Notre Dame

[Innovindil]

17 minutes ago, MattP said:

 

If your reaction to seeing an 850 year old piece of history burn down is this then maybe your thinking needs to be a little deeper than you have convinced yourself it already is.

Can't believe you bit after he didn't get any chomps at the first attempt. Disappointed matt 

[String fellow]

It's depressing that it seems socially acceptable to say negative things about stuff related to Christianity, but not to other religions.

Edited 16 April 2019 by String fellow

[Finnaldo]

26 minutes ago, String fellow said:

It's depressing that it seems socially acceptable to say negative things about stuff related to Christianity, but not to other religions.

 

Fair and non-threatening criticism of all religions is acceptable and posted here all the time. You'll notice however that as when people post half-baked and extremely stereotypical statements on religions such as Islam or, in the case of ozleicester on Christianity, it's often ignored/dismissed or challenged as daft or stupid.

Edited 16 April 2019 by Finnaldo

[stripeyfox]

45 minutes ago, String fellow said:

It's depressing that it seems socially acceptable to say negative things about stuff related to Christianity, but not to other religions.

For me this is nothing to do with religion - it is equally tragic to see a Christian church destroyed by fire as it is to see IS trashing ancient treasures. It is the destruction of something ancient and historic that can't be replaced which is the terrible thing.

 

 

[Parafox]

3 hours ago, davieG said:

 

 

Sarcasm very good, You mean the unique Bowstring Bridge yes but also plenty of others like those shown above.

Point taken.

[KingsX]

4 hours ago, ozleicester said:

The worlds richest tax avoiding corporation that abuses children, is racist, misogynist and corrupt to its core. 

Thoughts and prayers

 

9 hours ago, ozleicester said:

Has anyone asked why god is burning down churches?

 

OK, we get what that cathedral represents to you.

 

To many non-religious -- even anti-religious -- people, it represents the apex of human spirit and endeavor of its age.  A mind-blowingly beautiful and unlikely gift from that age to our own, the echo of thousands and thousands of forgotten people who spent (or gave) their lives building and preserving it.  To step inside it is to be taken to a mental and emotional place of awe that holds no niche for cynicism.

 

If you are a secular humanist, the only real gold standard for human behavior is the Golden Rule. 

 

I suggest you reconsider your response in light of it.

[Alf Bentley]

5 hours ago, Innovindil said:

Can't believe you bit after he didn't get any chomps at the first attempt. Disappointed matt 

 

@MattP was just subtly seeking to publicise his Europhile credentials. 

[Buce]

 

The old lady next door just said to me, "Isn't it awful, that fire in Nostradamus..?"

[Guest MattP]

4 minutes ago, Buce said:

The old lady next door just said to me, "Isn't it awful, that fire in Nostradamus..?"

It made me chuckle that Quasimodo ended up trending on Twitter last night.

[Buce]

5 minutes ago, MattP said:

It made me chuckle that Quasimodo ended up trending on Twitter last night.

 

I think maybe people were concerned they hadn't got him out in time.

[Alf Bentley]

9 minutes ago, Buce said:

 

I think maybe people were concerned they hadn't got him out in time.

 

The poor lad will be sleeping rough now.

 

If anyone spots a bloke with an unevenly-contoured back sleeping on the banks of the Seine, buy him a drink. I heard he likes Bell's.

[Buce]

Just now, Alf Bentley said:

 

The poor lad will be sleeping rough now.

 

If anyone spots a bloke with an unevenly-contoured back sleeping on the banks of the Seine, buy him a drink. I heard he likes Bell's.

 

 

Yeah.

 

I bet he's got the right hump.

[MC Prussian]

Serbian tabloids going for the "God's Punishment" tagline.

https://www.rferl.org/a/god-s-punishment-serbian-tabloids-say-notre-dame-fire-result-of-flying-kosovo-s-flag/29884431.html

[Alf Bentley]

24 minutes ago, Buce said:

 

The old lady next door just said to me, "Isn't it awful, that fire in Nostradamus..?"

 

Maybe she was just being pretentious, throwing in its Latin name.... 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nostradamus

"Michel de Nostredame (depending on the source, 14 or 21 December 1503 – 1 or 2 July 1566), usually Latinised as Nostradamus, was a French astrologer, physician and reputed seer..." 

 

Lots of old French words that used "ost" later lost the "s": e.g. "hostel" -> "hôtel"

So, Nostradamus' proper French name, translated, was "Michael of Notre-Dame"..... 

[bovril]

Anyone remember the old Hunchback computer game?

[StanSP]

Another good thread.

[Trav Le Bleu]

5 hours ago, bovril said:

Anyone remember the old Hunchback computer game?

By Ocean Games?

 

No, no idea what you're on about.

[bovril]

29 minutes ago, Trav Le Bleu said:

By Ocean Games?

 

No, no idea what you're on about.

Ah that 'Ocean' logo glittering. Good times. 

[ozleicester]

10 hours ago, KingsX said:

 

 

OK, we get what that cathedral represents to you.

 

To many non-religious -- even anti-religious -- people, it represents the apex of human spirit and endeavor of its age.  A mind-blowingly beautiful and unlikely gift from that age to our own, the echo of thousands and thousands of forgotten people who spent (or gave) their lives building and preserving it.  To step inside it is to be taken to a mental and emotional place of awe that holds no niche for cynicism.

 

If you are a secular humanist, the only real gold standard for human behavior is the Golden Rule. 

 

I suggest you reconsider your response in light of it.

Thanks for your recommendation.

these arent my words, but they cover very much how i feel, i recommend you read all of them and think about them....

 

"If two men in a world of more than 7 billion people can provide €300million to restore Notre Dame, within six hours, then there is enough money in the world to feed every mouth, shelter every family and educate every child. The failure to do so is a matter of will, and a matter of system.

 

The failure to do so comes from our failure to recognise the mundane emergencies that claims lives all around us every single day. Works of art and architectural history and beauty rely on the ingenuity of people, and it is people who must be protected above all else.

Brick and mortar and stained-glass might burn, but they do not bleed, and they do not starve, and they do not suffer. Humans suffer. Everywhere in the world, from Paris to Persepolis, people are suffering. But their suffering is every day. It does not light up a front page, and it does not inspire immediate donations from the world's wealthiest men.

France currently counts 140,000 homeless people — 30,000 of which are children.

 

A 2018 report by the Secours Catholique revealed that in total there are around 8.8 million people living below the poverty line in France in 2017. This means they are living on an income of less than €1,026 a month, and many of them live on considerably less. One in every eight French people live in poverty. Despite all of this, France remains the sixth richest country in the world, according to the International Monetary Fund.

 

The next time someone tries to pretend like you need to choose between homelessness or immigration, nurses' pay or a tax cut, a children's hospital or a motorway, remember this moment. The money is there at a click of a finger. It just isn't in our hands.”

 

Edit,

Note that my first comment mentioned burning down 'churches" as there was also a fire in a mosque somewhere, i was not pro or anti any religion just making a mildly humorous comment. I had no idea that so many snowflakes would be upset by my jokes- free speech ay?

Edited 17 April 2019 by ozleicester

[KingsX]

40 minutes ago, ozleicester said:

1 hour ago, ozleicester said:

Thanks for your recommendation.

these arent my words, but they cover very much how i feel, i recommend you read all of them and think about them....

 

"If two men in a world of more than 7 billion people can provide €300million to restore Notre Dame, within six hours, then there is enough money in the world to feed every mouth, shelter every family and educate every child. The failure to do so is a matter of will, and a matter of system.

 

The failure to do so comes from our failure to recognise the mundane emergencies that claims lives all around us every single day. Works of art and architectural history and beauty rely on the ingenuity of people, and it is people who must be protected above all else.

Brick and mortar and stained-glass might burn, but they do not bleed, and they do not starve, and they do not suffer. Humans suffer. Everywhere in the world, from Paris to Persepolis, people are suffering. But their suffering is every day. It does not light up a front page, and it does not inspire immediate donations from the world's wealthiest men.

France currently counts 140,000 homeless people — 30,000 of which are children.

 

A 2018 report by the Secours Catholique revealed that in total there are around 8.8 million people living below the poverty line in France in 2017. This means they are living on an income of less than €1,026 a month, and many of them live on considerably less. One in every eight French people live in poverty. Despite all of this, France remains the sixth richest country in the world, according to the International Monetary Fund.

 

The next time someone tries to pretend like you need to choose between homelessness or immigration, nurses' pay or a tax cut, a children's hospital or a motorway, remember this moment. The money is there at a click of a finger. It just isn't in our hands.”

 

Note that my first comment mentioned burning down 'churches" as there was also a fire in a mosque somewhere, i was not pro or anti any religion just making a mildly humorous comment. I had no idea that so many snowflakes would be upset by my jokes- free speech ay?

 

If you were simply making the case that the world, and France, have greater human needs that cannot be forgotten as we grieve and seek to repair this cultural loss, there could be no argument.

 

However, you took the opportunity to flame while lives were at stake ... and now view that as "mildly humorous", to be regretted only by "snowflakes" ... that's too much like the social media playbook of the Trump-fringe for my comfort.  Nor do I see it as the ideal time to express the view that allocation of resources to anything other than the levelling of wealth is unacceptable or obscene.  I guess there's room for argument there.

 

Your posts on this tragedy have given the impression that you are unable to see it except through the lens of a rigidly held political identity.  A disease of our times.

[Unabomber]

53 minutes ago, KingsX said:

 

If you were simply making the case that the world, and France, have greater human needs that cannot be forgotten as we grieve and seek to repair this cultural loss, there could be no argument.

 

However, you took the opportunity to flame while lives were at stake ... and now view that as "mildly humorous", to be regretted only by "snowflakes" ... that's too much like the social media playbook of the Trump-fringe for my comfort.  Nor do I see it as the ideal time to express the view that allocation of resources to anything other than the levelling of wealth is unacceptable or obscene.  I guess there's room for argument there.

 

Your posts on this tragedy have given the impression that you are unable to see it except through the lens of a rigidly held political identity.  A disease of our times.

Good post 

[ozleicester]

38 minutes ago, KingsX said:

 

If you were simply making the case that the world, and France, have greater human needs that cannot be forgotten as we grieve and seek to repair this cultural loss, there could be no argument.

 

However, you took the opportunity to flame while lives were at stake ... and now view that as "mildly humorous", to be regretted only by "snowflakes" ... that's too much like the social media playbook of the Trump-fringe for my comfort.  Nor do I see it as the ideal time to express the view that allocation of resources to anything other than the levelling of wealth is unacceptable or obscene.  I guess there's room for argument there.

 

Your posts on this tragedy have given the impression that you are unable to see it except through the lens of a rigidly held political identity.  A disease of our times.

It is NOT a tragedy!

 

If you want to discuss tragedy, look at the poverty in France for example https://www.thelocal.fr/20181108/report-the-shocking-truth-about-poverty-in-france-in-2018

 

No lives were lost, a building was damaged by fire, a building which will be rebuilt at the expense of children.

 

The millions of tears shed for a building damaged by a fire, are an appalling display of the stupidity of modern society, did any of those heartbroken building lovers cry as one in five french people couldnt afford three meals yesterday or the day/week/month/year before that?

 

It is just a building.

 

Yes, the "snowflake" is a cheap shot because that socialmedia/political playbook is what we are dealing with now and im tired of being the "snowflake" because i care.
It is a fvcking building! ..........no-one died. no-one was even hurt and people are offended because other people dont care about it, well toughen up princess.

 

It is just a building 

 

 

[foxinexile]

2 hours ago, ozleicester said:

The millions of tears shed for a building damaged by a fire, are an appalling display of the stupidity of modern society, did any of those heartbroken building lovers cry as one in five french people couldnt afford three meals yesterday or the day/week/month/year before that?

 

 

 

 

Out of interest, how many meals have you abstained from in the previous days/weeks/months/years in solidarity specifically with those French citizens? Hopefully you practice what you preach? (religious pun intended.) 

[ozleicester]

27 minutes ago, foxinexile said:

Out of interest, how many meals have you abstained from in the previous days/weeks/months/years in solidarity specifically with those French citizens? Hopefully you practice what you preach? (religious pun intended.) 

Im confused why you would ask, and i have no need to answer to anonymous nobodies on the internet but meh whatever.  No i havent abstained... but have i given to the homeless and charities in the recent past, then yes. OK?

 

Personalising this is particularly irrelevant and typical of how to deal with issues that upset you. 

 

My point was that two people alone, can give 300 million euros to a building  (that is supported by a group that is wealthy enough to build a million homes), while 30,000 THIRTY THOUSAND children have NO HOME  and will sleep on the streets in France tonight. 

 

Tell me, would you rather 300 million euros go to helping the poor and homeless... or to a wealthy corporation that does not need it?

 

[StanSP]

Can see where @ozleicester is coming from.

Money can immediately or freely be given so quickly to restoring an historical building (which is fine) but why is that money (or some of it) also not given to helping avoid children's homelessness? 

 

Aside from all the religious stuff which may get spouted at any given time, when you weigh up the two, it does make you think. 

 

Not trying to downplay the tragedy (it is one) of the fire of a hugely significant building and architectural wonder - literally 1000 years of history going up in smoke - but that doesn't mean we can't ignore the question of where's that money to help avoid people sleeping on the street? Weighing up the two - would someone rather see a person, be it a child or not, potentially die on the street or see a building restored?