Meat and Disease

[Milo]

19 minutes ago, JonnyBoy said:

I'm doing veganuary for the sake of losing some christmas timber. You do feel great on it, more energy and don't feel sluggish and tired after meal times and don't need a coffee to sh*t in the mornings. I'm doing it properly so none of this meat alternative take-away style foods that are just as bad. 

 

Only downside is planning and food shop about 30% more expensive 

Be careful, mate. I did Veganuary last year...then thought I’d keep it up for another month...and another. I then thought I’d see if I could do a year meat free. 

That meat free year ended ended a couple of weeks ago, and I thought I’d treat myself to a bacon sarnie to celebrate, and maybe introduce the odd meat meal into my diet...but it hasn’t happened yet. 
 

I’ve a nagging suspicion that this might be it...I might have morphed into a veggie 😬

 

And prior to last year, I was most definitely a happy, fully blown, blokey carnivore! 

[JonnyBoy]

16 minutes ago, Milo said:

Be careful, mate. I did Veganuary last year...then thought I’d keep it up for another month...and another. I then thought I’d see if I could do a year meat free. 

That meat free year ended ended a couple of weeks ago, and I thought I’d treat myself to a bacon sarnie to celebrate, and maybe introduce the odd meat meal into my diet...but it hasn’t happened yet. 
 

I’ve a nagging suspicion that this might be it...I might have morphed into a veggie 😬

 

And prior to last year, I was most definitely a happy, fully blown, blokey carnivore! 

 

The missus has already started feeding into this idea.. she mentioned about carrying this on after January!! Got to say you do feel great and obviously a lot healthier goes without saying. vegetarian is so much easier a lot more choice, think i miss cheese the most as the milk alternatives are actually quite nice  

 

I've spent a fair bit of money on those Bosh books that seem quite popular. Tonights menu ... vegetable thai green curry with home made naan bread. Oh and to top it off i'm doing dry Jan so got a zero % heineken definitely best on the market. 

[dsr-burnley]

35 minutes ago, JonnyBoy said:

 

 vegetarian is so much easier a lot more choice ...

Huh?  How can a restricted diet have more choice than an unrestricted diet?

[Guest seanfox778]

Just now, dsr-burnley said:

Huh?  How can a restricted diet have more choice than an unrestricted diet?

I think he meant when compared to Vegan.

[dsr-burnley]

16 minutes ago, seanfox778 said:

I think he meant when compared to Vegan.

Oh, thanks.

[MrsJohnMurphy]

Is it true vegans don't eat figs?

[yorkie1999]

3 minutes ago, MrsJohnMurphy said:

Is it true vegans don't eat figs?

And meat eaters

[Nalis]

Trying to cut down the amount of meat I eat, probably down to 4 evening meals a week and that also includes fish. 

 

Quality of Quorn has improved over the years too. 

 

Dont think I cpuld cut it out completely.

[Pliskin]

Right.....

 

 

As this is my industry there’s a few things to mention.

 

There is no overwhelming evidence at all to suggest lean cuts of good quality meat are not good for us, or does good quality meat contribute the the spread of diseases. 
 

There is no need to stop eating meat for health reasons, red meat has a very tenuous link to cancers and processed meats such as sausage and bacon for example.... but the consumption of said meats would have to be very high. 
 

In terms of impact on health and diet, it is more the lack of fruit and veg in people diets along with other lifestyle choices not the fact they eat meat.

 

The impact of meat on the planet is not such an issue here as our standards of farming are excellent and ecologically friendly, it’s the shipping of meats from over seas that is our downfall and other nations such as America and China that heavily battery farm which cause the issues. 
 

In short, if you want to be healthier you don’t need to cut out meat, you just need to ensure you include more diverse plant based options into your diet, it’s fine to be veggie and vegan too, it’s not going to be detrimental to your health and may encourage healthier life choices. Just do what’s right for you, and if you want to cut your meat down then that’s fine, but there’s no need to cut it down for health reasons if you’re eating good lean cuts of meat. 
 

 

[Milo]

5 hours ago, MrsJohnMurphy said:

Is it true vegans don't eat figs?

Apparently. And honey. 

[Guest Kopfkino]

44 minutes ago, Pliskin said:

Right.....

 

 

As this is my industry there’s a few things to mention.

 

There is no overwhelming evidence at all to suggest lean cuts of good quality meat are not good for us, or does good quality meat contribute the the spread of diseases. 
 

There is no need to stop eating meat for health reasons, red meat has a very tenuous link to cancers and processed meats such as sausage and bacon for example.... but the consumption of said meats would have to be very high. 
 

In terms of impact on health and diet, it is more the lack of fruit and veg in people diets along with other lifestyle choices not the fact they eat meat.

 

The impact of meat on the planet is not such an issue here as our standards of farming are excellent and ecologically friendly, it’s the shipping of meats from over seas that is our downfall and other nations such as America and China that heavily battery farm which cause the issues. 
 

In short, if you want to be healthier you don’t need to cut out meat, you just need to ensure you include more diverse plant based options into your diet, it’s fine to be veggie and vegan too, it’s not going to be detrimental to your health and may encourage healthier life choices. Just do what’s right for you, and if you want to cut your meat down then that’s fine, but there’s no need to cut it down for health reasons if you’re eating good lean cuts of meat. 
 

 

Tbh, I don’t think you can make an argument to say that meat isn’t a bad choice environmentally wherever it comes from. It’s obviously inefficient to feed and water an animal for us to eat rather than just eating the product of the land that feeds an animal. Even if you eat high standard meat from the UK, it’s feed could well be sourced from somewhere with an undesirable environmental impact. On the flip side, many veggie/vegans won’t check the provenance of their food and might well be surprised by some of the horror shows that might show up environmentally.
 

For example, upland sheep farming is pretty bad ecologically and something we do quite a lot of in the UK and whilst people might still think the Lake District pretty, it’s ecologically grim compared to what it should be and a big part of that is sheep farming. Whilst not a hugely popular food source, pheasant in the UK is a bit of an ecological disaster.

 

On the flip side, the fact that venison isn’t more popular is bad ecologically because it means we’re not particularly good at managing deer populations and this is a particular problem for forests in the highlands.

 

But obviously I agree that you can enjoy meat in a more environmentally responsible  and healthy way rather than having to cut it out. As you say, poor diet in general is a far bigger problem than eating meat. Maybe deciding to be veggie/vegan is a trigger to add healthier options to improve their general diet but you can make those improvements whilst eating meat. I’ve also known a few that eat just as much crap but think they’re healthier cos they can say they’re veggie/vegan. There is a tonne of processed vegan stuff now that nobody has any idea what it is

[JonnyBoy]

after Veganuary I will re-introduce meat (i think) but do what i did last year and only eat meat at the weekends and ensure it is from a good source i.e. butchers rather than supermarket.  

 

There is no straight right or wrong answer with what is the perfect diet it just goes round in circles, personally i think the most important aspect is how much fruit/veg/fibre you are getting in your diet. once you ensure these are the main bulk of your meals then having some good quality meat/fish is a good thing. 

 

being vegan but eating junk vegan food is far worse than eating meat/fish along with a balanced diet 

[Pliskin]

9 minutes ago, Kopfkino said:

Tbh, I don’t think you can make an argument to say that meat isn’t a bad choice environmentally wherever it comes from. It’s obviously inefficient to feed and water an animal for us to eat rather than just eating the product of the land that feeds an animal. Even if you eat high standard meat from the UK, it’s feed could well be sourced from somewhere with an undesirable environmental impact. On the flip side, many veggie/vegans won’t check the provenance of their food and might well be surprised by some of the horror shows that might show up environmentally.
 

For example, upland sheep farming is pretty bad ecologically and something we do quite a lot of in the UK and whilst people might still think the Lake District pretty, it’s ecologically grim compared to what it should be and a big part of that is sheep farming. Whilst not a hugely popular food source, pheasant in the UK is a bit of an ecological disaster.

 

On the flip side, the fact that venison isn’t more popular is bad ecologically because it means we’re not particularly good at managing deer populations and this is a particular problem for forests in the highlands.

 

But obviously I agree that you can enjoy meat in a more environmentally responsible  and healthy way rather than having to cut it out. As you say, poor diet in general is a far bigger problem than eating meat. Maybe deciding to be veggie/vegan is a trigger to add healthier options to improve their general diet but you can make those improvements whilst eating meat. I’ve also known a few that eat just as much crap but think they’re healthier cos they can say they’re veggie/vegan. There is a tonne of processed vegan stuff now that nobody has any idea what it is

I do agree with you and particularly with red meat farming, it isn’t the best ecologically, however, in comparison to other countries we are relatively small fry, and our farming methods are more sustainable than others. Supermarkets are a huge problem.... before the population exploded villages were self sufficient, butchers, green grocers and bakers kept the town fed, now thanks to our growing demand supermarkets are having to source more food, so we’re shipping meat and produce from anywhere, especially in winter. 
 

You are also right about vegetation. I’ve got berries in my fridge from Cuba, I’ve also got some avocado from Brazil and a packet of tomato’s from Spain....... just because it’s fruit and veg it does not mean it is ecologically friendly, because that clearly isn’t. 
 

I think people have got to be careful when researching, because at the moment plant based is sexy, and along with some horribly put together Netflix documentaries, sections of the public are buying into it. 
 

My advice does come from a more nutritional background, and you’re so right when you say a lot of vegan foods are crap, because it is, most of if not all of the “meat substitutes” are actually of no nutritional substance at all, good old fruit and veg is the only way forward if you want to be a veggie. 
 

My point mainly is being vegan does not make you are healthier than someone who consumes lean, food quality meat and lives a good active lifestyle. 

[ozleicester]

14 hours ago, MrsJohnMurphy said:

Is it true vegans don't eat figs?

News to me... Figs are a big part of the diet of some of my V friends.

Where did you hear it,,, Any idea why?

 

8 hours ago, Milo said:

Apparently. And honey. 

true for honey. in my experience Vs dont eat it as it is produced by the bees to feed their young, so its harmful when harvested.

[Buce]

14 hours ago, MrsJohnMurphy said:

Is it true vegans don't eat figs?

 

Some of the more extreme vegans don't, that's true.

 

The reason is due to how figs are pollenated; unlike most flowers, figs are pollenated by wasps, a process that often leads to the wasp dying and being disolved by enzimes in the flower, which are then absorbed as nutrients.

[Milo]

1 hour ago, ozleicester said:

News to me... Figs are a big part of the diet of some of my V friends.

Where did you hear it,,, Any idea why?

 

true for honey. in my experience Vs dont eat it as it is produced by the bees to feed their young, so its harmful when harvested.

I think figs because of the wasps inside? 
 

But probably only the more militant vegans, I’d guess. 

[Greg2607]

I've gone vegan for health reasons. If you look at the links between cancer and heart disease and eating meat and dairy it's scary. 

 

Two documentaries to watch if you are interested on Netflix.

 

What the health and the game changers. 

 

They will really open your eyes. 

 

Technically, I've gone whole food plant based in the main.  I've got a history of heart disease in my family and a friend died of a heart attack last year at 48. 

 

Scared me into changing my lifestyle. 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited 17 January 2021 by Greg2607

[whoareyaaa]

5 minutes ago, Greg2607 said:

I've gone vegan for health reasons. If you look at the links between cancer and heart disease and eating milk and dairy it's scary. 

 

Two documentaries to watch if you are interested on Netflix.

 

What the health and the game changers. 

 

They will really open your eyes. 

 

Technically, I've gone whole food plant based in the main.  I've got a history of heart disease in my family and a friend died of s heart attack last year at 48. 

 

Scared me into changing my lifestyle. 

 

 

 

 

 

That game changers is a good watch, the bloke is from Leicester who hosts it.

 

A lot of athletes are vegans, Usain Bolt for example..

 

I'm trying but its hard to cut meat out when you've been having it so long never mind the dairy stuff

 

Strong as an ox, an ox eats grass.

[Greg2607]

We bought a load of vegan cookbooks.  It was a BIG change at first.  Not having that focal point of a meal (the meat).

 

But you find new recipes and meals and I don't miss meat at all these days. 

 

I try to avoid meat replacement type products, as clearly, they don't really compare. 

 

I also don't even like milk these days. Oat milk all the way for me. 

 

Edited 17 January 2021 by Greg2607

[Samilktray]

A lot of the meat substitutes aren’t amazing but Beyond Burgers are unreal. Well worth the price tag in my opinion

[Oxfordfox83]

2 hours ago, whoareyaaa said:

That game changers is a good watch, the bloke is from Leicester who hosts it.

 

A lot of athletes are vegans, Usain Bolt for example..

 

I'm trying but its hard to cut meat out when you've been having it so long never mind the dairy stuff

 

Strong as an ox, an ox eats grass.

Even if he is now, he certainly wasn’t when he was an athlete: https://time.com/3912896/usain-bolt-chicken-mcnuggets-olympics/

 

1000 McNuggets in 10 days: you need to up your game @Ric Flair

[JonnyBoy]

On 16/01/2021 at 23:31, Pliskin said:

I do agree with you and particularly with red meat farming, it isn’t the best ecologically, however, in comparison to other countries we are relatively small fry, and our farming methods are more sustainable than others. Supermarkets are a huge problem.... before the population exploded villages were self sufficient, butchers, green grocers and bakers kept the town fed, now thanks to our growing demand supermarkets are having to source more food, so we’re shipping meat and produce from anywhere, especially in winter. 
 

You are also right about vegetation. I’ve got berries in my fridge from Cuba, I’ve also got some avocado from Brazil and a packet of tomato’s from Spain....... just because it’s fruit and veg it does not mean it is ecologically friendly, because that clearly isn’t. 
 

I think people have got to be careful when researching, because at the moment plant based is sexy, and along with some horribly put together Netflix documentaries, sections of the public are buying into it. 
 

My advice does come from a more nutritional background, and you’re so right when you say a lot of vegan foods are crap, because it is, most of if not all of the “meat substitutes” are actually of no nutritional substance at all, good old fruit and veg is the only way forward if you want to be a veggie. 
 

My point mainly is being vegan does not make you are healthier than someone who consumes lean, food quality meat and lives a good active lifestyle. 

 

Vice versa really, you get extremes of both - someone who eats meat 7 days a week is considered bad news, a vegan who eats junk vegan food, chips and crisps all day isn't healthy either. 

 

i think what everyone can agree on is a large selection of fruit, veg and whole foods should be the majority part of your diet. 

 

Listened to a podcast the other other from a so called expert who is even saying fish has been hyped up, farmed fish full of mercury and all sorts. Again all about moderation. Generally i live to the 80/20 rule 

[JonnyBoy]

On 17/01/2021 at 10:16, Greg2607 said:

We bought a load of vegan cookbooks.  It was a BIG change at first.  Not having that focal point of a meal (the meat).

 

But you find new recipes and meals and I don't miss meat at all these days. 

 

I try to avoid meat replacement type products, as clearly, they don't really compare. 

 

I also don't even like milk these days. Oat milk all the way for me. 

 

 

Oat milk is the dream, prefer it to normal milk 

Edited 18 January 2021 by JonnyBoy

[Pliskin]

2 hours ago, JonnyBoy said:

 

Vice versa really, you get extremes of both - someone who eats meat 7 days a week is considered bad news, a vegan who eats junk vegan food, chips and crisps all day isn't healthy either. 

 

i think what everyone can agree on is a large selection of fruit, veg and whole foods should be the majority part of your diet. 

 

Listened to a podcast the other other from a so called expert who is even saying fish has been hyped up, farmed fish full of mercury and all sorts. Again all about moderation. Generally i live to the 80/20 rule 

80/20 is the best way to live. But in reality we’re going mad when it comes to diet. My grandma lived to 94, and creams cakes and lard soaked steak were staples in her diet. There is no one fits all and a lot of it depends on what you actually do as well how active you are, I mean look at Michael Phelps his diet was full of shit, but he’s the greatest Olympian ever to walk the planet, if you lead a sedentary life style then “eating your self fit” is a very difficult thing to do. 
 

Moderation is the key, plenty of fruit and veg and with relevant levels of protein. There is an issue when it comes to proteins as plant based proteins and animal proteins are different, plant based being incomplete compared to the animal protein so for avid gym goers wanting to build muscle mass animal protein is far more effective at achieving this. 
 

I think we over analyse things now to the end degree. You can eat meat everyday and be healthy if you’re exercising hard enough to reap the benefits, it’s such a complex subject that it’s not as easy as a Vegan sitting there and judging you for not being plant based..... 

 

In terms of impact on the planet it’s not really the consuming of meat that’s the issue, it is us, there’s too many of us, and the demand is far too great, we’re over farming and it is the over farming that is causing the issues. Way back when meat supplies came from a local farm and they were able to be sustainable with their supply and it just about covered the entire town... ever since supermarkets started being the driving force those farms ended up being all over the world, so the local farms are no longer just catering for their villages, they’re merely part of a giant farming machine. 
 

In short, moderation is key with plenty of fruit and veg.... like you say 80/20 and exercise. 

 

Edited 18 January 2021 by Pliskin

[foxile5]

On 17/01/2021 at 12:36, Oxfordfox83 said:

Even if he is now, he certainly wasn’t when he was an athlete: https://time.com/3912896/usain-bolt-chicken-mcnuggets-olympics/

 

1000 McNuggets in 10 days: you need to up your game @Ric Flair

Bolt 100% wasn't a vegan when he was world champion. 

 

This is why folk get irritated at the vegan community. 1000% bullshit to try and further their agenda. There was a documentary that tries to indicate that vegan diet makes champions but it ignores the fact that 9 / 10 world champions aren't vegan. 

 

Word to the vegan community - enjoy your diet without making stuff up and banging on about it. People might listen more