A game too many!!

[Dahnsouff]

It’s not about FA cup or a European Tour** as the FA Cup is quite feasible during the run to top 4

 

** typing an European nearly broke my mind when typing it out, as fewkin English loves to take a dump on its own ‘rules’

(Like use an before a word that starts with a vowel)

 

[HighPeakFox]

Just now, TheStig said:

Why not do both?

Well of course - I was simply expressing one answer to the  'Cup final or ECL qualification - which do you want?' question. Cup final, Wembley trip, great. But I'll never forget  Madrid and I want to go back to Europe and see us play again in a great city. In other words, trips are available other than to Wembley  

[Voll Blau]

13 minutes ago, Raw Dykes said:

The big picture is that top 4 represents a major boost to the club. Aside from the cash, we'd be better able to keep our best players and also to sign the players we want. This would mean we'd have better chance of success in all competitions next year.

 

I'd like to see us grab this opportunity to push the club on to the next level and become one of those that is regularly competing for trophies. Being in the CL gets us a step closer to that.

There's absolutely no guarantee we'd be able to keep our best players just by playing in the Champions League. As has been pointed out, we couldn't even manage that when we won the league.

 

If we're not using our best players right now to try and win trophies then we're not using them correctly.

 

Out of interest, for how many sessons in a row do you think we should prioritise just qualifying for the CL before we decide winning trophies becomes a priority? 

[HighPeakFox]

1 minute ago, Voll Blau said:

There's absolutely no guarantee we'd be able to keep our best players just by playing in the Champions League.

Don't you think it's more likely we'll have to sell more if we don't?

[TheStig]

1 hour ago, HighPeakFox said:

Well of course - I was simply expressing one answer to the  'Cup final or ECL qualification - which do you want?' question. Cup final, Wembley trip, great. But I'll never forget  Madrid and I want to go back to Europe and see us play again in a great city. In other words, trips are available other than to Wembley  

I think they are two different issues really. The FA cup has prestige but no (not a lot at least) money. The ECL has prestige and money (although not a cup in the cupboard). Playing in the ECL makes us more attractive to class players and boosts the finances - which I think is very important for the next couple of years. So its really a no-brainer - ECL.

Im living in Denmark and have followed City since the sixties -  and one of the biggest and most pleasing things I ever (unexpectedly) experienced was winning the League. Was there for the run-in (West Ham) and  attended the ECL in Copenhagen and although the match was not very exhilerating being amongst City supporters and just "being there" was a blast.

 

Its really mind boggling to think of how far we have come.... should we win the FA cup or play in the ECL? .....:)

[HighPeakFox]

7 minutes ago, TheStig said:

I think they are two different issues really. The FA cup has prestige but no (not a lot at least) money. The ECL has prestige and money (although not a cup in the cupboard). Playing in the ECL makes us more attractive to class players and boosts the finances - which I think is very important for the next couple of years. So its really a no-brainer - ECL.

Im living in Denmark and have followed City since the sixties -  and one of the biggest and most pleasing things I ever (unexpectedly) experienced was winning the League. Was there for the run-in (West Ham) and  attended the ECL in Copenhagen and although the match was not very exhilerating being amongst City supporters and just "being there" was a blast.

 

Its really mind boggling to think of how far we have come.... should we win the FA cup or play in the ECL? .....:)

I don't really understand how this debate is going on in this thread, really. But yeah, exciting times - why indeed not both?

[Raw Dykes]

26 minutes ago, Voll Blau said:

There's absolutely no guarantee we'd be able to keep our best players just by playing in the Champions League. As has been pointed out, we couldn't even manage that when we won the league.

 

If we're not using our best players right now to try and win trophies then we're not using them correctly.

 

Out of interest, for how many sessons in a row do you think we should prioritise just qualifying for the CL before we decide winning trophies becomes a priority? 

I never said there was a guarantee. I said we'd be better able. Do you not agree we would be?

 

Come on. When we won the league, everyone strongly suspected it was a flash in the pan, and they were proven right the very next season. This time it's different. We've been improving year on year, and now we're at a point where we could be seriously threatening the big clubs consistently. We're far more established now. Our own players and potential signings will recognise that. We also made a right pig's ear of the transfer window immediately after winning the title. I can't see us making such a hash of it as we did then any time soon.

 

Re: How many seasons? As many as it takes to build a squad that can handle more than just the league. If we carry on getting transfers right at the rate we have been recently, then I don't think it will be long. I think we just need a bit more strength in depth in midfield and in our forward line and we're set. If we get the right striker, winger and midfielder in the summer, then I think we might have enough.

 

All I'm trying to say is that by finishing top 4 and getting into the CL, I think we have a golden opportunity to boost the club much closer towards being one that more regularly picks up silverware. I don't think a choice has to be made now, as our FA Cup tie has an international break immediately after it, but if I had to prioritise a competition, I'd definitely pick the league, as to me, at least, it's like a choice between a chance at lots of trophies in the near future and a crack at just this one FA Cup.

[sacreblueits442]

20 minutes ago, Raw Dykes said:

I never said there was a guarantee. I said we'd be better able. Do you not agree we would be?

 

Come on. When we won the league, everyone strongly suspected it was a flash in the pan, and they were proven right the very next season. This time it's different. We've been improving year on year, and now we're at a point where we could be seriously threatening the big clubs consistently. We're far more established now. Our own players and potential signings will recognise that. We also made a right pig's ear of the transfer window immediately after winning the title. I can't see us making such a hash of it as we did then any time soon.

 

Re: How many seasons? As many as it takes to build a squad that can handle more than just the league. If we carry on getting transfers right at the rate we have been recently, then I don't think it will be long. I think we just need a bit more strength in depth in midfield and in our forward line and we're set. If we get the right striker, winger and midfielder in the summer, then I think we might have enough.

 

All I'm trying to say is that by finishing top 4 and getting into the CL, I think we have a golden opportunity to boost the club much closer towards being one that more regularly picks up silverware. I don't think a choice has to be made now, as our FA Cup tie has an international break immediately after it, but if I had to prioritise a competition, I'd definitely pick the league, as to me, at least, it's like a choice between a chance at lots of trophies in the near future and a crack at just this one FA Cup.

...38 games of consistency and sheer bloody mindedness, and it was a flash in the pan!!!

The next season we lost Kante, the dynamics required to perpetrate the upward trend unravelled when Claudio started to move the goal post.

[Raw Dykes]

Just now, sacreblueits442 said:

...38 games of consistency and sheer bloody mindedness, and it was a flash in the pan!!!

The next season we lost Kante, the dynamics required to perpetrate the upward trend unravelled when Claudio started to move the goal post.

I don't think many people expected us to challenge for the title again the season after, even if we'd have kept Kante. I know I didn't.

[sacreblueits442]

19 minutes ago, Raw Dykes said:

I don't think many people expected us to challenge for the title again the season after, even if we'd have kept Kante. I know I didn't.

...I did not think that anyone was thinking about challenging for the league again!!!

I was responding to your post stating it was a flash in the pan and the proof was the following season.

[Vardinio'sCat]

Football history is littered with great teams that played themselves into ruinous fixture congestion.

 

A narrow focus worked for us in 15/16, let's hope we can make the most of it.

[weller54]

4 hours ago, Voll Blau said:

There's absolutely no guarantee we'd be able to keep our best players just by playing in the Champions League. As has been pointed out, we couldn't even manage that when we won the league.

 

If we're not using our best players right now to try and win trophies then we're not using them correctly.

 

Out of interest, for how many sessons in a row do you think we should prioritise just qualifying for the CL before we decide winning trophies becomes a priority? 

Here's a question for you..

Name some other PL teams who you think would prioritise winning the FA Cup over finishing in the top 4?

[KrefelderFox666]

16 minutes ago, weller54 said:

Here's a question for you..

Name some other PL teams who you think would prioritise winning the FA Cup over finishing in the top 4?

I mentioned this in another thread before. It really comes down to the situation of the club. Bottom line, every club will try to compete on all fronts. However, a team like Leicester who have never won the FA Cup may give it more attention than someone like Arsenal who have to play CL. Of course Top 4 is massive for any club but the FA Cup is also big for some clubs like us.

[Hoopla10]

2 hours ago, Raw Dykes said:

I don't think many people expected us to challenge for the title again the season after, even if we'd have kept Kante. I know I didn't.

People didn't expect us to win the league in the first place, I know I didn't... at some point maybe expectation don't mean anything. If Kante had stayed it would have provided better cover for our defense that was exposed that following season. He was a huge part of our ability to defend and counter. Stroppy Mahrez dropped off drastically because he wanted his ManC move so maybe it would have been a bigger challenge. But then by keeping Kante we could have cut him loose and used the money positively. I definitely think we could have got into the CL semis if Kante had stayed, probably fought for top 4 in the PL. Just sad really that after such huge success so many of the team wanted to bail. I know Kante still has a fondness for our club so I'm not judging him, it's just a shame, that's all. It would have been interesting to see how the team progressed if they had wanted to stay together. Interesting that a lot was said in the media about our sacking of Ranieri but it was almost an accepted reality that players like Mahrez and Kante would move to "bigger clubs". Lineker pretty said as much during the world cup before any had actually been sold. This weird double standard between club and individual. 

[NaijaFox]

12 hours ago, coolhandfox said:

It take time and money to develop a squad which can fight on multiple fronts.

 

Even with all their money and buying power, it took Man CIty 3 attempts to get out of the CL group phase, they also failed to get past the last 16 of the Europa twice.

We already have a squad that would have been able to compete on multiple fronts if not for the rash of injuries.

 

But that's the thing with injuries, they are unpredictable. Accordingly, while this has admittedly been a peculiar season, there's still no predicting the pattern of injuries in any season - we could have bigger squad and still have more (or crucial) injuries.

Edited 10 March 2021 by NaijaFox

[NaijaFox]

On 10/03/2021 at 03:27, yorkie1999 said:

I'd be quite happy to forego the FA cup as well, put a 2nd string out and break a few united legs.

On 10/03/2021 at 04:31, weller54 said:

Been saying this since the 3rd round!.. let's just concentrate on finishing in the top 4!.. would mean so much more to the progress as a Club than any FA Cup win. CL football will help attract the best players and keep the likes of Youri and Madders at the club.

While it wouldn't particularly crush me if we got knocked out of the Cup, while we are still in it we should be giving it our best shot!

Reality is that nothing is guaranteed, so we could essentially blow the Cup off (field 2d string team, etc.) and still lose out on a Top 4 place.

 

 

Edited 11 March 2021 by NaijaFox

[NaijaFox]

14 hours ago, Foxy_Bear said:

This rare week between games, along with the upcoming international break is exactly what our squad needed.

The break could be a good opertunity to give the players some time off too. Get them in to keep fitness levels up and let them spend some additional time with families etc. Let them be actual humans for a week or so. 

But our internationals (except the ones injured) will NOT get any rest during the upcoming international break. Let's just hope they stay injury-free.

[Jobyfox]

2 hours ago, weller54 said:

Here's a question for you..

Name some other PL teams who you think would prioritise winning the FA Cup over finishing in the top 4?

I can't understand why people get sensible and effective rotation confused with prioritising.

 

If it's an early round, against lower league opposition, then it's balanced risk rotation. Something we did pretty effectively in both the FA Cup and the Europa League in the early rounds. In the later rounds it's fewer players, but rotation is still necessary. The only reason we came unstuck against Slavia is because we'd run out of players to rotate into the side. It's not because we were 'prioritising'. 

 

Every team tries to rotate, but maybe some gamble more than others in the early rounds. The difference is some teams have pretty deep squads and some don't. The teams that qualify for Europe are the teams that win the cups and it's rarely an either/or. 

 

Personally I think we may have been able to compete on multiple fronts with a fully fit squad but, with our injury crisis, we can perhaps look at our exit from the Europa League as an opportunity to look after our battered and bruised players. The discussion around the FA Cup is largely obsolete now anyway. It's two extra games and then one post season finale if we go all the way. 

 

 

Edited 10 March 2021 by Jobyfox

[Lambert09]

2 hours ago, Hoopla10 said:

People didn't expect us to win the league in the first place, I know I didn't... at some point maybe expectation don't mean anything. If Kante had stayed it would have provided better cover for our defense that was exposed that following season. He was a huge part of our ability to defend and counter. Stroppy Mahrez dropped off drastically because he wanted his ManC move so maybe it would have been a bigger challenge. But then by keeping Kante we could have cut him loose and used the money positively. I definitely think we could have got into the CL semis if Kante had stayed, probably fought for top 4 in the PL. Just sad really that after such huge success so many of the team wanted to bail. I know Kante still has a fondness for our club so I'm not judging him, it's just a shame, that's all. It would have been interesting to see how the team progressed if they had wanted to stay together. Interesting that a lot was said in the media about our sacking of Ranieri but it was almost an accepted reality that players like Mahrez and Kante would move to "bigger clubs". Lineker pretty said as much during the world cup before any had actually been sold. This weird double standard between club and individual. 

You know when I look back I really think I’d we’d not won against Sunderland (first game) that season we probably wouldn’t have won the league. 
 

it’s amazing the small things that effect football.
 

That season truly made me question if budism was the one true religion  There’s a story behind this but I’m not sure it would sound sane 

[Dan]

I am totally on the trophies over top 4 side - but this season is very much the one-off for me. If we can't even witness it then it would be a crying shame.

[OntarioFox]

19 hours ago, Sol thewall Bamba said:

We'll be back in Europe very shortly and then it starts all over again. 

Hopefully, by then we've got our squad back in check from our pretty appalling luck with injuries, and the youngsters being blooded at present (Thomas, Tavares, Daley-Campbell, maybe Leshabela and Flynn) have spent long enough with the first team to be reliable deputies in our matchday squad. And that's to say nothing of the lads doing well on loan at places like OHL (Eppiah), Wycombe (Knight, possibly Muskwe) and Luton (Dewsbury-Hall) who may have similar first-team potential.

 

This coming season will be the perfect litmus test of how good our Academy actually is. And, while we may give some of the folks in charge some stick, the reality is we're actually in a very exciting position with young players coming through and a manager in Rodgers who is willing to give them their chance.

 

To think we've done this well so far with the squad decimation we currently have, while watching a team as supposedly star-studded as Liverpool use injury as a constant excuse for underperforming, is a remarkable testament to our character, our manager and - yes - the potential quality of the youth in our wings. Nobody we've thrown in has looked truly out of place so far, in the same way the likes of Barnes, Choudhury and Chilwell didn't on first introduction - raw, sure, but clearly with something there to be fine-tuned.

Edited 11 March 2021 by OntarioFox

[weller54]

6 hours ago, Lambert09 said:

You know when I look back I really think I’d we’d not won against Sunderland (first game) that season we probably wouldn’t have won the league. 
 

it’s amazing the small things that effect football.
 

That season truly made me question if budism was the one true religion  There’s a story behind this but I’m not sure it would sound sane 

Yes, it wasn't the likes of Kante, Mahrez , Vards who won us that title...

I can't believe its not Budda.

[sacreblueits442]

7 hours ago, Lambert09 said:

You know when I look back I really think I’d we’d not won against Sunderland (first game) that season we probably wouldn’t have won the league. 
 

it’s amazing the small things that effect football.
 

That season truly made me question if budism was the one true religion  There’s a story behind this but I’m not sure it would sound sane 

...you could say the same in most of the games in that season!!!

  What was so noticeable for me was that even in games where we were losing by more than one goal, there was the belief that the game was not lost.

  Regarding your theory behind what happened to us in that season,  I would be intrigued to hear it.

[honeybradger]

4 hours ago, Dan LCFC said:

I am totally on the trophies over top 4 side - but this season is very much the one-off for me. If we can't even witness it then it would be a crying shame.

Fans might be allowed back in some capacity in time for the final. While it would be good to win it this year, winning the FA cup for the first time with no fans definitely would put a dampener on it.

[Voll Blau]

16 hours ago, HighPeakFox said:

Don't you think it's more likely we'll have to sell more if we don't?

Yes, but what exactly are we keeping them for anyway if we're not trying to use them to win stuff now?

 

 

14 hours ago, Raw Dykes said:

Re: How many seasons? As many as it takes to build a squad that can handle more than just the league. If we carry on getting transfers right at the rate we have been recently, then I don't think it will be long. I think we just need a bit more strength in depth in midfield and in our forward line and we're set. If we get the right striker, winger and midfielder in the summer, then I think we might have enough.

 

You see, this is where the logic of the argument falls down for me. No-one can give a definitive date on this idea of exactly how strong we should be for when we give the Cups a real good go - and no-one has been able to since we were promoted. Every single season I see the argument being made that we need to concentrate on the league "just this year", no matter what the context - whether we're challenging for the title or fighting relegation.

 

I guarantee the same arguments would continue to be made even if we were 10 points clear at the top at this stage of the season for the next two or three years. People are just so scared of how Cup runs will affect our league form when the reality is bottling out of them has done us absolutely no good in the league in recent years.

 

11 hours ago, weller54 said:

Here's a question for you..

Name some other PL teams who you think would prioritise winning the FA Cup over finishing in the top 4?

Clubs themselves are dictated by their financial worth these days sadly, so barely any. Supporters of those clubs though, like we are? I'd say the vast majority of matchgoing ones would definitely prefer the former - especially if the club they support has never won it before.