Companies House - Registration of charge

[sw_fox]

5 hours ago, sacreblueits442 said:

...it is a form of invoice financing!!!

Once you get into the process it is not easy to get back on track to do business the old way.. There is usually a major commitment made where a sizeable lone is initially taken out and levied against company assets (such as Debtors) in our case final position payment. There is an ongoing cost for the facility, but it allows you to have available cash to meet your company's needs.

Exactly, and interest payments will help reduce our net profit and therefore our tax burden, which presumably there will be quite a hefty one due to selling assets.

In essence, I’m not worried at all by this development. Without being a Man City or Newcastle of this world, and particularly after relegation, this is a relatively sensible way to

run the business.

 

Obviously better to be debt free as a club. But from the business side debt isn’t necessarily something to be afraid of if it helps cash flow and allows us to make the investments we need at the time we need to.

[Chrysalis]

On 10/09/2023 at 04:29, sw_fox said:

Exactly, and interest payments will help reduce our net profit and therefore our tax burden, which presumably there will be quite a hefty one due to selling assets.

In essence, I’m not worried at all by this development. Without being a Man City or Newcastle of this world, and particularly after relegation, this is a relatively sensible way to

run the business.

 

Obviously better to be debt free as a club. But from the business side debt isn’t necessarily something to be afraid of if it helps cash flow and allows us to make the investments we need at the time we need to.

Is there a reason KP cant provide the cashflow via an interest free loan or equity?

 

My thoughts are this was expected, as a club we have got used to paying the day to day bills via pay day loans, and we had a big problem following relegation of how we would pay the wage bill, the only answer was from player sales, so yes this is essentially covering our wages for the upcoming season.

Edited 11 September 2023 by Chrysalis

[moore_94]

56 minutes ago, Chrysalis said:

Is there a reason KP cant provide the cashflow via an interest free loan or equity?

 

My thoughts are this was expected, as a club we have got used to paying the day to day bills via pay day loans, and we had a big problem following relegation of how we would pay the wage bill, the only answer was from player sales, so yes this is essentially covering our wages for the upcoming season.

King Power have provided a loan facility for us to use if we want to

[Danizen]

1 hour ago, Chrysalis said:

Is there a reason KP cant provide the cashflow via an interest free loan or equity?

 

My thoughts are this was expected, as a club we have got used to paying the day to day bills via pay day loans, and we had a big problem following relegation of how we would pay the wage bill, the only answer was from player sales, so yes this is essentially covering our wages for the upcoming season.

I'm guessing any King Power loan would be looked at pretty closely by the league with regards to FFP. Even if it was all above board, it could look bad to an outsider. 

 

We've got previous for this and it probably hasn't been forgotten. 

 

Using a third party keeps it all clean and the right side of the FFP rules. 

[Tommy G]

Lots of unneccessary stress around registration of charges. Do people think we operate as a Footbal Club like the average consumer, get paid at the end of the month and pay all our bills on the 1st of the following. Debt and interest is the devil on a personal level but completely different when running a business. I can't be bother to write war and peace but how the club manages their cashflow is all pretty normal. 

[Ric Flair]

On 09/09/2023 at 12:17, st albans fox said:

They’re lending us 13m a year early and 13m two years early 

I’d expect to pay at least 800k year 1 and 1.6m for the second tranche in interest if we don’t settle early 

 

I assume we offered spurs a £1m discount to pay up front. Reflects that they aren’t cash rich either 

The deal for Harry Winks was also very very beneficial to us....

[jayfox26]

1 hour ago, Danizen said:

I'm guessing any King Power loan would be looked at pretty closely by the league with regards to FFP. Even if it was all above board, it could look bad to an outsider. 

 

We've got previous for this and it probably hasn't been forgotten. 

 

Using a third party keeps it all clean and the right side of the FFP rules. 

It does seem pretty contradictive that ffp is supposed to be in place to ensure the financial stability of football clubs, yet it would rather clubs take loans with huge interest payments from and outside loan company than to allow teams to take loans from their owners interest free. So long as the loans are repaid and the club follows other ffp regulations, I don't see why an interest free loan from the owner will be an issue. 

[Gamble92]

1 hour ago, Ric Flair said:

The deal for Harry Winks was also very very beneficial to us....

You called me a fanny when I said that was a good signing 

[sacreblueits442]

19 minutes ago, jayfox26 said:

It does seem pretty contradictive that ffp is supposed to be in place to ensure the financial stability of football clubs, yet it would rather clubs take loans with huge interest payments from and outside loan company than to allow teams to take loans from their owners interest free. So long as the loans are repaid and the club follows other ffp regulations, I don't see why an interest free loan from the owner will be an issue. 

...would there be a limit on the loan,  and what would be the minimum repayment length of time!!!

  In theory Newcastle could come up with an interest free loan from their owners for say £750m, where there is a 10 year period for it to be repaid by. How do you believe the existing top teams would respond to that scenario?

[Tommy G]

31 minutes ago, jayfox26 said:

It does seem pretty contradictive that ffp is supposed to be in place to ensure the financial stability of football clubs, yet it would rather clubs take loans with huge interest payments from and outside loan company than to allow teams to take loans from their owners interest free. So long as the loans are repaid and the club follows other ffp regulations, I don't see why an interest free loan from the owner will be an issue. 

Are you really questioning why clubs don't have interest free loans from their billionaire owners??

[jayfox26]

33 minutes ago, Tommy G said:

Are you really questioning why clubs don't have interest free loans from their billionaire owners??

Yes I suppose it would be open to manipulation from the big clubs 

[jayfox26]

43 minutes ago, sacreblueits442 said:

...would there be a limit on the loan,  and what would be the minimum repayment length of time!!!

  In theory Newcastle could come up with an interest free loan from their owners for say £750m, where there is a 10 year period for it to be repaid by. How do you believe the existing top teams would respond to that scenario?

Yes I suppose the big clubs would manipulate the system like the always do. I think clubs would have to prove that they are capable of paying the loans back and prove where the income is coming from to pay the loans back. It would mean that teams like us who do try to follow the rules don't get stumped with huge interest on loans. 

Edited 11 September 2023 by jayfox26

[Tommy G]

44 minutes ago, jayfox26 said:

Yes I suppose it would be open to manipulation from the big clubs 

More likely the ones with the biggest pockets - Newcastle, Man City who are arguably smaller clubs than Liverpool or Man Utd. 

[sacreblueits442]

1 hour ago, Tommy G said:

More likely the ones with the biggest pockets - Newcastle, Man City who are arguably smaller clubs than Liverpool or Man Utd. 

...I would think with an interest-free loan pumped in by the club's owners, Newcastle would be the daddy in all this!!!

[Bluearmyfox28]

Does anyone have any idea of how many payments across what time period was agreed for the training ground? Don’t know if it’s been documented anywhere?

[Ric Flair]

5 hours ago, Gamble92 said:

You called me a fanny when I said that was a good signing 

😂 it was a compliment.

 

I also hadn't had it disclosed what we got him for either. 

[Foxes96]

41 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

😂 it was a compliment.

 

I also hadn't had it disclosed what we got him for either. 

So less than the reported £10m then? 

[Chrysalis]

On 11/09/2023 at 10:41, Danizen said:

I'm guessing any King Power loan would be looked at pretty closely by the league with regards to FFP. Even if it was all above board, it could look bad to an outsider. 

 

We've got previous for this and it probably hasn't been forgotten. 

 

Using a third party keeps it all clean and the right side of the FFP rules. 

You mean they would have an issue if e.g. we didnt have to pay it back?  So a cash injection disguised as a loan.

 

That would be totally counter productive if you think FFP is supposed to maintain financial stability at clubs.

 

As long as the income and spending is within regulations as I understand it there shouldnt be an issue.

 

I think when we got promoted they were questioning some of what we claimed as income.

[Sly]

We’ve made another one.

 

 

Assuming it’s to get money to buy people this time. 

[StanSP]

Just now, Sly said:

We’ve made another one.

 

 

Assuming it’s to get money to buy people this time. 

Pic isn't showing. When is this dated? 

 

 

[moore_94]

7 minutes ago, StanSP said:

Pic isn't showing. When is this dated? 

 

 

9th January

 

Guaranteed against future Prem money…

 

 

Edited 21 January by moore_94

[Torten]

So we're borrowing against next season's Prem money?

 

Means we're probably staying up but we just don't know it yet.

[CosbehFox]

3 minutes ago, Torten said:

So we're borrowing against next season's Prem money?

 

Means we're probably staying up but we just don't know it yet.

Or the parachute payments - it's effectively collateral, club could still pay that debt directly if required. 

[Mickyblueeyes]

This isn’t a big deal, it isn’t just against PL money, the definition clearly references the equivalent payment in case of relegation. It’s to ease cash flow burdens which exists for companies and in and out of football. Collateral in this instance is simply something we are contractually guaranteed. 

[ClaphamFox]

10 minutes ago, Torten said:

So we're borrowing against next season's Prem money?

 

Means we're probably staying up but we just don't know it yet.

Exactly. Now for the love of God will people PLEASE stop worrying about going down? The club has clearly got it sorted....