Coronavirus Thread

[Soup]

24 minutes ago, reynard said:

Not necessarily. Not sure when the J&J vaccine will be approved or indeed arrives but that is a one dose vaccine and I can see that being used for the later stages ie younger people.

I wouldn't want to travel anywhere in Europe right now. Their health systems are under massive pressure and more lockdows are happening or will happen. Illegal until at least 17th may in any case.

Let's hope they have more success with their vaccine than they did with their opioid rollout in the US . 

Edited 18 March 2021 by Soup

[KrefelderFox666]

52 minutes ago, Soup said:

Really,? I'm hearing that a negative test, or proof you've had covid as well as being vaccinated will be make it ok to travel. In the short term anyway.

This is how it should work really re vaccine passports.

 

Option 1 - You have had a vaccination (I think they should let you travel on one dose personally as it gives 90% or so protection anyway, as long as it was administered 3 weeks ago or whatever the timeframe is for it to properly kick in).

Option 2 - You have an antibody test (someone who has had the virus should have the same protection, if not better, than via the vaccine). Not sure how readily available these are at the minute though.

Option 3 - Have a test before you travel as currently.

 

That should be enough for countries to be safe in the knowledge that risk of viruses being brought into their countries is low.

 

The above is of course all based on what we know now with the limited data of antibody/vaccination impact.

[Chrysalis]

7 hours ago, Buce said:

No wonder Johnson is running scared of a public inquiry:

 

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/mar/18/delaying-englands-winter-lockdown-caused-up-to-27000-extra-covid-deaths

 

He can run but he can't hide:

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/mar/17/bereaved-families-issue-legal-ultimatum-to-boris-johnson-over-covid-inquiry

Did you see the BBC article a few days published by Laura? HE got hung out to dry, all the hesitancy in imposing lockdown apparently is Boris's fault.

[KrefelderFox666]

1 hour ago, Lcfc82 said:

There still saying there on course to vaccinate everyone as originally planned and the roadmap is still the same. 
We shall see though, I think the delay in April is more likely to stop many people going abroad for summer holidays 

Foreign countries who thrive off UK holidaymakers will do what they can to get their industry up and running for summer. Most will not survive another season without their income. Of course, they could always change their business plans but I doubt most will be able to.

 

From the UK's point of view, it is of course in the politicians best interest to delay foreign travel and in turn keep the revenue within the UK. Although I am not sure this is good news for the UK's public as demand will exceed supply and prices will get ridiculous. It's a shame for families who are bound by school holidays.

 

However, things still seem to be on track and fingers crossed this will be the only setback.

[Chrysalis]

4 hours ago, Sol thewall Bamba said:

Absolutely sickening if easing of restrictions is delayed due to a rumoured vaccine shortage. Very soon we will have given the first jab to groups making up 99% of deaths across the last year. Delaying for the remaining 1% would be insanity. Tbf I don't think many young people would bat an eyelid if the program of first doses was stopped completely and what was available was used to top up the vulnerable, as long as we remained on the original path outlined.  

The priority has always been healthcare, opening up if its delayed its delayed.

 

There is other issues with covid aside from death, its still can be very horrible for survivors not to mention the vaccination is not 100% effective, so you cannot just infect the most vulnerable and consider it job done.

 

But with that said no one has mentioned any delays to opening up.  But personally I would support delays, I feel the plan is extremely ambitious and risky.

Edited 18 March 2021 by Chrysalis

[Guest Lcfc82]

4 minutes ago, Chrysalis said:

Bit of an odd attitude, the priority has always been healthcare, opening up if its delayed its delayed.

 

There is other issues with covid aside from death, its still xcamn be very horrible for survivors not to mention the vaccination is not 100% effective, so you cannot just infect the most vulnerable and consider it job done.

 

But with that said no one has mentioned any delays to opening up.  But personally I would support delays, I feel the plan is extremely ambitious and risky.

You could argue that lockdowns are now more threatening to peoples wellbeing than covid is to peoples health.
The roadmap set out is extremely cautious anyway so you wouldn’t think it would need delaying any further. I certainly wouldn’t be supportive of further delays

[Soup]

15 minutes ago, KrefelderFox666 said:

This is how it should work really re vaccine passports.

 

Option 1 - You have had a vaccination (I think they should let you travel on one dose personally as it gives 90% or so protection anyway, as long as it was administered 3 weeks ago or whatever the timeframe is for it to properly kick in).

Option 2 - You have an antibody test (someone who has had the virus should have the same protection, if not better, than via the vaccine). Not sure how readily available these are at the minute though.

Option 3 - Have a test before you travel as currently.

 

That should be enough for countries to be safe in the knowledge that risk of viruses being brought into their countries is low.

 

The above is of course all based on what we know now with the limited data of antibody/vaccination impact.

I'm pretty sure BA want to do exactly this. Not a vaccine passports but more a health certificate. 

[Chrysalis]

11 minutes ago, Lcfc82 said:

You could argue that lockdowns are now more threatening to peoples wellbeing than covid is to peoples health.
The roadmap set out is extremely cautious anyway so you wouldn’t think it would need delaying any further. I certainly wouldn’t be supportive of further delays

Given we have had new waves every time we opened up I wouldnt consider it cautious, the plan basically has target dates for opening, which when we dont even know what will happen can hardly be called conservative.

 

I hope you not downplaying cvoid..

 

Covid can cause death regardless of age.

Covid can cause long term health problems regardless of age.

Covid impacts the entire health sector, so access to other types of health care is compromised.

Its not possible to establish a fully open sustained economy until covid is under control, the impatient who only seem to be concerned if they can go on holiday this summer, dont realise this and it does no one any favours if we can only open up for a few months and shut down again because we rushed it.

 

It concerns me when the only thing someone is worried about is when lockdown is been lifted.   

 

Unless the numbers skyrocket, Boris wont delay, he like yourself is very liberal and wants things open again, so you have little to worry about as long as the transmission levels dont shoot up again.

Edited 18 March 2021 by Chrysalis

[reynard]

48 minutes ago, Nuneatonfox in Manchester said:

I agree with you, both my parents have had the AZ and I’d have it today if I could, but if a whole country decides to drop the AZ completely the knock on effect would be huge.

Furthermore some people in other forums etc seem to be attributing this issue specifically to younger women, I know most healthcare workers have been jabbed but it would still be a relatively small sample in this country. Also in the countries who have suspended it, I think the concern is not the number of blood clot cases but the specific type of rare clot in a certain demographic, although I could be completely wrong about that.

My concern is if a global hault is called for to fully investigate or tweek it. Not to mention the ammunition this gives anti-vax lunatics. I personally could not cope with delays to the roadmap, it will tip me over the edge.

We will have to wait and see. I'd be amazed if a total hault was called. Simply too much at stake.

 

[reynard]

19 minutes ago, Chrysalis said:

The priority has always been healthcare, opening up if its delayed its delayed.

 

There is other issues with covid aside from death, its still can be very horrible for survivors not to mention the vaccination is not 100% effective, so you cannot just infect the most vulnerable and consider it job done.

 

But with that said no one has mentioned any delays to opening up.  But personally I would support delays, I feel the plan is extremely ambitious and risky.

Think this probably would do the job in a lot of cases.

Edited 18 March 2021 by reynard

[leicsmac]

1 minute ago, Chrysalis said:

Given we have had new waves every time we opened up I wouldnt consider it cautious, the plan basically has target dates for opening, which when we dont even know what will happen can hardly be called conservative.

 

I see you are downplaying the impact of covid so I can refresh your mind.

 

Covid can cause death regardless of age.

Covid can cause long term health problems regardless of age.

Covid impacts the entire health sector, so access to other types of health care is compromised.

Its not possible to establish a fully open sustained economy until covid is under control, the impatient who only seem to be concerned if they can go on holiday this summer, dont realise this and it does no one any favours if we can only open up for a few months and shut down again because we rushed it.

 

It concerns me when the only thing someone is worried about is when lockdown is been lifted.   

This is a massive concern that those who downplay the effects of Covid aren't seeming to grasp.

 

The deaths that result from this virus won't just be direct - there will be thousands, maybe more, of indirect deaths caused by undiagnosed cancers and other diseases due to resources being used to combat the more visible threat of Covid first. There's no way around that until Covid cases (or ones that require medical attention, anyway), drop to a degree where they and other diseases can be handled together once again without impairing one or the other.

[KrefelderFox666]

1 minute ago, Chrysalis said:

Given we have had new waves every time we opened up I wouldnt consider it cautious, the plan basically has target dates for opening, which when we dont even know what will happen can hardly be called conservative.

 

I see you are downplaying the impact of covid so I can refresh your mind.

 

Covid can cause death regardless of age.

Covid can cause long term health problems regardless of age.

Covid impacts the entire health sector, so access to other types of health care is compromised.

Its not possible to establish a fully open sustained economy until covid is under control, the impatient who only seem to be concerned if they can go on holiday this summer, dont realise this and it does no one any favours if we can only open up for a few months and shut down again because we rushed it.

 

It concerns me when the only thing someone is worried about is when lockdown is been lifted.   

I see your points but the question has to be asked, why can the country not open up in Summer once everyone at risk is fully vaccinated and even the majority of under 50s (who are at very low risk of serious health issues)? If not then, there is no hope in Autumn/Winter because the virus will thrive in colder conditions. Let's not forget that this virus is here to stay for the foreseeable future and we will have to manage to live with it.

 

Of course you could wait another year to open up the country's various sectors but the negative effects on people's livelihoods will suffer much more than through the virus. I think the roadmap is realistic. Whether all thresholds should be removed around the 21 June not sure but certainly the stages of easing make sense and are all backed up by certain requirements being met. If they are not met, I am sure the Government will have to assess the safety of moving into the next step of reopening.

 

I am sure people could cope with a couple weeks delay here and there but not months and months as business will drop like flies (the Government can only help so much).

[KrefelderFox666]

2 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

This is a massive concern that those who downplay the effects of Covid aren't seeming to grasp.

 

The deaths that result from this virus won't just be direct - there will be thousands, maybe more, of indirect deaths caused by undiagnosed cancers and other diseases due to resources being used to combat the more visible threat of Covid first. There's no way around that until Covid cases (or ones that require medical attention, anyway), drop to a degree where they and other diseases can be handled together once again without impairing one or the other.

Yes and this is certainly going to be one of the conditions of easing, re hospitalisations. It is not just bringing the number down to manageable levels for Covid patients, but manageable levels for normal healthcare to resume as before the pandemic (or at least close to). If there are signs that risk this, it should be considered for any easing steps and of course, circuit breakers should probably be used to minimise impacts of reacting too late and having full lockdown again. Something that must be avoided to save certain industries.

[Chrysalis]

Guys, This article published today I hope you can understand why I am coming across strongly.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-56422187

 

If you fit and healthy and think you wont need to rely on the healthcare service it may seem a little thing, but it really isnt.

[Chrysalis]

7 minutes ago, KrefelderFox666 said:

I see your points but the question has to be asked, why can the country not open up in Summer once everyone at risk is fully vaccinated and even the majority of under 50s (who are at very low risk of serious health issues)? If not then, there is no hope in Autumn/Winter because the virus will thrive in colder conditions. Let's not forget that this virus is here to stay for the foreseeable future and we will have to manage to live with it.

 

Of course you could wait another year to open up the country's various sectors but the negative effects on people's livelihoods will suffer much more than through the virus. I think the roadmap is realistic. Whether all thresholds should be removed around the 21 June not sure but certainly the stages of easing make sense and are all backed up by certain requirements being met. If they are not met, I am sure the Government will have to assess the safety of moving into the next step of reopening.

 

I am sure people could cope with a couple weeks delay here and there but not months and months as business will drop like flies (the Government can only help so much).

I think as long as hospitalisations are low the country will open up, although I am not convinced it will be full opening with no local lockdowns.  

[FoxesDeb]

1 hour ago, Lcfc82 said:

I hope you’re right. 
I think most countries will of wanted you to have had both doses of the vaccine, which would be an issue for many younger people.

I can't see Spain wanting that, we are nowhere near vaccinating people with both doses, but the tourism and hospitality sectors are desperate to open up for the summer. 

 

As an aside, we are just coming out of our third wave in Spain, and bars and restaurants will be allowed to open where I live until 22:30 from tomorrow, currently they are open but only until 6pm. Not sure it's the right thing to do when the cases are only just coming down, everywhere will be absolutely heaving this weekend no doubt with British non mask wearing old folk claiming it's all a conspiracy due to Brexit or some such other nonsense

[dsr-burnley]

17 minutes ago, Chrysalis said:

Given we have had new waves every time we opened up I wouldnt consider it cautious, the plan basically has target dates for opening, which when we dont even know what will happen can hardly be called conservative.

 

I hope you not downplaying cvoid..

 

I think in general, what people are downplaying is covid-now-we-have-a-vaccination.  A lot of people believe (me included) that the vaccinations will have such a strong effect that the damage of lockdown will exceed the benefit, because covid will not eb the threat it was.  There is no longer any need for the government to treat last year's pandemic - they need to treat this year's pandemic which we believe is much less severe because of the vaccine.

[Guest Lcfc82]

1 minute ago, dsr-burnley said:

I think in general, what people are downplaying is covid-now-we-have-a-vaccination.  A lot of people believe (me included) that the vaccinations will have such a strong effect that the damage of lockdown will exceed the benefit, because covid will not eb the threat it was.  There is no longer any need for the government to treat last year's pandemic - they need to treat this year's pandemic which we believe is much less severe because of the vaccine.

@Chrysalis this is what I was trying to get at. I’m not downplaying covid, I’ve had it myself and know people who have died due to it.

now we have vaccines that seem to be effective they should reduce hospitalisation and transmission to a level where we can live as normal. 
 

 

[Otis]

2 minutes ago, Lcfc82 said:

@Chrysalis this is what I was trying to get at. I’m not downplaying covid, I’ve had it myself and know people who have died due to it.

now we have vaccines that seem to be effective they should reduce hospitalisation and transmission to a level where we can live as normal. 
 

 

Yes they have. There is currently no excess death rate.

[st albans fox]

7 hours ago, Cardiff_Fox said:

He’s on one of his disappearing acts again at the moment. Where he goes missing for 2 to 3 weeks and avoids any limelight. 

He’s doing the presser today 
 

 

2 hours ago, yorkie1999 said:

Hancock reckons they need to re-test 1.2 million doses. If they are doses then they are already in their vials and can't be re-tested.

They are retesting the ‘stability’ of a batch (or something like that). They won’t test all the vials but enough carefully pre selected bits .... I’m not convinced by the excuse actually ...

[leicsmac]

8 minutes ago, dsr-burnley said:

I think in general, what people are downplaying is covid-now-we-have-a-vaccination.  A lot of people believe (me included) that the vaccinations will have such a strong effect that the damage of lockdown will exceed the benefit, because covid will not eb the threat it was.  There is no longer any need for the government to treat last year's pandemic - they need to treat this year's pandemic which we believe is much less severe because of the vaccine.

And when hospitalisations are down to an amount appreciable enough for the NHS to resume full-time work (or at least close to it) on other diseases and it is at least reasonably certain that opening up won't cause another spike, then this will be true and things should open up. Are we there yet?

 

[KrefelderFox666]

17 minutes ago, Chrysalis said:

I think as long as hospitalisations are low the country will open up, although I am not convinced it will be full opening with no local lockdowns.  

We can all hope, data is promising at the moment but we all know how quickly that can change. We will not have sufficient data on longevity of vaccinations and whether top-ups are needed for a good year at least.

 

I would not support local lockdowns again unless it is for short periods and they mass test in case of local hotspots or mutations. I don't agree with keeping a certain region locked down longer than neccessary because they are slightly above a threshold. It just needs better management. I think Leicester was shafted over the past year.

[Leicester_Loyal]

17 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

And when hospitalisations are down to an amount appreciable enough for the NHS to resume full-time work (or at least close to it) on other diseases and it is at least reasonably certain that opening up won't cause another spike, then this will be true and things should open up. Are we there yet?

 

You really come across as condescending sometimes, I've seen it numerous times now, it's not a great look.

[yorkie1999]

A whole year...we could have built a few hospitals in that time to help reduce the inevitable future burden on the NHS that has resulted from the lack of hospitalization and surgery on other illnesses.

[leicsmac]

9 minutes ago, Leicester_Loyal said:

You really come across as condescending sometimes, I've seen it numerous times now, it's not a great look.

Then I apologise for the tone.

 

I won't lie and not say my frustration gets the better of me sometimes and end up resorting to sarcasm or snark on here, but this time the question was in fact honest.

Edited 18 March 2021 by leicsmac