Brendan Rodgers

[walkerleeds]

7 minutes ago, Jobyfox said:

 

No, you're much better off picking whatever arbitrary measure you can find that illustrates the point you want to make as a form of confirmation bias  

 

Please do correct me, has a Leicester manager ever been given the same resources Rodgers has?

[CosbehFox]

41 minutes ago, walkerleeds said:

 

Firstly, you can't compare Rodgers to our other managers. He has an outrageous squad comparatively and works in a training facility rivalling most in world football I would imagine. The others didn't have anything like this kind of assistance, so we might as well put win percentages to bed. He also failed to get us CL football two seasons in a row and has failed to achieve any form of European football this season. That, despite the fact many of the traditional big(ger) clubs have gone AWOL the last few years (Arsenal and Man Utd).

 

Having said that, I do believe the Fofana injury was a major reason we only just scraped a top half finish last season (we were 14th after the Roma game before playing a couple of relegated sides), as the confidence he brings to the team from a psychological perspective is crucial.

 

He obviously has a good relationship with the board, so isn't going anywhere soon. But if we're not looking close to challenging for Europe at all, then what's the point in having the 4th(?) highest paid manager in the league here? 

Puel’s last game starting 11 of:- 

Schmeichel, Pereira, Evans, Maguire, Fuchs, Maddison, NDidi, Tielemans, Ghezzal, Vardy, Barnes 

 

Rodgers opening day of his first full season:- 

Schmeichel, Pereira, Evans, Soyuncu, Chilwell, N’Didi, Tielemans, Choudhury, Maddison, Vardy, Perez 

 

Not huge differences there for me. 

[foxinsocks]

12 hours ago, Ric Flair said:

Because we need new players but we have a manager who works better with players he inherits but even that will wain eventually. Its why many want him gone, I'm back on the fence.

Get off the fence... you'll break it

[coolhandfox]

1 hour ago, walkerleeds said:

 

Firstly, you can't compare Rodgers to our other managers. He has an outrageous squad comparatively and works in a training facility rivalling most in world football I would imagine. The others didn't have anything like this kind of assistance, so we might as well put win percentages to bed. He also failed to get us CL football two seasons in a row and has failed to achieve any form of European football this season. That, despite the fact many of the traditional big(ger) clubs have gone AWOL the last few years (Arsenal and Man Utd).

So you can't praise him because he had more resources than other LCFC managers? 

 

But you can criticise him for failing to compete with teams that have more resources?

 

Nice logic, you can't have your cake and eat it.

 

1 hour ago, walkerleeds said:

Having said that, I do believe the Fofana injury was a major reason we only just scraped a top half finish last season (we were 14th after the Roma game before playing a couple of relegated sides), as the confidence he brings to the team from a psychological perspective is crucial.

 

He obviously has a good relationship with the board, so isn't going anywhere soon. But if we're not looking close to challenging for Europe at all, then what's the point in having the 4th(?) highest paid manager in the league here? 

Who said we weren't unless you have an insight into the objectives Top has set him.

[Jobyfox]

1 hour ago, walkerleeds said:

 

Please do correct me, has a Leicester manager ever been given the same resources Rodgers has?

Well I can’t see that he’s being given much this season but, no doubt, some will use it as another stick to beat him with. 
 

Whatever his detractors say 5th, 5th, 8th and an FA Cup is an excellent achievement for a club our size. If people think we compete with the (obvious) big six by right and not by exception, then I have nothing to say really as it’s unlikely that we’ll ever change each other’s views. 
 

There are things I like about BR and plenty that I don’t. On balance we have to assess whether the team is still playing for him or whether somebody else, who’s realistically available, could get more out of it.

 

It’s just the delusions of grandeur and entitlement on this thread that depress me - and the personal attacks on our manager. Personally, I couldn’t care less whether he speaks a load of bullshit, in a completely staged interview, with a press that are hanging onto every nuance of his response to make a story. 

[Dan]

5 hours ago, Col city fan said:

Exactly how I see it.

If you get ONE wrong, it’ll have knock-on effects cos you’ve spent decent money on rubbish that you can’t sell and you’re having to fund their salaries. 
But we’ve got plenty wrong over the last few years, starting with the calamity that was the summer transfer window following the title winning season.

The big clubs can absorb it. Eg Chelsea and Lukaku.. they’ll still go on to make key signings this summer I expect. 
But we can’t afford that luxury. We have to get it right every time.

 

Completely agree. It's more important the smaller you are. We have punched above our weight but the majority of concerns I read on here, while the odd one is obviously melodramatic I think have been quite fair and largely a case of seeing problems before they really manifest.

 

Even Chelsea for all they can absorb it, their own recruitment flaws have left them miles behind the other two. I'm convinced about 90% of a teams progress, possibly even more, is linked to how well they recruit. It's basically what turned us from provincial nobodies to a side people genuinely thought could push the top 6, and not just our own fans.

 

So forgive us if we're sceptical and see issues coming. We've seen what it takes.

 

As for Rodgers I'm torn - I do think he's likely been let down somewhat but I think we're largely in this situation because of the poor recruitment since Congerton arrived, and Congerton was quite clearly linked to him. I think he operates in a way where he thinks we can absorb these gambles as you put it and we simply can't.

 

Leicester as a club do not have the luxury to spend what we did on Praet, freeze him out, do the same with Soumare and then freeze him out as well, without consequences. People point to the Bertrand / Vestergaard signings as a problem (rightly) but this largely gets ignored. It's this kind of inefficiency that sets us back. What have we spent on those two and what do we get for it?

[Dusty]

1 hour ago, walkerleeds said:

 

Firstly, you can't compare Rodgers to our other managers. He has an outrageous squad comparatively and works in a training facility rivalling most in world football I would imagine. The others didn't have anything like this kind of assistance, so we might as well put win percentages to bed. He also failed to get us CL football two seasons in a row and has failed to achieve any form of European football this season. That, despite the fact many of the traditional big(ger) clubs have gone AWOL the last few years (Arsenal and Man Utd).

 

Having said that, I do believe the Fofana injury was a major reason we only just scraped a top half finish last season (we were 14th after the Roma game before playing a couple of relegated sides), as the confidence he brings to the team from a psychological perspective is crucial.

 

He obviously has a good relationship with the board, so isn't going anywhere soon. But if we're not looking close to challenging for Europe at all, then what's the point in having the 4th(?) highest paid manager in the league here? 

I agree that it’s hard to compare him to the other managers but if we measure his and our success over the last few years to the teams around us in the table over the last few years I think we get a good procure of how he’s performed.
 

The teams that we have been competing with over the last 3 seasons have included: Man U, Arsenal, Spurs, West Ham, Wolves, and I’m going to include villa because I see people compare us to them on a regular basis. 
 

The combined points table from the last 3 seasons is:

1. Man U 198
2. Spurs 192

3. Arsenal 186

4. LCFC 180

5. West Ham 160

6. Wolves 155

7. Villa 135

Us and Arsenal are the only teams to have won a trophy, with 2 each. Rodgers’ league finishes in that time are 5th, 5th and 8th. Which rank 2nd, 2nd and 4th in historical LCFC premier league finishes.

 

So we’ve been comfortably clear of the other teams as being the ‘next best’ outside the top 6. The net spends for the teams in that time are: 

1. Leicester £-69m

2.  Wolves £-96m

3. West Ham £-170m

4. Spurs £-217m

5. Villa £-226m

6. Arsenal £-278m

7. Man U £-293m

 

And I’m going to compare the combined first team squad player wages in that time, there’s no way of knowing these for sure but it’s quite often argued that we spend too much so I thought I’d include what I can find here:

1. Villa £137

2. Wolves £145m

3. LCFC £203m

4. West Ham £212m

5. Spurs £274m

6. Arsenal £326m

7. Arsenal £544m

The only other person that has had comparable consistent success with relatively little spend would be MoN, but even then the spend difference between us and the top was probably smaller.

 

As much as people hate to admit it, we probably have over achieved a bit in the last few of years. Rodgers is paid more than all the other non ‘top 6’ managers, but has achieved more success than all of them and by spending less in transfer fees and similar amounts in wages, so you could argue that he’s earned that wage.

 

FYI I had an hour long meeting that I didn’t need to attend so spent it doing this. 

[Guest Col city fan]

14 minutes ago, Dan LCFC said:

Completely agree. It's more important the smaller you are. We have punched above our weight but the majority of concerns I read on here, while the odd one is obviously melodramatic I think have been quite fair and largely a case of seeing problems before they really manifest.

 

Even Chelsea for all they can absorb it, their own recruitment flaws have left them miles behind the other two. I'm convinced about 90% of a teams progress, possibly even more, is linked to how well they recruit. It's basically what turned us from provincial nobodies to a side people genuinely thought could push the top 6, and not just our own fans.

 

So forgive us if we're sceptical and see issues coming. We've seen what it takes.

 

As for Rodgers I'm torn - I do think he's likely been let down somewhat but I think we're largely in this situation because of the poor recruitment since Congerton arrived, and Congerton was quite clearly linked to him. I think he operates in a way where he thinks we can absorb these gambles as you put it and we simply can't.

 

Leicester as a club do not have the luxury to spend what we did on Praet, freeze him out, do the same with Soumare and then freeze him out as well, without consequences. People point to the Bertrand / Vestergaard signings as a problem (rightly) but this largely gets ignored. It's this kind of inefficiency that sets us back. What have we spent on those two and what do we get for it?

[walkerleeds]

16 minutes ago, Jobyfox said:

Well I can’t see that he’s being given much this season but, no doubt, some will use it as another stick to beat him with. 
 

Whatever his detractors say 5th, 5th, 8th and an FA Cup is an excellent achievement for a club our size. If people think we compete with the (obvious) big six by right and not by exception, then I have nothing to say really as it’s unlikely that we’ll ever change each other’s views. 
 

There are things I like about BR and plenty that I don’t. On balance we have to assess whether the team is still playing for him or whether somebody else, who’s realistically available, could get more out of it.

 

It’s just the delusions of grandeur and entitlement on this thread that depress me - and the personal attacks on our manager. Personally, I couldn’t care less whether he speaks a load of bullshit, in a completely staged interview, with a press that are hanging onto every nuance of his response to make a story. 

 

I'd have snapped your hand off for two 5th place finishes at the start of each season. 

 

However, what has/ had become abundantly clear was that the team belonged at the top end of the table, despite us being "little old Leicester" to many people. We imploded spectacularly in the two 5th place finishes which didn't represent a true indication of how the seasons went, and obviously last season didn't really begin did it, so i'm presuming the frustration is that there seems to be quite a regression in our performance in relation to what the squad is capable of achieving.

 

Having Fofana back is massive and in Rodgers' defence, I think his absence was the reason last season was a non starter. I also think Tielemans, if he stays, will look better by not playing a game every 48 hours which is vital in us effectively dictating play.

[Daggers]

5 hours ago, Nick said:

…some of our fans need a dose of realism.

No I don’t. 
 

I need the moon on a stick. 

[walkerleeds]

46 minutes ago, coolhandfox said:

So you can't praise him because he had more resources than other LCFC managers? 

 

But you can criticise him for failing to compete with teams that have more resources?

 

Nice logic, you can't have your cake and eat it.

 

Who said we weren't unless you have an insight into the objectives Top has set him.

 

But our team was better than some of the other sides we cannot compete with financially, that's the point. Our team's potential came to fruition and coming into the final 8 games or so, you'd have rather had our XI than Man Utd's and Chelsea's or both occasions, hence the frustration. Of course I have praised him for the FA cup win, obviously, but the fact he's outperforming his predecessors isn't exactly a shock, given the wages, transfer fees and training facility.  

 

I don't actually care if he stays or goes to be honest, and I do think losing Fofana was a massive blow last season so I am intrigued to see if the regression can be halted with his return from the outset. 

 

 

 

[Jobyfox]

3 minutes ago, walkerleeds said:

 

But our team was better than some of the other sides we cannot compete with financially, that's the point. Our team's potential came to fruition and coming into the final 8 games or so, you'd have rather had our XI than Man Utd's and Chelsea's or both occasions, hence the frustration. Of course I have praised him for the FA cup win, obviously, but the fact he's outperforming his predecessors isn't exactly a shock, given the wages, transfer fees and training facility.  

 

I don't actually care if he stays or goes to be honest, and I do think losing Fofana was a massive blow last season so I am intrigued to see if the regression can be halted with his return from the outset. 

 

 

 

Yep, to be fair a lot of my comments weren’t about your post’s specifically, but more a response to the sometimes depressing negativity in this thread. 
 

You can argue BR’s failure to reach Champions League two ways. Did he lose his way completely in the run-in and fail to secure something that he should, by that point, have in the bag? Yes, probably, he ran out of ideas as the team ran out of form. Did he have the team over-performing to be in the position to compete in the first place? In my opinion he probably did. 
 

I’m really not sure our squad is that good, to be honest, when compared to the big six. Certainly it’s, at best, stood still in the last few windows. Our ability to challenge them was as much to do with their own poor management and form than it was about their or our quality and depth. 
 

[sacreblueits442]

1 hour ago, Nick said:

... now we want players that can keep us in and break the top 6... much different calibre of player and we are swimming with the big sharks looking for pickings from the scarcer waters that have been missed or left behind. It’s a tough ask and some of our fans need a dose of realism.

...it is this change of policy that is the stumbling block!!!

  We are looking for players who now has proven track records at home and abroad. They may be fringe players of the big beasts and come in a certain price range.

  There are still quality below those targets we ar3 now after and we are looking in the wrong places. You can see teams picking up players for about half the price that we are willing to pay, we have just stop shopping in the right places.

[Dan]

We have overachieved relative to spend without a doubt. But we also acquired a squad for much less than their real value. We've stopped doing this.

[Leeds Fox]

2 hours ago, Dan LCFC said:

Leicester as a club do not have the luxury to spend what we did on Praet, freeze him out, do the same with Soumare and then freeze him out as well, without consequences. People point to the Bertrand / Vestergaard signings as a problem (rightly) but this largely gets ignored. It's this kind of inefficiency that sets us back. What have we spent on those two and what do we get for it?

This might sound a little bit daft… but I think it gets ignored because almost everyone on here knew they were going to turn out to be completely useless. 

[JimmyC74]

15 hours ago, coolhandfox said:

Massive issue. 

 

Really need Daka to kick on.

With regards Daka and getting the best out of him does that require Brendan to change formation. Not sure single striker set-up suits the lad

[coolhandfox]

52 minutes ago, JimmyC74 said:

With regards Daka and getting the best out of him does that require Brendan to change formation. Not sure single striker set-up suits the lad

I think it not so much playing as a lone front man as having a team around you that creates chances, get a quality RW, Maddison and Barnes on form the job is a lot easier.  

 

In minutes Daka played 1159 (12 full games), his record of 5 goals and 3 assists is decent, repeat that over a 38 games season and that's 16 goals and 10 assists.

 

Edited 12 July 2022 by coolhandfox

[Claridge]

Next season we will certainly stay up, probably be top10 and could challenge the top 6 under Rodgers. Sudden change of manager, then anything could happen. Not a gamble I would take and I am Top

[JimmyC74]

1 minute ago, coolhandfox said:

I think it not so much playing as a lone front man as having a team around you that creates chances, get a quality RW, Maddison and Barnes on form the job is a lot easier.  

 

In minutes Daka (1159) played 1159, 12 full games, his record of 5 goals and 3 assists is decent, repeat that over a 38 games season and that's 16 goals and 10 assists.

 

Yes, really hope we can bring in a first XI RW. 
 

Daka can be a success but as you say needs the service.

[Bourbon Fox]

Football 365 really going in dry...

 

https://www.football365.com/news/brendan-rodgers-bull-worried-leicester-city

[Nick]

2 hours ago, sacreblueits442 said:

...it is this change of policy that is the stumbling block!!!

  We are looking for players who now has proven track records at home and abroad. They may be fringe players of the big beasts and come in a certain price range.

  There are still quality below those targets we ar3 now after and we are looking in the wrong places. You can see teams picking up players for about half the price that we are willing to pay, we have just stop shopping in the right places.

Yep it’s a toughie, lots of sides buying what look to be sub 20 million bargains but wether they’ll be players that are fighting for a space in a top 6 side or players just good enough to keep sides in the Premier League, I guess only time will tell and that’s where the art form is… probably doesn’t help not having somebody as head of recruitment in place atm! Hopefully we’ll find that basement bargain of competitive quality that’s out there!

 

maybe we are shopping in the right places but keeping our powder dry until funds become available?

[Lambert09]

can someone explain to me why locking any manager down to a long term deal makes sense? 

 

I know you are then eligible for some compensation but if a manager wants to leave, they always do. You never end up with a manager forced to see out a contract. 

 

I just can’t understand why we felt the need to go quite so crazy with both rodgers and the leuven boss. 

 

Or even more crazy the pardew one…. 

[filbertway]

40 minutes ago, coolhandfox said:

I think it not so much playing as a lone front man as having a team around you that creates chances, get a quality RW, Maddison and Barnes on form the job is a lot easier.  

 

In minutes Daka played 1159 (12 full games), his record of 5 goals and 3 assists is decent, repeat that over a 38 games season and that's 16 goals and 10 assists.

 

Is that including the 4 goals Patson scored in 33 mad minutes, or just league minutes?

 

Surely he scored in more than 2 games?

 

Okay I checked it out, you were just referring to league games  

 

I was getting ready to check myself into a mental asylum haha

Edited 12 July 2022 by filbertway

[coolhandfox]

33 minutes ago, filbertway said:

Is that including the 4 goals Patson scored in 33 mad minutes, or just league minutes?

 

Surely he scored in more than 2 games?

 

Okay I checked it out, you were just referring to league games  

 

I was getting ready to check myself into a mental asylum haha

Just league, that game in Moscow was crazy!

[Dan]

2 hours ago, Leeds Fox said:

This might sound a little bit daft… but I think it gets ignored because almost everyone on here knew they were going to turn out to be completely useless. 

I meant the other way really - that people focus on the Southampton duo but largely ignore some of the other errors we've made. Regardless of peoples feelings on Praet as a player the fact he wants Soumare out is quite damning. So we'd be no worse off if we'd just kept Praet all along, even despite their supposedly poor relationship.

 

I thought Bertrand made some sense but it became obvious quite early on that he was totally done at this level.