AlloverthefloorYesNdidi Posted 16 December 2018 Posted 16 December 2018 4 minutes ago, Matt said: Chilwell, Mendy, but is that just a natural progression? Obviously Puel has gave them that chance, that platform and you have to credit him for that but is the improvement necessarily down to him? Could be debated till we go round in circles like everything I guess. So Chilwell has progressed naturally, but the players who havent progressed have stalled unnaturally.... due to interference from Puel? Puel is not perfect, but do we need to whitewash over his achievements here?
Corky Posted 16 December 2018 Posted 16 December 2018 3 minutes ago, AlloverthefloorYesNdidi said: So Chilwell has progressed naturally, but the players who havent progressed have stalled unnaturally.... due to interference from Puel? Puel is not perfect, but do we need to whitewash over his achievements here? We normally give the credit to other people. Pearson's great escape was Cambiasso, Ranieri's title win was Pearson.
Matt Posted 16 December 2018 Posted 16 December 2018 7 minutes ago, AlloverthefloorYesNdidi said: So Chilwell has progressed naturally, but the players who havent progressed have stalled unnaturally.... due to interference from Puel? Puel is not perfect, but do we need to whitewash over his achievements here? The players that have stalled simply can't play Puel's style imo. For me, you make the best out of what you've got, you get the best out of what you've got, be flexible enough to do that is all I ask, until they've either been moved on or replaced - not gonna happen overnight and I understand that but as I say, get the best out of what you've got and be flexible enough to do that until you have the tools to play in his style in an effective way. Do I like Puel's style? No, even if he had the players to play his style I still think it'd be pretty poor, but the fact we havn't got the assets to play in that way compounds the misery.
Farrington fox Posted 16 December 2018 Posted 16 December 2018 2 hours ago, Stoopid said: His embarrassing dive, his reaction after the Spurs game, his tendency to go missing when things aren't going his way... Just think his England call-up and increased attention of being in the Prem has gone to his head a tiny bit. Still think he can be a great player though. Looked like he couldn’t be bothered yesterday, probably why he was substituted
Stadt Posted 16 December 2018 Posted 16 December 2018 How has Mendy improved? He’s just not been injured so can actually play
AlloverthefloorYesNdidi Posted 16 December 2018 Posted 16 December 2018 33 minutes ago, Matt said: The players that have stalled simply can't play Puel's style imo. For me, you make the best out of what you've got, you get the best out of what you've got, be flexible enough to do that is all I ask, until they've either been moved on or replaced - not gonna happen overnight and I understand that but as I say, get the best out of what you've got and be flexible enough to do that until you have the tools to play in his style in an effective way. Do I like Puel's style? No, even if he had the players to play his style I still think it'd be pretty poor, but the fact we havn't got the assets to play in that way compounds the misery. Everyone is pretty much on agreement it seems with the major issues We like whats happening with Chilwell, Ricardo doing well on the other side. Those are players that suit what Puel wants. As does Maguire. We really should be putting Evans along with him, why Puel doesnt I dont know Where we fall apart is central midfield. There is no movement to match Chilly, Ricardo, Vardy's capabilities. This is where we will fail to compete, and Puel knows this Ndidi has clearly been told to get more forward, support the attack, shoot more, problem is he's not so good at this right now So Puel knows the problem same as us. And we all agree on that cm pairing having no creativity and this is our main problem. So why blame the manager for that? He agrees with us as evinced by ndidi clearly trying to contribute more Silva was brought in to do that, but apparently not fancied, anyone most on here hate him, as does Puel it seems If you dont like Puel's system, thats fair enough. But imagine more players suited coming in and improving us like Ricardo? If we sort out that midfield and bring in a striker to really compete with Vardy, get Evans clicking with Maguire... We're really not that far off and I can see how under Puel it could work well We just need a couple more windows Pep had 3 windows before he got where he wanted and started with a high level team already Puel has had 2 and started with us in a state I really think unless things go south after Christmas there is no need to write him off until after the summer (if we remain mid table( top 10 should be realistically aimed for) And we need to do business in Jan. But we need to offload players
Dan Posted 16 December 2018 Posted 16 December 2018 Chilwell has for sure, he's the biggest one. I've also put Mendy and Amartey. I think Amartey looked a bit better than before and actually became a viable option at right back, and Mendy's held down a place in the team when nobody expected him to although I think how good he's been is debatable. Gray's work rate has probably improved slightly but nothing else.
Leicester_Loyal Posted 16 December 2018 Posted 16 December 2018 Chilly, and Maddison has been a great signing. Medy looks a lot better too. Other than that though, I wouldn't say any of them have improved.
Dan Posted 16 December 2018 Posted 16 December 2018 Refer the 6 who voted Ndidi to the help with PCs thread as there's clearly no way they've actually voted for him on purpose.
Captain... Posted 16 December 2018 Posted 16 December 2018 It doesn’t matter how many players have improved it’s a team game and the team has gone backwards, individual abilities are being nullified by a formation and style that doesn’t suit them.
AlloverthefloorYesNdidi Posted 16 December 2018 Posted 16 December 2018 24 minutes ago, Captain... said: It doesn’t matter how many players have improved it’s a team game and the team has gone backwards, individual abilities are being nullified by a formation and style that doesn’t suit them. Have to disagree here Sticking to a style that "suited" many of these players ended up in the team going backwards The limitations of our squad was known The progression in style has shown us exactly where our limitations are and shown us the path forward Eg. Ndidi was great for us coming in, with our old style. After the old Ranieri style started to fail, for the 2nd time, under Shakey, we brought in Puel and under Puel just how poor a passer and retainer of the ball Ndidi can be has become more obvious as our style has progressed Under Ranners it was hard to see how to improve, nothing was working 2nd season Under Puel we can see where the team needs improving and if we can buy well in the right areas I can see things starting to click
Captain... Posted 16 December 2018 Posted 16 December 2018 6 hours ago, AlloverthefloorYesNdidi said: Have to disagree here Sticking to a style that "suited" many of these players ended up in the team going backwards The limitations of our squad was known The progression in style has shown us exactly where our limitations are and shown us the path forward Eg. Ndidi was great for us coming in, with our old style. After the old Ranieri style started to fail, for the 2nd time, under Shakey, we brought in Puel and under Puel just how poor a passer and retainer of the ball Ndidi can be has become more obvious as our style has progressed Under Ranners it was hard to see how to improve, nothing was working 2nd season Under Puel we can see where the team needs improving and if we can buy well in the right areas I can see things starting to click We can see where the team needs to improve: We need a goalkeeper that is a good shot stopper, play sweeper keeper be comfortable on the ball and able to play long accurate passes under pressure. We need 2 mobile ball playing centre backs that can cover our marauding full backs and have the intelligence to cover the space with the double pivot in midfield. We have the full backs for the formation, although no back up. We need at least one more defensive midfielder Mendy is doing ok although offers very little going forward, Ndidi is too sloppy in possession to play this formation we need another Mendy but with Ndidi’s athleticism and to be a lot more forward thinking and able to pass. Our front 4 is not clicking, Maddison is doing well but we need a striker that can hold the ball up and bring others into play we need players better in possession than Albrighton and Gray and Ghezzal is the right kind of player but so far is not good enough so let’s say we need another wide player. Thats 6 new players, but not just 6 decent players but 6 players that are very good at multiple disciplines the kind that will cost 20-30m each. This formation and style requires precision accuracy intelligence patience and this manager needs players that will motivate themselves.
Bob Weasel Fox Posted 16 December 2018 Posted 16 December 2018 Chilwell and Mendy only I would say others have regressed under his style
Tom12345 Posted 17 December 2018 Posted 17 December 2018 23 hours ago, StriderHiryu said: Chilwell is the poster boy, he’s come on leaps and bounds. Gray IMO has improved but nowhere near as much. Mendy was the forgotten man so I’d count that as improvement. Vardy also improved despite not scoring as many as last season. His all round game is much better now. But overall as a team as the league table shows we have not improved. Chilwell has had massive improvement since he became a regular. I feel though there is still a thing or two he can learn from Fuchs (as he did before), particularly in terms of timing and range of his crosses. I think he is a great player in the making but I think it would benefit him by giving Fuchs a run in the side given his great performance against Palace and Chilwell need to feel his position is under threat a little before bringing him back into the side. Mentally, I think he has a tendency to blame his teammates when he could do better with reviewing his own mistakes. He has been improving but he needs a little bit more guidance from the older players in the squad.
MC Prussian Posted 17 December 2018 Posted 17 December 2018 Chilwell is the only one I can think of who has gotten considerably better over the past few weeks and months. Including James on that list is rather odd, has no place being mentioned due to his injury crisis. King hasn't played first team football for us this season and probably never will again. Others are simply too old to be able to show any kind of improvement per se (Fuchs, Morgan, Simpson, Okazaki). And I'm not so sure about Gray having improved, as well as Mendy. Both play more often, but that's about it. In the best case, they are stagnating. All in all, an underwhelming, if not disappointing state of things.
Babylon Posted 17 December 2018 Posted 17 December 2018 18 hours ago, Captain... said: It doesn’t matter how many players have improved it’s a team game and the team has gone backwards, individual abilities are being nullified by a formation and style that doesn’t suit them. Playing the formation that "suits" these players, sees us in the relegation zone. It didn't work, it was just as bad if not worse than what we're watching now. I just don't get all this "gone backwards" stuff like people have forgotten how utterly shit we were under Ranieri and to a lesser extent Shakespeare.
Captain... Posted 17 December 2018 Posted 17 December 2018 24 minutes ago, Babylon said: Playing the formation that "suits" these players, sees us in the relegation zone. It didn't work, it was just as bad if not worse than what we're watching now. I just don't get all this "gone backwards" stuff like people have forgotten how utterly shit we were under Ranieri and to a lesser extent Shakespeare. It’s gone backwards from the exciting team that Puel created when he first arrived. There is a balance between playing an incisive passing game and passing for the sake of it and being forced into passing to players that are not comfortable on the ball by an opposing team that take half an hour to work us out. We’ve gone backwards from last season when we were controlling games and dominating possession and shooting stats and not getting the results. We will never be successful at this style/ formation whilst we have players that cannot look after the ball and lose the ball cheaply while our full backs are on the overlap. You cannot carry a single player everyone has to be comfortable on the ball and move intelligently to create space for themselves and others. That is a big ask of even the best players in the league, look how Arsenal struggled playing this style for years underachieving and flattering to deceive because everyone has to be on their game all game and can’t make up for sloppy play by running more and trying harder. 3 minutes of sideways passing followed by cheaply losing the ball and offering up a chance to the opposition is not smart football. You can argue we play better football now and the football has technically improved, that individual players have improved, but as a team I see little improvement and that is down to individuals playing that are not suited to/do not understand the formation.
AlloverthefloorYesNdidi Posted 17 December 2018 Posted 17 December 2018 1 minute ago, Captain... said: It’s gone backwards from the exciting team that Puel created when he first arrived. There is a balance between playing an incisive passing game and passing for the sake of it and being forced into passing to players that are not comfortable on the ball by an opposing team that take half an hour to work us out. We’ve gone backwards from last season when we were controlling games and dominating possession and shooting stats and not getting the results. We will never be successful at this style/ formation whilst we have players that cannot look after the ball and lose the ball cheaply while our full backs are on the overlap. You cannot carry a single player everyone has to be comfortable on the ball and move intelligently to create space for themselves and others. That is a big ask of even the best players in the league, look how Arsenal struggled playing this style for years underachieving and flattering to deceive because everyone has to be on their game all game and can’t make up for sloppy play by running more and trying harder. 3 minutes of sideways passing followed by cheaply losing the ball and offering up a chance to the opposition is not smart football. You can argue we play better football now and the football has technically improved, that individual players have improved, but as a team I see little improvement and that is down to individuals playing that are not suited to/do not understand the formation. Its easy to say ''play an incisive passign game'' You think the choice is to not play an incisive passing game?
Captain... Posted 17 December 2018 Posted 17 December 2018 2 minutes ago, AlloverthefloorYesNdidi said: Its easy to say ''play an incisive passign game'' You think the choice is to not play an incisive passing game? Maybe that was poor wording, there is a balance between playing incisive forward passes creating openings and overloading key areas and keeping the ball playing it around in the middle and across the back moving the opposition around. We are trying to play a passing/possession game and you can’t play a killer pass every time so you need to work the openings with quick passing and movement, sometimes you have to go backwards to go forwards. Keeping the ball is good if something comes out of it. Even if all you are doing is frustrating the opposition starving them of possession. If you consistently make 10/15 passes then lose the ball in a dangerous area you might as well have just pumped it forwards for Vardy to chase. At the moment we are doing the worst of both worlds committing men forwards whilst passing backwards isolating our weaker passers and make it easier for the opposition to put them under pressure. Losing possession trying to play a killer ball in the opposition half it is forgivable but it is the amount of times a simple pass under no pressure goes awry creating a chance for the opposition that makes me think we cannot carry on with this style without replacing half the team.
Babylon Posted 17 December 2018 Posted 17 December 2018 1 minute ago, Captain... said: It’s gone backwards from the exciting team that Puel created when he first arrived. There is a balance between playing an incisive passing game and passing for the sake of it and being forced into passing to players that are not comfortable on the ball by an opposing team that take half an hour to work us out. We’ve gone backwards from last season when we were controlling games and dominating possession and shooting stats and not getting the results. We will never be successful at this style/ formation whilst we have players that cannot look after the ball and lose the ball cheaply while our full backs are on the overlap. You cannot carry a single player everyone has to be comfortable on the ball and move intelligently to create space for themselves and others. That is a big ask of even the best players in the league, look how Arsenal struggled playing this style for years underachieving and flattering to deceive because everyone has to be on their game all game and can’t make up for sloppy play by running more and trying harder. 3 minutes of sideways passing followed by cheaply losing the ball and offering up a chance to the opposition is not smart football. You can argue we play better football now and the football has technically improved, that individual players have improved, but as a team I see little improvement and that is down to individuals playing that are not suited to/do not understand the formation. Depends what you're comparing against really. We were abject this time two years ago with 4 wins in 24 games, compared, we've improved on that. Against the less teams we were pretty diabolical under CS as well. Have we seen enough improvement over the course of him being here. Perhaps not.
Wymsey Posted 17 December 2018 Posted 17 December 2018 Chilwell. And Amartey, but for some reason he's out of Puel's plans. Am surprised that Iborra isn't playing much, really, as he seems to have the type of style that would suit Puel's approach.
Bert Posted 17 December 2018 Posted 17 December 2018 On 16/12/2018 at 10:59, Stoopid said: His embarrassing dive, his reaction after the Spurs game, his tendency to go missing when things aren't going his way... Just think his England call-up and increased attention of being in the Prem has gone to his head a tiny bit. Still think he can be a great player though. Said ages back that since his England call up, his form dipped and he got a bit ahead of himself. No doubting he’s a great player but still a long way to go to reach the level that not only the fans but he thinks he’s at. Chilwell and Amartey the only two to have improved under Puel.
Bert Posted 17 December 2018 Posted 17 December 2018 5 minutes ago, Wymeswold fox said: Chilwell. And Amartey, but for some reason he's out of Puel's plans. Am surprised that Iborra isn't playing much, really, as he seems to have the type of style that would suit Puel's approach. That would be because of his broken leg.
Babylon Posted 17 December 2018 Posted 17 December 2018 3 minutes ago, Bert said: That would be because of his broken leg.
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