Final Dilemma

[NewquayFox]

7 minutes ago, Strokes said:

Nope?

What will they learn from putting 4k  neutral fans into Wembley that we don’t already know?

Probably order them to just sit and watch the game, no cheering, singing or celebrating anything, they could have tried that out at The Etihad Stadium for any home Man City game... 

[Strokes]

9 minutes ago, Captain... said:

One way systems, sanitizing stations, social distancing entering and exiting the stadium. Capacity for things like toilets and refreshments. You don't want people massing and queuing inside for the loos or food. You can try and model it but you can't predict it.

But as you say, how does that help when home and away fans will behave very differently?

[davieG]

Everyone in England is to be given access to two rapid coronavirus tests a week from Friday, under an extension of the government's testing programme.

 

 

Any "Covid passport" scheme to prove people in England are safe to attend mass-audience events would be "time-limited", the government said.

A "Covid status certification" scheme is being developed to enable concerts and sporting matches to take place.

It would record whether people had been vaccinated, recently tested negative or had natural immunity, having already had a bout of coronavirus.

The government is also trialling other ways of holding mass events safely.

Sports Minister Nigel Huddleston said the trials would be a "learning experience" and no decisions had been made about processes or vaccine certification.

Improved ventilation and testing before and after events are among the other approaches being tested for mass gatherings and indoor events, including sports matches and nightclubs.

[Strokes]

10 minutes ago, AKCJ said:

I'm not sure why you think who the fans support a big difference.

I’m not sure why you don’t?

[sdb]

I genuinely think soton will beat us. Their season is over bar the game at Wembley. I guess the silver lining would be no more arguments and frustration over ticket allocation.

[Mr Weller]

To be clear I was talking about my chances of going to the final but new

hope beckons because it seems testing negative close to the game would also count!

[MGLCFC]

10 hours ago, Mr Weller said:

I listened to our semi final replay against Liverpool  in 74 on the radio as a child because I was too young to go. It was heartbreaking.

 

I was at Villa Park in 82 as a teenager when we lost to Spurs. It was awful.

 

Now we face Southampton in the best semi final chance of my life with the very real prospect of a Wembley final.

 

But I won’t be going if we get there because it’s a test event for vaccinated people and although I have had my first jab my son will have not. He was upset he would be effectively barred from this ‘once in a lifetime’ opportunity because he won’t have been vaccinated and I I couldn’t go on my own and leave him behind.

 

So I face the prospect of missing out again and who knows when I’ll get another chance? 
 

Talk about bittersweet...

With the team we have at present, I sincerely hope it's won't be nearly 40 years until another Wembley final. 

[st albans fox]

2 minutes ago, Mr Weller said:

To be clear I was talking about my chances of going to the final but new

hope beckons because it seems testing negative close to the game would also count!

Do you think it tempts fate to post about the likely struggles to attend a game we haven’t qualified for ?? 
 

[Mr Weller]

Not really. I doubt fate has anything to do with whether we beat Southampton. Let’s face it, it’s more likely than not as we’re the better team on most days. Of course we could lose but that’s true of any match.

[SemperEadem]

Losing this one with no fans and having been to none of the previous rounds will i’m sure hurt a lot less than the previous occasions. 

[Matt]

1 hour ago, Captain... said:

Why? It's a test event not a license to break all travel and stay local restrictions.

 

Neutral fans at a neutral venue much easier to regulate than actual fans at their home ground.

 

It is just a small step towards what we all want.

Granted and i'd agree if they hadn't then followed this up by allowing fans 8,000 fans to attend the Carabao Cup Final literally 7 days on from our semi-final where fans of Tottenham (Ok, you could argue they're local to said neutral venue) and Man City (Who will need to travel) can attend.

 

If there was say a month between the two dates then I could accept it holds some kind of reasoning but doubling the allocation and allowing fans of both clubs to travel in a 7 day period holds no reasoning whatsoever in my eyes.

 

That said when have any of this country's restrictions, the implementation and handling of them ever been reasonable and understandable throughout this pandemic.

 

Edited 5 April 2021 by Matt

[Zear0]

31 minutes ago, Strokes said:

I’m not sure why you don’t?

Think I'm with Strokes on this ones and I'll explain why. 

 

I attended the Man City v Watford FA Cup Final the other year as have a friend who works for the FA and had some available tickets. On the day, I arrived, walked quietly with my dad straight to the seats, watched the game and went straight home.

 

The supports of the respective teams had spent plenty of time enjoying themselves down the bars on Wembley way, were congregating in large clusters and socialising significantly more than neutrals. Not to forget a rather key aspect to all this, a lot of them were, rightly so, a bit pi**ed.

 

What's my point? Human factors and behaviours is surely the main element of these test events? A quick Google shows me thy Wembley has 164 turnstiles, 2,500 toilets and also 15 "zones" where each area of the stadium is segregated. Managing 4,000 people attending the above could be done at a weekend using the staff of the stadium and provide the same lessons (scaled down of course) . What exactly will they learn? Funnily enough neutrals on a day out will be very compliant and stand nicely on the 2m stickers in the floor. They also have 1.5 person per bog so think they'll successfully manage that one. 

 

I know bugger all about event coordination, but I do have experience of design for experiments and this to me seems to be tokenism as they're not testing the scenario. Given the Euros are soon upon us and host venues will, potentially, be dropping out, Wembley may have several capacity events in a few months. Might be worth getting a wriggle on and doing worthwhile tests if that's what they actually want right? 

[The whole world smiles]

10 hours ago, Costock_Fox said:

Sounds like an FM regen, gerrimin.

Sounds like a policy from the 3rd Reich. 

[Captain...]

38 minutes ago, Strokes said:

But as you say, how does that help when home and away fans will behave very differently?

2 reasons.

 

1 if anything goes wrong with neutral fans then you've not completely fvcked up their day out. If it takes too long to get everyone seated you're not going to have a riot. They probably won't be drinking beforehand and won't be spilling out into the streets and transport system after.

 

2 if you can't get it right with a handful of neutral fans you shouldn't be letting real fans in.

 

It is a very sensible approach to use the 2 semi finals as test events, you have 2 hits at it with the end goal having real fans in at the final. By the time the final cones around they will have had 2 test events the vaccine will be wider spread and hopefully the number of cases will be much lower.

 

They learn nothing with no fans, they risk very little to potentially learn a lot with neutral local fans, with the end goal being real fans for the final. Why would they not?

[Mike Oxlong]

17 minutes ago, SemperEadem said:

Losing this one with no fans and having been to none of the previous rounds will i’m sure hurt a lot less than the previous occasions. 

Going to watch us play Man City in the final will likely be as much fun and a similar price to root canal work 

[Matt]

2 minutes ago, Captain... said:

2 reasons.

 

1 if anything goes wrong with neutral fans then you've not completely fvcked up their day out. If it takes too long to get everyone seated you're not going to have a riot. They probably won't be drinking beforehand and won't be spilling out into the streets and transport system after.

 

2 if you can't get it right with a handful of neutral fans you shouldn't be letting real fans in.

 

It is a very sensible approach to use the 2 semi finals as test events, you have 2 hits at it with the end goal having real fans in at the final. By the time the final cones around they will have had 2 test events the vaccine will be wider spread and hopefully the number of cases will be much lower.

 

They learn nothing with no fans, they risk very little to potentially learn a lot with neutral local fans, with the end goal being real fans for the final. Why would they not?

Correct me if i'm wrong but I think they're only using 1 semi final, our semi final as a test event.

 

As my first post was making the point though 7 days later you're letting fans in of 2 clubs which asks questions of the points you're making - points i'd agree with if they didn't contradict it by doubling the allocation and allowing fans of the 2 clubs involved literally 7 days later.

[foxinsocks]

3 hours ago, Heathrow fox said:

The poster might live in Wembley Park,work for Brent Council and be a keen volunteer in the local sector.With the added advantage of being best mates with the bloke dishing out the tickets.Then again probably not.

I will check the Brent council website situations vacant

[Captain...]

10 minutes ago, Matt said:

Granted and i'd agree if they hadn't then followed this up by allowing fans 8,000 fans to attend the Carabao Cup Final literally 7 days on from our semi-final where fans of Tottenham (Ok, you could argue they're local to said neutral venue) and Man City (Who will need to travel) can attend.

 

If there was say a month between the two dates then I could accept it holds some kind of reasoning but doubling the allocation and allowing fans of both clubs to travel in a 7 day period holds no reasoning whatsoever in my eyes.

 

I didn't know that, but it strengthens the reasoning, they need to test the protocols before the league cup final. If anything that makes it even more to do a test run before the league cup final and 8,000 fans.

 

2 chances to make sure everything is in place for the league cup final. Again it's risk free, they couldn't really have fans at the semi it be a disaster and then 8000 fans turn up a week later. They can't cancel fans at the league cup final at this late stage.

[foxinsocks]

42 minutes ago, Mr Weller said:

To be clear I was talking about my chances of going to the final but new

hope beckons because it seems testing negative close to the game would also count!

Apply for this 

https://lbbrent.referrals.selectminds.com/jobs/cemeteries-and-funerals-support-officer-1697

[Collymore]

10 hours ago, Mr Weller said:

But I won’t be going if we get there because it’s a test event for vaccinated people and although I have had my first jab my son will have not. He was upset he would be effectively barred from this ‘once in a lifetime’ opportunity because he won’t have been vaccinated and I I couldn’t go on my own and leave him behind.

From this then I take it you both live in the selection area in London and meet the profession criteria? Even so, I'm not sure what the chances are to even get a ticket then 

 

This is nothing new to some of us. I remember having to watch the Everton game on Sky when we lifted the trophy. I watched probably thousands of plastics sitting somewhere which would have been the pinnacle of my life and it hurt, a lot! 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Collymore]

10 hours ago, Mr Weller said:

He was upset he would be effectively barred from this ‘once in a lifetime

Also I'm a logical person and this doesn't make much sense as everything over the last 5 years doesn't point to this being a "once in a lifetime opportunity"

 

It would have felt like it 10 years a go making it this far for sure, but surely even the most pessimistic person would look at how things are going and concede it's quite likely we might be seeing other semi finals/finals in the near future. 

 

 

[st albans fox]

9 minutes ago, Matt said:

Correct me if i'm wrong but I think they're only using 1 semi final, our semi final as a test event.

 

As my first post was making the point though 7 days later you're letting fans in of 2 clubs which asks questions of the points you're making - points i'd agree with if they didn't contradict it by doubling the allocation and allowing fans of the 2 clubs involved literally 7 days later.

Do you know how many actual fans of each club are being allowed into the CC final ?  I don’t think it’s that many and I suspect it will be the prawn sandwich brigade who have paid many thousands of pounds for boxes/seats that they haven’t used and the clubs will try and claw some of that back by giving them the chance to attend the final. They won’t be very representative of a normal supporter .....

[Matt]

4 minutes ago, st albans fox said:

Do you know how many actual fans of each club are being allowed into the CC final ?  I don’t think it’s that many and I suspect it will be the prawn sandwich brigade who have paid many thousands of pounds for boxes/seats that they haven’t used and the clubs will try and claw some of that back by giving them the chance to attend the final. They won’t be very representative of a normal supporter .....

And I’d expect that to be the same if 4,000 fans of both Leicester v Southampton were allowed in if I’m honest.

 

Do I honestly believe I’d get a ticket for it if I was allowed? Not really.

 

But I’m arguing the differences, the reasoning behind it regardless of it being the common fan or the corporate fan.

 

The fact it’s Man City corporates (£’s, £‘s, £‘s) as you’re alluding to probably says a lot about why they’re allowed to attend.

 

Edited 5 April 2021 by Matt

[st albans fox]

Just now, Matt said:

And I’d expect that to be the same if 4,000 fans of both Leicester v Southampton were allowed in if I’m honest.

 

Do I honestly believe I’d get a ticket for it if I was allowed? Not really.

 

But I’m arguing the differences, the reasoning behind it regardless of it being the common fan or the corporate fan.

 

The fact it’s Man City corporates as you’re alluding to probably says a lot about why they’re allowed to attend.

I’m guessing that it won’t be more than 2k from each club ......  probably box holders and players families ...

[Big Dave]

11 hours ago, Mr Weller said:

I listened to our semi final replay against Liverpool  in 74 on the radio as a child because I was too young to go. It was heartbreaking.

 

I was at Villa Park in 82 as a teenager when we lost to Spurs. It was awful.

 

Now we face Southampton in the best semi final chance of my life with the very real prospect of a Wembley final.

 

But I won’t be going if we get there because it’s a test event for vaccinated people and although I have had my first jab my son will have not. He was upset he would be effectively barred from this ‘once in a lifetime’ opportunity because he won’t have been vaccinated and I I couldn’t go on my own and leave him behind.

 

So I face the prospect of missing out again and who knows when I’ll get another chance? 
 

Talk about bittersweet...

Isn’t it going to be based on the Covid passport? If so, this will be either a vaccination, evidence of Covid antibodies, or a recent negative test.  Announced today that every person can now have 2 lateral flow tests per week.