Meat and Disease

[Milo]

5 minutes ago, Wet Trump said:

I work for a food manufacturer and I think the general consensus is that meat consumption will reduce in the future and meat alternative consumption will increase. There are a lot of big retailers showing more and more interest in it.

 

There are loads of environmental issues surrounding farming and rearing cattle to produce meat. The Chinese have in the last few decades really got on board with refrigeration within the home which has increased their meat consumption ten fold - to a point in which U.K. pork had been supplying Chinese demands during the recent swine fever outbreak in China.

 

As I’ve mentioned previously, if it looks like meat, feels like meat and tastes like it then I’m more than happy to switch. I’ve heard some of the stuff being produced ticks all of those boxes, it’s just expensive to produce at the moment. I’d expect the balance to tip in the next 10 years where plant based “meat” is cheaper than actual meat and a lot more people will be consuming it.

 

Until then, I bloody love meat.

Beyond Meat burgers are really good. The family actually prefer them now to beef burgers. 

[David Guiza]

7 minutes ago, Milo said:

This conversation is probably worthy of it's own thread, without mixing it in with Coronavirus.

 

Viruses are generally not foodborne, so there is not a particular risk with eating meat. Some viruses can be associated with certain foods - the most common cases of viral contamination that I deal with are from Norovirus in oysters and very very occasionally Hep A.

 

The other consideration to keep in mind is that cooking food to the correct temperature will pretty much ensure that you won't get sick. 

 

My involvement with meat processing has been mixed, some places are good and some places are pretty awful - a couple of chicken places I've been in would seriously test your resolve about whether to continue to eat it or give it up. LTTC meat processing is pretty well controlled and have high standards. These are places that have to jump through hoops to sell items like burgers that can be sold cooked to medium rare, etc...the problem is that Joe Bloggs cafe sees that a place down the road can sell medium cooked burgers, so he'll give it a try with his Costco burgers that haven't been through such a controlled process.

 

I gave up eating meat in January - just to see if I could do it or not. Not really missed it, tbh. (Dishoom's jackfruit Biryani is an absolute hit. Heart of palm crabcakes and Tom Kerridge's sweet potato and black bean burritos are both easy crowd pleasers)! 

 

One thing I didn't really bank on is that I now can't really use any of my cooking equipment that I enjoyed so much. I have a sous vide machine and pretty fabulous smoker sitting idle. I used to love messing about with smoking different meats, trying overnight smokes or long sous vide low temperature cooking. I can't really see a 24 hour sous vide aubergine, or low temperature smoked kale holding quite the same appeal. 

 

I might re-introduce some meat back into my diet - but probably only as additions to meals rather than the main event. I used to eat chorizo with most things (I made a vegan version which tastes fab, but doesn't crisp up so isn't any good for cooking). Same with pancetta, I may start adding that into dishes - and it's that time of year to smoke the odd brisket, of course!!

 

 

      

That's effectively the conversation I was hoping to get across, along with the risk of an increase in disease from the

 

There have been plenty of topics on here in the past that have centered around veggies/meat eaters arguing the toss. My question was intended to be about whether the potential for further outbreak from poor conditions and bad practice in the meat industry, something that is far more likely with meat and dairy than any other food, has changed peoples perception and even made them cut down. It's unfortunately just one of those topics that gets peoples backs up sometimes. 

 

As an aside I'm pleased to see your transition is going well. I know a lot of it is tongue in cheek, but the perception that a vegan diet is boring is a little tiresome. I have eaten a far more varied diet as a veggie/vegan than I ever did as a meat eater simply because I had to, I also consume far more fruit and vegetables than I ever used to also.  

[Trumpet]

20 minutes ago, Milo said:

Beyond Meat burgers are really good. The family actually prefer them now to beef burgers. 

I’ve heard good things of them, I’ll have to give them a go!

[Fightforever]

Never even thought about giving up meat TBH. Looks like I'm going to have to eventually looking at how much it kills our environment.

[Guest Kopfkino]

The answer is obviously no. I don't tend to eat shite meat or fish so I'm largely confident in terms of processing and welfare.

 

Anyway, vegetarianism is weird. Fair play to vegans, they've set their stall out and are living by it, full respect for them. But can't be having vegetarians cos there's no reason to be vegetarian and not vegan.

 

Oh its cruel - why do you still consume dairy

Meat farming is bad for the environment - why do you still consume dairy

Meat is less healthy - why do you still consume dairy

There's disease in processing plants - that's why ovens exist

I don't like meat - yeah well I don't like apples but I don't feel the need to signal it to everyone by giving myself a special title. 

[Alf Bentley]

49 minutes ago, David Guiza said:

Suspect you may have replied before my latter response, but the issue I was raising was the fact that meat factories and the like have been likened to incubators for the disease. But yes, of course the factory conditions is something that needs to be addressed too, both from an ethical point of view and to prevent the spread of the/any disease. 

 

As above, in response to Alf, some articles make reference to meat factories effectively acting as incubator for the disease. Sure that's largely down to the environment of the factories themselves, but it's also down to what meat is. Some of the articles also have experts suggesting that further outbreaks are likely from meat too. 

 

The idea of the topic was just to see if people had changed their opinions on meat consumption and would they change further if concrete evidence was found, I didn't advocate that the whole world goes vegan. Despite the stereotype, I'm not somebody who mentions by dietary habits to every Tom, Dick and Harry, I just thought it was relevant given that the topic was literally about diets. The vast majority of my friends and family are meat eaters and it doesn't bother me in the slightest, I'd be quite the hypocrite to call people out for eating meat when I did so for the first 23/24 years of my life. 

 

I didn't want the topic to turn into an argument between veggies/vegans and meat eaters, but rather a discussion on whether one's perception has or will change as a result of this 'new world' that has been born out of the post lockdown world. 

 

To answer your original question: if concrete evidence emerged that meat consumption spreads coronavirus or other major disease, it's likely that I would stop eating meat. To be honest, that highlights the fact that my thinking is partly selfish - and that I'm much more interested in humans than animals (much as I like animals). That's not the whole story. I have considered going vegetarian or vegan in the past as I do find the arguments convincing - avoid unnecessary animal exploitation/cruelty, which it's now perfectly possible to do while still enjoying a healthy diet that is a pleasure to eat. It has largely been due to a lack of motivation that I've not done this (caring more about self & humanity than animals) - though, in my defence, I've had an awful lot to deal with over recent years so such a change seems like another major thing to deal with, when I already have plenty on my plate (pun noted, but not intended).

 

If life seems a bit more relaxed over coming years, I might well go veggie/vegan anyway for ethical reasons, but any definite connection between meat consumption and coronavirus/disease could tip the balance.

 

I haven't got the time to read all of your links, but have looked at a few. Where they referred to meat processing plants, they all seemed to refer to them as an "incubator" for coronavirus through human-to-human transmission.

If any of them present evidence for coronavirus spreading from meat to humans, could you highlight which ones?

 

There are different issues, further up the chain, over transmission from live animals to humans at wet markets - and presumably at slaughterhouses. There are also plenty of wider health and ethical issues over factory farming.

 

Yet if the issue is not transmission from meat to humans, but (1) transmission from live animals to humans; (2) transmission from humans to humans, that can be an argument for limiting contact between different animal species and between live animals and humans, and for changing how meat processing plants operate - to avoid workers spending too long close to one another or passing the virus on by touching the same items (meat, equipment, knives, whatever).

 

There are good arguments for vegetarianism/veganism, but I'm not sure coronavirus is one of them. A good argument for changing the way wet markets, factory farms, slaughterhouses and meat processing plants operate, though.

[Izzy]

37 minutes ago, Kopfkino said:

Anyway, vegetarianism is weird. Fair play to vegans, they've set their stall out and are living by it, full respect for them. But can't be having vegetarians cos there's no reason to be vegetarian and not vegan.

My wife’s vegetarian but not vegan. She’s vegetarian because she’s against murdering animals which is fair enough.

Shes not vegan because she likes cheese, milk and eggs and as far as I know, animals aren’t killed in that process.

I guess that’s the reason some people choose to be vegetarian and not vegan.

[Big Dave]

I do enjoy meat, but as a family we eat a lot less meat than we used to ‘generally’ being vegetarian midweek.  We did this for various reasons including health benefits and environmental concerns, particularly around red meat.

Yes, it is a bit strange and daunting at first, but if you carefully select a few cookbooks, there are many fantastic recipes available - it is not just about salads and crunching raw veg. In fact, some of our favourite recipes are now vegan recipes due to the flavours involved.

We still have roast meat on a Sunday and will have fish and chips walking to the KP or a pie a the game, we have just reduced what we consume.

When we do eat meat, we now try to buy meat of a higher welfare standard, and try to buy fish that is sustainable sourced.  It often costs just a small amount more, however the quality is often better.

Edited 22 June 2020 by Big Dave

[bmt]

1 hour ago, Wet Trump said:

I work for a food manufacturer and I think the general consensus is that meat consumption will reduce in the future and meat alternative consumption will increase. There are a lot of big retailers showing more and more interest in it.

 

There are loads of environmental issues surrounding farming and rearing cattle to produce meat. The Chinese have in the last few decades really got on board with refrigeration within the home which has increased their meat consumption ten fold - to a point in which U.K. pork had been supplying Chinese demands during the recent swine fever outbreak in China.

 

As I’ve mentioned previously, if it looks like meat, feels like meat and tastes like it then I’m more than happy to switch. I’ve heard some of the stuff being produced ticks all of those boxes, it’s just expensive to produce at the moment. I’d expect the balance to tip in the next 10 years where plant based “meat” is cheaper than actual meat and a lot more people will be consuming it.

 

Until then, I bloody love meat.

I'm similar to you although want to cut meat down anyway, but re: the above I encourage you to try 'beyond' (fake) beef burgers. They are really good.

[bmt]

4 minutes ago, Izzy said:

Shes not vegan because she likes cheese, milk and eggs and as far as I know, animals aren’t killed in that process.

What do you think happens to the male dairy cows (bulls)? 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/mar/26/dairy-dirty-secret-its-still-cheaper-to-kill-male-calves-than-to-rear-them

[Big Dave]

1 hour ago, Wet Trump said:

I work for a food manufacturer and I think the general consensus is that meat consumption will reduce in the future and meat alternative consumption will increase. There are a lot of big retailers showing more and more interest in it.

 

There are loads of environmental issues surrounding farming and rearing cattle to produce meat. The Chinese have in the last few decades really got on board with refrigeration within the home which has increased their meat consumption ten fold - to a point in which U.K. pork had been supplying Chinese demands during the recent swine fever outbreak in China.

 

As I’ve mentioned previously, if it looks like meat, feels like meat and tastes like it then I’m more than happy to switch. I’ve heard some of the stuff being produced ticks all of those boxes, it’s just expensive to produce at the moment. I’d expect the balance to tip in the next 10 years where plant based “meat” is cheaper than actual meat and a lot more people will be consuming it.

 

Until then, I bloody love meat.

I enjoy meat too, but I do have a bit of a problem with some of this ‘fake meat’. 
If you are making a vegetarian chilli for example, just get a good recipe and used finely chopped veg rather than quorn. Personally, I find this much tastier, plus it is full of fibre and loads of different vitamins etc.

[RonnieTodger]

I find people that moan about vegans far more annoying than any vegan I've ever met. 

[Izzy]

9 minutes ago, bmt said:

What do you think happens to the male dairy cows (bulls)? 

 

No idea. And can’t say I’m really bothered being a fully fledged meat eater 

[Ric Flair]

1 hour ago, Milo said:

This conversation is probably worthy of it's own thread, without mixing it in with Coronavirus.

 

Viruses are generally not foodborne, so there is not a particular risk with eating meat. Some viruses can be associated with certain foods - the most common cases of viral contamination that I deal with are from Norovirus in oysters and very very occasionally Hep A.

 

The other consideration to keep in mind is that cooking food to the correct temperature will pretty much ensure that you won't get sick. 

 

My involvement with meat processing has been mixed, some places are good and some places are pretty awful - a couple of chicken places I've been in would seriously test your resolve about whether to continue to eat it or give it up. LTTC meat processing is pretty well controlled and have high standards. These are places that have to jump through hoops to sell items like burgers that can be sold cooked to medium rare, etc...the problem is that Joe Bloggs cafe sees that a place down the road can sell medium cooked burgers, so he'll give it a try with his Costco burgers that haven't been through such a controlled process.

 

I gave up eating meat in January - just to see if I could do it or not. Not really missed it, tbh. (Dishoom's jackfruit Biryani is an absolute hit. Heart of palm crabcakes and Tom Kerridge's sweet potato and black bean burritos are both easy crowd pleasers)! 

 

One thing I didn't really bank on is that I now can't really use any of my cooking equipment that I enjoyed so much. I have a sous vide machine and pretty fabulous smoker sitting idle. I used to love messing about with smoking different meats, trying overnight smokes or long sous vide low temperature cooking. I can't really see a 24 hour sous vide aubergine, or low temperature smoked kale holding quite the same appeal. 

 

I might re-introduce some meat back into my diet - but probably only as additions to meals rather than the main event. I used to eat chorizo with most things (I made a vegan version which tastes fab, but doesn't crisp up so isn't any good for cooking). Same with pancetta, I may start adding that into dishes - and it's that time of year to smoke the odd brisket, of course!!

 

     

 

 

 

 

 

      

From the outside looking in there are far more pro's than con's here for you to go back to eating meat! I am very passionate about cooking appliances such as smokers, BBQ's, wood fired ovens (pizza) etc and this is the thing that always brings me back to cooking and eating meat in large and vast quantities. There's just very little excitement with cooking with vegetables.

 

I invest a lot of time and effort in to cooking vegetable side dishes and accompaniments and do eat vegetarian meals but they are worlds apart in terms of creative passion. I also can't give up meat for the brilliant pastime of just eating packs of ham or spooning sandwich fillings straight out of the tub whilst stood in the kitchen. My missus would disagree with this as she is very fond of various raw vegetables and hummus and just thinking about that fills me with disdain and anger, although I often remind her of which is superior by throwing both at the dog and seeing the reaction. The ham will be snaffled out the air at a speed of knots, the vegetables will bring a moment of hesitation as she allows it to hit the ground first before deciding whether to proceed.

 

I'll replace meat with plant based alternatives as a last resort and until it's anywhere near as good as the real thing, otherwise I think life is a little less exciting. I am fully aware of how arrogant and righteous that probably makes me sound, but we're top of the food chain and someone's got to defend it hahahaaa.

[bmt]

13 minutes ago, Izzy said:

No idea. And can’t say I’m really bothered being a fully fledged meat eater 

Fair enough - I'm a meat eater too, just don't really buy the veggie argument as dairy is fundamentally intertwined with meat consumption/animal disposal.

[Izzy]

5 minutes ago, bmt said:

Fair enough - I'm a meat eater too, just don't really buy the veggie argument as dairy is fundamentally intertwined with meat consumption/animal disposal.

That's new information to me.

 

And rest assured I'll be using it against the wife next time we have an argument 

[Benguin]

4 hours ago, David Guiza said:

As there seems to be increasing links between meat farms/factories/markets and coronavirus, both domestically and across the world, has your opinion on meat consumption changed at all, and would you consider giving meat up altogether if concrete evidence were found between the two? Do you think that our food standards are significantly better than places like China and consequently there's far less of an issue here? Perhaps you're aware of the risk, but nothing is worth giving up meat for? It's all hypothetical at this point, of course, but numerous studies predicted some sort of animal based outbreak prior to this, and have not ruled out future and perhaps even more deadly outbreaks from a similar source. 

 

I'm a veggie and try to eat vegan whenever I can, same with a few posters on here I think. I've only been veggie for about 5 years and there was certainly a time when I'd have laughed at the suggestion that I'd even consider it once or twice a week, but there's not really anything I miss about it now, particularly thanks to a huge increase in veggie/vegan alternatives in supermarkets/restaurants, cafes etc. 

 

This isn't a pressure group aimed at converting the masses, honest , I just thought it would make for an interesting topic. 

Since the fall of man, creatures of the earth have served as food. We should never go out of our way to harm animals but for the fulfillment of our appetites. I will continue to eat meat but am always open for supporting ways that make this more ethical 

[David Guiza]

54 minutes ago, Kopfkino said:

The answer is obviously no. I don't tend to eat shite meat or fish so I'm largely confident in terms of processing and welfare.

 

Anyway, vegetarianism is weird. Fair play to vegans, they've set their stall out and are living by it, full respect for them. But can't be having vegetarians cos there's no reason to be vegetarian and not vegan.

 

Oh its cruel - why do you still consume dairy

why do you still consume dairy

Meat is less healthy - why do you still consume dairy

that's why ovens exist

. 

Appreciate the sentiment, but there are countless reasons why somebody might call themselves a vegetarian and not a vegan. I am practically vegan but I don't particularly like the term because of all that comes with it. I also would find it a little hypocritical to call myself one if I were to eat even the tiniest amount of dairy, for the same reason that I wouldn't call somebody who had sex once a decade a virgin. 

 

Meat farming is bad for the environment - Some people become vegetarian because they care about the ethics, but don't have the will power to give up dairy, so what? Yes it would hypocritical if this was their circumstances, but lectured their peers on animal cruelty, but most veggies just get on with their lives, same as meat eaters.

 

Meat is less healthy - I would suggest that very few people give up meat for health reasons but continue to consume dairy, and even then it's about moderation. 

 

There's disease in processing plants - I don't think many or even any have given up meat as a result of this, and if they did then that's their prerogative. Air travel is a fear of thousands of people even though it's completely safe on the main, but if travelling by car/train makes somebody feel more at ease or somebody feels safer from giving up meat as a result of this then what's the issue?

 

I don't like meat - yeah well I don't like apples but I don't feel the need to signal it to everyone by giving myself a special title - The most bizarre of all your arguments. Not eating an entire food group that is present in almost every supermarket, cafe, restaurant, services, is a little different to not liking apples. I dare say that somebody who does not like apples has never had to avoid a particular restaurant because they serve exclusively apple based dishes? 

 

I get your point in that the veggies who are trying to induce guilt in meat eaters are somewhat hypocritical given that the dairy industry is an awful thing, but on the whole most veggies/vegans keep it to themselves and are just trying to limit their impact on the environment/animal cruelty wherever possible. It's impossible to be completely virtuous in life, but I admire those who do what they can without limiting their enjoyment completely. I'm sure you have things that you feel passionately about that conflict with other interests you have. 

 

45 minutes ago, Alf Bentley said:

 

To answer your original question: if concrete evidence emerged that meat consumption spreads coronavirus or other major disease, it's likely that I would stop eating meat. To be honest, that highlights the fact that my thinking is partly selfish - and that I'm much more interested in humans than animals (much as I like animals). That's not the whole story. I have considered going vegetarian or vegan in the past as I do find the arguments convincing - avoid unnecessary animal exploitation/cruelty, which it's now perfectly possible to do while still enjoying a healthy diet that is a pleasure to eat. It has largely been due to a lack of motivation that I've not done this (caring more about self & humanity than animals) - though, in my defence, I've had an awful lot to deal with over recent years so such a change seems like another major thing to deal with, when I already have plenty on my plate (pun noted, but not intended).

 

If life seems a bit more relaxed over coming years, I might well go veggie/vegan anyway for ethical reasons, but any definite connection between meat consumption and coronavirus/disease could tip the balance.

 

I haven't got the time to read all of your links, but have looked at a few. Where they referred to meat processing plants, they all seemed to refer to them as an "incubator" for coronavirus through human-to-human transmission.

If any of them present evidence for coronavirus spreading from meat to humans, could you highlight which ones?

 

There are different issues, further up the chain, over transmission from live animals to humans at wet markets - and presumably at slaughterhouses. There are also plenty of wider health and ethical issues over factory farming.

 

Yet if the issue is not transmission from meat to humans, but (1) transmission from live animals to humans; (2) transmission from humans to humans, that can be an argument for limiting contact between different animal species and between live animals and humans, and for changing how meat processing plants operate - to avoid workers spending too long close to one another or passing the virus on by touching the same items (meat, equipment, knives, whatever).

 

There are good arguments for vegetarianism/veganism, but I'm not sure coronavirus is one of them. A good argument for changing the way wet markets, factory farms, slaughterhouses and meat processing plants operate, though.

That's completely fair enough, the transition from meat eater to veggie/vegan/pescatarian or whatever it may is easier than it ever has been in the west, but it's still a big change and even more so the longer you have been a meat eater. Not that I am being age discriminatory . I would likely still be a meat eater now if it wasn't for moving in with my now wife, she never for one moment set out to convert me, not all vegans/veggies are militant in their desire to convert, it just came naturally because she does the majority of the cooking and I began to read more on the subject. You're always welcome round for a lentil bolognese, Alf!

 

There seems to be little to no evidence of meat to human transmission, but that's not to say an increase in zoonotic diseases (a new word I learnt today) may increase the chance that a deadly virus passing that way in future. That is of course conjecture, but relying on meat being properly cooked all the time isn't ideal. There's an interesting article on zoonotic disease on National Geographic if you have the time - https://www.nationalgeographic.co.uk/science-and-technology/2020/04/how-do-infections-coronavirus-jump-animals-people

 

As an animal rights advocate, and just as somebody who doesn't want another global pandemic, I do hope this disease changes the outlook on things like wet markets and beyond, but capitalism and profits suggests that we will likely return to old ways as has already been reported in China so far as I'm aware. 

[Big Dave]

To those hardened meat eaters, borrow or buy a good veggie cook book and try some different meals - you may really enjoy them.

 

Try and limit the amount of meat you consume (it really is bad for the environment).

 

When buying meat and animal products, please try and choose higher welfare standards if you can. They may be a little more, but worth the small amount extra (or buy a smaller portion).  Have you seen the conditions that battery chickens live in?  Paying a little more is worth it to know that the animal who provided the food lived a good, healthy life.

[Jattdogg]

2 hours ago, David Guiza said:

That's effectively the conversation I was hoping to get across, along with the risk of an increase in disease from the

 

There have been plenty of topics on here in the past that have centered around veggies/meat eaters arguing the toss. My question was intended to be about whether the potential for further outbreak from poor conditions and bad practice in the meat industry, something that is far more likely with meat and dairy than any other food, has changed peoples perception and even made them cut down. It's unfortunately just one of those topics that gets peoples backs up sometimes. 

 

As an aside I'm pleased to see your transition is going well. I know a lot of it is tongue in cheek, but the perception that a vegan diet is boring is a little tiresome. I have eaten a far more varied diet as a veggie/vegan than I ever did as a meat eater simply because I had to, I also consume far more fruit and vegetables than I ever used to also.  

Bloody vegans and vegetarians buying up all the fruits, veges, seeds, beans, lentils and driving up the prices! 

 

As a side note (totally ignorant here but..) if everyone stopped eating meat and we all became a combination of vegetarian or vegan do we have enough farming infrastructure to support it? I assume we would convert meat farms to vegetables etc but you can't grow veges all year long here in Canada without greenhouses etc. Genuine  ask because i really don't know.

 

I find as i get older I'm  eating smaller portions of meat. A burger is a burger but if i'm having steak then it's small compared to what i used to eat. If i'm making a chicken pasta for us 4 then 1 chicken breast is all we put in. The kids dont complain plus they get veges with it to fill them up.

 

Growing up in your typical indian household we had different sabjis (vege curry) and daals/lentils so i appreciate and enjoy that.

 

Anyhow, eat what you like, enjoy your life and be happy.

Edited 22 June 2020 by Jattdogg

[foxfanazer]

4 hours ago, Strokes said:

Happily give up all meat except pork, beef chicken and fish.

You're a better man than me, I love a bit of lamb

[Ric Flair]

26 minutes ago, Big Dave said:

To those hardened meat eaters, borrow or buy a good veggie cook book and try some different meals - you may really enjoy them.

 

Try and limit the amount of meat you consume (it really is bad for the environment).

 

When buying meat and animal products, please try and choose higher welfare standards if you can. They may be a little more, but worth the small amount extra (or buy a smaller portion).  Have you seen the conditions that battery chickens live in?  Paying a little more is worth it to know that the animal who provided the food lived a good, healthy life.

This really is key. I am a food fanatic and I like to think I constantly try to find new recipes to keep things interesting. The difficulty is vegetarian dishes for me, have to pack a bit more flavour and sometimes take more time and effort than putting together a meat dish where the combination of meat and vegetables and/or some form of carbohydrates can be simpler but more wholesome.

 

I try to do a couple of vegetarian meals a week but on the whole my week will be more focused on eating meat. I will sometimes have in excess of 5-6 different meats a day over the 3 meals and snacks. Embarrassingly I will consume packs of cooked meat as a snack, fcukin love it.

 

I like to think I have spent the last 36 years preparing myself for pandemics by eating heinous tinned meats and the health conscious will be the ones in trouble, but in reality i'm just a cretin. Mini chicken kievs cobs for tea tonight.

[Dahnsouff]

2 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

This really is key. I am a food fanatic and I like to think I constantly try to find new recipes to keep things interesting. The difficulty is vegetarian dishes for me, have to pack a bit more flavour and sometimes take more time and effort than putting together a meat dish where the combination of meat and vegetables and/or some form of carbohydrates can be simpler but more wholesome.

 

I try to do a couple of vegetarian meals a week but on the whole my week will be more focused on eating meat. I will sometimes have in excess of 5-6 different meats a day over the 3 meals and snacks. Embarrassingly I will consume packs of cooked meat as a snack, fcukin love it.

 

I like to think I have spent the last 36 years preparing myself for pandemics by eating heinous tinned meats and the health conscious will be the ones in trouble, but in reality i'm just a cretin. Mini chicken kievs cobs for tea tonight.

I thought coming from Leicestershire that this was actually a bylaw??  

[don_danbury]

1 hour ago, Izzy said:

My wife’s vegetarian but not vegan. She’s vegetarian because she’s against murdering animals which is fair enough.

Shes not vegan because she likes cheese, milk and eggs and as far as I know, animals aren’t killed in that process.

I guess that’s the reason some people choose to be vegetarian and not vegan.

well she needs to become vegan if she wants to cut animal murdering out completely. as someone else said, if someone is a veggie because of the animal cruelty then it's pretty pointless. 

[Steve_Guppy_Left_Foot]

To me meat is the focal point of most of my evening meals. I know vegetarians and my problem with it is the replacement meat like quorn etc, you have a bite and think ooh that's nice but then by the 4th or 5th bite (be it sausages, burgers or chicken in my experience) there's just such a stale over riding cardboard after taste and its truly hideous and ruins the entire meal. The meals I don't have meat with can be lovely and I enjoy them, if fake meat was better I'd consider it but until then I just love a burger or a bacon sandwich too much to seriously consider it.