me.  That's what I mean by 'shutting down' and I think you have misunderstood that.

 

I was simply saying that we have every right to discuss or criticise a player based on what we are seeing at the time so long as you are also prepared to also give credit when it's due.  We can also say whether we think that a signing is good or bad before the player has even kicked a ball for us based on his attributes or career to date.

 

You have made a point about abuse or excessive criticism and I don't disagree with you, but why quote my point which has nothing to do with that?

 

That's all I'm saying.

Edited 13 November 2018 by murphy

[Shane]

He looked great at number 10, but realistically he probably won’t play there when Maddison is fit.. Even though it could be argued that Ghezzal’s first half performance is better than anything we’ve seen from Maddison.

 

Maybe when Ghezzal plays RW, he can drift more centrally knowing Pereira will bomb forward and cover the flank? I guess the idea is that Ghezzal will be a sort of false RW, playing more narrow and looking to link with Maddison and Vardy. 

 

I know it hasn’t happened the few times he’s played there, but given time it could work. 2 games ago we said Pereira was never a RB, now all of a sudden he’s looking good! Maybe the same will happen with Ghezzal at RW. 

Edited 13 November 2018 by Shane

[turtmcfly]

33 minutes ago, murphy said:

You are actually one of the better posters here IMO.

 

I get what you're saying, but if we rewind to the post I was replying to, it was basically saying that RG has not had enough games or time for people to pass judgement.  That old chestnut frustrates me.  I was simply saying that we have every right to discuss or criticise a player based on what we are seeing at the time so long as you are also prepared to also give credit when it's due.  We can also say whether we think that a signing is good or bad before the player has even kicked a ball for us based on his attributes or career to date.

 

You have made a point about abuse or excessive criticism, which is valid, but why quote my point which has nothing to do with that?

 

That's all I'm saying.

Hmmmm. I've just re-read the post you replied to, and it makes pretty much the same point @RumbleFox makes - that a dozen games is way too soon to be writing him off as dog-shit. It's not a call for suspending all comment. I'm with the pair of them - judge when you like, even judge based on bloody YouTube videos before our hapless victim had arrived, but let's have something nuanced and caveated that allows for the probability that we'll end up looking like tits.

Edited 13 November 2018 by turtmcfly

[murphy]

He makes a point about patience.  That is what the post is about.  Yes, he says 'dog shit' but that is emphasis.

 

I guess we'll agree to differ.

 

 

 

In other words, you're both wrong.  

[lcfc sheff]

2 hours ago, rachhere said:

Wasn't he! For once you looked at him and thought he was a standout player, whereas in recent U23 matches he hadn't really shone at all. Hopefully he will get a bit of a run out at the Southampton cup match. 

it's a confidence thing, he's quite clearly talented; we've all seen what he can do to get past a man. Problem is he seems to have been just casted aside and forgotten about by Puel.

[rachhere]

1 minute ago, lcfc sheff said:

it's a confidence thing, he's quite clearly talented; we've all seen what he can do to get past a man. Problem is he seems to have been just casted aside and forgotten about by Puel.

To be fair Puel gave him so much opportunity in pre-season. Moving forward I would like to see him hovering more between the two teams, for example coming on as a sub with a decent amount of time to get into a game where we are in a commanding position. Otherwise I worry about him making that transition again. He was on the bench on Saturday, but I personally wouldn't have felt comfortable bringing him on as the game was too delicately poised and he's not played at that level for quite some time now. I really think this is a problem though as we do need players like him who can be ready to come on in the later stages of a game and give us an attacking boost - our options on Saturday were really quite limited. 

 

[Simoken]

I thought he was our best player on the weekend, His workrate chasing down the ball was toprate and you can see potential in his central/wing positional role will be quite exciting once hes developed and caught up with the pace of PL football. I was so glad to see him perform because i did hear great things in french league but i had my concerns.. He relies so heavily on his left foot.

 

In other news-

Gray has improved so much this season, hes so fast to turn and run forward with the ball, Im really pleased in his development and we clearly missed him when injured.

Edited 13 November 2018 by Simoken

[lcfc sheff]

12 minutes ago, rachhere said:

To be fair Puel gave him so much opportunity in pre-season. Moving forward I would like to see him hovering more between the two teams, for example coming on as a sub with a decent amount of time to get into a game where we are in a commanding position. Otherwise I worry about him making that transition again. He was on the bench on Saturday, but I personally wouldn't have felt comfortable bringing him on as the game was too delicately poised and he's not played at that level for quite some time now. I really think this is a problem though as we do need players like him who can be ready to come on in the later stages of a game and give us an attacking boost - our options on Saturday were really quite limited. 

 

He's still so young so can't see why we should just give up on him, and like you've said our bench isn't exactly great for options at the moment so should see him a few more times. Atleast until we invest in someone better.

[LCCFox96]

Thought Ghezzal had his best game for us this weekend. He looked better in the central position where he was involved more in the link up play rather than driving forward out wide. I especially liked his hold up play and ability to bring other players into the game. He's also got a good work rate, is a threat from long range shots and has a decent delivery.

 

Obviously Puel said the Albrighton sub was injury management, hence Ghezzal going wide but thus far he's looked quite lumbersome and awkward out wide. He's a strange build for a winger. He doesn't inspire much confidence to knock the ball past and beat a man for pace like a Lloyd Dyer type winger, nor does have that graceful style where he's going to beat a man for skill and class like Riyad. He's kind of inbetween the two and that seems to have made settling in difficult as he seems quite predictable. 

[Guest]

I'd like to say that the sun is shining here and it's a very pleasant 17°C. 

[rachhere]

14 minutes ago, LCCFox96 said:

Thought Ghezzal had his best game for us this weekend. He looked better in the central position where he was involved more in the link up play rather than driving forward out wide. I especially liked his hold up play and ability to bring other players into the game. He's also got a good work rate, is a threat from long range shots and has a decent delivery.

  

Obviously Puel said the Albrighton sub was injury management, hence Ghezzal going wide but thus far he's looked quite lumbersome and awkward out wide. He's a strange build for a winger. He doesn't inspire much confidence to knock the ball past and beat a man for pace like a Lloyd Dyer type winger, nor does have that graceful style where he's going to beat a man for skill and class like Riyad. He's kind of inbetween the two and that seems to have made settling in difficult as he seems quite predictable. 

I think this sums it up really. He does work really hard, and I think could rightly be frustrated at times when his teammates have failed to anticipate his runs... as soon as he has off loaded the ball he's looking to get forward into space. Him and Ricardo seem to link up well too which is encouraging and I seem to remember from the Liverpool match that him and Madisson worked well together and it helped Madisson get further forward. 

[RumbleFox]

2 hours ago, murphy said:

You are actually one of the better posters here IMO.

 

I get what you're saying, but if we rewind to the post I was replying to, it was basically saying that RG has not had enough games or time for people to pass judgement.  That old chestnut frustrates me.  That's what I mean by 'shutting down' and I think you have misunderstood that.

 

I was simply saying that we have every right to discuss or criticise a player based on what we are seeing at the time so long as you are also prepared to also give credit when it's due.  We can also say whether we think that a signing is good or bad before the player has even kicked a ball for us based on his attributes or career to date.

 

You have made a point about abuse or excessive criticism and I don't disagree with you, but why quote my point which has nothing to do with that?

 

That's all I'm saying.

I love you.

 

Yeah I get what you are saying.  I think the problem probably lies in the extremes.  There are people that go OTT all the time and clearly have an agenda against a certain player/manager or just like to wind people up.  These people then get a reaction from posters like me (which is usually warranted) but it sometimes happens at the wrong moment or someone more reasonable gets the response that has been building for 100 shitty posts.  Same the other way round, some people are painfully anti any kind of debate but then everyone even slightly positive gets lumped in with them.

 

Same as life in general I suppose, the nobwangers on either end ruin it for everyone esle.  Nothing frustrates me more on this site than people slagging off players or managers (especially when it gets personal) without any level of constructiveness or thought.  The real issue is why do I bother pulling people up on it?  Because, probably, I am self righteous, slightly obtuse and have too much free time but I can at least be honest about that.  Your post didn't really annoy me implicitly in what you said I more felt it was slightly harsh on the original poster as really all they seemed to be saying was "some people judge players way too quickly".

 

I like your posts in general too and I am never too nobby to discuss things or retract things or look at things from other views.  X

 

 

Edited 13 November 2018 by RumbleFox

[HighPeakFox]

It's interesting watching @murphyand @RumbleFox discuss this, as I think you both post well and I generally have you down on the same side of humanity. 

[Xen]

Ghezzal was definitely one of our standout players at the weekend. Very imressed with that first half. He's got stiff competition though if he wants to make it at n10 for us, particularly long-term if Barnes is able to make the step up.

 

If we're not going to play with a more conventional target man what I'd like to see - at times - is a very fluid 3 behind Vardy of Gray/Maddison/Ghezzal, with all three of them capable of popping up on either wing or centrally. All of them take on players in slightly different ways so it could be a good ploy to keep defenders guessing, particularly with Chilwell/Pereira providing the extra width.

 

He's still learning his way in the league so we can't expect the finished article yet and he was never going to live up to the Riyad-standard as some people seemed to expect, but he's shown that he's capable and now just needs to add consistency. Not massively dissimilar to Chilwell last season, in that respect. I'm optimistic that he'll improve over time and be a steady player for us, given the chance.

[rachhere]

3 minutes ago, Xen said:

Ghezzal was definitely one of our standout players at the weekend. Very imressed with that first half. He's got stiff competition though if he wants to make it at n10 for us, particularly long-term if Barnes is able to make the step up.

 

If we're not going to play with a more conventional target man what I'd like to see - at times - is a very fluid 3 behind Vardy of Gray/Maddison/Ghezzal, with all three of them capable of popping up on either wing or centrally. All of them take on players in slightly different ways so it could be a good ploy to keep defenders guessing, particularly with Chilwell/Pereira providing the extra width.

 

He's still learning his way in the league so we can't expect the finished article yet and he was never going to live up to the Riyad-standard as some people seemed to expect, but he's shown that he's capable and now just needs to add consistency. Not massively dissimilar to Chilwell last season, in that respect. I'm optimistic that he'll improve over time and be a steady player for us, given the chance.

I think this is the way forward personally. Gray seems confident playing more centrally too. We tried this before with Gray, Nacho and Maddison, but would be interesting having Ghezzal in there instead as it would then enable Maddison to play the more central role. 

[Iran]

Ghezzal was definitely one of our better player this weekend, he was at the heart of everything and was very unfortunate not to score on that header. It shows Puel is very confident in him, not to mention Ghezzal appears to improve game by game which is very nice! His new position suits him nicely and hopefully starts against Brighton.

[Ric Flair]

If you dont have pace and you play out wide then you need a very quick brain and a lot of skill. Ghezzal certainly looks to move the ball on quickly and has some very nice moves so he could still do well here. 

 

The games where he's been quiet or poor are when we have very little pace elsewhere in the team and hes given the ball when the opposition are camped in front of him, like vs West Ham. The lack of pace amongst Maddison, Albrighton, Ghezzal and Iheanacho was evident and we as a whole team just looked laboured. Fast forward to last Saturday and with Gray, Vardy, Ricardo and Albrighton looking busier it was a better environment for Ghezzal to receive the ball and use it better. 

 

I think he'll be the sort who will score or assist about 5-6 times in a season but some of them will be crucial. 

[Simoken]

5 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

Ghezzal certainly looks to move the ball on quickly and has some very nice moves so he could still do well here.

I have to disagree completely, He takes way too long to turn with the ball at times. I dont like how he relies on his left foot soo much and if you watch him you can see how unusual his turns are to get into a position to move the ball forward. There are times i just wish hed be quicker. Gray for example on Saturday was lightning quick at it and if you compare the two, Ghezzal is way off the pace. ( I may of misread your comment on this)

[Ric Flair]

1 hour ago, Simoken said:

I have to disagree completely, He takes way too long to turn with the ball at times. I dont like how he relies on his left foot soo much and if you watch him you can see how unusual his turns are to get into a position to move the ball forward. There are times i just wish hed be quicker. Gray for example on Saturday was lightning quick at it and if you compare the two, Ghezzal is way off the pace. ( I may of misread your comment on this)

Ghezzal has been caught at times this season holding on to the ball which is usually when the whole team is looking laboured. On Saturday, there was a zip about the whole attack and it gave Ghezzal the environment to be more decisive with the ball. He was getting it, turning and releasing it which I liked. Maddison had had a quiet few games prior to Saturday and it was nice to see someone at number 10 who was moving the ball on well and getting in the box himself. He lacks pace though, which will make it hard for him against teams that sit back and squeeze the space.

[Bert]

Saturday was definitely his best game for us. He’s got the potential. Still in the settling in period. 

[les-tah]

Regarding the competition to Maddison... arnt we trying to convert him to number 10?  Didn't Madders have a very successful season last in Centre mid? Correct me if im wrong please!!! but if Ghezzal is that good in the number 10 then we could have Maddison back in midfield next to ndidi with a alot more freedom to get forward than Mendy? 

 

P.S i could really be mistaken about Maddisons position last season ha ha 

Edited 15 November 2018 by les-tah

[bfox]

On 13/11/2018 at 09:37, murphy said:

You are actually one of the better posters here IMO.

 

I get what you're saying, but if we rewind to the post I was replying to, it was basically saying that RG has not had enough games or time for people to pass judgement.  That old chestnut frustrates me.  That's what I mean by 'shutting down' and I think you have misunderstood that.

 

I was simply saying that we have every right to discuss or criticise a player based on what we are seeing at the time so long as you are also prepared to also give credit when it's due.  We can also say whether we think that a signing is good or bad before the player has even kicked a ball for us based on his attributes or career to date.

 

You have made a point about abuse or excessive criticism and I don't disagree with you, but why quote my point which has nothing to do with that?

 

That's all I'm saying.

I think everybody has the right to say whatever they want whenever they want regardless. Its upto you how you respond to it! ??