HighPeakFox Posted 3 February 2019 Posted 3 February 2019 Don't pass the ball to the opposition in a vulnerable position.
Dames Posted 3 February 2019 Posted 3 February 2019 4 minutes ago, Izzy said: Stringer asked Puel about this after the game and why it was becoming a trend. Puel's answer seemed to suggest that the players are giving the opposition too much respect and are therefore starting games on the back foot. Fvck all to do with the atmosphere, warm up, motivation or any of that. Just a young team who are lacking a bit of self belief and confidence to start games by taking it straight to the opposition. They show too much respect because the managers tactics involve them being patient in all aspects of play, that means standing off instead of diving in etc. Only positive from this is that its solved the issue with the red cards we were getting regularly earlier in the season/back end of last. Its his job as a manager to change that and to tell his players, to encourage/motivate his players to play without fear and show the opposition no respect and pressure them from the very first minute.
Cadno'r Cymoedd Posted 3 February 2019 Posted 3 February 2019 3 hours ago, Dr The Singh said: Bring back big Dan Amartey He did well in the first few minutes at Old Trafford. ? But seriously, will be good when he is back in the squad though...
Izzy Posted 3 February 2019 Posted 3 February 2019 2 minutes ago, Dames said: They show too much respect because the managers tactics involve them being patient in all aspects of play, that means standing off instead of diving in etc. Only positive from this is that its solved the issue with the red cards we were getting regularly earlier in the season/back end of last. Its his job as a manager to change that and to tell his players, to encourage/motivate his players to play without fear and show the opposition no respect and pressure them from the very first minute. He can tell the players that all day long but when one of our youngsters first comes up against world class players like Pogba, Sanchez or Salah, only they can decide if they show no respect or feel no fear. Showing no respect, no fear and having the confidence to start games aggressively and on the front foot comes with experience. And we’re still a relatively young and inexperienced team.
l444ry Posted 3 February 2019 Posted 3 February 2019 4 hours ago, StriderHiryu said: This is a very difficult one to solve. It happens so much now that it's creating a self perpetuating cycle. The players are thinking about it so much, that it's bound to happen. Take today for example, Ricardo who is normally very dependable with the ball had an absolute brain fart and played a suicidal ball into a dangerous area. I'm not sure as a coach you can do much about questionable decision making like that. If we just pump it long all the time, then we won't improve as a team. We do start slowly, so I'd suggest putting players like Albrighton and Hamza in from the start who have high energy, but we have still conceded early when we have tried this in the past. Maybe the way to sort it out is to be pragmatic at the start of games. Just concentrate on keeping the ball without necessarily developing attacking play until we get 20 minutes into the game or so. But I can't see this going down too well with the fans! This is why we are conceding early. Perhaps they should be turning the opposition and playing the game in their half until the game settles down. Even Step 4-semi-pro sides know this basic tactical fact.
Dames Posted 3 February 2019 Posted 3 February 2019 3 minutes ago, Izzy said: He can tell the players that all day long but when one of our youngsters first comes up against world class players like Pogba, Sanchez or Salah, only they can decide if they show no respect or feel no fear. Showing no respect, no fear and having the confidence to start games aggressively and on the front foot comes with experience. And we’re still a relatively young and inexperienced team. I’d be more inclined to agree and i’d have less complaints about Puels management if this was only a minor issue against the bigger clubs. The argument loses a lot of credibility when the same issues are happening against teams that are in around or below us - In some cases by a few leagues. I think the players are scared of Puel more than the opposition if i’m honest. The way he loses his shit and gets animated on the sidelines when a player misplaces a pass concerns me, it adds needless pressure. A lot of these guys just want to be in the first team playing regularly (as well as picking up associated bonuses) so will be doing everything they can to adhere to his methods to avoid being dropped. Sometimes you do need to give your players a rocket but also you need to encourage them, more often than not i see him turning his back when a player loses the ball from trying something ambitious or making a mistake when perhaps it would be better to encourage them. He’s a man under pressure and he’s letting that filter down onto the team.
StriderHiryu Posted 3 February 2019 Posted 3 February 2019 1 minute ago, l444ry said: This is why we are conceding early. Perhaps they should be turning the opposition and playing the game in their half until the game settles down. Even Step 4-semi-pro sides know this basic tactical fact. That's why we were so good in the title winning season - we always started fast and actually only started counter attacking after the first 20 minutes or so after rattling the opposition. But this team is much younger and naive and perhaps the manager is worried that we will be like the Wolves game where we get too emotional and chase the ball instead of keeping shape? That said I would like us to try the fast start strategy and get on top of the game again. It does feel like we are too passive and too focused on keeping shape to start the game. Surprisingly though that the mistakes are often made by the more experienced members of the team such as Morgan, Magire, Evans, Mendy, Ricardo today, etc. Hard to work out exactly why that is.
La-li-lu-le-lo Posted 3 February 2019 Posted 3 February 2019 Wasn’t there an article recently about Puels pre-match day long laborious training sessions? Perhaps that’s the issue, why were so slow on match days?
kingston_fox Posted 3 February 2019 Posted 3 February 2019 4 hours ago, peach0000 said: We need to attack from the start rather than sitting back and allowing teams to come forwards. It's pretty much this... We try to stay compact, defend deep and control the game except we're not very good and just invite pressure on ourselves until we screw up and concede. Around the 20min mark we find our feet and have the confidence to impose ourselves on the game.
StriderHiryu Posted 3 February 2019 Posted 3 February 2019 6 minutes ago, Dames said: He’s a man under pressure and he’s letting that filter down onto the team. Certainly possible. But I tell you what - booing the team and manager doesn't help with this. I know people are unhappy with what they are seeing but given we have such a young team it just adds more pressure on their shoulders. There is a separate thread about booing so no need to go into it here, but just to say that the energy from the crowd transmits to players at home. When we won the title and did well in the Champions League, the crowd played a huge part. But I'd also argue that when we've been flat (some of Pearson's games when we got promoted, post title win, today, etc) that it makes our players nervous and more likely to concede too.
vanity Posted 3 February 2019 Posted 3 February 2019 We take deep breaths and relax so as to try to stop choking? Maybe we get possession, send it back to Kasper and have him keep possession with our backline for 15 minutes?
vanity Posted 3 February 2019 Posted 3 February 2019 5 minutes ago, La-li-lu-le-lo said: Wasn’t there an article recently about Puels pre-match day long laborious training sessions? Perhaps that’s the issue, why were so slow on match days? Not true in the end. Besides, we aren't slow. We are making mistakes. We are choking, basically. Letting nerves affect us until we are down, then we start playing.
Arkie Bennett Posted 3 February 2019 Posted 3 February 2019 Get Pearson in to manage us for the first 10 minutes of every match.
fuchsntf Posted 3 February 2019 Posted 3 February 2019 Just now, Dames said: They show too much respect because the managers tactics involve them being patient in all aspects of play, that means standing off instead of diving in etc. Only positive from this is that its solved the issue with the red cards we were getting regularly earlier in the season/back end of last. Its his job as a manager to change that and to tell his players, to encourage/motivate his players to play without fear and show the opposition no respect and pressure them from the very first minute. Absolute twaddle...Puel is not Darth vader...The players have to stand up by themselves...Individual mistakes,even if playing a cautionary first 15-20 minutes,are down to that player...It's a skill and mind-set,a discipline that has to be within you.One can lose it...It depends if you can bring those mistakes under control. The mistakes leading to goals have been initiated from in Front of the defensive line....so midfield... When we miss chances,or fail to convert....there are no hate-crusades like that of Mendy, or Ricardo at the beginning of his city career.!! We could say this is our learning season..New players aptitude and time to settle on PL pace,and learning from those 5-12 had mistakes. Like it or not..this attacking group of 6 has a striking force or defending a forward space,from being turned over,are still new to each other,when they do cock up, it leaves our CBs under pressure and having to back track and turn against top forwards ready on the front foot..... our mistakes are presently too regular,and leaving our Bline in trouble.....But a manager can't control that,like he can't give Nacho the inner confidence & Discipline...He can only prepare,give them a base to work on,the quality of skill and mind-set they the players have to bring to the table... You would look a bit silly,if you kept blaming the manager for your own sloppy work.....!!! Whether he's good,or a twat!!
l444ry Posted 3 February 2019 Posted 3 February 2019 2 minutes ago, StriderHiryu said: That's why we were so good in the title winning season - we always started fast and actually only started counter attacking after the first 20 minutes or so after rattling the opposition. But this team is much younger and naive and perhaps the manager is worried that we will be like the Wolves game where we get too emotional and chase the ball instead of keeping shape? That said I would like us to try the fast start strategy and get on top of the game again. It does feel like we are too passive and too focused on keeping shape to start the game. Surprisingly though that the mistakes are often made by the more experienced members of the team such as Morgan, Magire, Evans, Mendy, Ricardo today, etc. Hard to work out exactly why that is. If Ricardo had just clipped the ball up the line there would have been no goal. Furthermore, Vardy would have loved that. Therein lies our problem in a nutshell. Puel prefers us to pass from the first minute to the last with all the risks that entails.
StriderHiryu Posted 3 February 2019 Posted 3 February 2019 Just now, l444ry said: If Ricardo had just clipped the ball up the line there would have been no goal. Furthermore, Vardy would have loved that. Therein lies our problem in a nutshell. Puel prefers us to pass from the first minute to the last with all the risks that entails. Sure, but passing is how to improve as a team. When Guardiola first came to England in his first game against us we beat them 4-2 with Stones getting tormented by Vardy over and over. But they stuck with the approach, made some small adjustments and the next season won the title with 100 points. Can't defend Ricardo's actions for the goal, that was a stupid pass to make, but building from the back is what top teams do. Even the England national team do it now, which is why Maguire starts for us and one reason we got to the Semi Finals for the first time since 1990. Because we don't just hoof it at every sign of danger and concede possession over and over to opposition with technical players who will punish you. Even if Puel goes, I guarantee you the next manager will also have us playing out from the back. Brendan Rogers was notorious for doing it with Swansea. So just having the centre backs hoof it all day long is not the answer, that's why post title win we struggled, because under Ranieri in 16/17 we just played long balls against teams that were sitting back.
l444ry Posted 3 February 2019 Posted 3 February 2019 2 minutes ago, StriderHiryu said: Sure, but passing is how to improve as a team. When Guardiola first came to England in his first game against us we beat them 4-2 with Stones getting tormented by Vardy over and over. But they stuck with the approach, made some small adjustments and the next season won the title with 100 points. Can't defend Ricardo's actions for the goal, that was a stupid pass to make, but building from the back is what top teams do. Even the England national team do it now, which is why Maguire starts for us and one reason we got to the Semi Finals for the first time since 1990. Because we don't just hoof it at every sign of danger and concede possession over and over to opposition with technical players who will punish you. Even if Puel goes, I guarantee you the next manager will also have us playing out from the back. Brendan Rogers was notorious for doing it with Swansea. So just having the centre backs hoof it all day long is not the answer, that's why post title win we struggled, because under Ranieri in 16/17 we just played long balls against teams that were sitting back. You've made giant strides from the original point of conceding early goals and turned it into *hoofing* or passing a a team strategy. Comparing us with Guardiola's Man City is also strange as they do it with speed whereas we are ponderous. Whichever way you look at it Puel has to take responsibility for what is happening. .
La-li-lu-le-lo Posted 3 February 2019 Posted 3 February 2019 14 minutes ago, vanity said: Not true in the end. Besides, we aren't slow. We are making mistakes. We are choking, basically. Letting nerves affect us until we are down, then we start playing. Surely it can be addressed though? It’s ludicrous that it keeps happening? The goal today was ridiculously avoidable, all Ricardo has to do it’s make a sensible pass.... most of the goals like you’ve pointed out are a result of us choking.... stupid little errors....
Dames Posted 3 February 2019 Posted 3 February 2019 17 minutes ago, StriderHiryu said: Certainly possible. But I tell you what - booing the team and manager doesn't help with this. I know people are unhappy with what they are seeing but given we have such a young team it just adds more pressure on their shoulders. There is a separate thread about booing so no need to go into it here, but just to say that the energy from the crowd transmits to players at home. When we won the title and did well in the Champions League, the crowd played a huge part. But I'd also argue that when we've been flat (some of Pearson's games when we got promoted, post title win, today, etc) that it makes our players nervous and more likely to concede too. I agree the booing doesn’t help but at the same time the team have been pretty poor at home for about 12 months now. Fans are going to be frustrated and patience is going to be thin. Its a two way relationship and as fans we should try harder to cut the players some slack even if we disagree with the mangerial decisions.
coolhandfox Posted 3 February 2019 Posted 3 February 2019 Player look afraid to lose the ball, which results in us over playing the ball at the back in dangerous areas. With players not up to it technically, like Wilf and Ndidi in midfield it's asking for trouble.
Blue ROI Posted 3 February 2019 Posted 3 February 2019 The promise Pizza and Chicken burgers post-match if we don't concede in the first 15 minutes.
mad biker Posted 3 February 2019 Posted 3 February 2019 We could ask the PL to let all our games start at 1 v 0 to the opposition, that way we could have a full 90 mins of being a decent side :-)
st albans fox Posted 3 February 2019 Posted 3 February 2019 5 minutes ago, mad biker said: We could ask the PL to let all our games start at 1 v 0 to the opposition, that way we could have a full 90 mins of being a decent side :-) But then we’d be two down with 80 to play ......
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