Group D: England, Croatia, Scotland, Czech Republic

[Nalis]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/57480270 - Euro 2020: Aaron Ramsdale replaces injured Dean Henderson in England squad

 

 

 

It's coming home....

 

 

[The Horse's Mouth]

3 hours ago, Ric Flair said:

Got 2 Championship keepers and one of the biggest laughing stocks in the PL in Pickford as our 3 keepers, really hope this isn't what costs us.

You can say what you want about Pickford for Everton but he's never put a foot wrong in an england shirt and deserves his spot 

[Duquesne Whistle]

I'm going to wade in on the coverage debate. 

I do think Scotland get preferential coverage, especially in terms of the lack of criticism at times. The 'brave defeat' tripe is the standard response to anything other than an absolute humping. 

 

I think the reason for that, is the over representation of Scots in the sporting media, Sky and the BBC. 

 

Clowns like the clueless Jim Whyte, who get the gig regardless. He's a pointless tosser and always was. Sky/BBC in particular, like to give those with a Scottish connection a voice.

I'm not saying there shouldn't be any Scots, but if you live in England, how many Scots do you actually know? (let's discount the Corby anomoly for the moment). 

If you watch sport, particularly on the broadcasters I've mentioned, you'll know of quite a few. Kirsty Gallagher, Kelly Dalglish, Andy Gray, Alan Brazil, Alan Hansen, Graeme Souness, Hazel Irvine  Jim Whyte, Andrew Cotter, Tony McLeod, Lee McKenzie, Darrell Curry, Jackie Stewart, Alex Hay, the list goes on and on and covers all sports. No way are Wales and N Ireland given that same representation or leeway in defeat. 

 

Both those broadcasters I've mentioned know England fans will watch their shows regardless. 

On the flip side, if there were no Scots presenting, there would be complaints from here, there and everywhere that they (the Scots) are not be treated fairly and are unrepresented. Its their MO, always has been. 

Apols if this upsets any Scots on here, just the way I see it. 

 

One thing that cannot be levelled at England is that they're given a easy ride when they perform shite. In my view, that's not the case with Scotland. 

[Nalis]

The problem is that if you are unashamedly biased you either come across as annoying or unintentionally funny. Someone like Brian Moore in rugby is unintentionally funny because of his blinded bias albeit he has become less biased over time. Those Scottish commentators were annoying.

 

To be fair to Scotland though, I absolutely cringe when a Northern Irish pundit / co commentator is on as they are so unprofessionally biased its ridiculous.

Edited 15 June 2021 by Nalis

[Blue ROI]

17 minutes ago, Duquesne Whistle said:

I'm going to wade in on the coverage debate. 

I do think Scotland get preferential coverage, especially in terms of the lack of criticism at times. The 'brave defeat' tripe is the standard response to anything other than an absolute humping. 

 

I think the reason for that, is the over representation of Scots in the sporting media, Sky and the BBC. 

 

Clowns like the clueless Jim Whyte, who get the gig regardless. He's a pointless tosser and always was. Sky/BBC in particular, like to give those with a Scottish connection a voice.

I'm not saying there shouldn't be any Scots, but if you live in England, how many Scots do you actually know? (let's discount the Corby anomoly for the moment). 

If you watch sport, particularly on the broadcasters I've mentioned, you'll know of quite a few. Kirsty Gallagher, Kelly Dalglish, Andy Gray, Alan Brazil, Alan Hansen, Graeme Souness, Hazel Irvine  Jim Whyte, Andrew Cotter, Tony McLeod, Lee McKenzie, Darrell Curry, Jackie Stewart, Alex Hay, the list goes on and on and covers all sports. No way are Wales and N Ireland given that same representation or leeway in defeat. 

 

Both those broadcasters I've mentioned know England fans will watch their shows regardless. 

On the flip side, if there were no Scots presenting, there would be complaints from here, there and everywhere that they (the Scots) are not be treated fairly and are unrepresented. Its their MO, always has been. 

Apols if this upsets any Scots on here, just the way I see it. 

 

One thing that cannot be levelled at England is that they're given a easy ride when they perform shite. In my view, that's not the case with Scotland. 

There was a lot more Scottish pundits up until the mid-00s.  The decline of the Scottish team and the lesser profile of the players in years gone by has had an impact. The Scotland players of the 80s like Sounness, Gray, Hansen, Strachan all has successful careers so they were top of the list to become pundits. Similar to ex-England players like Neville, Carragher, Shearer now.

 

Yesterday was the first time I watched what was essentially the BBC Scotland panel.They did go a bit overboard in their praise but after the first tournament game in over 2 decades you could overlook that.

 

I'd imagine the coverage the next 2 games could be a little more critical.

[ScotFox1]

As a Scotland fan, I'm not used to watching quality international football, and I daresay most members of the 'Tartan Army' attend these games in 'hope' rather than 'expectation'.  Indeed, on my international escapades following those in 'darkest blue' its really all about the travel and the sense of occasion, which more often than not, is spoiled by 90 minutes of so called football and despair.

Equally, I would say that the British press in all its glorious formats are all pretty much as bad as each other, which is why I don't consume their inane drivel.  You'll probably get more sense from self proclaimed YouTube influencers than 'wee' Ally McCoist or Chris Waddle and I'm astounded that anyone can take Sky / TalkSport / The Sun etc seriously, let alone get upset about it?  Just watch the game and enjoy it in all its glory for what it is, rather than what you are told it is!

Anyway, for what its worth, these day's I can't really be bothered with it all, and find myself being more interested in our players performance, rather than the countries they represent, although it was distressing to see Castagnes injury.

Club before country and all that!!

   

[Scotch]

The reason that the paneland commentators went so easy on Scotland yesterday isn't because they are biased. It's because that by our standards, we actually played pretty well yesterday. 

 

Folk on here like to bang on about how the Scottish team are shite (which isn't untrue) but still expect pundits to judge their level of performance the same as they do for England who are a much better team. 

 

And as far as some on here saying that we are cocky and expect way too much from our team? That's just nonsense. Barring that nob Craig Brown, not one fellow scot I know or have saw in the media gave us much more hope than a long shot chance of going through as a best placed 3rd....

[Blue ROI]

3 minutes ago, Foxy_Bear said:

The reason that the paneland commentators went so easy on Scotland yesterday isn't because they are biased. It's because that by our standards, we actually played pretty well yesterday. 

 

Folk on here like to bang on about how the Scottish team are shite (which isn't untrue) but still expect pundits to judge their level of performance the same as they do for England who are a much better team. 

 

And as far as some on here saying that we are cocky and expect way too much from our team? That's just nonsense. Barring that nob Craig Brown, not one fellow scot I know or have saw in the media gave us much more hope than a long shot chance of going through as a best placed 3rd....

Thats often overlooked.

 

Scotland is a much smaller country than England. They overachieved from the late 70s until the end of the 90s. Much of the focus on Scotland though would be on their record not making out of the group stage which is a shame. Its unfortunate that Scotland for all their cracking midfield talent didn't have a Shearer or Vardy up front in those times.

 

From a Republic of Ireland perspective our media is fairly consistent. Sometimes though the criticism can be extreme. The likes of Eamon Dunphy pulls no punches on the management. He even slated Ireland during Italia 90 for their style when reaching the quarter finals.

 

There's always a certain realism to proceedings but it's helped that we have made it out of the group stages 4 times out of 6.We don't have the doubt that affects Scotland. We know we won't be winning the thing and are happy to enjoy being there.

[ScrumpyJack]

Fun question for you FoxesTalk.

 

Which current England player has the most goal contributions (G+A) over the last 3 seasons?

 

Answers at 9:30, no Googlin or Askin Jeeves.

[Guest Col city fan]

1 minute ago, ScrumpyJack said:

Fun question for you FoxesTalk.

 

Which current England player has the most goal contributions (G+A) over the last 3 seasons?

 

Answers at 9:30, no Googlin or Askin Jeeves.

Sancho?

[ScrumpyJack]

48 minutes ago, Col city fan said:

Sancho?

Sorry to keep you waiting in sheer uncomfortable anticipation.

 

Sterling 110

Sancho 109

Kane 106

[Guest Col city fan]

40 minutes ago, ScrumpyJack said:

Sorry to keep you waiting in sheer uncomfortable anticipation.

 

Sterling 110

Sancho 109

Kane 106

Oooh close!

[Duquesne Whistle]

6 hours ago, Foxy_Bear said:

The reason that the paneland commentators went so easy on Scotland yesterday isn't because they are biased. It's because that by our standards, we actually played pretty well yesterday. 

 

Folk on here like to bang on about how the Scottish team are shite (which isn't untrue) but still expect pundits to judge their level of performance the same as they do for England who are a much better team. 

 

And as far as some on here saying that we are cocky and expect way too much from our team? That's just nonsense. Barring that nob Craig Brown, not one fellow scot I know or have saw in the media gave us much more hope than a long shot chance of going through as a best placed 3rd....

 

Honestly mate, I don't think anyone expects pundits to judge Scotland performances the same as they do England. My post above wasn't actually so much to do with the last match, it was on bbc Scotland, I'd expect them to be biased. It was more a general comment regarding what I see as an easy ride that Scotland often get. I genuinely think England and Wales are treated much more harshly and I do think that's mainly because of the amount (comparatively) of Scots in the media, especially sporting. Yes, England get a lot of coverage, a sickening amount for the other country's populations to put up with at times, but they also get mullered in the press.

 

Of course, you get clowns from every country when it comes to punditry. We have a much bigger country than you, so we have far more utter tosspots in the media. That's undeniable as far as I'm concerned. From the 'laddish' ridiculousness of Paul Merson, who can barely pronounce players surnames correctly, regardless of the country they're from, to people like Jenas, who seem to be watching a completely different game to the rest of us. We beat Scotland hands down in the pointless pundits league. Saying that, whilst there's always unnecessary hyperbole with England, there is usually an honesty (often brutal) attached to the criticism they receive post tournaments. I don't see the same for Scotland, the plucky line is simply rolled out again. 

 

On your last paragraph, I've not seen people saying that on here, I'm sure there are examples. For what it's worth, I certainly haven't seen any Scot expecting too much of your team. The handful of Scots lads I know are exactly the same as you, glad to be there and desperate for one win, any win, to give you a shot at 3rd and a knockout game. If there's people saying otherwise, I'm guessing they're probably on the wind up. Or they know Craig Brown!

 

 

 

6 hours ago, ScotFox1 said:

As a Scotland fan, I'm not used to watching quality international football, and I daresay most members of the 'Tartan Army' attend these games in 'hope' rather than 'expectation'.  Indeed, on my international escapades following those in 'darkest blue' its really all about the travel and the sense of occasion, which more often than not, is spoiled by 90 minutes of so called football and despair.

Equally, I would say that the British press in all its glorious formats are all pretty much as bad as each other, which is why I don't consume their inane drivel.  You'll probably get more sense from self proclaimed YouTube influencers than 'wee' Ally McCoist or Chris Waddle and I'm astounded that anyone can take Sky / TalkSport / The Sun etc seriously, let alone get upset about it?  Just watch the game and enjoy it in all its glory for what it is, rather than what you are told it is!

Anyway, for what its worth, these day's I can't really be bothered with it all, and find myself being more interested in our players performance, rather than the countries they represent, although it was distressing to see Castagnes injury.

Club before country and all that!!

   

I totally agree with this.

From the The Mail, to The Sun, to The Times to The BBC, to The Scotsman, to The Daily Record and on, Ad Infinitum.

[Scotch]

1 hour ago, Duquesne Whistle said:

 

Honestly mate, I don't think anyone expects pundits to judge Scotland performances the same as they do England. My post above wasn't actually so much to do with the last match, it was on bbc Scotland, I'd expect them to be biased. It was more a general comment regarding what I see as an easy ride that Scotland often get. I genuinely think England and Wales are treated much more harshly and I do think that's mainly because of the amount (comparatively) of Scots in the media, especially sporting. Yes, England get a lot of coverage, a sickening amount for the other country's populations to put up with at times, but they also get mullered in the press.

 

Of course, you get clowns from every country when it comes to punditry. We have a much bigger country than you, so we have far more utter tosspots in the media. That's undeniable as far as I'm concerned. From the 'laddish' ridiculousness of Paul Merson, who can barely pronounce players surnames correctly, regardless of the country they're from, to people like Jenas, who seem to be watching a completely different game to the rest of us. We beat Scotland hands down in the pointless pundits league. Saying that, whilst there's always unnecessary hyperbole with England, there is usually an honesty (often brutal) attached to the criticism they receive post tournaments. I don't see the same for Scotland, the plucky line is simply rolled out again. 

 

On your last paragraph, I've not seen people saying that on here, I'm sure there are examples. For what it's worth, I certainly haven't seen any Scot expecting too much of your team. The handful of Scots lads I know are exactly the same as you, glad to be there and desperate for one win, any win, to give you a shot at 3rd and a knockout game. If there's people saying otherwise, I'm guessing they're probably on the wind up. Or they know Craig Brown!

 

To be honest, I've been thinking about it and I can't really recall any time I recent years that the Scottish press has really went in on the national side. They don't really slate them at all to be fair (although, there has been times under the Vogts era or McLeish's 460 days).

 

When I've been reacting to folks comments on here, I've had in mind how we are spoken about by the English media which is very much a condescending "awk, they gave it a wee go" type of tone. That's what I've been reacting to as the easy going reaction to scotlands under performance by the English media is what I thought had irritated some folk. 

 

But, going back to my first paragraph, no. We don't criticise our lads. I don't know if it's a low expectation we've got of our national side or a small mentality. Maybe both but either way... I don't see it as a bad thing. Thinking about it  I'm kinda proud of it. 

Edited 15 June 2021 by Foxy_Bear

[Leicester_Loyal]

On 14/06/2021 at 16:13, Foxy_Bear said:

Initial disappointment wore off. 

 

Thought we had a decent enough go but simply not good enough. 

 

Just proud I got to watch my team at a major tournament and chuffed for the boys that they got to experience a good atmosphere before having to play at Wembly. 

I know a lot are laughing at this mate but just enjoy the next two games

[Vacamion]

 

On the subject of media criticism of the Scotland side, there is a lot of occasionally quite harsh criticism of the Scotland side up here, but maybe it doesn't percolate down there because the English based media (even if Scots are over-represented as presenters and pundits) don't mention it. 

 

Craig Levein playing a massively negative and unsuccessful 4-6-0 formation (that's right, no attackers) against the Czechs is an example which comes to mind. 

 

They went loopy up here about that, but I bet most in here weren't aware it happened.

 

 

[CosbehFox]

18 hours ago, Nalis said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/57480270 - Euro 2020: Aaron Ramsdale replaces injured Dean Henderson in England squad

 

 

 

It's coming home....

 

 

Dave Beasant at Italia 90 vibes 

[Duquesne Whistle]

8 hours ago, Foxy_Bear said:

To be honest, I've been thinking about it and I can't really recall any time I recent years that the Scottish press has really went in on the national side. They don't really slate them at all to be fair (although, there has been times under the Vogts era or McLeish's 460 days).

 

When I've been reacting to folks comments on here, I've had in mind how we are spoken about by the English media which is very much a condescending "awk, they gave it a wee go" type of tone. That's what I've been reacting to as the easy going reaction to scotlands under performance by the English media is what I thought had irritated some folk. 

 

But, going back to my first paragraph, no. We don't criticise our lads. I don't know if it's a low expectation we've got of our national side or a small mentality. Maybe both but either way... I don't see it as a bad thing. Thinking about it  I'm kinda proud of it. 

Looking at the last couple of posts, we seem to agree about most things.

As for reacting on here, it's easily done. I really enjoy your one man stand in this thread, fair play to you. You've shot a few things back at people, but you've been a one man band for the most part so nothing wrong with that. The easy thing to do would be to go on a Scotland fansite, but you've stuck this out, arguing your corner like a trooper  

 

FWIW, my posts were never about Scotland fans, just what I perceive as a bias in the media, the UK media, not Scotland's.

The highlighted section above is why Scottish fans (not media) are considered among the best in international football. That's an area we should learn from you. You should be proud of that fact. We're too quick to criticise our team.

 

Glad we didn't fall out over this btw 

[Scotch]

15 minutes ago, Duquesne Whistle said:

Looking at the last couple of posts, we seem to agree about most things.

As for reacting on here, it's easily done. I really enjoy your one man stand in this thread, fair play to you. You've shot a few things back at people, but you've been a one man band for the most part so nothing wrong with that. The easy thing to do would be to go on a Scotland fansite, but you've stuck this out, arguing your corner like a trooper  

 

FWIW, my posts were never about Scotland fans, just what I perceive as a bias in the media, the UK media, not Scotland's.

The highlighted section above is why Scottish fans (not media) are considered among the best in international football. That's an area we should learn from you. You should be proud of that fact. We're too quick to criticise our team.

 

Glad we didn't fall out over this btw 

You're FAR to reasonable. I'm starting to have serious doubts as to wether or not you are actually English.....

[Spudulike]

It doesn't help the image when the likes of BBC love to show footage of stereo-typical Scotland supporters in fan parks in full on cliche tartan army fancy dress shouting some drunken bollox about Engerland. It all plays in to the narrative that it's right and proper, even encouraged, that Scotland fans must abuse England (what a laugh, they are so originally funny) and that England fans must just smile and say how much they want all home nations to do well. 

 

Modern media are rubbish. 

[Scotch]

9 minutes ago, Spudulike said:

It doesn't help the image when the likes of BBC love to show footage of stereo-typical Scotland supporters in fan parks in full on cliche tartan army fancy dress shouting some drunken bollox about Engerland. It all plays in to the narrative that it's right and proper, even encouraged, that Scotland fans must abuse England (what a laugh, they are so originally funny) and that England fans must just smile and say how much they want all home nations to do well. 

 

Modern media are rubbish. 

Mate, you have to understand. We are not ashamed of that stereotypical, clichéd look of full tartan dress with the hat and face paint. We like it. 

At the end of the day, it's a far cry from the drunken, beer bellied lout throwing chairs around a fan zone in front of terrified locals stereotype that certain nations have. 

[ClaphamFox]

19 minutes ago, Foxy_Bear said:

Mate, you have to understand. We are not ashamed of that stereotypical, clichéd look of full tartan dress with the hat and face paint. We like it. 

At the end of the day, it's a far cry from the drunken, beer bellied lout throwing chairs around a fan zone in front of terrified locals stereotype that certain nations have. 

Indeed. And you could wander around most of England wearing that full regalia without anybody batting an eyelid. However if I were to stroll around Glasgow or Edinburgh in an England shirt I suspect it would be a very different story  

[Scotch]

8 minutes ago, ClaphamFox said:

Indeed. And you could wander around most of England wearing that full regalia without anybody batting an eyelid. However if I were to stroll around Glasgow or Edinburgh in an England shirt I suspect it would be a very different story  

Absolute nonsense. You do realise that there is a massive English following within one of Scotlands biggest football teams, right? I would say at LEAST half of Rangers' fan base follow England over Scotland.... 

 

I'm not saying you won't get the odd comment but let's not forget, I'm scottish and I've spent enough time in England to know that your claim about no one taking any notice is utter bollocks. My accent alone has been enough to get me some abuse in England.

[suffolk fox]

If you want a true reflection of the tartan army watch Rob Roy.

[ClaphamFox]

Just now, Foxy_Bear said:

Absolute nonsense. You do realise that there is a massive English following within one of Scotlands biggest football teams, right? I would say at LEAST half of Rangers' fan base follow England over Scotland.... 

 

I'm not saying you won't get the odd comment but let's not forget, I'm scottish and I've spent enough time in England to know that your claim about no one taking any notice is utter bollocks. My accent alone has been enough to get me some abuse in England.

Fair enough (and I'm truly sorry that some ignorant morons have abused you because of your accent in this country), but I think the general point that there is an asymmetry in the way the countries view each other still holds. I want England to beat Scotland on Friday, but I'd very much like it if Scotland beat Croatia and go through to the last 16. Likewise I wish Wales well today, as I would Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland if they were playing (especially the Republic for family reasons). On the other hand, virtually every Scottish, Welsh and Irish friend and acquaintance I've had over the years has absolutely wanted England to fail at international tournaments. I have one Scottish friend - a thoroughly amiable and decent chap - who is consumed by the most passionate desire for England to lose every time we play 

 

It's not hard to understand why - it's easier to be magnanimous when you are from the country that has traditionally been dominant rather than from one of the countries that has suffered at your hands. There isn't that history of resentment. But it's silly to pretend there isn't a major disparity between the way that English people generally regard the rest of the UK versus how they regard us.