No plan B or a way of breaking teams down

[foxinsocks]

When a bus is parked we need to go around to the byeline. Ricardo and castagne can do this.   So should barnes and under 

Edited 6 October 2020 by foxinsocks

[gerrytaggart]

We Got done by a Moyes tactical masterclass.   You can't avoid it in the modern game, man's a ****ing genius. 

[justfoxes]

It’s the start of the season we’ve been lucky and spoiled with the first 3 games and 9 points, honestly who would have thought we would have beaten Man City 2-5 I thought we’d lose when Mahrez struck that wonder goal.

 

There certainly have been some strange results over last couple of weeks then when some thought we had a certain 3 points going for us, then West Ham had a different idea don’t know why or how but the seemed to click last Sunday and really beat us: Don’t know if it’s a lack of a plan B on Brendans half or we were just unlucky to be on the end of great Hammers display but we’re aren’t going to win every game this season but I’ve still faith in us to finish around the top 5,again?

 

Cant wait for Ricardo to get back play alongside the nee lads who hopefully will be those missing pieces to bring us amazing performances, so let’s not use plan M (Moaning) at the moment and wait for the injured lads to get back as we’re putting a great team together who will give us some amazing wins along with a couple of  losses and Draws I’m sure of got my money on a top 5 place come end of season and who knows a decent run in the Europa?

[Le Renard]

Rodgers got rid of Andy Carrol at Liverpool, so why would he resort to lump it upto the big guy upfront.  I have watched many teams play like this and it is turgid, perhaps we need to bring Big Sam out of retirement, that will please some on here.......we can have plan B for 85 mins.

[Mickyblueeyes]

Another thing, no club is going to make top 4/6 playing big lump up to a big striker. It doesn’t work anymore. Well it doesn’t work consistently. Goalkeepers take a far more advance position and full backs pick things up more. 
 

On Sunday.  had we tried that we would’ve made the job even easier for West Ham. In fact, our problem was that we didn’t execute plan A well enough. Two times that we moved the ball faster we tested them. Once Vardy went through and second time we scored a great (non) goal. The execution was wrong on Sunday - the first goal knocked the wind out of us and the next two goals were sucker punches. We struggled to get up after the second goal. It unfortunately happens. 

[Guest Fktf]

As is often the case against teams that play narrow and deep once they take the lead against us, the only space we really found second half was wide and in front of the defence

 

Can't see the harm in having a tall striker to pick out with a cross in these games. It doesnt change the build up play to lump it forward, and we have wingers that can deliver accurate rather than hopeful crosses.

 

Plan b would be scoring goals like Antonio's and Wood's, from accurate crosses picking out a man. We've not had that capability in the squad since ulloa left. 

[deanolegend1989]

7 hours ago, Mickyblueeyes said:

This idea that Rodgers “failed” at Liverpool really annoys me. The Liverpool he took over were barely top 6. You say he didn’t “sort the defence” as if it was a quick fix. Klopp had to sell Coutinho (a Rodgers player) and sign both Allison and Van Dijk to finally solidify their defence. It took him a couple of seasons to do that and had very little to do with “genius”. Rodgers took a top 6/top 8 side to the brink of the title playing some of the most exhilarating football that year. His competitors splashed significantly more in signings and had financial power to go out and improve their squad with a better standard of player then he could. 
 

The following season, he lost Suarez and the most the club spent to replace him was £16m on Balloteli - a risk but one who doesn’t really fit the style. Chelsea spent a large sum on Costa if I remember rightly. Liverpool also signed Sakho - probably one of the most sought after defenders at the time behind Varane. He flopped for whatever reason. Lovren was also seen as a bit of a coup but again failed to live up to expectation. 
 

Compare that to Klopp who has far more financial muscle due predominantly to Coutinho sale and more significantly the restructuring of Liverpool’s recruitment policy. Edwards, the DOF now works with the manager in comparison to the transfer committee they previously had. It all plays a part. 
 

I’m not saying Rodgers is the messiah and I also criticise some of his decisions (like every fan, I’ve criticised every manager we’ve had at some point). However, every time we lose he gets the “clueless” tag when it really isn’t warranted. Yes, we’ve shown flaws under his management but we’ve also had some incredible results. We’ve gone from 9th dreaming of finishing 7th to 5th expecting top 6 to be a standard season. 
 

You also don’t want to compare Pep and Klopp to Rodgers. Ok, how about Nuno ? His Wolves side lost 4-0 to West Ham - does that make him clueless too ?
 

In terms of Rodgers, he did well at Watford, very well at Swansea and well at Liverpool given the circumstances. His only flop came at Reading, not Liverpool. You’ve got to look at all things surrounding the club at that given time before calling the manager out.

And I don’t like what most people’s mindset on here that because we were a championship club or lower for a decade that we should be happy to be in the Prem. Or because we finished 9th the season before he came that he’s somehow a tactical genius.

This squad we have now is fantastic. 9th is a failure with the talent we have unfortunately and I think most people’s mindset on here is that we are only as high as we are because he’s done a great job with our squad when in reality the squad makes him look good because they are a lot more talented than people give credit for because we are an unfashionable club.

 

I won’t get into his job at Liverpool as it’s all opinions, but for me, he should of won that league with Liverpool. City had peaked and wernt as good as when they won with Mancini and Man Utd under Moyes and Arsenal were all in transition. Suarez was the best player in the league by a county mile. That team should of won the league and Brendan tried to oversmart it again.

Just as with us , he starts messing about with the formation and it disrupts the fine balance.

Liverpool had won about 10/11 in a row going into that Chelsea game and they only needed a draw that game to stay in control. He played negative and tried to keep it compact, then panicked when the 2nd half they needed to score and break down a tight defence(sound familiar?). Then at Palace 3-0 up and crusing then concede a goal in the 80th minute. Shut up shop? No panic and throw the league away. He doesn’t react to what’s happening, when it’s working it’s fine but any moment where you can see something needs to change, he just sits and hopes. City away it would of been the same if Walker hadn’t given away a cheap pen that turned the game.

 

Its a familiar pattern every game with him. We have a great squad who look great in full flow, when we attack and score first we are a joy to watch, when BR tries to make it a tactics game and fear the opposition we lose. Just like Brighton home last year, just like Bournemouth away at HT. He threw our top  away by fiddling. The main reason we won the league was because we fell into a system that worked and we stuck to it, no fiddling, no respect for the other teams and just played our first 11 every game and wernt scared of anyone. Funnily enough the one game Ranieri did change and put 451 with Inler coming in was against Man City at home and we looked awful and was lucky to draw 0-0. 
Football is A simple game made complicated by idiots. He sees West Ham and decides to put 3 at the back and leave Mendy/Tielemens in a 2 vs West Ham’s 3. Was so doomed from the start and I was screaming after 5 mins that this will be a nightmare if we concede first. The second Antonio scored I said ‘game over’. It’s hopeless when he doesn’t try and win the game. I understand Praet and Madders were out but you can’t play a 2 vs West Ham in that game! It’s one game I know but that was an absolutely disgusting decision. I don’t mind losing but we handed it away on a plate by stupid set up and then moan that the players played badly!!

I couldn’t fault a single one of the players, West Ham absolutely put 2 brick walls and I don’t think anyone could of broke that down, they did it fantastically to be fair. However we gave them the opportunity by setting up in a way that would inevitably make this happen and BR was clueless, yes clueless!

Opposition teams should watch the way West Ham beat us and it’ll be so easy to beat us every game when we arnt allowed to play our strengths due to Rogers moron tactics. 

[deanolegend1989]

On 05/10/2020 at 10:34, Babylon said:

Funny, no mention that it was him who put them in a title race for the first time in how long at Liverpool? Or that it was him who had us in the top 4, or that it was him who has us near the top of the league again. 

 

I'm not comparing them to him, I'm comparing the fact any manager can have a crap game or a loss, or a run of bad form. It's the whole picture that matters. Faults, yes he has them. But saying I'm the embarrassing one,  when you've called someone "a clueless moron" who clearly isn't, is the embarrassing comment in this thread. 

 

Whether you like it or not, we outperformed expectations massively last season. A bad run of form " doesn’t change this.". We've started the season well considering our injuries, one game against West Ham "doesn’t change this."

 

 

You do realise because you say he is not a clueless moron doesn’t mean he isn’t in fact a clueless moron and just because I think he is doesn’t mean he is. It’s called having an opinion on the matter and rather than dismissing as opinion because you don’t agree with it, just accept to agree to disagree.

 

Just like on your next paragraph where you say ‘we outperformed all season then had a bad run of form’ I disagree because to me we performed to the level of quality in our squad and then massively underperformed because of wrong tactics and decisions in key games above and more.

He is one of the most well paid coaches in the league and despite being little Leicester to most of our fans it seems, it’s not good enough to keep throwing away stupid games because of the wrong decisions. It’s almost of if he’s an ostrich and not seen how West Ham play it’s baffling.

 

I understand that most people on here prefer to be positive and have the mindset of don’t criticise anyone and we should be grateful that we arnt a mid table middling championship team but I can not accept that with the squad and infrastructure we have.

 

We have a fantastic squad, well rounded with top young players, top experience pros and a couple of arguably the best players in the league. We have 1 of the best training grounds in the country, one of the highest paid coaches in the country and one of the best owners in the country. We are NOT Leicester of 2004-2010.

I can accept when we wernt good enough for years, we were a club in a mess and our squad was not good enough.

I can’t accept when I believe we throw games away due to ineptness rather than lack of quality.

This is one of the best squads we’ve ever had in our entire history, I think the best personally but top 2 by anyone’s standards so we need to get the best out of it before the vultures pinch our young talent and/or age finishes off our legends!!

Is BR getting the BEST out this squad? Or could this squad be achieving more? I believe the latter.

Fair play to West Ham, they did what is needed to beat a team that played in a way to hand it to them on a plate.

 

I get it’s ‘one game’ but the way he’s not learning is worrying me he that isn’t ever going to learn he just has huge flaws that will hold this team back. I said before the game yesterday as soon as I saw how he set up ‘this feels like another Brighton at home type game’. How can he not see it? I get we had some of our players out but you can’t play 3 at the back vs a team like West Ham, you just can’t! Starting that and then when the inevitable happened and Mendy and Tielemens got over run by their 3 and he did not do anything about it until he was forced to due to Armartys injury just summed it all up. Rice and Soucek were loving life. 

How an earth did he not put an extra body in the centre as the game was going on?

How badly does he treat Nacho?

It was crying out for him and he waits so long to get him on, made a good impact but too little too late.

 

I don’t want the guy sacked yet but I fear for his long term future and that he’s taken us as far as he has.

Just as you said initially ‘but he got Liverpool close, he got us 14 clear’ exactly this, he’s a nearly man he lacks the ability to see things through.

I honestly believe if we got to the EL final against a pot 4 team, he’d somehow contrive to throwing it away.

I can’t remember the last time we lose with a fight, when we lose we really do lose and that sums him up as a manager really. When it’s working it’s all great, when he has to do something to turn a tough situation around, he comes up short. If he doesn’t realise that and swallow his huge ego, he will never improve and take us to the next level.

[Babylon]

1 hour ago, deanolegend1989 said:

You do realise because you say he is not a clueless moron doesn’t mean he isn’t in fact a clueless moron and just because I think he is doesn’t mean he is. It’s called having an opinion on the matter and rather than dismissing as opinion because you don’t agree with it, just accept to agree to disagree.

 

Oh god, here we go with the "options" nonsense. People out there have the opinion that the earth is flat, it's not. I don't have to respect their opinion when it's nonsense, I'm going to point that shit out. Rodgers is not a "clueless moron" by any measure. Where we we when he took over and where did we finish last season? How many title attempts did Liverpool have for a decade or two before him? 

 

You do not get a team promoted to the premier league, keep them up playing great football, take over Liverpool and put them in a title race for the first time in years, join Celtic win everything, then join what up until that point had been a mid table Leicester and finish 5th if you are a "clueless moron". I mean where the hell does that leave managers like Puel, Taylor etc. You've left yourself nowhere to go with a ridiculous comment. 

 

1 hour ago, deanolegend1989 said:

Just like on your next paragraph where you say ‘we outperformed all season then had a bad run of form’ I disagree because to me we performed to the level of quality in our squad and then massively underperformed because of wrong tactics and decisions in key games above and more.

Whether you like it or not, the club were not expecting champions league football last season, 5th is outperforming the boards and the vast majority of fans expectations. If people had high expectations, it was due to what Rodgers did when he took over from Puel. Because we sure as shit hadn't shown anything prior to that to suggest the squad was up to it. 

 

1 hour ago, deanolegend1989 said:

I understand that most people on here prefer to be positive and have the mindset of don’t criticise anyone and we should be grateful that we arnt a mid table middling championship team but I can not accept that with the squad and infrastructure we have.

Nonsense, I moaned at Rodgers for the end of the season, just like most people did. We at the very least should have shown high mid table form. But, as the players had shown under Puel as well, consistency was hard to come by. So perhaps you need to question the squad a bit more, because there is far more evidence that's the case, than it's Rodgers being the problem. What annoys people, is hyperbole and stupid comments like you made about someone who got us to 5th. 

 

1 hour ago, deanolegend1989 said:

We have a fantastic squad, well rounded with top young players, top experience pros and a couple of arguably the best players in the league. We have 1 of the best training grounds in the country, one of the highest paid coaches in the country and one of the best owners in the country. We are NOT Leicester of 2004-2010.

I can accept when we wernt good enough for years, we were a club in a mess and our squad was not good enough.

I can’t accept when I believe we throw games away due to ineptness rather than lack of quality.

 

Who said we were the same Leicester? We're clearly better, but our revenue is the 9th highest in the league. If you think that buys you perfection and top 4 regularly you are out of your mind. 

 

You aren't going to change your mind so I'll leave it there, but nobody is going to agree with you that he's a clueless moron. 

 

[HighPeakFox]

Calling someone a 'clueless moron' isn't an opinion, it's basically routine dismissive abuse. I somehow doubt that anyone would remain philosophical on here if they were called a clueless moron, or accept that the 'opinion' was in any way valid. 

 

Next time you're having a debate about anything, try calling your correspondent a 'clueless moron' and see what happens. It could be a variety of responses, but I very much doubt it will be 'well, that's just your opinion'.

 

 

Edited 6 October 2020 by HighPeakFox

[deanolegend1989]

51 minutes ago, Babylon said:

 

Oh god, here we go with the "options" nonsense. People out there have the opinion that the earth is flat, it's not. I don't have to respect their opinion when it's nonsense, I'm going to point that shit out. Rodgers is not a "clueless moron" by any measure. Where we we when he took over and where did we finish last season? How many title attempts did Liverpool have for a decade or two before him? 

You don’t need to respect my opinion just like I don’t to a lot of stuff people speak. I just say how I feel , even if it’s unpopular decision. Example would be in 2017 I said Mane was better than Salah. Then Salah smashed it in 17/18 and I got lots of ‘I chat rubbish’. Over the years those same people are now saying how good Mane is and it’s laughable really. People just say the easy option and can’t see things beforehand.

The media were slating  Spurs when they lost to Everton saying ‘we won’t ever make the top 10’ and ‘Mourinho is finished at the top level’. Just THREE games later and I’ve heard ‘Spurs would win the title’ ‘that squad is one of the best in the league!’

The worlds gone ****ing mad. My point being that there’s so many opinions that are laughable and it’s just about saying what you really think rather than being a sheep or a media nodding dog.
 

So right now the overall consensus would be that Rodgers is some hero for getting little Leicester to 5th, but for me I think he shows to many weaknesses. That’s not me saying he’s the worst manager ever or that I want him sacked, but it’s my opinion on his limitations and that he makes a lot of bad mistakes in crucial times and he needs to improve.

 

 

[Mickyblueeyes]

5 hours ago, deanolegend1989 said:

And I don’t like what most people’s mindset on here that because we were a championship club or lower for a decade that we should be happy to be in the Prem. Or because we finished 9th the season before he came that he’s somehow a tactical genius.

This squad we have now is fantastic. 9th is a failure with the talent we have unfortunately and I think most people’s mindset on here is that we are only as high as we are because he’s done a great job with our squad when in reality the squad makes him look good because they are a lot more talented than people give credit for because we are an unfashionable club.

 

I won’t get into his job at Liverpool as it’s all opinions, but for me, he should of won that league with Liverpool. City had peaked and wernt as good as when they won with Mancini and Man Utd under Moyes and Arsenal were all in transition. Suarez was the best player in the league by a county mile. That team should of won the league and Brendan tried to oversmart it again.

Just as with us , he starts messing about with the formation and it disrupts the fine balance.

Liverpool had won about 10/11 in a row going into that Chelsea game and they only needed a draw that game to stay in control. He played negative and tried to keep it compact, then panicked when the 2nd half they needed to score and break down a tight defence(sound familiar?). Then at Palace 3-0 up and crusing then concede a goal in the 80th minute. Shut up shop? No panic and throw the league away. He doesn’t react to what’s happening, when it’s working it’s fine but any moment where you can see something needs to change, he just sits and hopes. City away it would of been the same if Walker hadn’t given away a cheap pen that turned the game.

 

Its a familiar pattern every game with him. We have a great squad who look great in full flow, when we attack and score first we are a joy to watch, when BR tries to make it a tactics game and fear the opposition we lose. Just like Brighton home last year, just like Bournemouth away at HT. He threw our top  away by fiddling. The main reason we won the league was because we fell into a system that worked and we stuck to it, no fiddling, no respect for the other teams and just played our first 11 every game and wernt scared of anyone. Funnily enough the one game Ranieri did change and put 451 with Inler coming in was against Man City at home and we looked awful and was lucky to draw 0-0. 
Football is A simple game made complicated by idiots. He sees West Ham and decides to put 3 at the back and leave Mendy/Tielemens in a 2 vs West Ham’s 3. Was so doomed from the start and I was screaming after 5 mins that this will be a nightmare if we concede first. The second Antonio scored I said ‘game over’. It’s hopeless when he doesn’t try and win the game. I understand Praet and Madders were out but you can’t play a 2 vs West Ham in that game! It’s one game I know but that was an absolutely disgusting decision. I don’t mind losing but we handed it away on a plate by stupid set up and then moan that the players played badly!!

I couldn’t fault a single one of the players, West Ham absolutely put 2 brick walls and I don’t think anyone could of broke that down, they did it fantastically to be fair. However we gave them the opportunity by setting up in a way that would inevitably make this happen and BR was clueless, yes clueless!

Opposition teams should watch the way West Ham beat us and it’ll be so easy to beat us every game when we arnt allowed to play our strengths due to Rogers moron tactics. 

I don’t think anyone has that mindset.if it is, it’s very much a minority. Fans expectations now is to at least be challenging for European places.  In fact, I think you’re the only one who repeatedly uses the “little old Leicester” tag.

 

I’m sorry if it comes across that your opinion is not being respected but speaking for myself, it’s because your argument seems muddled. The manager plays no part in a players playing well but is solely to blame for each time players under perform ? That’s what I’m getting. I mean he only signed two players surplus to requirements, stuck next to a player who was good and then turned world class. Played no part in that. 
 

The thing we are ignoring about the set up on Sunday is that Praet and Madders were sat in the stands. That left Hamza, Cengiz and Albrighton. One is a DM and everyone on Foxestalk knows it’s blasphemy to play two DM’s. Cengiz has had a handful of training session and has already been judged by some as being not good enough. Perhaps that leaves the option of Albrighton. But really, was there any other option ? Like seriously, who would you play ? Let me guess, Nacho instead of Amartey ? Could it be that we wanted three at the back because Evans fitness may still not be there because he missed the first three ?
 

You say we have a fantastic squad - really ? Fantastic ? I think that’s optimistic. Very good first team when everyone’s fit and available. Probably one of the best we have ever had but squad, no. It’s a working progress. So you try things. In the same way, you can’t then also legislate for unforced errors. Kasper blasting the ball five yards to the opposition or Gerrard slipping over. This his fault too ? 
 

No one is ready to build a statue of Rodgers outside the ground despite what you may think. I also don’t think anyone is stupid enough to think that we don’t have some serious talent in the squad. However, solely blaming the manager for every below average performance is a bit simple. It’s even more annoying when the mitigating factors are not taken into consideration - note you’ve not touched on any of them. Until you do, perhaps hold off on calling the manager a clueless moron and fans “sheep” and “dogs”. 

[Foxaholic ME]

38 minutes ago, Mickyblueeyes said:

I don’t think anyone has that mindset.if it is, it’s very much a minority. Fans expectations now is to at least be challenging for European places.  In fact, I think you’re the only one who repeatedly uses the “little old Leicester” tag.

 

I’m sorry if it comes across that your opinion is not being respected but speaking for myself, it’s because your argument seems muddled. The manager plays no part in a players playing well but is solely to blame for each time players under perform ? That’s what I’m getting. I mean he only signed two players surplus to requirements, stuck next to a player who was good and then turned world class. Played no part in that. 
 

The thing we are ignoring about the set up on Sunday is that Praet and Madders were sat in the stands. That left Hamza, Cengiz and Albrighton. One is a DM and everyone on Foxestalk knows it’s blasphemy to play two DM’s. Cengiz has had a handful of training session and has already been judged by some as being not good enough. Perhaps that leaves the option of Albrighton. But really, was there any other option ? Like seriously, who would you play ? Let me guess, Nacho instead of Amartey ? Could it be that we wanted three at the back because Evans fitness may still not be there because he missed the first three ?
 

You say we have a fantastic squad - really ? Fantastic ? I think that’s optimistic. Very good first team when everyone’s fit and available. Probably one of the best we have ever had but squad, no. It’s a working progress. So you try things. In the same way, you can’t then also legislate for unforced errors. Kasper blasting the ball five yards to the opposition or Gerrard slipping over. This his fault too ? 
 

No one is ready to build a statue of Rodgers outside the ground despite what you may think. I also don’t think anyone is stupid enough to think that we don’t have some serious talent in the squad. However, solely blaming the manager for every below average performance is a bit simple. It’s even more annoying when the mitigating factors are not taken into consideration - note you’ve not touched on any of them. Until you do, perhaps hold off on calling the manager a clueless moron and fans “sheep” and “dogs”. 

With the exception of  Vardy I  would say our  best 4 players are out  and most would struggle without their 4 best players 

[Guest]

6 hours ago, deanolegend1989 said:

You do realise because you say he is not a clueless moron doesn’t mean he isn’t in fact a clueless moron and just because I think he is doesn’t mean he is. It’s called having an opinion on the matter and rather than dismissing as opinion because you don’t agree with it, just accept to agree to disagree.

You'd get less people dismissing your opinions if you toned down the absurd hyperbole, as seen also with "Mendy is League One standard". I don't think anyone would dismiss your opinion that Rodgers is a flawed manager but if you express it like an idiot then it can't come as a huge surprise to you when people come to the conclusion that you're an idiot.

[Babylon]

6 hours ago, deanolegend1989 said:

 

 

If I thought the person in charge was a “clueless moron” I’d want him sacked.
 

Why not just admit you over egged the pudding with that comment, you’d get more respect. 
 

You want to discuss his flaws without the hyperbole and abuse and I’m sure you’ll find people far more agreeable.

[Sionnach gorm]

On 04/10/2020 at 17:56, tickler28 said:

Yes West Ham played well today and yes we had injuries and it could just be one of those bad days at the office but I'm seeing a familiar pattern forming that's been stuck with us for a very long time.

 

Generally when we take the lead we win (not always I know) but the majority of the time because we enjoy it more when teams don't sit deep.

 

When we go a goal down and a team defends deep we literally might as well finish the game for the number of times we win. Now some might argue we came back from a goal down against Burnley (Burnley are literally useless at the minute and had a million injuries so that one doesn't really count) and v Man City....yes but they continue to push forward and do not sit back and defend.

 

I'm sorry but so long as teams come to the KP or indeed employ this tactic away from home we are going to yield very few if any points because we are trully useless at unlocking deep packed defences.

 

This could be Rodgers downfall as a bit like Pep he won't change his attacking principles. What we have to hope therefore is that we don't get done like this to often....for me that will cost us big time in the long run.

I, agree with you, but with a caveat.  There are very few managers that have a plan B.  Most managers, and Guardiola is a prime example, know only one set up and a style of play.  Muorinho, Klopp, et al, also among those managers.  Sometimes it proves to be a great success, and other times a total failure.  We actually had a manager that was ridiculed for being a “tinkerer”.  Generally speaking I prefer a manager that attempts a change or a different set up depending on the team they play...but unfortunately in football there are no guarantees that that will help.  So I suggest we just relax and hope for better games 

[fuchsntf]

7 hours ago, Mickyblueeyes said:

I don’t think anyone has that mindset.if it is, it’s very much a minority. Fans expectations now is to at least be challenging for European places.  In fact, I think you’re the only one who repeatedly uses the “little old Leicester” tag.

 

I’m sorry if it comes across that your opinion is not being respected but speaking for myself, it’s because your argument seems muddled. The manager plays no part in a players playing well but is solely to blame for each time players under perform ? That’s what I’m getting. I mean he only signed two players surplus to requirements, stuck next to a player who was good and then turned world class. Played no part in that. 
 

The thing we are ignoring about the set up on Sunday is that Praet and Madders were sat in the stands. That left Hamza, Cengiz and Albrighton. One is a DM and everyone on Foxestalk knows it’s blasphemy to play two DM’s. Cengiz has had a handful of training session and has already been judged by some as being not good enough. Perhaps that leaves the option of Albrighton. But really, was there any other option ? Like seriously, who would you play ? Let me guess, Nacho instead of Amartey ? Could it be that we wanted three at the back because Evans fitness may still not be there because he missed the first three ?
 

You say we have a fantastic squad - really ? Fantastic ? I think that’s optimistic. Very good first team when everyone’s fit and available. Probably one of the best we have ever had but squad, no. It’s a working progress. So you try things. In the same way, you can’t then also legislate for unforced errors. Kasper blasting the ball five yards to the opposition or Gerrard slipping over. This his fault too ? 
 

No one is ready to build a statue of Rodgers outside the ground despite what you may think. I also don’t think anyone is stupid enough to think that we don’t have some serious talent in the squad. However, solely blaming the manager for every below average performance is a bit simple. It’s even more annoying when the mitigating factors are not taken into consideration - note you’ve not touched on any of them. Until you do, perhaps hold off on calling the manager a clueless moron and fans “sheep” and “dogs”. 

Wuff..wuff...bhhaa,bha...bhaaaaa

Grrr grr

[urban fox]

opinions are fine. we all have them, but unnecessary abuse, such as calling an obviously intelligent human being, with a track history of high level performance a clueless moron is another thing altogether. This from the same poster who regularly dismissed one our best performing players so far this season "not even league 1 standard".

I get that some people say these things to get a reaction, and he has achieved this, fair enough, but lets just think before we resort to this type of personal abuse that makes us look like stupid entitled children.

When errors are made, fine, lets call them out, and discuss the reasons, possible solutions and alternatives etc in a mature, adult way (yes i know this FT) but lets just drop the uninformed, inflammatory and needless abuse. 

[giogiodcr]

The problem is not plan A -B -C ... it's much simpler!
You can not always win in matches by building beautiful actions, 1-2, class plays etc..etc .., it often happens that if the opponents do not open up you need an area striker, powerful, tall, brave and good at head and stunt.
But everyone knows this fact: technicians, sports journalists, fans and even those who understand little about football .... It seems to me that only BR continues to ... deny it .. !!! ... and not only does he not buy an area striker, but he does not even take into consideration Slimani who will not be a top player but in our team he is the only one who could serve in some games ...
I am a coach too and often choices are made not due to objective situations, but to avoid other training and tactics problems!
Example: If Slimani played central attack ... Vardy where would he play !! ??? ... Or if Ihenacho plays behind Vardy..the module as it should be ..? .etc. etc..
Unfortunately I believe that one of the reasons is to be found in these situations!

 

 

[giogiodcr]

Just now, giogiodcr said:

The problem is not plan A -B -C ... it's much simpler!
You can not always win in matches by building beautiful actions, 1-2, class plays etc..etc .., it often happens that if the opponents do not open up you need an area striker, powerful, tall, brave and good at head and stunt.
But everyone knows this fact: technicians, sports journalists, fans and even those who understand little about football .... It seems to me that only BR continues to ... deny it .. !!! ... and not only does he not buy an area striker, but he does not even take into consideration Slimani who will not be a top player but in our team he is the only one who could serve in some games ...
I am a coach too and often choices are made not due to objective situations, but to avoid other training and tactics problems!
Example: If Slimani played central attack ... Vardy where would he play !! ??? ... Or if Ihenacho plays behind Vardy..the module as it should be ..? .etc. etc..
Unfortunately I believe that one of the reasons is to be found in these situations!

 

 

 

[John12345]

The manager's tactics are often wrong as on Sunday when we can't get a foothold, and its game over by half time. We never seem to play well and lose, we are always awful which indicates something more than just bad luck or one of those days. I really hope Rodgers can take on board the criticism of his tactics and develop and that he has now bought himself the players he thinks he needed so he can etc.

He will surely know from analysing with his team of aides and press, no matter how stubborn he is. We could be a really good side , more consistently if he does.If he can't he will lose his job as why would we not get a repeat of 2nd half of last season. Despite covid the board have still invested good money, notwithstanding Chilwell  so they aren't going to mess about if they need to.

Villa will be a good test.

 

 

[Dahnsouff]

Do people not realise that on occasion, other teams play better than us? Against West Ham we were poor all over the park, this heavy press stifles us and renders us very predictable and blunt, and this was exacerbated by  the loss of the 2nd creative midfielder. 

Everybody loses sometimes, and sometimes you are made to look even worse by a well prepared team.

 

Villa will press hard I think, lets see how we do there.

 

Seriously though, no-one in the known world of football can resist Wee Davie's team at their best. (i.e.; When he is in quarantine)

 

[RumbleFox]

Babs has nailed it. X 

[Steve Earle]

15 hours ago, deanolegend1989 said:

You do realise because you say he is not a clueless moron doesn’t mean he isn’t in fact a clueless moron and just because I think he is doesn’t mean he is. It’s called having an opinion on the matter and rather than dismissing as opinion because you don’t agree with it, just accept to agree to disagree.

 

Just like on your next paragraph where you say ‘we outperformed all season then had a bad run of form’ I disagree because to me we performed to the level of quality in our squad and then massively underperformed because of wrong tactics and decisions in key games above and more.

He is one of the most well paid coaches in the league and despite being little Leicester to most of our fans it seems, it’s not good enough to keep throwing away stupid games because of the wrong decisions. It’s almost of if he’s an ostrich and not seen how West Ham play it’s baffling.

 

I understand that most people on here prefer to be positive and have the mindset of don’t criticise anyone and we should be grateful that we arnt a mid table middling championship team but I can not accept that with the squad and infrastructure we have.

 

We have a fantastic squad, well rounded with top young players, top experience pros and a couple of arguably the best players in the league. We have 1 of the best training grounds in the country, one of the highest paid coaches in the country and one of the best owners in the country. We are NOT Leicester of 2004-2010.

I can accept when we wernt good enough for years, we were a club in a mess and our squad was not good enough.

I can’t accept when I believe we throw games away due to ineptness rather than lack of quality.

This is one of the best squads we’ve ever had in our entire history, I think the best personally but top 2 by anyone’s standards so we need to get the best out of it before the vultures pinch our young talent and/or age finishes off our legends!!

Is BR getting the BEST out this squad? Or could this squad be achieving more? I believe the latter.

Fair play to West Ham, they did what is needed to beat a team that played in a way to hand it to them on a plate.

 

I get it’s ‘one game’ but the way he’s not learning is worrying me he that isn’t ever going to learn he just has huge flaws that will hold this team back. I said before the game yesterday as soon as I saw how he set up ‘this feels like another Brighton at home type game’. How can he not see it? I get we had some of our players out but you can’t play 3 at the back vs a team like West Ham, you just can’t! Starting that and then when the inevitable happened and theirMendy and Tielemens got over run by 3 and he did not do anything about it until he was forced to due to Armartys injury just summed it all up. Rice and Soucek were loving life. 

How an earth did he not put an extra body in the centre as the game was going on?

How badly does he treat Nacho?

It was crying out for him and he waits so long to get him on, made a good impact but too little too late.

 

I don’t want the guy sacked yet but I fear for his long term future and that he’s taken us as far as he has.

Just as you said initially ‘but he got Liverpool close, he got us 14 clear’ exactly this, he’s a nearly man he lacks the ability to see things through.

I honestly believe if we got to the EL final against a pot 4 team, he’d somehow contrive to throwing it away.

I can’t remember the last time we lose with a fight, when we lose we really do lose and that sums him up as a manager really. When it’s working it’s all great, when he has to do something to turn a tough situation around, he comes up short. If he doesn’t realise that and swallow his huge ego, he will never improve and take us to the next level.

Except they played 2 in midfield too - both sides lined up 343.

[deanolegend1989]

9 hours ago, Mickyblueeyes said:

I don’t think anyone has that mindset.if it is, it’s very much a minority. Fans expectations now is to at least be challenging for European places.  In fact, I think you’re the only one who repeatedly uses the “little old Leicester” tag.

 

I’m sorry if it comes across that your opinion is not being respected but speaking for myself, it’s because your argument seems muddled. The manager plays no part in a players playing well but is solely to blame for each time players under perform ? That’s what I’m getting. I mean he only signed two players surplus to requirements, stuck next to a player who was good and then turned world class. Played no part in that. 
 

The thing we are ignoring about the set up on Sunday is that Praet and Madders were sat in the stands. That left Hamza, Cengiz and Albrighton. One is a DM and everyone on Foxestalk knows it’s blasphemy to play two DM’s. Cengiz has had a handful of training session and has already been judged by some as being not good enough. Perhaps that leaves the option of Albrighton. But really, was there any other option ? Like seriously, who would you play ? Let me guess, Nacho instead of Amartey ? Could it be that we wanted three at the back because Evans fitness may still not be there because he missed the first three ?
 

You say we have a fantastic squad - really ? Fantastic ? I think that’s optimistic. Very good first team when everyone’s fit and available. Probably one of the best we have ever had but squad, no. It’s a working progress. So you try things. In the same way, you can’t then also legislate for unforced errors. Kasper blasting the ball five yards to the opposition or Gerrard slipping over. This his fault too ? 
 

No one is ready to build a statue of Rodgers outside the ground despite what you may think. I also don’t think anyone is stupid enough to think that we don’t have some serious talent in the squad. However, solely blaming the manager for every below average performance is a bit simple. It’s even more annoying when the mitigating factors are not taken into consideration - note you’ve not touched on any of them. Until you do, perhaps hold off on calling the manager a clueless moron and fans “sheep” and “dogs”. 

That’s a fair balanced reply. Top marks from me.

I have given him credit before in the last on how he’s improved our squad and found a balance at times, however again as said, he’s inherited a great squad. Ricardo Ndidi Soyuncu Tielemens are all absolutely top draw players. Vardy Kasper and Evans are all very much elite level pros and it’s a great job to come into and he knew this as he left the mighty Celtic for, as Chris Sutton put it, a team smaller than Celtic reserves. He knew this was a strong project and whilst he initially started well, he is showing huge flaws in quite a few games.

Like I said, yes we did have injuries but I’d rather have had anyone in to cover in our normal formation rather than 3 at the back. West Ham at home with the way they set up and the strength of their midfield , it was EXTREMELY naive to set up just Tielemens and Mendy vs them. Obviously I’m not mendys  biggest fan in general but you could have had a prime makalele in there and I still can’t see how we wouldn’t of got over run. It was so clear to see all game and he didn’t change it.

I can’t deny that without Praet or Madders we would of been scraping the barrel but Hamzas legs and energy in there would of helped Youri influence the game with extra legs and space. We didn’t need 3 at the back vs a lone striker, what that did is get it to Antonio more as they overrun the middle! I’ve seen West Ham play quite a lot Since lockdown and That Soucek and Rice are as good as you’ll see in there, they are strong and full of energy and it was pure suicide to not match them with another body imo.

 

Yes we have a fantastic squad I think. Our first 11 is as good as nearly anyone in the league. We beat Man City 5-2 and didn’t have Madders, Ndidi, Ricardo, Forfana, Under, Gray, Albrighton, Nacho. Imagine everyone fit? Look at the strength of that ‘bench’ as such. We have a very good squad, it’s such a cliche that we don’t because we are a smaller club and the big 6 are much deeper squads, if you look at nearly every top 6 team, if they get injury’s they are the same as us, look at City other week, Laporte out and there much weaker! But we had no Evans and won 2/2. I could also go on about every other top 6 team and it’s clear how they would struggle, Utd clearly do, Liverpool look a shadow of themselves without Mane etc etc.

Our scouting and and eye for a player is 2nd to none and that’s the main reason we’re, as some say, ‘punching above our weight’. About your last point, yeah Gerrard slipping was a freak, but as pointed out after the game, they set up a bit more at protecting a draw than relaxing and playing the same way that won them 11 in a row leading up to it - my point being he brought it on himself. Same as Bournemouth away, yes we were pathetic with the mistakes, but he fiddled at HT when anyone who watched the game saw us absolutely nail Bournemouth for relegation in the first half and he decides to change it then? If that’s not moronic I don’t know what is!!

 

I wasn’t calling the fans sheep’s or Nodding dogs that was more to people I’ve heard in media and call ins etc not this Leicester forum at all. I Credited your post to say it was balanced and used some good points.

It probably came across wrong how I said he’s a ‘clueless moron’ because it looked like I meant as a person in general , however I stick by it that he has ‘moron’ moments in him. His set up vs West Ham was absolutely clueless imo but it doesn’t distract away from him as an overall manager , but we were talking about this game in general and he got it wrong, so far wrong