2019/20 Under 23's, U19's, Development ... thread

[themightyfin]

2 minutes ago, Fspen2 said:

Problem for a lot of the u23 boys is their wages. Some earn significantly more than the average League 1 player and League 1 or 2 clubs are understandably reluctant to pay un unproven loanee more than some of their established players. Leicester dont help the situation as they usually insist on the loan club paying a very high % of the players wages, rather than paying the bulk in order to let the player get some first team experience. Certain players over the last couple of years, however, have benefited from Leicester paying 100% of their wage, which obviously makes taking the player on loan much more appealing.

Ha has now I'll question where you get your information from!!!

 

Leicester in the last 4/5 years have always paid at least 50% of development squad players wages when they go out on loan so I call BS on you. 

[Fspen2]

7 minutes ago, themightyfin said:

Can you please tell me what was incorrect ?

 

I stated yes 4th choice....and he is

I stayed he was offered out on loan and no league clubs cane in for him at the start if the season.Then I guessed probably because of his injury record.

And that's true also.

 

So what exactly have I said that is not true?

Josh Eppiah was not offered on loan to any club at start of season. 

 

7 minutes ago, themightyfin said:

Ha has now I'll question where you get your information from!!!

 

Leicester in the last 4/5 years have always paid at least 50% of development squad players wages when they go out on loan so I call BS on you. 

50% is indeed a high % compared to some deals. When certain players in u23s are earning in excess of 4k a week, it is a lot for a league 1/2 team to pay 50% of that.

 

 

[themightyfin]

1 hour ago, Fspen2 said:

Josh Eppiah was not offered on loan to any club at start of season. 

 

50% is indeed a high % compared to some deals. When certain players in u23s are earning in excess of 4k a week, it is a lot for a league 1/2 team to pay 50% of that.

 

 

Yes he was . He was made Available to all football league clubs. 

[Fspen2]

1 minute ago, themightyfin said:

Yes he was . He was made Available to all football league clubs. 

Ok, Mr Rudkin 👍🏾

[Jimmy]

does anyone who watches the U18s know how Sidnei Tavares is getting on this season, hear good things about him but I don't think he's played for the U23s yet this season?

[Guest An Sionnach]

Here we are talking about sending 22 year olds out on loan while Ansu Fati plays (and scores) for Barcelona in the CL at 16 y. o. No doubt if he was in our development squad some would be saying he is nothing like ready.

[Jimmy]

21 minutes ago, An Sionnach said:

Here we are talking about sending 22 year olds out on loan while Ansu Fati plays (and scores) for Barcelona in the CL at 16 y. o. No doubt if he was in our development squad some would be saying he is nothing like ready.

if he was here he wouldn't be in our development squad as Brendan would have him in the first team

[Guest An Sionnach]

20 minutes ago, Jimmy said:

if he was here he wouldn't be in our development squad as Brendan would have him in the first team

Only Barnes and Chilwell from our development squad have become first team regulars in recent years and some would drop Barnes for a bought in "winger" . Do these young players have a chance or not or is the plan to sift through hundreds of kids hoping to find one who might make it.

[Jimmy]

Just now, An Sionnach said:

Only Barnes and Chilwell from our development squad have become first team regulars in recent years and some would drop Barnes for a bought in "winger" . Do these young players have a chance or not or is the plan to sift through hundreds of kids hoping to find one who might make it.

its not like the Championship and PL are littered with players out of our academy that we never gave a chance to, there are a hand full in the lower leagues that's about it really so maybe the talent just wasn't there to begin with, where as now were are getting more talented players in at the start and they are making the progression we would hope for

[Guest An Sionnach]

3 minutes ago, Jimmy said:

its not like the Championship and PL are littered with players out of our academy that we never gave a chance to, there are a hand full in the lower leagues that's about it really so maybe the talent just wasn't there to begin with, where as now were are getting more talented players in at the start and they are making the progression we would hope for

You get the feeling that our talent scouts are more interested in chasing players in the French or Belgian second division than concentrating on our own promising youngsters.We have a very poor record of bringing young players through and that has got to change.

[Foxxed]

10 minutes ago, An Sionnach said:

You get the feeling that our talent scouts are more interested in chasing players in the French or Belgian second division than concentrating on our own promising youngsters.We have a very poor record of bringing young players through and that has got to change.

King, Moore, Hamza, Chil and Barnes are a very poor record of being young English talent through? It’s easily up there with the best in the league. And you’re upset we’ve got one promising Belgian?

[Guest An Sionnach]

Our development squad have won eight in a row and yet the majority of them have little chance of progression into the main squad . Hamza has been off the bench recently and some are talking of replacing Barnes with a bought in replacement. The loanees come back and are sent straight back out again to anybody who will have them destroying their motivation. We are finding talent but not persisting with it.

[TJB-fox]

34 minutes ago, An Sionnach said:

Our development squad have won eight in a row and yet the majority of them have little chance of progression into the main squad . Hamza has been off the bench recently and some are talking of replacing Barnes with a bought in replacement. The loanees come back and are sent straight back out again to anybody who will have them destroying their motivation. We are finding talent but not persisting with it.

Bit pessimistic. You could also look at it from the view that we have THREE academy graduates firmly in the first team squad, two of which have started most games this season and Hamza is hardly out in the cold. Josh Knight getting rave reviews before his injury at the Posh and I’m sure Regba/Thomas/Hirst to name a few will be sold for decent fees should we decide to sell them. 

[nwl fox]

8 hours ago, themightyfin said:

Ha has now I'll question where you get your information from!!!

 

Leicester in the last 4/5 years have always paid at least 50% of development squad players wages when they go out on loan so I call BS on you. 

I would have thought that to be the case, but on talksport last night Adrian Durham specifically stated that he'd asked that very question about josh knights wages and was told that Peterborough were picking up 100% of his wages. & yes I know he spouts a lot of shit but it's well documented that he is quite pally with the Peterborough chairman... *shuffles nervously at quoting talkshite radio as a reliable source 😂

[Guest An Sionnach]

We would have to assume that Mason Greenwood ( just 18) is far better than any of our development squad otherwise he would not be in the Man. Utd. team. No doubt along with McTominey and Rashford they just got lucky. Loaning young players out will not do anything for their progress unless they go to top half championship teams. Our development squad is already beating Div. 1 and 2 teams.

[Guest]

20 minutes ago, An Sionnach said:

We would have to assume that Mason Greenwood ( just 18) is far better than any of our development squad otherwise he would not be in the Man. Utd. team. No doubt along with McTominey and Rashford they just got lucky. Loaning young players out will not do anything for their progress unless they go to top half championship teams. Our development squad is already beating Div. 1 and 2 teams.

He probably is, yeah. Their coaches think their youngsters are ready for first team football, our coaches think our youngsters aren't. "Their 18-year-olds are good enough, ours must be too" - well no, not necessarily.

 

In the absence of promotion-chasing Championship sides queuing up to get their hands on the likes of Hirst and Eppiah, what would you actually like us to do with them? If we're putting them into the first team on the basis that Barcelona and Man Utd are giving minutes to their youngsters so we absolutely must do the same, who's missing out? You talk about damaging their motivation - what's it going to do to the motivation of Praet, Iheanacho, Gray, Albrighton etc. if they're being dropped from the squad for kids with little to no experience of professional football? I honestly don't know what you expect us to do. 

[Ric Flair]

35 minutes ago, An Sionnach said:

We would have to assume that Mason Greenwood ( just 18) is far better than any of our development squad otherwise he would not be in the Man. Utd. team. No doubt along with McTominey and Rashford they just got lucky. Loaning young players out will not do anything for their progress unless they go to top half championship teams. Our development squad is already beating Div. 1 and 2 teams.

This is why we need persistent and sustained investment in our academy, it's going to take several years to truly turn it in to one that befits a club that's challenging to be amongst the best clubs in the country. We will have the training facilities to do so, are we brave enough and serious enough about getting the coaches throughout the age groups and the recruitment to provide a conveyor belt?

[Guest An Sionnach]

1 minute ago, Guest said:

He probably is, yeah. Their coaches think their youngsters are ready for first team football, our coaches think our youngsters aren't. "Their 18-year-olds are good enough, ours must be too" - well no, not necessarily.

 

In the absence of promotion-chasing Championship sides queuing up to get their hands on the likes of Hirst and Eppiah, what would you actually like us to do with them? If we're putting them into the first team on the basis that Barcelona and Man Utd are giving minutes to their youngsters so we absolutely must do the same, who's missing out? You talk about damaging their motivation - what's it going to do to the motivation of Praet, Iheanacho, Gray, Albrighton etc. if they're being dropped from the squad for kids with little to no experience of professional football? I honestly don't know what you expect us to do. 

If you were a promising 15 y. o. would you want to sign for Leicester if you knew your chances of progress were so limited. Of course you do not displace first team squad players in a winning team with youngsters but with 40 odd games a season the inclusion of a young player on the bench now and again and perhaps 10 or 15 minutes on the pitch would do wonders for their motivation. I will stick my neck out here and say that those promising young strikers we have would score goals at premiership level.

[Muzzy_Larsson]

Some interesting chat on this thread, can relate to it quite a bit as the core of our side (Celtic) have came from our academy with the next crop predicted to come through thought to be even more promising(Dembele, Robertson, Okoflex, Afolabi, O'Connor).  Youth development, particularly at elite level like the EPL can be a bit of a double edged sword as the stronger you become as a side and the boom and bust nature of the EPL itself means the pathway is for youngsters to make the breakthrough is a lot more difficult.

 

From the outside looking in I'd say you guys are doing pretty good on this front, Chilwell, Hamza and Barnes all permanent first team squad fixtures, all of whom have made the breakthrough proper in the last few years.  If you get 1 player of the level or close to it of Chilwell coming through every few years then that's a great success rate imo.  Looking at it coldly it's like getting a £40-60m player every few years for free.

 

These clubs where you see a glut of kids all come through at the one time are very much the exception as opposed to the rule.  Examples would be the class of 92, pep's barca, the current Ajax side and the Ajax side of the 90s, there's not much more going beyond that so expecting or planning to develop that sort of talent all at the one time is very much an unachievable utopia 99.9% of the time.

[Muzzy_Larsson]

14 minutes ago, An Sionnach said:

If you were a promising 15 y. o. would you want to sign for Leicester if you knew your chances of progress were so limited. Of course you do not displace first team squad players in a winning team with youngsters but with 40 odd games a season the inclusion of a young player on the bench now and again and perhaps 10 or 15 minutes on the pitch would do wonders for their motivation. I will stick my neck out here and say that those promising young strikers we have would score goals at premiership level.

I probably would because I would look at guys like Chilwell, Hamza and Barnes who have came through the last few years and think there is a pathway there if I'm good enough and if I get there, there is a manger in the first team who has a proven track record of developing young players.  There's a glut of EPL clubs you could look at, at both ends of the table who you most definitely could not say the same for.

 

Young players need to be included in the match day squad on merit, not to motivate them, if they require motivation to succeed at that age then they are in the wrong job and don't posses the necessary hunger and desire to make it in the game.

Edited 13 December 2019 by henrik_62

[Guest An Sionnach]

There is an asset value consideration here and this applies particularly to strikers. Rashford's value is at least 80 million and even Greenwood would be 50 million. A young player who scores goals quickly becomes extremely valuable. If say Muskwe came off the bench and scored for us his value would jump five fold immediately , if he did it again it would be ten fold.

[Muzzy_Larsson]

1 minute ago, An Sionnach said:

There is an asset value consideration here and this applies particularly to strikers. Rashford's value is at least 80 million and even Greenwood would be 50 million. A young player who scores goals quickly becomes extremely valuable. If say Muskwe came off the bench and scored for us his value would jump five fold immediately , if he did it again it would be ten fold.

I'm sounding a bit like a broken record here but if you were prepared to sell Chilwell in January would he be a kick in the back side off of an £80m player?  I don't think so.

 

From the outside looking in Leicester look like one of the best club's in the EPL for producing and promoting youth at the moment so I'd be careful what you wish for.

[Guest An Sionnach]

14 minutes ago, henrik_62 said:

I'm sounding a bit like a broken record here but if you were prepared to sell Chilwell in January would he be a kick in the back side off of an £80m player?  I don't think so.

 

From the outside looking in Leicester look like one of the best club's in the EPL for producing and promoting youth at the moment so I'd be careful what you wish for.

He is not a striker and the media hype would be ignored by hard - bitten scouts watching him . Every aspect of his defensive and attacking play would be assessed. Strikers are only judged by their ability to put the ball in the net. Michael Owen was a very average footballer but a brilliant striker. He made his debut at 16 I think.

Edited 13 December 2019 by An Sionnach

[lgfualol]

What happened to Ndukwu and who is the next player to get a sniff at first team football? 

[Guest]

44 minutes ago, An Sionnach said:

If you were a promising 15 y. o. would you want to sign for Leicester if you knew your chances of progress were so limited. Of course you do not displace first team squad players in a winning team with youngsters but with 40 odd games a season the inclusion of a young player on the bench now and again and perhaps 10 or 15 minutes on the pitch would do wonders for their motivation. I will stick my neck out here and say that those promising young strikers we have would score goals at premiership level.

As @henrik_62 says, I think we probably look a decent proposition at present for young players, whether from the academy or bought from another club. I certainly can't see that we're particularly bad at giving opportunities to our academy players in comparison to other clubs. The chances of progressing from the academy to regular first team football at any Premier League club are incredibly slim.

 

I seriously doubt that any of them will ever be anything like regular goalscorers in the Premier League. That's not a slight on them, on our academy or on our coaches, it's just probability.