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StriderHiryu

The Tactics Thread

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2 minutes ago, Dan LCFC said:

Got his subs absolutely spot on tonight. I felt they swung the pendulum back our way when we were looking under huge pressure. Attack the best form of defence.

Absolutely, Maddison held the ball up and linked play brilliantly. He is our best player at dealing with a high press because he has that Isco like ability to turn and shimmy out of tight spaces. His passing through the lines is also exquisite.

 

As for Under, he just continues to impress. Very similar to Barnes in terms of frightening pace that opponents struggle to deal with, but he has way more composure than Barnes which is why he can pick out such great passes. That pass was again on his "weaker" foot. Those two subs won us the game no doubt about it as we totally deflated Leeds with the third goal.

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Noticeable that Kasper kicked it long quite a few times  rather than us trying to play it out every single time.

 

In the past, they have tried to pass it out from the keeper, even where it might be a bit risky.

 

Whether this was solely because of the weather and pitch conditions, or a reaction to Leeds way of pressing, or a conscious pre-match decision, I don't know, but I liked it.

 

 

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41 minutes ago, Vacamion said:

 

Noticeable that Kasper kicked it long quite a few times  rather than us trying to play it out every single time.

 

In the past, they have tried to pass it out from the keeper, even where it might be a bit risky.

 

Whether this was solely because of the weather and pitch conditions, or a reaction to Leeds way of pressing, or a conscious pre-match decision, I don't know, but I liked it.

 

 

Got a feeling it was because of the pitch. 

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I think we have shown that we have a way to play against the better teams in this league and results at Man City and Arsenal away demonstrate that. We've found it difficult to play against teams that deny us space like West Ham and Villa did and it will be interesting to see how we cope against Wolves as they'll be another team intent on frustrating us and leaving very little space in behind. We need our creative players I feel for Wolves so would like to see Maddison and Under from the start

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15 hours ago, StriderHiryu said:

Absolutely, Maddison held the ball up and linked play brilliantly. He is our best player at dealing with a high press because he has that Isco like ability to turn and shimmy out of tight spaces. His passing through the lines is also exquisite.

 

He's also excellent at showing for the ball to relieve pressure on the backline and deeper midfield players and drawing 'cheap' fouls to win free kicks and break up the opposition play and momentum. It's highly frustrating when you come up against a player who does that against you - Grealish for example is also brilliant at it - but when you're defending a narrow lead as we were at the time and looking to break out it's a massive asset. 

 

He's shown similar ability in both of the penalties he's won this year too - letting the ball run across him and sucking in the contact before going down.

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57 minutes ago, davieG said:

https://www.coachesvoice.com/tactical-analysis-leeds-1-leicester-4/

 

Premier League, November 2 2020

Leeds 1
Dallas (48)

 

Leicester 4
Barnes (3)
Tielemans (21, 90+1 pen)
Vardy (76)

This is a really good piece of analysis, one of the best pieces I've seen written about Leicester in a long time. I think they summarised it best right at the end when they say:
 

There was an intelligence and discipline to their approach, which ultimately contained a free-flowing and attack-minded team.

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Spot on approach from Rodgers last night.

 

If you setup in the right way against this Leeds side, they are very easy to play against.

 

Ourselves and Wolves got our approaches spot on, you have to be conservative against them and press them at the right times. Master that correctly like we did, once you break their midfield line, then their defence is there for the taking. We exposed that so many times last night, especially in the first half, once we broke their midfield line they were shit scared of us, I wasn’t surprised Bielsa took Shackleton off at half time, we embarrassed the guy.

 

Second half was very tough for the first 20 minutes, a big reason for that was, we just didn’t keep the ball well enough in the final third. We were still getting past their midfield line; however once we did that, our first pass would go straight back to a Leeds player.

 

This is where Brendan also got his tactics spot on, Praet and Barnes weren’t keeping the ball well enough, they rightfully got took off, once Maddison came on especially, that turned the game back in our favour. We then had somebody who could keep the ball in the final third, and that was seen with our third goal, one pass broke their midfield line, Maddison was in acres of space, easy through ball to Under, across to Vardy, goal. 
 

This is where Brendan is showing his merit, he is finally adapting when it comes to different setups and tactics, last season we questioned his lack of a Plan B, but it looks like he’s finally found one. Now the only thing we need to do, is find ways to break the more defensive teams in the league down.

Edited by kingfox
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1 minute ago, StriderHiryu said:

I will do another Tactics piece soon. This 343 system is working so well for us right now.

 

The biggest change to our play this season is that rather than bossing possession and passing it sideways for 90 minutes, we control the game so it takes place in front of us, and counter press at opportune times. We press the ball when in it's our half, but let the opposition pass it sideways when in theirs. We make higher quality chances as a result, despite not having as much possession. It's not quite the counter attack from 15/16 because we don't play the ball forwards as quickly and are content to get the ball down and actually play. It's actually genius because football is always evolving. With so many teams now playing a high counter press in the Premier League, this is a tactic to counter that strategy because we can play out of the first press and then have the players with pace and quality to turn that press into a 1v1 or 2v2 opportunity. Oh and one of those players is called Jamie Vardy.

 

Rodgers deserves a lot of credit for this systematic change and the scariest thing is we are this good without Castagne and Ricardo. You put a peak Ricardo into this team the way it's playing now and well... Add this to our game management that we seemed to have learned this season and this is a team that is capable of winning a trophy.

 

VERY exciting times to be a Fox.

It's a huge change and every player has taken it in their stride. We are very easy on the eye and the difference between this passing side and a Puel passing side is that we do it much further up the pitch and get up further up the pitch.

 

I still have to pinch myself about the prospects of having a full squad at some point in the season and get very excited about how they'll fit in this dynamic side. Rodgers does deserve a lot of credit, too. 

 

The attitude of these fringe players has been superb. It's what you want in a squad - players ready to step up when called upon. A manager couldn't really ask for more to be honest. Whether it's the older folk (Fuchs, Morgan, Albrighton) or younger players (Thomas, Hamza). They all know their job and today shows they know how to do it well. 

 

The way we transition as well from defence to midfield to attack is lovely to watch. 


Fofana looks so comfortable in the back 3, too. Hopefully that helps Soyuncu who has seemed to struggle before in that shape. 

 

I loved the way Maddison constantly found pockets of space. Similar to how Vardy would stick between the width of the 18-yard box across the front line, Maddison would do the same but just a tad deeper. Easy to find for defenders and he's on the half-turn as well which means he's always on the front foot. Gets in scoring positions as well but he's good at manouevring his body in to good positions that draws in fouls too. 

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One other thing to note is what happens when a team turns up that works out our system. For example in 15/16 the first manager that "worked out" Leicester City was incredibly Tony Pulis in the 2-2 game against West Brom at the King Power. He realised that the way to counter Leicester City was to... counter Leicester City, and play a counter attack. That's why in the second half of the season we scored far fewer goals, as teams did not push up against us. But Ranieri knew what to do and turned us into an attritional unit that could grind out games and get 1-0 wins. Mahrez was the X-Factor and players like Schlupp and Ulloa off the bench had key impacts at various times.

 

So at some point a team will play a system that counters us. Perhaps we have already seen this with West Ham, though I would argue that was still in the infancy stages of 343 where players weren't quite used to the system as they are now. We also played horrendously on an individual level in that game. As I write this, we've just played Braga and they've played a front 3 to press our back 3, and two midfielders to mark out midfield two, plus a deeper block at the back. The idea being to stop us playing out and turning possession they get into chances. The game ended 4-0 to us and that scoreline flatters them!

 

A deep block by the opposition may still be the best tactic to beat us as that's what West Ham played, but with players like Under, Praet, Maddison and Tielemans, plus the potential of Castagne and Ricardo when they are back, we might still have enough to adapt to that strategy. Time will tell!

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@StriderHiryu what do you think happens when Ndidi is back fit?

 

I think his injury has helped in a way as it's meant Rodgers has been able to drop Tielemans back a bit to play in a two with much better passer in Mendy, whereas Ndidi was best on his own to mop up but he was never the best distributor or receiver of the ball from defence. Even last season I often thought Ndidi wasn't sort of player Rodgers wanted in that position..

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7 minutes ago, Blue and white said:

@StriderHiryu what do you think happens when Ndidi is back fit?

 

I think his injury has helped in a way as it's meant Rodgers has been able to drop Tielemans back a bit to play in a two with much better passer in Mendy, whereas Ndidi was best on his own to mop up but he was never the best distributor or receiver of the ball from defence. Even last season I often thought Ndidi wasn't sort of player Rodgers wanted in that position..

Very interesting question!

 

Ndidi is our best central midfielder, but Nampalys Mendy is for me our player of the season so far. He's been good in every game other than West Ham and has the highest pass completion rate in the entire squad. The back 3 means we don't rely as much on a central defensive midfielder, so the two of him and Tielemans role is more to play out of the press and instigate attacks. IE creativity and control is more important than winning tackles.

 

Under Rodgers I think Ndidi's passing has improved dramatically so I expect he will eventually work his way back in. But there is no need to rush him back like we did last season. Some people have even suggested that Ndidi could play as the central defender in the back 3 and have Mendy in front of him and honestly, that is not the worst idea in the world, because in the 4141 system, our fullbacks push forward and Ndidi drops back into defence when we attack. Yes we have Evans, Soyuncu and Fofana, but they can't play every game. So I think we will see this tried at least one more time as it was earlier in the season, albeit that was in a 4141 and not 343.

 

A theme of this season will be heavy rotation of the squad. I imagine Ndidi plays the biggest games, but if Mendy plays like he has, he will play a lot of games for us this season. A bit like Joe Allen at Swansea, but also Busquets at Barcelona, Fernandinho at Man City, Mendy might not look that flashy but when he plays... the team plays better overall. It's no coincidence.

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Whilst some of our line ups and formations may have been partially forced due to the injury crisis, I think that going forward we will see far more rotation in respect of both personnel and shape. BR has admitted that he needed to adapt and that is what we are now seeing. Mendy I agree has probably been our most consistent performer so far this season and will be used in games where we need to beat a high press with Wilf stepping in when we need to be more solid and soak up pressure.

Whilst there is the argument that stability brings consistency (ala 2015/16) i suspect we will see a much more “horses for courses” approach to team selection and set up now.

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ud872a9xtkx51.jpg?width=640&height=626&c

 

^Pass map from the Braga game. You have to be careful with these as they don't often tell the whole story but in this case it does tell us quite a few things that are interesting about our new system.

 

- At times Maddison is almost played as a "false 9" IE he's the furthest player forward, but not a striker. He's playing to stretch defences around and make space for other players. He's also our most creative player as a result. 

- The other member of the two advanced midfielders / forwards behind our striker operate a lot more centrally than in the 4141. Both are encouraged to drift and play through the lines which makes picking them up very difficult. This is why we are making much higher quality chances recently. 

- Despite starting the game as a third centre back, Justin pushes up a lot as a spare man and ancillary attacking player. At times he almost reminds me of Chris Wilder's overlapping centre backs at Sheffield United. He's actually a key part to our progressive play when moving the ball back to front, and I would expect rather soon to see opponent's man mark him with one of their forwards to stop this.

- Tielemans really is the midfielder general. Most of our play goes through him and he dictates play. 

- All of our wide play comes from our wing backs. 

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16 minutes ago, StriderHiryu said:

ud872a9xtkx51.jpg?width=640&height=626&c

 

^Pass map from the Braga game. You have to be careful with these as they don't often tell the whole story but in this case it does tell us quite a few things that are interesting about our new system.

 

- At times Maddison is almost played as a "false 9" IE he's the furthest player forward, but not a striker. He's playing to stretch defences around and make space for other players. He's also our most creative player as a result. 

- The other member of the two advanced midfielders / forwards behind our striker operate a lot more centrally than in the 4141. Both are encouraged to drift and play through the lines which makes picking them up very difficult. This is why we are making much higher quality chances recently. 

- Despite starting the game as a third centre back, Justin pushes up a lot as a spare man and ancillary attacking player. At times he almost reminds me of Chris Wilder's overlapping centre backs at Sheffield United. He's actually a key part to our progressive play when moving the ball back to front, and I would expect rather soon to see opponent's man mark him with one of their forwards to stop this.

- Tielemans really is the midfielder general. Most of our play goes through him and he dictates play. 

- All of our wide play comes from our wing backs. 

I noticed JJ's unusual position last night @StriderHiryu - almost an orthodox RB at times rather than RCB. I wondered if the plan was for him and Albrighton to double up on Galeno, who looked a real threat all night?

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30 minutes ago, Steve Earle said:

I noticed JJ's unusual position last night @StriderHiryu - almost an orthodox RB at times rather than RCB. I wondered if the plan was for him and Albrighton to double up on Galeno, who looked a real threat all night?

That is definitely possible, though I would contest if he was playing there to strictly double up, as his position was a lot more advanced. Compare that to the game against Leeds where we see Thomas relative position to the Braga game, and his position relative to Fuchs. This I would classify as a more obvious doubling up, although in this game it was Fuchs who seemed to be the spare man at the back more often than JJ.

 

But in the system the idea is definitely to prevent the opposition overloading our wide players 2v1 so it would certainly be in JJ's remit to support Albrighton in that regard, and not just bomb on with no ramifications.

 

ocogsx9egzw51.jpg

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This is how we lined up against Wolves, and I thought that tactically Rodgers got it spot on again. Wolves set up with a deep block and force teams to play in front of them, a tactic we use ourselves. So to exploit that knowledge, Rodgers opted for Praet and Maddison instead of Barnes and Under. And we were rewarded with a great performance by Praet who won the first penalty and Maddison though withdrawn first also had a good game. If you compare our play to Wolves, we were capable of playing and progressing the ball thanks to our technical players and whilst we might not have made too many clear cut opportunities, we won two penalties. Had we had that second one go in, it would have been game over.

 

Overall our tactics today were:

- Start with our technical players who can play in tight spaces.

- Get Praet and Maddison to drift to pull Wolves back three out of position.

- Force Wolves to push up as the game progressed, and then put on Harvey Barnes to exploit the gaps that appeared. (Barnes should have finished the game late on with a glorious chance).

- Put on a more physical presence at the back to win the physical duels when Wolves were desperate at the end.

 

I'm not going to call this out as a tactical masterpiece, but think it was a smart choice of personnel against Wolves. I felt that Wolves themselves created very little, but still proved to be very hard to break down and will consider themselves unlucky given the way the first penalty was given. But for me they need to take a leaf out of Leicester's book, we show the balance between being able to counter attack, but also our ability to play and makes things happen against a deep block.

 

Well played the Blues!

 

 

Wolves.thumb.PNG.7725b7040d619a9079bc588f8478897b.PNG

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Tactically he got it right today again. The key being not playing with width as aerially Wolves would and did dominate us of we tried to play crosses. Bringing in the creativity to try and be a little more cute and play through Wolves was imperative and those inside channels is where we caused damage with the quick one twos and interplay. We kept the ball really well for the first 75 minutes and then dropped deep and defended well towards the end when Wolves started to get into the game. 

 

I love this BR who knows when we need to be more pragmatic and when we need to go for the kill. 

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Good selection and starting formation today. Wolves actually played quite narrow for most of the game. Perhaps that was as a result of us nullifying their wider players mainly in the first half. 

That's credit to our own wide players but also we kept our shape well in the middle. Mendy was quite dominant along with Youri. 

 

I can see why he chose Maddison and Praet. Not only did they support Vardy when on the ball, but they kept narrow to stop their defenders coming up with the ball (like Fofana did for us). If we had started with Under and/or Barnes they'd have perhaps naturally gone out wide and allowed those channels to be targeted. Maddison himself was very disciplined - his turn on the ball and agility helps us out a lot even if it is a small thing, buys us time positiinally but also helps set up attacks. 

 

 

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I thought the decision to bring on Wes Morgan when he did, not only strengthened us in the air as they were starting to put more crosses and long balls in to our box, but also allowed Fuchs to move to wing back, in turn meaning Justin Could prevent Traore from getting any time on the ball at all. 

Edited by 1969
Correcting my poor punctuation
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In this 3-4-2-1/3-4-3 formation i’d like to see one winger (Cengiz or Barnes) and one playmaker (Praet or Maddison) in the two behind Vardy.

 

The odd game will require two playmakers like today, sometimes two wingers but most of the time I think 1 of each will give us the most flexibility.

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