20 more men of mainly Pakistani Muslim background found guilty of grooming, raping and abusing kids.

[Lionator]

3 hours ago, Col city fan said:

There’s a strong argument to say that Robinson is doing far more harm than good not only in relation to racism, but by deflecting attention away from what these ‘men’ are doing and onto himself. When Robinson becomes the spotlight, the real issue at hand gets put onto the back-row and the audience focus on the bloke on the stage. Like what’s happening in this thread. Personally I don’t care about Tommy fookin Robinson, about how big is house is or how much money he is. I do care that kids are being subjected to stuff which will adversely affect them their whole lives.

I'd rather listen to somebody like Maajid Nawaz who calls this sort of stuff out subjectively, in great detail and fairly than a Football Hooligan who's making a ton of money off of people who have brain cells the size of an amoeba. 

[Guest MattP]

1 hour ago, Lionator said:

I'd rather listen to somebody like Maajid Nawaz who calls this sort of stuff out subjectively, in great detail and fairly than a Football Hooligan who's making a ton of money off of people who have brain cells the size of an amoeba. 

Maajid is absolutely superb.

 

His interview where he says this IS a Muslim problem on LBC is tremendous. Incredible to think ten years ago he was being mocked for claiming this was going on (along with that evil columnist at the Guardian who claimed it was all made up) lost friends because he criticised Anjam Choudary - that really did show how just how normal this had become. 

 

He's one of my favourite pundits and I hope the liberal reformers do win out, I fear they won't but I really hope they do.

Edited 21 October 2018 by MattP

[urban.spaceman]

3 hours ago, fuchsntf said:

There has been documentaries over several channels.All Paper media have been reporting and discussing it

since at least the 1980s. Major magazines haven't let it go!!..Dave Allen the Irish comedien..subtlety dropped hints in his comedy half hour.1970s

This last 5 years the Catholic and other Relgious organisations to their credit have attacked it...

Information and reports. Pinging and reverberating around these organisations walls....Not just UK but other European states.

The  can has really  been ripped open...no hiding place anymore...,but I suppose it still goes on!!!

 

Like any religious sides of Peoples,I respect their beliefs,their perspectives.I have a close fratinity with many Islam,Buddists and Hindu lands,through friends,

Through my various distant long travels....But many are also being allowed to get away with known,vices,misendeamours,and criminal activities...

They hide behind close knit communities...This is picking out..on the single issue for purpose of argument.

This should not be seen as an discredit or demeaner of any religious movement,because they can only mirror what is outside their own facades.

But they should also be open to investigation into immoral/law abiding hypocrosy...

Because any church,temple,Mosque is only as moral and honest,law-abiding has its congregations and it's spiritual leaders..truth or hypocrisy allows!!

On the contrary Fuchs, I don’t think the coverage has been nearly enough. In fact it’s totally disjointed and fragmented as different scandals erupt everywhere in the Western world but there’s no organisation or press outlet willing to join the dots. It’s like what happened in Boston with Spotlight but on a much grander scale - it wasn’t until the newspaper investigation team started putting the pieces together that they discovered the big picture. And that was just Boston. 

 

I was watching that film with a friend of mine in Botswana. He had Irish parents but was born and has lived in Botswana his whole life. He told me when he was a kid in the 70/80s they had a Priest move from Ireland to Bots who was a big part of the expat community in Gaborone. He died in the 90s, but it wasn’t until 5 years ago that the Gardai arrived in Botswana to exume his body to retrieve his DNA... Which they successfully linked with the body of a 7 year old who was found murdered in Ireland in the late 60s. 

 

How much of this went on and still is going on? How big a scale is it? Which countries does the Catholic still have free reign in, where victims have even less a voice? We already know that the Vatican are perfectly willing to protect the people involved - Cardinal Law of Boston was brought to Rome before the authorities could get to him and was allowed to be part of the conclave that elected Ratzinger. 

 

I genuinely believe that more scandals are going to keep coming out and the Catholic Church will be disbanded in my lifetime. 

[fuchsntf]

15 minutes ago, urban.spaceman said:

On the contrary Fuchs, I don’t think the coverage has been nearly enough. In fact it’s totally disjointed and fragmented as different scandals erupt everywhere in the Western world but there’s no organisation or press outlet willing to join the dots. It’s like what happened in Boston with Spotlight but on a much grander scale - it wasn’t until the newspaper investigation team started putting the pieces together that they discovered the big picture. And that was just Boston. 

 

I was watching that film with a friend of mine in Botswana. He had Irish parents but was born and has lived in Botswana his whole life. He told me when he was a kid in the 70/80s they had a Priest move from Ireland to Bots who was a big part of the expat community in Gaborone. He died in the 90s, but it wasn’t until 5 years ago that the Gardai arrived in Botswana to exume his body to retrieve his DNA... Which they successfully linked with the body of a 7 year old who was found murdered in Ireland in the late 60s. 

 

How much of this went on and still is going on? How big a scale is it? Which countries does the Catholic still have free reign in, where victims have even less a voice? We already know that the Vatican are perfectly willing to protect the people involved - Cardinal Law of Boston was brought to Rome before the authorities could get to him and was allowed to be part of the conclave that elected Ratzinger. 

 

I genuinely believe that more scandals are going to keep coming out and the Catholic Church will be disbanded in my lifetime. 

I won't deny the scandals will keep on coming....but the level of denial even at the Vatican level,is no longer at the hide and you seek

Level ...!!!   All of our organisation of got some skeletons in their cupboard....believing one is worse because of them is somewhat naive.

I was born protestant,though I have taken on a different deliverance...so there is no love lost with RC and the scourges in its whole n deep history...

But.....Without going in for tit for tat,on man's acts under their birth or choice of idolising or the doing of acts under their "criminal"

Belief they are right,by faith....

There has also been  honest, true acts of daily work and projects,by various priests of their faiths and their frontline practitioners.....

And Yes RC have been a leading presence.....has in the modern world,there are more respectfull,peace-law  following Marjas,Mullahs,allahmas,

Asan,or Gurus..... 

Only Gangsters or hypocrites kill,rape abuse innocents of their own..then declare some type of injustice of others or a calling they can't deny..!!I

 

In their quest..of conversion....The murder,deaths...are usually done more to their own,and fresh converted,than any opposition....

[Nick]

6 hours ago, Col city fan said:

One of the differences in this case, unless I’m widely off the mark, is the alleged intimidation by the perpetrators, towards a wider group than just the children themselves. The article above states that the parents of some of the kids, who dared to report this stuff, were then targeted, such that the fear became endemic amongst parts of the local community.

My image of ‘other paedophiles’ so to speak, is of a secretive, closed collective who groom kids mainly online, have secret passwords, web-sites and the such like.

The examples we are seeing across the North of England is of a group who are almost brazen in what they are doing, affecting families with quite open hostility.

Apologies if this is tripe but it’s how I perceive it.

It’s not tripe it’s pretty much spot on but your point doesn’t disagree with my post in any way buddy.

[Guest Dirkster the Fox]

10 hours ago, Col city fan said:

There’s a strong argument to say that Robinson is doing far more harm than good not only in relation to racism, but by deflecting attention away from what these ‘men’ are doing and onto himself. When Robinson becomes the spotlight, the real issue at hand gets put onto the back-row and the audience focus on the bloke on the stage. Like what’s happening in this thread. Personally I don’t care about Tommy fookin Robinson, about how big is house is or how much money he is. I do care that kids are being subjected to stuff which will adversely affect them their whole lives.

"real issue at hand gets put onto the back-row and the audience focus on the bloke on the stage". 

 

TBF, like it or not, without his views/profile, this particular issue would be deliberately buried into the village newspapers. Plenty of evidence of this.

 

One of the many examples of this is the BBC held out for as long as they could (to give coverage), for the group of 7, then eventually announced as 8 Pakistani men who groomed/raped 300 girls in Oxford and still they only put it in on the "local" Oxford area web-pages.........and reluctantly:

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-oxfordshire-41608602

 

Should a "7 year long" aggressive group "routine, cynical and predatory sexual exploration" of vulnerable girls, only............eventually make it into local news????

 

So sorry, Tommy's stance/profile makes it/forces it into the news........rather than constantly buried away in a MSM political/religious black-out.

 

I do care that kids are being subjected to stuff which will adversely affect them their whole lives. So which do you want? Slate Tommy for making it news and highlighting the whole debate or without him (previously) these widespread atrocities would have barely been reported in the national MSM (for political/religious reasons)? 

 

 

[Voll Blau]

44 minutes ago, Dirkster the Fox said:

"real issue at hand gets put onto the back-row and the audience focus on the bloke on the stage". 

 

TBF, like it or not, without his views/profile, this particular issue would be deliberately buried into the village newspapers. Plenty of evidence of this.

 

One of the many examples of this is the BBC held out for as long as they could (to give coverage), for the group of 7, then eventually announced as 8 Pakistani men who groomed/raped 300 girls in Oxford and still they only put it in on the "local" Oxford area web-pages.........and reluctantly:

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-oxfordshire-41608602

 

Should a "7 year long" aggressive group "routine, cynical and predatory sexual exploration" of vulnerable girls, only............eventually make it into local news????

 

So sorry, Tommy's stance/profile makes it/forces it into the news........rather than constantly buried away in a MSM political/religious black-out.

 

I do care that kids are being subjected to stuff which will adversely affect them their whole lives. So which do you want? Slate Tommy for making it news and highlighting the whole debate or without him (previously) these widespread atrocities would have barely been reported in the national MSM (for political/religious reasons)? 

 

 

Oh God, am I really going to have to explain how Contempt of Court works and why "Tommy" is a complete self-serving plank in this thread too...

[Guest Dirkster the Fox]

4 minutes ago, Voll Blau said:

Oh God, am I really going to have to explain how Contempt of Court works and why "Tommy" is a complete self-serving plank in this thread too...

A rather condescending comment.

 

I don't think my post at any stage argued he is in the right for doing what he does, or that he is a pin up boy or to use your specific, is always legal.

 

I merely argue he is highlighting something, like it or not, that would be buried into MSM obscurity without his determination otherwise.

 

 

[Rob1742]

I used to know a very well respected  Muslim in the local community who believed  it was okay for girls to have sex as soon as they started to have periods. He would say that it’s just nature and once they had started it’s okay.

 

Unfortunately a number of them believe this sort of thing.

 

To say he was despicable was an understatement. I once went to see him and he had just put the phone down and looked physically shaken. I asked him what the problem was and he said that his son had just been on the phone to say his marriage wasn’t working out. I said “ well it won’t be will it, your shagging his wife” 

 

Not all Muslims for sure, but this was a high ranking one in the community, everyone looked up to him and he had no morals. 

 

Quite scary, I cut ties with him as soon as I possibly could. 

 

[inckley fox]

1 hour ago, Dirkster the Fox said:

"real issue at hand gets put onto the back-row and the audience focus on the bloke on the stage". 

 

TBF, like it or not, without his views/profile, this particular issue would be deliberately buried into the village newspapers. Plenty of evidence of this.

 

One of the many examples of this is the BBC held out for as long as they could (to give coverage), for the group of 7, then eventually announced as 8 Pakistani men who groomed/raped 300 girls in Oxford and still they only put it in on the "local" Oxford area web-pages.........and reluctantly:

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-oxfordshire-41608602

 

Should a "7 year long" aggressive group "routine, cynical and predatory sexual exploration" of vulnerable girls, only............eventually make it into local news????

 

So sorry, Tommy's stance/profile makes it/forces it into the news........rather than constantly buried away in a MSM political/religious black-out.

 

I do care that kids are being subjected to stuff which will adversely affect them their whole lives. So which do you want? Slate Tommy for making it news and highlighting the whole debate or without him (previously) these widespread atrocities would have barely been reported in the national MSM (for political/religious reasons)? 

 

 

The suggestion seems to be - and it's gaining traction on the right - that (i) there is a paedophilia epidemic in "the" Muslim community and (ii) there is government+media conspiracy to cover it up.

 

The furore over abuse in the Catholic Church is strongly associated with religious status because the offenders were directly employed by the Catholic Church, and they exploited that capacity in order to commit their atrocities. These crimes, on the other hand, don't appear to have anything to do with religion other than that in this particular case most offenders have a religion in common. The Islamic community largely abhors their actions just as any other community would, sexual deviance isn't especially an attribute of the average Muslim (if there is such a thing!) any more than it is of any other group and there is nothing in the doctrine of the belief, nor the culture of adhering to it, which promotes this sort of behaviour.

 

As for a cover-up, bouts of crime - regardless of the community (and of course there are many different communities which are Muslim, Christian, Hindu, Jewish etc. and a bit of all the aforementioned) - are just crimes of one hue or another committed by people. The religion itself has no part to play in it. They might indicate problems within a community but they don't indicate that the community or the building blocks on which it's based are a problem. This is where the problem with Robinson exists - he wants this to be an issue with Islam, rather than an issue in some communities which are largely Muslim. 

 

I didn't see people analysing the religious background of those who made the BBC, or media in general, an unsafe environment for young women / boys / children in the 1960s-80s, so I'm not sure why this has to be flagged up as an ethnic issue either, purely on account of it being more common in one community than another.

And obviously I'd disagree with liberal voices arguing that child prostitution etc. aren't problems in some largely Muslim communities because clearly they are, just as certain serious crimes in England are more common per capita among Christian and ethnically English people (again, if such a thing exists). My concern would be that this problem is considered to be an issue among the Islamic community as a whole, as a single homogeneous entity. I hope we don't go down the road of being perpetually on our guard when around Muslims, or even Irish Catholics, on the grounds that they might be (a) terrorists or (b) sex offenders.

 

I'd also argue that it's a bit hysterical to argue that Muslims are conspiratorially protected from negative coverage, especially while the Express, Sun and the Mail are still in circulation.

Edited 21 October 2018 by inckley fox

[Guest]

Those damn Muslims:

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-45935843?ocid=global_bbccom_email_21102018_top+news+stories

 

 

[CosbehFox]

On 21/10/2018 at 00:39, Leicester_Loyal said:

Definitely. I reckon it will come out in Birmingham eventually.

There’s a common pattern for smaller towns/cities because it’s easier to control for the gangs. Bigger cities have police force with large resources and councils have similar resources. The scenario in which the grooming begins is far easier to do in a smaller place as well. 

[Voll Blau]

10 hours ago, Dirkster the Fox said:

A rather condescending comment.

 

I don't think my post at any stage argued he is in the right for doing what he does, or that he is a pin up boy or to use your specific, is always legal.

 

I merely argue he is highlighting something, like it or not, that would be buried into MSM obscurity without his determination otherwise.

 

 

Except that's absolute bollocks isn't it? Literally every case of this kind has been reported on once reporting restrictions have been lifted.

 

As for something "only" being deemed worthy of being local news? Well, if every story about a paedo/paedos being sent down was deemed worthy of being national news, then that's all we'd ever see. Go on any local paper's website most days and you'll see those kind of stories. However, while not every grooming gang sentencing/verdict is covered at national level, I believe the national media has (rightly) many times covered the issue as a matter for national discussion, which it is.

[yorkie1999]

On 20/10/2018 at 17:13, MattP said:

@Strokes has already said it but some of the sentences are beyond belief.

 

How can you be found guilty of multiple counts of rape, trafficking, supplying drugs to an abducted child and be sentenced to just a few years?? Crazy.

 

One small thing to mention as well as its very important, Tommy Robinson often says things that need saying, but his behaviour in reporting on this case nearly let every single one of these animals go free because he nearly caused a mistrial after being warned not to report on it - the law is sacrosanct and it's so so important in cases like this it is upheld.

Personally i believe that he was purposely trying to undermine the court cases by reporting on them. He knew what the outcome would have been, as he'd done for it before, he's ended up with a couple of months in jail and 2 million quid in donations as well as the backing of half the americans, plus if it had gone wrong for the prosecutors and the peodo's were set free, he'd have had a bigger story to rant about, namely, the British justice system is corrupt for freeing criminal perverts on a technicality as well as then having the opportunity to pursue them.  

[The Doctor]

13 hours ago, Dirkster the Fox said:

"real issue at hand gets put onto the back-row and the audience focus on the bloke on the stage". 

 

TBF, like it or not, without his views/profile, this particular issue would be deliberately buried into the village newspapers. Plenty of evidence of this.

 

One of the many examples of this is the BBC held out for as long as they could (to give coverage), for the group of 7, then eventually announced as 8 Pakistani men who groomed/raped 300 girls in Oxford and still they only put it in on the "local" Oxford area web-pages.........and reluctantly:

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-oxfordshire-41608602

 

Should a "7 year long" aggressive group "routine, cynical and predatory sexual exploration" of vulnerable girls, only............eventually make it into local news????

 

So sorry, Tommy's stance/profile makes it/forces it into the news........rather than constantly buried away in a MSM political/religious black-out.

 

I do care that kids are being subjected to stuff which will adversely affect them their whole lives. So which do you want? Slate Tommy for making it news and highlighting the whole debate or without him (previously) these widespread atrocities would have barely been reported in the national MSM (for political/religious reasons)? 

 

 

All "Tommy's" stance and actions do is risk letting abusers off on the basis of a mistrial (or, a retrial at the cost of thousands to the tax payer). A cynic might suggest he wants that because he doesn't actually give a crap about abused children (witness his defence of EDL member Richard Price who was found to possess child pornography) and abusers getting away with it suits his agenda, but let's be clear - his work does nothing to bring about these trials in the first place, nor does it aid the course of justice in any way, nor does it even mean coverage given the media immediately reports on it once reporting restrictions are lifted.

[Guest]

As I pointed out above.

 

Paedos, groomers, abusers are not limited to one race or one religion. They are all wrong. all bad and all need punishing. 

 

Making this a race issue is the stupidest line of all.

[Babylon]

13 hours ago, Dirkster the Fox said:

A rather condescending comment.

 

I don't think my post at any stage argued he is in the right for doing what he does, or that he is a pin up boy or to use your specific, is always legal.

 

I merely argue he is highlighting something, like it or not, that would be buried into MSM obscurity without his determination otherwise.

 

 

Absolute ****ing tripe, it was already headline news before that bellend even got involved. I've previously posted umpteen newspaper front covers, website links, documentaries that all came out a long time ago. The reason it went quiet it down to the reporting restrictions he decided to ignore.

 

Laughable.

[CosbehFox]

1 hour ago, FIF said:

As I pointed out above.

 

Paedos, groomers, abusers are not limited to one race or one religion. They are all wrong. all bad and all need punishing. 

 

Making this a race issue is the stupidest line of all.

It’s an institutional thing isn’t it?

 

If it’s not religion; it’s a corporation like the BBC assisting a monster or sports coaches having available unrestricted access to children.

 

It’s all about power hierarchies - there’s always been alleged accusations about foreign aid workers and you have plenty of rich men off to South East Asia every year to take advantage of children. I can think of Jersey children home cases too as well. 

 

Very, very sad and we won’t get to the edge of it all. It has to be recognised that is a gang mentality what allows this and there is a common strand which unites them. However, the common strand isn’t the same from gang to gang. 

Edited 22 October 2018 by Cardiff_Fox

[fuchsntf]

17 hours ago, Rob1742 said:

I used to know a very well respected  Muslim in the local community who believed  it was okay for girls to have sex as soon as they started to have periods. He would say that it’s just nature and once they had started it’s okay.

 

Unfortunately a number of them believe this sort of thing.

 

To say he was despicable was an understatement. I once went to see him and he had just put the phone down and looked physically shaken. I asked him what the problem was and he said that his son had just been on the phone to say his marriage wasn’t working out. I said “ well it won’t be will it, your shagging his wife” 

 

Not all Muslims for sure, but this was a high ranking one in the community, everyone looked up to him and he had no morals. 

 

Quite scary, I cut ties with him as soon as I possibly could. 

 

Jesus then your Atheist and Christian friends,must be causing you real problems...or are goes already cut..

[RonnieTodger]

Those sentences are absolutely sickening. 

[urban.spaceman]

 

[Rob1742]

On 22/10/2018 at 16:17, fuchsntf said:

Jesus then your Atheist and Christian friends,must be causing you real problems...or are goes already cut..

None of my friends want to shag underage girls, and I am not aware of any of them shagging their sons wives, so I think it’s fair to come to the conclusion it was only this certain individual that I wanted to cut ties with. 

[fuchsntf]

23 minutes ago, Rob1742 said:

None of my friends want to shag underage girls, and I am not aware of any of them shagging their sons wives, so I think it’s fair to come to the conclusion it was only this certain individual that I wanted to cut ties with. 

Good strong honest answer....be proud!!...

[sm1]

This is far more widespread then people know. Having worked for youth services over a decade ago,  it was quite well known that paedophile gangs were targeting vulnerable girls,  mostly at care homes. It was all sweeped under the carpet by the police, youth & social services because of the "ethnicity" of the perpetrators. This was until the Rotherham case, about 6-7yrs ago,  when the truth started to get publicised. This abuse runs deep and has been going on for decades all over Britain. Leicester & a lot of other cities are not immune from this. 

[Dr The Singh]

It's already happened in Leicester but just not widely reported infact it lead to people taking matters intonthere own hands as the police and authorities were seen to be very slow to react.  Alternative media sources have massively reported it.