VAR

[RonnieTodger]

The general defence of VAR is "It's not VAR, it's people using it wot are wrong!!"

 

Unless they want robots, then it will always be like this. It went our way in the cup final and got the right decision, but overall it is still just awful. We've basically sacrificed enjoying goals properly, for a few more correct decisions.

 

Ask yourself, was football better before VAR? 

[StanSP]

11 minutes ago, RonnieTodger said:

We've basically sacrificed enjoying goals properly

Sorry but when you look at the elation of fans after Youri's screamer this is incorrect. The natural reaction to celebrate a goal is still always there. 

 

11 minutes ago, RonnieTodger said:

Ask yourself, was football better before VAR? 

In some ways, yes and no. 

 

Yes because it seemed purer. More authentic. More raw. 

 

No because the amount of times any fans were livid at a decision going against them, then they find out it was human error that led to it through an official getting it totally wrong and it genuinely affecting the outcome of a game. 

 

I'm not dumb enough to think there's not been howlers in place even when VAR has come in. Happy to fully admit it isn't perfect! I don't think it will always be like this. 

 

The referees using the technology now are the same ones that get shit wrong on the pitch very badly - you'd like to think if they're trained on the technology better or if the rules are clarified so there's very little grey areas then the use of VAR technology would become more efficient. 

And for what it's worth, I hate when the decisions are miniscule where they're measuring toenails or armpits in offside positions or not. That's far too precise and goes against the response earlier about football being better - it's decisions like that that give football/VAR a bad name. 

[Lesta2014]

17 minutes ago, RonnieTodger said:

The general defence of VAR is "It's not VAR, it's people using it wot are wrong!!"

 

Unless they want robots, then it will always be like this. It went our way in the cup final and got the right decision, but overall it is still just awful. We've basically sacrificed enjoying goals properly, for a few more correct decisions.

 

Ask yourself, was football better before VAR? 

For me it was more real, decision given job done moan or cheer, right or wrong it’s done. The fact it can be wrong twice makes it all the worse for me! 
 

not a fan of VAR in current climate it needs work. However helped us win the FA cup so to quote shearer ‘I never want to hear you moan about var ever again’ 

 

ps i will still moan

[Leeds Fox]

15 minutes ago, RonnieTodger said:

The general defence of VAR is "It's not VAR, it's people using it wot are wrong!!"

 

Unless they want robots, then it will always be like this. It went our way in the cup final and got the right decision, but overall it is still just awful. We've basically sacrificed enjoying goals properly, for a few more correct decisions.

 

Ask yourself, was football better before VAR? 

Robots can’t make subjective calls such as penalty claims or red card decisions.

 

In my opinion, VAR officials should watch a challenge in real-time speed, a maximum of 3 times and make a decision.

 

Also, if the ref is unsure whether it’s a red/yellow card or penalty given/not given. VAR should make a decision independently (maybe before the ref makes a decision/ref waits or asks for VAR check). Higher likelihood of getting the correct call without the refs influence with their original call. IE, not wanting to overturn the on field decision. 
 

If it’s unclear, send the ref to the monitor immediately.

[Arriba Los Zorros]

On 26/05/2021 at 13:44, Unabomber said:

Chance would be a fine thing 

A fine thing indeed!

[RonnieTodger]

14 minutes ago, StanSP said:

Sorry but when you look at the elation of fans after Youri's screamer this is incorrect. The natural reaction to celebrate a goal is still always there. 

Immediately followed by them checking to see if there was a handball from Perez. In fairness, the Tielemans goal looked like it was an anomaly but even then there was a slight element of doubt about the build-up. Rarely, do you see a screamer like that get ruled out.

 

There have been times at which I haven't celebrated a goal, because I was convinced that they were offside and then it turns out that they were fine. I just don't think that it's worth the emotion that it takes out of football.

[davieG]

18 minutes ago, StanSP said:

if the rules are clarified so there's very little grey areas then the use of VAR

They keep trying but seem to make it greyer every time. They're also inclined to change it on the go when they get a few dissenting voices, then end up changing it back but with a slight tweak. The people in charge seem to be from the same stable that run the FA, UEFA and the PL. 

[StanSP]

17 minutes ago, davieG said:

They keep trying but seem to make it greyer every time. They're also inclined to change it on the go when they get a few dissenting voices, then end up changing it back but with a slight tweak. The people in charge seem to be from the same stable that run the FA, UEFA and the PL. 

That is a very frustrating thing, I agree. I think there were 2 or 3 rule changes mid-season because of handball instances. Not fair and also very confusing each time. 

[Brainy]

Chelsea scored an illegal goal in the last minute of the FA Cup final.. are we seriously saying we'd rather VAR wasn't around so that Chelsea fans could celebrate that even though it was offside? I really don't understand people's issues with it... When the ball goes in the net then celebrate, if it gets disallowed.. Just accept that it should never have stood in the first place. Peoples negative opinion of VAR is always based on when their side get shat on, and not when actually it does their team justice. 

 

These instances when VAR overturns a decision, for it to then get overturned later in the week (Balbuena vs West Ham) are completely unforgivable though 

[SemperEadem]

55 minutes ago, Walkers said:

Chelsea scored an illegal goal in the last minute of the FA Cup final.. are we seriously saying we'd rather VAR wasn't around so that Chelsea fans could celebrate that even though it was offside? I really don't understand people's issues with it... When the ball goes in the net then celebrate, if it gets disallowed.. Just accept that it should never have stood in the first place. Peoples negative opinion of VAR is always based on when their side get shat on, and not when actually it does their team justice. 

 

These instances when VAR overturns a decision, for it to then get overturned later in the week (Balbuena vs West Ham) are completely unforgivable though 

Fully know i’m in the minority on this but yes. Hate it with a passion, it has spoilt so much of the in game experience.

Football is worse off for it. The game should not be a perfect science.

Edited 2 June 2021 by SemperEadem

[filbertway]

42 minutes ago, Walkers said:

Chelsea scored an illegal goal in the last minute of the FA Cup final.. are we seriously saying we'd rather VAR wasn't around so that Chelsea fans could celebrate that even though it was offside? I really don't understand people's issues with it... When the ball goes in the net then celebrate, if it gets disallowed.. Just accept that it should never have stood in the first place. Peoples negative opinion of VAR is always based on when their side get shat on, and not when actually it does their team justice. 

 

These instances when VAR overturns a decision, for it to then get overturned later in the week (Balbuena vs West Ham) are completely unforgivable though 

Absolutely, if you're celebrating when a goal goes in these days you're either dumb or in denial.

 

It's an absolute killer that you can't enjoy the moment. It's so much more enjoyable watching games below the prem where the ref/lino are making the calls.

 

[Fox92]

1 minute ago, filbertway said:

Absolutely, if you're celebrating when a goal goes in these days you're either dumb or in denial.

 

It's an absolute killer that you can't enjoy the moment. It's so much more enjoyable watching games below the prem where the ref/lino are making the calls.

 

What, so a goal goes in and we should just stand there?

 

Not celebrating a goal will never happen. It's emotion. It's bad enough players score and don't know what to do half the time now. Mings scored that overhead kick at Old Trafford last season, he'll never do that again, and didn't even celebrate even though it counted (and that was when fans were in too).

[nabb7]

47 minutes ago, Walkers said:

Chelsea scored an illegal goal in the last minute of the FA Cup final.. are we seriously saying we'd rather VAR wasn't around so that Chelsea fans could celebrate that even though it was offside? I really don't understand people's issues with it... When the ball goes in the net then celebrate, if it gets disallowed.. Just accept that it should never have stood in the first place. Peoples negative opinion of VAR is always based on when their side get shat on, and not when actually it does their team justice. 

 

These instances when VAR overturns a decision, for it to then get overturned later in the week (Balbuena vs West Ham) are completely unforgivable though 

You can’t claim that people hate VAR ‘always based on their team being shat on’, while mentioning the FA cup call in the same breath? We’ve been huge beneficiaries of it, but I would be delighted if it was scrapped, on principle.

 

my argument will always be: yes refs got things wrong before, but we never spent as much time talking about that than we do talking about VAR.

[Gordon the Great]

39 minutes ago, SemperEadem said:

Fully know i’m in the minority on this but yes. Hate it with a passion, it has spoilt so much of the in game experience.

Football is worse of for it. The game should not be a perfect science.

Agreed, get rid of it it`s cr*p and sucking the life blood of immediate excitement from the game

[filbertway]

3 minutes ago, Fox92 said:

What, so a goal goes in and we should just stand there?

 

Not celebrating a goal will never happen. It's emotion. It's bad enough players score and don't know what to do half the time now. Mings scored that overhead kick at Old Trafford last season, he'll never do that again, and didn't even celebrate even though it counted (and that was when fans were in too).

Well you kinda go "yeaa..." but you can't exactly enjoy the moment can you...unless you're unaware that VAR exists, or in denial that there's a chance it could be ruled out for a multitude of reasons.

 

The game is too subjective and the past 2 seasons should show that we don't have the technology or clear enough definition of rules at the moment for VAR to improve the game.

[BenTheFox]

Video technology works brilliantly in some sports but not football. You could argue that it's because they've had years to refine it, but in reality it's because other sports have more natural stoppages and therefore lend themselves to it. Cricket being the perfect example. 

[davieG]

The other thing is the vast majority of these decisions are marginal to say the least so if we didn't have VAR and we didn't have the media showing 30+ different angles of them we'd never know any different as it used to be before all this technology intervened.

 

Sadly I know that's not going to happen.

[Super_horns]

We had the Newport manager asking it to  be used more though after the play off final on Monday ..

 

So they might have a different attitude towards it to fans but one thing is for certain the communication needs to be better and some of the rules changed .

 

 

[Sharpe's Fox]

The problem before VAR and the problem after VAR is the same, the referees arrogance and incredulousness that at any point they could be wrong. There is a culture that the referees have to club together to protect eacthother at all costs.

[orangecity23]

I prefer VAR to not having it, because the standard of refereeing in the top flight is so bloody awful that anything that gives a club like ours a chance of compeing properly is worth it, when the alterative is Chris Kavanagh or Craig Pawson ignoring blatant penalties and giving the big 6 a massive helping hand every time we play against them. Where VAR is a joke is normally related to the handball rule, which has always been a vague and poorly defined rule, and most of the complaining often stems from the tweaks that FIFA have made to it over the last few years, which haven't done anything to make it more consistent. The Harry Kane handball before the Bale goal was a prime example - ref allowed him to play on in case it lead to a goal, he holds it up, sets up a goal, then the goal is allowed because the handball was "too long" before the goal - if it was too long, why didn;t the ref stop play before he passed it to Bale then? This idea of "too long" is bollocks, if the guy is getting a bloody assist, then it clearly has lead to the goal.

 

The complaining about it in the media is what really grates though. All the pearl clutching and examples of "terrible mistakes" by VAR - what are they? Examples when Chelsea, Man United, Spurs, or one of the other cartel pricks have had a goal disallowed for offside - which isn't even a subjective call. "Ooh, Chilwell is only a bit offside, VAR's dreadful". Meanwhile, Bournemouth got relegated last season because someone forgot to turn on goalline tech in a Villa match and nobody in the media gives a flying fook. Which is the problem with the analysis of ref calls - Sky and friends only care about the big 6, which is why we get a million replays of Werner diving at Stamford Bridge with them making out like it's the biggest injustice of all time, or newspaper bods writing about our cup final win as a nice story, but oh, what a shame Chilwell's goal that was so offside the 2 lines werent even touching didn't stand, but when it's Diallo at Old Trafford or the horse faced England captain handballing blatantly in the build up to a key goal, your lucky if anyone even replays the thing once, let alone implies a mistake may have been made that favoured the money boys.

 

 

[filbertway]

19 minutes ago, Super_horns said:

We had the Newport manager asking it to  be used more though after the play off final on Monday ..

 

So they might have a different attitude towards it to fans but one thing is for certain the communication needs to be better and some of the rules changed .

Would that be the Newport manager who was on the wrong end of a bad decision?  

 

[Super_horns]

2 minutes ago, filbertway said:

Would that be the Newport manager who was on the wrong end of a bad decision?  

 

2 .

One was fairly clear cut though tbf.

 

But then that is the issue.

 

Do the clubs really hate VAR or just when it doesn’t go their way?

 

Sure it’s not good for the fans but then a lot of things in modern football aren’t and  do the powers that be care ?

[Brainy]

35 minutes ago, Fox92 said:

What, so a goal goes in and we should just stand there?

 

Not celebrating a goal will never happen. It's emotion. It's bad enough players score and don't know what to do half the time now. Mings scored that overhead kick at Old Trafford last season, he'll never do that again, and didn't even celebrate even though it counted (and that was when fans were in too).

 

No one is saying stand still until a screen tells you to celebrate. But if a goal that you so wildly celebrated is correctly disallowed, do you really have ground to complain? I still maintain people don't look at this from both sides, no way in a VAR-less world will people see us concede a goal that should have been disallowed, and think "ah nevermind, they've already celebrated, would be a shame to see them have to uncelebrate the moment". They'd be bemoaning the lack of technology in order to help reach the right decision. I think people have embarrassment issues. 

 

[Super_horns]

35 minutes ago, davieG said:

The other thing is the vast majority of these decisions are marginal to say the least so if we didn't have VAR and we didn't have the media showing 30+ different angles of them we'd never know any different as it used to be before all this technology intervened.

 

Sadly I know that's not going to happen.

Yes it’s the media who kicked all this off by showing endless tight decisions with loads of slow mo replays which the officials didn’t have.

 

Then some managers joined in .

 

Officials like players and managers are like humans - will make honest split second decisions that might be wrong.

 

Edited 2 June 2021 by Super_horns

[Sol thewall Bamba]

There will be issues with or without VAR. The only debate is whether you're happy to lose a massive proportion of the passion of the game or not. 

 

How anyone that goes to games can be for it I cannot fathom.