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smileysharad

Brexit!

By smileysharad, in General Chat

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The Guvnor

The Guvnor

Posted
Posted

Politics live today really confirms the reason the EU's stance has hardened is down to the Benn Bill. 

They are hardly likely to agree to any deal before the submission of the extension request. Interestingly LK has said about a week ago somebody from the EU involved in the negotiating process stated we have a lipstick in our pocket but we can only use it once.

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Guest MattP

Guest MattP

Posted
Posted
55 minutes ago, bovril said:

They have responded apparently, point by point.

 

The WA was agreed by the UK government and the EU but that seems to be completely dead. 

The withdrawal agreement was rejected by our parliament three times - of course it's dead.

 

I've for months now the remainers will regret rejecting that, they lost the war, won the peace and then still gambled it for their utopia.

 

29 minutes ago, Jon the Hat said:

Interesting developments today.  If the quotes attributed to Merkel are true then the EU doesn’t want a deal either.  Bring on the 31st.

I'd still imagine they do, but the surrender bill let's them take it to next week to see what developments occur that could change the situation. 

 

Hopefully we can find a way around it, but I fear another extention and the remain cabal in parliament just keeping the government in paralysis in the vein hope his polls ratings will drop.

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Finnaldo

Finnaldo

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Jon the Hat said:


We don’t have to accept this shit!  Walk away is the way forward.  **** them!!

 

If we were to walk away and in your phrasing "**** them!", isn't this the exact same situation we'll find ourselves in negotiations with others world powers who are stronger than us? Do we just tell every world power who holds the cards to fvck themselves when they inevitably push unfavorable terms on us until we're trading with Mongolia and North Korea?

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WigstonWanderer

WigstonWanderer

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, MattP said:

The withdrawal agreement was rejected by our parliament three times - of course it's dead.

 

I've for months now the remainers will regret rejecting that, they lost the war, won the peace and then still gambled it for their utopia.

 

I'd still imagine they do, but the surrender bill let's them take it to next week to see what developments occur that could change the situation. 

 

Hopefully we can find a way around it, but I fear another extention and the remain cabal in parliament just keeping the government in paralysis in the vein hope his polls ratings will drop.

Well the opposition’s job generally is to oppose, and they did fight the election on a much softer Brexit than contained in May’s deal, so can’t really put the blame on them. The tail which really wagged the dog was the ERG.

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Guest MattP

Guest MattP

Posted
Posted
22 minutes ago, WigstonWanderer said:

Well the opposition’s job generally is to oppose, and they did fight the election on a much softer Brexit than contained in May’s deal, so can’t really put the blame on them. The tail which really wagged the dog was the ERG.

No blame being attached at all - I'm just saying they'll regret it instead of what is now the likely outcome. 

 

I'm on about the "moderate remainers" in the party.

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Alf Bentley

Alf Bentley

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, Voll Blau said:

Come on. Even Hodges isn't buying it FFS...

 

 

Merkel: "Jawohl, for you, Boris, ze var is over!" 

 

Doubly surprising that he's accepting EU decisions made by Merkel:

- Firstly, because he's been told countless times that EU decisions are taken by the EU, not individual nations, and that negotiations are through Barnier, not Merkel

- Secondly, you'd have expected Merkel & Macron to be desperate to capitulate, anyway, as we're always told about the UK's strong negotiating position due to our trade deficit, German car exports, French wine exports etc.

- Thirdly, Brexiteers have been repeatedly telling us that the EU always does a deal at the last minute.....:rolleyes:

 

You'd almost think that the Tories weren't serious about negotiating a deal and just wanted to get on with blaming the EU, parliament and the judges for the lack of a deal, so as to then proceed to a toxic, divisive People v. Parliament/EU election in the hope of a majority mandate to pursue No Deal and spend 5 years turning the country into a squalid, deregulated playground for global capital...

 

Seems like they cannot even be bothered to fabricate credible stories with which to dishonestly blame others.

 

Anyway, if we do end up with No Deal, either on 31st October or (more likely) after an election, it'll give an opportunity to test the theory of all those Brexiteers that "No Deal is no problem", to expose all these "Project Fear" predictions of gloom and to glory in all the great global trade deals that will be signed immediately....

 

 

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Alf Bentley

Alf Bentley

Posted
Posted

Good article here about infiltration of the Tory Party by Leave.EU & ex-UKIP supporters:  https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/brexit/2019/10/brexit-revolutionaries

I'd take some of Arron Banks' comments with a pinch of salt, but still jaw-dropping stuff....and shocking how little media coverage of this there is....

 

"Leave.EU is winning the online popularity battle, boasting almost a million Facebook followers and consistently enjoying the highest online engagement – likes, shares, comments – of any political organisation or party in the country. The group is using this huge online support to wage a deliberate and coordinated guerrilla war on British politics and the Conservative Party.

 

“There has been a systematic operation of infiltration” into the Tory party, Nick Boles MP told the Times, highlighting “a sudden influx of ex-Ukip members or ex-Ukip voters actively recruited by the organisations Leave.EU and Leave Means Leave”. For Banks, the Conservative Party’s swing to the right, the resignation of pro-Remain or soft Brexit MPs, and the rise of the Brexit Party, are all down to Leave.EU and its relentless online campaigning. “People haven’t really realised the role we’ve had. It’s had a profound effect, because you can direct your firepower, if you like, directly into the heart of the Conservative Party.”

 

"Conservative Party membership had been in decline for years. Banks now claimed the rise in members was all down to his work. “We know from our stats that we encouraged somewhere between 20,000 and 25,000 people to join the Tories. If you go and ask most Tory MPs, they’ll tell you they had a huge surge in membership that they couldn’t explain or didn’t really understand,” Banks told me. Officially, the Conservative Party has denied Banks’s claims of infiltration. But the office of one targeted MP, whose local party has almost doubled its membership over the last year, was sure Leave.EU was involved – whenever an ad by Leave.EU ran, attacking their MP for his anti-Brexit stance, up to 15 new members would sign up to join the local Conservative Party association".

 

"After Johnson won, it tweeted: “A big thank you to the 37,000 Leave.EU supporting Tory members who backed @BorisJohnson and helped make this huge victory possible.

 

Banks: ”We’re extremely supportive of the Brexit Party, we want to see it do extremely well.” But the Tories remained in his sights. “Our role is more guerrilla-like,” Banks said, “getting inside the Conservative Party and wreaking havoc to make the Brexit Party’s job even easier.”

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bovril

bovril

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, Alf Bentley said:

Good article here about infiltration of the Tory Party by Leave.EU & ex-UKIP supporters:  https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/brexit/2019/10/brexit-revolutionaries

I'd take some of Arron Banks' comments with a pinch of salt, but still jaw-dropping stuff....and shocking how little media coverage of this there is....

 

"Leave.EU is winning the online popularity battle, boasting almost a million Facebook followers and consistently enjoying the highest online engagement – likes, shares, comments – of any political organisation or party in the country. The group is using this huge online support to wage a deliberate and coordinated guerrilla war on British politics and the Conservative Party.

 

Classy people, Leave.EU

 

 

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Alf Bentley

Alf Bentley

Posted
Posted

More "Project Fear doom and gloom" about No Deal from those extremists at the IFS..... :rolleyes:

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-49961301

 

"Even a "relatively benign" no-deal Brexit would push UK debt to its highest since the 1960s, the Institute for Fiscal Studies (IFS) has said. The think tank said borrowing was likely to rise to £100bn and total debt would soar to 90% of national income.

'The government is now adrift without any effective fiscal anchor,' said IFS director Paul Johnson". Nice to know that all those years of austerity economics were pointless as we can just ratchet up debt even more than before....

 

"The IFS said: "Given the extraordinary level of uncertainty and risks facing the economy and public finances, it [the government] should not be looking to offer further permanent overall tax giveaways in any forthcoming Budget.

"In the case of a no-deal Brexit, though, it should be implementing carefully targeted and temporary tax cuts and spending increases where it can effectively support the economy."

 

"The think tank said the government's current plans for day-to-day spending next year are closer to the levels proposed by Labour's 2017 manifesto than plans laid out by the Conservative party at the time".

I thought Labour's 2017 plans were lambasted as "magic money tree" nonsense by all on the Right? :dunno:

 

"Even with "substantial" government spending, the IFS expects the UK economy to flatline for two years following a no-deal Brexit. It warned that a rise in public spending in 2020 would likely be followed by "another bust" as the government would have to deal with "the consequences of a smaller economy and higher debt for funding public services". The IFS said that it would be "crucial" that government spending programmes were temporary. "An economy that turns out smaller than expected can, in the long run, support less public spending than expected, not more".  Cue major public spending cuts & renewed austerity a year or two into a majority Boris Govt.... ;)

 

 

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bovril

bovril

Posted
Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, Alf Bentley said:

More "Project Fear doom and gloom" about No Deal from those extremists at the IFS..... :rolleyes:

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-49961301

 

"Even a "relatively benign" no-deal Brexit would push UK debt to its highest since the 1960s, the Institute for Fiscal Studies (IFS) has said. The think tank said borrowing was likely to rise to £100bn and total debt would soar to 90% of national income.

'The government is now adrift without any effective fiscal anchor,' said IFS director Paul Johnson". Nice to know that all those years of austerity economics were pointless as we can just ratchet up debt even more than before....

 

"The IFS said: "Given the extraordinary level of uncertainty and risks facing the economy and public finances, it [the government] should not be looking to offer further permanent overall tax giveaways in any forthcoming Budget.

"In the case of a no-deal Brexit, though, it should be implementing carefully targeted and temporary tax cuts and spending increases where it can effectively support the economy."

 

"The think tank said the government's current plans for day-to-day spending next year are closer to the levels proposed by Labour's 2017 manifesto than plans laid out by the Conservative party at the time".

I thought Labour's 2017 plans were lambasted as "magic money tree" nonsense by all on the Right? :dunno:

 

"Even with "substantial" government spending, the IFS expects the UK economy to flatline for two years following a no-deal Brexit. It warned that a rise in public spending in 2020 would likely be followed by "another bust" as the government would have to deal with "the consequences of a smaller economy and higher debt for funding public services". The IFS said that it would be "crucial" that government spending programmes were temporary. "An economy that turns out smaller than expected can, in the long run, support less public spending than expected, not more".  Cue major public spending cuts & renewed austerity a year or two into a majority Boris Govt.... ;)

 

 

And this time with added turbo-charged nationalism and a sense of national betrayal and humiliation. Fun times await. 

Edited by bovril
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Alf Bentley

Alf Bentley

Posted
Posted (edited)

Re. the polls posted by @MattP & @UpTheLeagueFox, putting the Tories ahead by various margins (some large)......

 

It puzzles me that the bookies still have it odds-on for an election to produce another hung parliament - and only 6-4 for a Tory majority.

I know that odds are largely determined by bets placed. So, are the bookies - or punters - factoring in something else, like Tory support drifting to Farage if they don't "get Brexit done" by 31/10, tactical voting by Remainers or Boris alienating people?

 

From my anti-Tory perspective, the figures here make me pretty pessimistic:

http://www.electionpolling.co.uk/battleground/targets/conservative

http://www.electionpolling.co.uk/battleground/targets/liberal-democrat

http://www.electionpolling.co.uk/battleground/targets/snp

 

- There are about 40 Labour seats with a majority of less than 4000 over the Tories, mainly Leave seats plus a few in the SE, where LD switchers could hand the seat to the Tories

- There are only 13 Tory seats where the Lib Dems are less than 12,000 behind.....surely limiting their potential gains?

- The Tories cannot lose more than 13 seats to the SNP or others in Scotland, as they only have 13

 

A lot of factors could change the outlook, but let's just say that I can see why the Tories think they have a good chance of winning a majority.....5 years under BJ.... :S

 

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Jon the Hat

Jon the Hat

Posted
Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Finnaldo said:

 

If we were to walk away and in your phrasing "**** them!", isn't this the exact same situation we'll find ourselves in negotiations with others world powers who are stronger than us? Do we just tell every world power who holds the cards to fvck themselves when they inevitably push unfavorable terms on us until we're trading with Mongolia and North Korea?

You don’t see the EUs sole objective is to stop Brexit?  I mean they have said it enough times - they want the British to change their minds.  This is far from a normal trade negotiation,  In fact we haven;t even started talking about trade have we??  This is the transitional period, which no one even mentioned before we triggered article 50 - the EU created it to keep us in longer and give more time for project fear, and for the British people to worry and those agitating for a new vote to have time to politic for it.  

We are being ****ed over the by the EU in an attempt to stop us leaving, and the only solution to this is no deal exit on the 31st.  Then we can start again on negotiations.  It will I expect be quicker.

Edited by Jon the Hat
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FerrisBueller

FerrisBueller

Posted
Posted
44 minutes ago, Voll Blau said:

Wonder how many of the spotty little virgins on the Leave.EU social media team fought in World War Two...

 

Noxious pricks.

They don't even pretend to have any good points anymore, just bare-faced racism with an additional war reference aimed at the generation that never fought in the war but fetishise it.

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