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Strokes

Getting brexit done!

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Just now, StanSP said:

Can't just be brushed off as 'there'll always be advantages and disadvantages to Brexit'. Especially not when the people who are suffering now i.e. their livelihoods, their earnings, their ability to feed themselves and their families, were perfectly fine when we were in the EU. Can't just expect them to brush it off as 'oh it'll be fine one day, but I'll suffer now for it and be a mug, just take it on the chin and do nothing about it'. 

 

Another example (which I hope you won't just see as a 'disadvantage') is the musicians/artists/performers in the entertainment industry now not being able to tour in EU countries without a visa. Might sound like a little thing if you're not personally affected by it but these people would earn a lot of their money from touring these places and getting income/sponsorships/sales from various tour dates. The point of this is that EU offered to keep visa-free travel for people in this industry but UK refused it. I can't figure out why. That industry is already dead on its feet as it is because of COVID. Maybe the government just expects them all to retrain in an IT job or something :dunno:

The Conservatives seem to be fully committed to fighting culture wars (as much as I hate the term now) and stuff like the visas for musicians, Rees-Mogg's comments on fish, etc are done because they know what the reaction will be, and they know that their supporters will get riled by whinging lefties and the I'm-European-not-British FBPE types on twitter.

 

I wonder if they are courting Scottish and Irish nationalism for the same reason.

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4 minutes ago, bovril said:

The Conservatives seem to be fully committed to fighting culture wars (as much as I hate the term now) and stuff like the visas for musicians, Rees-Mogg's comments on fish, etc are done because they know what the reaction will be, and they know that their supporters will get riled by whinging lefties and the I'm-European-not-British FBPE types on twitter.

 

I wonder if they are courting Scottish and Irish nationalism for the same reason.

Yeah, we've now got a government who are convinced that will retain them electoral success because they think that's what everyone who voted for them believes in. I think/hope they're wrong about that and that many people who did vote for them last time out will expect to see some real, tangible benefit to their own lives from this instead of just being content with seeing other people being made miserable.

 

 

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27 minutes ago, StanSP said:

Can't just be brushed off as 'there'll always be advantages and disadvantages to Brexit'. Especially not when the people who are suffering now i.e. their livelihoods, their earnings, their ability to feed themselves and their families, were perfectly fine when we were in the EU. Can't just expect them to brush it off as 'oh it'll be fine one day, but I'll suffer now for it and be a mug, just take it on the chin and do nothing about it'. 

 

Another example (which I hope you won't just see as a 'disadvantage') is the musicians/artists/performers in the entertainment industry now not being able to tour in EU countries without a visa. Might sound like a little thing if you're not personally affected by it but these people would earn a lot of their money from touring these places and getting income/sponsorships/sales from various tour dates. The point of this is that EU offered to keep visa-free travel for people in this industry but UK refused it. I can't figure out why. That industry is already dead on its feet as it is because of COVID. Maybe the government just expects them all to retrain in an IT job or something :dunno:

"The point of this is that EU offered to keep visa-free travel for people in this industry but UK refused it." 

 

Are you completely sure about that? I can appreciate why you wouldn't trust our Government but why automatically believe the EU politicians? They also have their own shysters. 

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21 minutes ago, Spudulike said:

"The point of this is that EU offered to keep visa-free travel for people in this industry but UK refused it." 

 

Are you completely sure about that? I can appreciate why you wouldn't trust our Government but why automatically believe the EU politicians? They also have their own shysters. 

Why would they lie? It seems like a pretty specific thing to make up and I've not seen anyone prove that they didn't offer to keep it?

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3 minutes ago, StanSP said:

Why would they lie? It seems like a pretty specific thing to make up and I've not seen anyone prove that they didn't offer to keep it?

No idea but I manage to not join in with the UK equals bad, EU equals good stuff. 

 

https://www.classicfm.com/music-news/eu-rejected-visa-free-tours-culture-secretary-oliver-dowden/

 

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52 minutes ago, StanSP said:

Can't just be brushed off as 'there'll always be advantages and disadvantages to Brexit'. Especially not when the people who are suffering now i.e. their livelihoods, their earnings, their ability to feed themselves and their families, were perfectly fine when we were in the EU. Can't just expect them to brush it off as 'oh it'll be fine one day, but I'll suffer now for it and be a mug, just take it on the chin and do nothing about it'. 

 

Another example (which I hope you won't just see as a 'disadvantage') is the musicians/artists/performers in the entertainment industry now not being able to tour in EU countries without a visa. Might sound like a little thing if you're not personally affected by it but these people would earn a lot of their money from touring these places and getting income/sponsorships/sales from various tour dates. The point of this is that EU offered to keep visa-free travel for people in this industry but UK refused it. I can't figure out why. That industry is already dead on its feet as it is because of COVID. Maybe the government just expects them all to retrain in an IT job or something :dunno:

Did they really? Visa-free travel for musicians right? Nobody else? Seems crazy that we wouldn't agree to such a simple idea. :rolleyes:

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30 minutes ago, Spudulike said:

"The point of this is that EU offered to keep visa-free travel for people in this industry but UK refused it." 

 

Are you completely sure about that? I can appreciate why you wouldn't trust our Government but why automatically believe the EU politicians? They also have their own shysters. 

Our lot admitted to it in the Commons today...

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-music-tours-visa-eu-b1789390.html

 

Regardless, is this kind of petty bollocks really the outcome people wanted when they ticked that box in 2016?

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3 hours ago, Voll Blau said:

Yeah, we've now got a government who are convinced that will retain them electoral success because they think that's what everyone who voted for them believes in. I think/hope they're wrong about that and that many people who did vote for them last time out will expect to see some real, tangible benefit to their own lives from this instead of just being content with seeing other people being made miserable.

 

 

I like what Starmer said on Marr the other weekend about making the best of it, even though he didn’t agree with it. 
That’s the kind of talk needed to give people that voted leave a real option. Without hopefully alienating the remain core vote.

I’ll only vote Tory in the next election if I have no other choice.

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3 hours ago, Voll Blau said:

Our lot admitted to it in the Commons today...

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-music-tours-visa-eu-b1789390.html

 

Regardless, is this kind of petty bollocks really the outcome people wanted when they ticked that box in 2016?

Of course not, it’s silly and petty as you say but this is not solely on the leave vote, this Tory MPs being cùnts for no real reason.

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I'm happy to try and make it work. It just would've been nice if Brexiters could have said "we'll have a hard Brexit which of course will have some downsides but we'll try and muddle through" back in 2016. Bit big to put on the side of a bus though. 

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17 hours ago, Spudulike said:

Fishing would've hardly been an issue if Barnier hadn't given us that enormous leverage on day one of the negotiations. Big mistake by Macron, an open goal, and Frost pounced on it. It wasn't forced on us by 'leavers' (whatever they were). 

 

What's 'left leaning' got to do with it?Most left leaners of a certain age are euro sceptics including the leader of the opposition at the time of the referendum. Have a read of the 1983 Labour manifesto to see what those on the left thought about the EEC. 

Quite. They will be the first people to moan when the Tories take away workers rights granted as part of the EU working Directive.

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Just now, Magictv said:

Experienced my first Brexit divedend yesterday when ordering some bike parts. Had to pay approx. 12% more than I would have done beacuse the EU supplier I was going to buy from would have meant a £12 customs fee from the delivery company.

 

On the bright side, watching videos of fishermen and truckers who voted out now moaning about the deal is bloody hilarious.

Great news for the UK company you bought from!

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20 hours ago, Spudulike said:

No idea but I manage to not join in with the UK equals bad, EU equals good stuff. 

 

https://www.classicfm.com/music-news/eu-rejected-visa-free-tours-culture-secretary-oliver-dowden/

 

Classic fm isn't exactly the first place I'd go for political news.  The truth is that both sides had versions of a deal where visa-free travel for artists was included.


Except according to this we didn't even engage with the EU on mobility.

Quote

An EU official told the Guardian the UK had turned down its standard proposal of 90 days’ work in a 180-day period at the discussion table on mobility. This proposal traditionally covers musicians, sports people and journalists but could have been expanded to include technical staff had the UK been willing to negotiate on freedom of movement, the official said.

“Would we have had an issue with it? Not necessarily. We were proposing our standard list [of exemptions]. If we had begun discussions in [mobility], maybe that would have been different. But the UK refused to engage in our discussions at all. That’s the most important point.”

The UK had also misinterpreted the meaning of “ad hoc”, the official added. The term is standard wording in its visa agreements, used to “differentiate from the situation of being permanently established somewhere”.

Under such an ad hoc arrangement, a British footballer could “play some games in the EU but could not come and play permanently for a club in the EU”, they said. Under its original proposal, they said that touring would remain possible as long as artists worked no more than 90 out of 180 days.

And according to this our proposal wouldn't have even addressed the issue anyway.

Quote

Having refused to include a chapter on mobility in the Brexit agreement, the UK government rejected the EU’s standard offer of visa-free short stays – working up to 90 days in a 180-day period – and a list of paid activity exemptions that could exclude musicians, artists, sportspeople and journalists from the requirement to seek visas to work in individual member states. This offer was incompatible with the Conservative manifesto commitment to taking back control of Britain’s borders, the government claimed.

Instead, the UK attempted to negotiate the issue via the short-term business visitor category and the category for contractual service suppliers and independent professionals known as Mode 4. The World Trade Organization says Mode 4 “does not concern persons seeking access to the employment market in the host member”.

Neither category covers musicians, said the EU spokesperson. It would also be ineffective: Mode 4 discussions are neutral on the matter of visas, meaning that requirements regarding entry and temporary stay continue to apply. Even if the EU had agreed to the UK’s proposal, British musicians would still be left facing the same red tape.

It sounds like we've fobbed them off and put our own deal down on the table saying take it or leave it.  They left it because "this is the UK’s existing standard policy and offered no added value to its members, and because it offered significantly less than the EU proposal at the mobility negotiation".  A cynic might suggest we only made an offer so the Tory media machine can spin the rejection.

 

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2 hours ago, Magictv said:

Experienced my first Brexit divedend yesterday when ordering some bike parts. Had to pay approx. 12% more than I would have done beacuse the EU supplier I was going to buy from would have meant a £12 customs fee from the delivery company.

 

On the bright side, watching videos of fishermen and truckers who voted out now moaning about the deal is bloody hilarious.

Fully expecting an endless swathe of “this isn’t what signed up for” type articles. 

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13 minutes ago, Innovindil said:

Japanese car maker Nissan has told the BBC its Sunderland plant is secure for the long term as a result of the trade deal reached between the UK and the EU.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-55757930

 

:D

 

This is as close to good Brexit news as we can get at the minute, I guess

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1 hour ago, BlueSi13 said:

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image.thumb.png.62b266e3fe4a0527c5c20f144ae6e0ec.png

 

 

 

Is our brilliant vaccine response compared to Europe down to Brexit then?

 

I thought it was to do with the fact its the Oxford vaccine as in the town in England where its made that has been approved. So we were always in line for a steady stream of vaccines Brexit or no Brexit. 

 

Not trolling genuinely interested in the case for Brexit effecting it. 

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5 minutes ago, The whole world smiles said:

Is our brilliant vaccine response compared to Europe down to Brexit then?

 

I thought it was to do with the fact its the Oxford vaccine as in the town in England where its made that has been approved. So we were always in line for a steady stream of vaccines Brexit or no Brexit. 

 

Not trolling genuinely interested in the case for Brexit effecting it. 

The EU have totally ****ed up the vaccine strategy. I don't know if that would've affected us especially as we were still in the SM and CU when we started vaccinating. 

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2 minutes ago, bovril said:

The EU have totally ****ed up the vaccine strategy. I don't know if that would've affected us especially as we were still in the SM and CU when we started vaccinating. 

Yeah I'm not really pro or anti Europe so I'm not coming at this from an agenda. but I'm struggling to join the dots as if your say Italy without a working vaccine being made and produced in your country its not gonna matter whether your in the EU or not the roll out will be slow because vaccinating the population is based on procuring approved vaccines and the whole rest of the world is also trying to procure them.

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