Getting brexit done!

[Bellend Sebastian]

The UK's vaccine strategy does appear to be a good news story, but us having the world's highest per capita death rate does take the edge off it a bit

[Spudulike]

1 hour ago, The whole world smiles said:

Is our brilliant vaccine response compared to Europe down to Brexit then?

 

I thought it was to do with the fact its the Oxford vaccine as in the town in England where its made that has been approved. So we were always in line for a steady stream of vaccines Brexit or no Brexit. 

 

Not trolling genuinely interested in the case for Brexit effecting it. 

Don't mention that to Nicola and the Nationalists. 

[The whole world smiles]

Just now, Spudulike said:

Don't mention that to Nicola and the Nationalists. 

Good point we should withhold the vaccine pending another independence vote next week 😂

[Kopfkino]

6 hours ago, The whole world smiles said:

Is our brilliant vaccine response compared to Europe down to Brexit then?

 

I thought it was to do with the fact its the Oxford vaccine as in the town in England where its made that has been approved. So we were always in line for a steady stream of vaccines Brexit or no Brexit. 

 

Not trolling genuinely interested in the case for Brexit effecting it. 

I think this is one where, on a technical level, the UK could have taken the same approach had it been inside the EU. Similar to the discussion about early approval and therefore not a Brexit benefit. However, I think the problem with that analysis is it ignores politics. Being able to do something doesn’t mean you would have done it and that’s the key question that ultimately nobody can know the answer to.

All EU members agreed to a centralised approach with the Commission in June but I’m pretty sure a member state could have opted out and that this wouldn’t have jeopardised the agreement. As it was, the UK had the option to join and declined and I think exactly the same could have technically happened as a member state. No Brexit benefit.

 

Also, had the UK opted to join, it would have been able to influence the scheme. The EU got its bets and ordering schedule ‘wrong’ for volumes now. Part of that is unlucky, part of it . So Brexit could have meant the EU has done worse than would have otherwise with UK influence or it might have made no difference, so still not a Brexit benefit. 
 

 

Where the possible Brexit benefit has come is politically. It’s all very well saying the UK could have chosen a different path as an EU member, but that’s very different to actually doing so. Brexit provided the political will to be different and made it easier to do it differently. It’s hard to imagine pre-2016 politics not signing up to the EU scheme, there’d be no justification nor particular desire not to be part of it.  The calls to join the EU scheme were loud enough as it was, plenty accused the government of choosing ideology over health so why would a government whose central purpose was something other than separating from the EU seek to be separate when the prevailing wisdom was that it was the wrong choice?

 

 

 

 

 

[Spudulike]

... and it gets worse:

 

BBC News - Coronavirus: EU vaccine woes mount as new delays emerge
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-55771223

 

Had the UK still been an member and therefore almost without doubt signed up to the EU vaccination programme, as have all other states, then finger pointing at those that voted remain would be intense now. A continuation of the argument and a massive distraction to the job at hand affecting the health of our nation. 

 

Some will be saying thank God we left. 

[Innovindil]

1 hour ago, Spudulike said:

... and it gets worse:

 

BBC News - Coronavirus: EU vaccine woes mount as new delays emerge
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-55771223

 

Had the UK still been an member and therefore almost without doubt signed up to the EU vaccination programme, as have all other states, then finger pointing at those that voted remain would be intense now. A continuation of the argument and a massive distraction to the job at hand affecting the health of our nation. 

 

Some will be saying thank God we left. 

Don't particularly like the point scoring when lives are at stake, better for everyone that this virus was under control and the vaccine rollout was going better across the eu. 

 

It's a valid point, just seems a bit in bad taste. 

 

With all that said, did everyone see the fines dished out to games publishers on the BBC yesterday? Companies were country locking games so they could offer them to poorer eu countries at a lower cost and the EU have stepped in to say that's not on. That's the sort of crap that grinds my gears, seems like madness. 

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-55749954

[January47]

22 minutes ago, Innovindil said:

Don't particularly like the point scoring when lives are at stake, better for everyone that this virus was under control and the vaccine rollout was going better across the eu. 

 

It's a valid point, just seems a bit in bad taste. 

 

With all that said, did everyone see the fines dished out to games publishers on the BBC yesterday? Companies were country locking games so they could offer them to poorer eu countries at a lower cost and the EU have stepped in to say that's not on. That's the sort of crap that grinds my gears, seems like madness. 

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-55749954

The games thing may seem trivial but is fundamentally what the EU is about.

 

Same regulations, currency etc across the whole of the EU. Its all currently set up with massive benefits to Germany, Netherlands etc as hi tech exporting companies and cripples  the likes of Greece, Portugal due to a single exchange rate across the the EU. The clubmed countries are now kept in their place by EU loans which they'll never pay back whilst at the same time high exchange rates ruin them

 

Believe it or not, I'm no rapid anti EU person and its costing myself and family in a number of ways.

However in the long run we will be glad we're out.

 

 

[fuchsntf]

7 minutes ago, January47 said:

The games thing may seem trivial but is fundamentally what the EU is about.

 

Same regulations, currency etc across the whole of the EU. Its all currently set up with massive benefits to Germany, Netherlands etc as hi tech exporting companies and cripples  the likes of Greece, Portugal due to a single exchange rate across the the EU. The clubmed countries are now kept in their place by EU loans which they'll never pay back whilst at the same time high exchange rates ruin them

 

Believe it or not, I'm no rapid anti EU person and its costing myself and family in a number of ways.

However in the long run we will be glad we're out.

 

 

Wouldnt it also fair to say for countries like Greece,....That without the EU, they would be even struggling more...

still trying to Recover from Pure Internal corruption, and super rich, Not paying Taxes...

 

 

[January47]

25 minutes ago, fuchsntf said:

Wouldnt it also fair to say for countries like Greece,....That without the EU, they would be even struggling more...

still trying to Recover from Pure Internal corruption, and super rich, Not paying Taxes...

 

 

There is truth in that, although having a super rich and not paying taxes is not unique to them. Its a question of what they can now do about being in the EU. The normal way out of it for a sovereign country would be that their exchange rate would fall which means they could export more or receive more in local currency for exports, and also boost tourism (not at the moment though!) in order to grow the economy. 

Now they are beholden to the EU (or the central bank more accurately) and told what their financial policy should be with thereby associated democratic issues. The loans they get (mostly backed by Germany) are a fraction of the benefit German exporting companies get (and taxes the German government subsequently receive) due to the depressed level of the euro. Overall its a transfer of money from poorer countries to the richer ones.

[bovril]

2 hours ago, January47 said:

The games thing may seem trivial but is fundamentally what the EU is about.

 

Same regulations, currency etc across the whole of the EU. Its all currently set up with massive benefits to Germany, Netherlands etc as hi tech exporting companies and cripples  the likes of Greece, Portugal due to a single exchange rate across the the EU. The clubmed countries are now kept in their place by EU loans which they'll never pay back whilst at the same time high exchange rates ruin them

 

Believe it or not, I'm no rapid anti EU person and its costing myself and family in a number of ways.

However in the long run we will be glad we're out.

 

 

In the long run people will want to see some tangible benefits, I think. Ease of trade and travel mean more to people than Greece.

 

At the same time I think it depends greatly on the post-Covid recovery and whether Europe sees more austerity and right-wing populism as a result. 

[fuchsntf]

3 hours ago, January47 said:

There is truth in that, although having a super rich and not paying taxes is not unique to them. Its a question of what they can now do about being in the EU. The normal way out of it for a sovereign country would be that their exchange rate would fall which means they could export more or receive more in local currency for exports, and also boost tourism (not at the moment though!) in order to grow the economy. 

Now they are beholden to the EU (or the central bank more accurately) and told what their financial policy should be with thereby associated democratic issues. The loans they get (mostly backed by Germany) are a fraction of the benefit German exporting companies get (and taxes the German government subsequently receive) due to the depressed level of the euro. Overall its a transfer of money from poorer countries to the richer ones.

👍👍

[Kopfkino]

This is peak Brexit  

 

 

 

[Carl the Llama]

1 hour ago, Kopfkino said:

This is peak Brexit  

 

 

 

Yeah there's a report on the bbc about it.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-55786974  

I like how the Express call it a "clever ploy" instead of a monumental **** up. So much for taking back jobs and control.

[bovril]

2 hours ago, Kopfkino said:

This is peak Brexit  

 

 

 

It's peak Express. A 'cunning plan' indeed. 

[bovril]

It's like politicians saying N Ireland still has the 'best of both worlds' by being in the SM.

[CosbehFox]

Quite sad stories reading of companies reliant on export completely losing sections of their business - in the process, losing jobs in this country as the businesses seek to move abroad. 

[Magictv]

 

Annoying but predictable situation I'm in with a delivery from the Netherlands - hopefully resolved soon! Is anyone else experiencing similar?

 

Sadly this time there was no British alternative for me to order from instead

[bovril]

Come back Zinc!

[January47]

On 24/01/2021 at 13:09, bovril said:

It's peak Express. A 'cunning plan' indeed. 

for a bit of balance

 

More than 1,400 EU-based firms have applied for permission to operate in the UK after Brexit, with over 1,000 of these planning to establish their first UK office.

The figures, revealed in a Freedom of Information request, are seen as evidence that the UK will continue to be a leading player on the global financial stage after Britain leaves the EU.

The FOI revealed that by October 2019, the Financial Conduct Authority had received a total of 1,441 applications from firms to use the Temporary Permission Regime (TPR).

[CosbehFox]

So we are swapping like or like, to maintain a very expensive status quo 

[BKLFox]

21 minutes ago, Magictv said:

 

Annoying but predictable situation I'm in with a delivery from the Netherlands - hopefully resolved soon! Is anyone else experiencing similar?

 

Sadly this time there was no British alternative for me to order from instead

Their Mary Jane Brownies are the best so worth the wait

[Rob1742]

On 25/01/2021 at 07:50, Cardiff_Fox said:

Quite sad stories reading of companies reliant on export completely losing sections of their business - in the process, losing jobs in this country as the businesses seek to move abroad. 

The red tape is horrendous and there are real issues.

So I have supplied 450 UK stores with a product for years, of which 20 of their stores are in Northern Ireland.

We can’t now supply the Northern Ireland stores as the owner of the product won’t supply the paperwork as it’s “only” 20 stores and so too much hassle for them. 

But the retailer is saying if we don’t supply their Northern Ireland stores we will lose the listings in all 450 stores.

So it’s likely we lose this business full stop.

There is now a border between us and Northern Ireland that didn’t used to be there.

 

I am not reliant on this, but other businesses are struggling massively and for others it could be the difference between jobs and livelyhoods.

 

I will be honest there is another bit of business I have walked away from as it’s too much hassle for us for little gain and so that’s another bit of business we all lose. 
 

Interesting is the fact that the government is shrugging its shoulders and saying this is how life is now, they are saying there is no other options, which I understand is fine as we were lead down this path but people didn’t realise what the implications would be. 

 

 

 

 

[Jon the Hat]

On 23/01/2021 at 11:16, fuchsntf said:

Wouldnt it also fair to say for countries like Greece,....That without the EU, they would be even struggling more...

still trying to Recover from Pure Internal corruption, and super rich, Not paying Taxes...

 

 

Hell no, Greece would have been able to devalue it's currency and boost exports and tourism if it weren't in the Euro. Disaster for them.

[Jon the Hat]

24 minutes ago, Rob1742 said:

The red tape is horrendous and there are real issues.

So I have supplied 450 UK stores with a product for years, of which 20 of their stores are in Northern Ireland.

We can’t now supply the Northern Ireland stores as the owner of the product won’t supply the paperwork as it’s “only” 20 stores and so too much hassle for them. 

But the retailer is saying if we don’t supply their Northern Ireland stores we will lose the listings in all 450 stores.

So it’s likely we lose this business full stop.

There is now a border between us and Northern Ireland that didn’t used to be there.

 

I am not reliant on this, but other businesses are struggling massively and for others it could be the difference between jobs and livelyhoods.

 

I will be honest there is another bit of business I have walked away from as it’s too much hassle for us for little gain and so that’s another bit of business we all lose. 
 

Interesting is the fact that the government is shrugging its shoulders and saying this is how life is now, they are saying there is no other options, which I understand is fine as we were lead down this path but people didn’t realise what the implications would be. 

Surely if you explain that the implications to the owner of the product of saying "it's just 20 stores" will be the loss of the whole deal they will change their answer?

[Carl the Llama]

18 minutes ago, Jon the Hat said:

Hell no, Greece would have been able to devalue it's currency and boost exports and tourism if it weren't in the Euro. Disaster for them.

Why do people assume this would just work when the biggest cause of their fiscal problems was corrupt governance, not being in the EU, it's just that since they've joined the issues that were already under the surface have been exposed to the light.  It's never going to be black and white but not joining would have allowed the corruption to continue unchecked at the cost of Greece's working class surely?