Starting a business

[Mickyblueeyes]

I was thinking about this the other day. When I started my business, I had a 101 ideas and about a 1000 fears. It was the best decision I ever made. However, I have many lows alongside many highs and continually make balls ups which keep my week entertained. 

 

I thought it would be great to have a thread as a sort sounding board for people starting off on the journey and those further down the line. Obviously, no need to disclose the golden ideas!!

 

What's your biggest annoyance about running your own business. Mines, without doubt is the self doubt  - I still get it once in a while albeit not as often as when I first started. 

[David Hankey]

When the wife and I started back in 1992 we had just a lock-up shop. It was a general store with Post Office but the shop side had declined so we thought, with a lot of effort, it's fortunes could be turned around. In fact we had similar fears and feelings to you although the wife had come from a family of shopkeepers so this venture wasn't completely new. I do remember an old footballing pal who was a qualified accountant and someone I asked to look and the books and give advice stated "you'll be working long and hard for little reward" and that we shouldn't take it on. After ignoring his advice we were able to buy the property from our landlords 2 years later, extend the domestic portion of the property 5 years later and start a bed and breakfast business along side running the shop and Post Office.

 

Yes, we did, initially work long and hard for little reward but we wouldn't have had it any other way. Now retired, we certainly appreciate what we have and look back with great fondness of our time serving our local community and thinking, yes, we would do it all again.

 

As for our "biggest annoyance", certain customers who expected you to do more than bend over backwards but do somersaults and many other amazing tricks.

 

I hope the future works out just as well for you.

 

Edited 28 June 2021 by David Hankey

[davieG]

Many years ago MrsG and I took over a hardware and gift shop and gave it up after couple of years.

 

There were too many tight arsed people, like the person that asked if he could just have 10 tacks from a 20p box of 30 tacks, or the woman that came in asked if she could have a portion of some sealant squeezed out of 50p tube. Then there were the kids stealing the toys and sweets.

 

Then it was cheaper for us to buy our paint to resale from Wilkinsons than from the wholesaler. So we used to end up taking orders and I'd pick it up on the way home form my day job as I was still working.

 

Then we had the VAT inspector who spent over 4 hours with us combing through every aspect of the business. Even told us we should be charging VAT on the rabbit food we sold to kids for less than 10p in a small paper bag. When I queried this she said I had to ask the kids whether they were pets or for breeding and eating FFS

 

We sold our house to finance to it just after which house prices rocketed and we ended up in a cheaper house after we sold it.

 

To top it off we turned over just enough to take us above the VAT threshold so ended up making a loss. On reflection we should have lied.

 

All in all a nightmare.

 

Maybe we were to naïve, or it was just a bad business.

 

Good luck to anyone thinking of giving it a go I hope I haven't put anyone off.

[doverfox]

The only advice i can give that do it on your own unless you cant do it with out a partner.  I would never have a partnership with another person i would rather be an under paid employee that the partner that does all the work, its a fast way to lose family and friends.

[Izzy]

I started my own business in 2008 (Ltd Company but just me). Think I've been through every emotion possible during the last 13 years and nearly went bankrupt in 2010 following a bad investment. On the verge of losing the house and everything with a new born kid was a scary prospect let me tell ya.

 

I still occasionally suffer from 'imposter syndrome' but deal with it better now than I used to. My biggest annoyance is clients taking the piss by not valuing my time. I've learned over the years to be clear on cancellation policies so if they back out last minute - they're still fvckin paying! And I've got a lot slicker at getting PO's early and being paid before doing the work where possible. Large corporations take the piss with 90 day terms but most others pay within 30 days of the invoice being raised.

 

All about the cash flow...

 

[SkidsFox]

May seem strange and heartless to say this, but good to hear that others have struggled - it can sometimes feel as though you are the only one. 

Quote

There were too many tight arsed people, like the person that asked if he could just have 10 tacks from a 20p box of 30 tacks, or the woman that came in asked if she could have a portion of some sealant squeezed out of 50p tube. Then there were the kids stealing the toys and sweets.

We've been lucky in that we don't get many thieves, but plenty of time-wasters (come in for a chat, waste time etc) and penny-pinchers. On the other hand we've met some really nice customers. But, no matter how low your prices are, you always get people moaning at those prices (and in many cases they're blokes who bought a house from many years back and made a packet and/or with second pensions).

At the moment I can't say whether our business is about to sink or really succeed (it's a book and gift shop). We thought we'd hit upon a great income stream a few years back, when we started a "run a bookshop" experience on Airbnb. After a slow start we became very popular with visitors from around the world - we had guests from China, India, Australia, Russia, the US, Europe as well as Brits. It helped that we are based in London, which is a huge tourist destination across the globe. Then Covid turned up and all our revenue disappeared overnight. It was only the business grants and furlough subsidies that kept us going - we were better off than others who had only just started their business as they didn't qualify for the grant. I suppose a lot of businesses in the hospitality sector have been hit hard, although it does look like local restaurants and takeaways are doing ok this summer. We also had a lot of local support via crowdfunding and patronage when we re-opened.

Biggest non-monetary annoyance are the cold callers - when they pass by in person it's not too bad as they soon realise they're not going to get a sale. But the call centre cold callers never give up pretending to be our existing energy supplier or selling phone/net deals. I have to disconnect the phone for a few hours sometimes to get some peace.

Not really for me to give advice, as we've not really made it, but Malcolm X nailed it in his autobiography. If your business isn't doing well, make sure to make time and visit competitors in your field, so see how they are getting things right (or wrong).

There's an old quote on how people who "like people" soon change their tune when they run a pub. And yet generally, at least pubs know that when people come in the door they are looking to buy at least one drink (I know even here that is not always the case). That can be hard in retail - having to deal with the time-wasters who have no intention of spending a penny. I know someone who worked in a record store, and the time-wasters did his head in.

As already mentioned, once you start a business, you no longer have much free time. Even if you close one or two days a week, you will still be investigating stuff, paying bills, thinking of the next marketing campaign, etc etc. But on the other hand, no annoying supervisor is going to complain if you post on Foxestalk during a quiet spell!

 

 

[Mickyblueeyes]

That is such a good point about not having any time. I'm a bit better at it now then I use to be but I'll work every holiday and find time to be dad/husband which I was useless at before. My wife whose quite successful in her own field always says that even though I am working most weekends and on holiday, I am far happier and motivated then when it was 9-5 etc. 

 

Also a great point on cashflow - having a great product is fantastic but if you're shit at billing when the time comes, you'll always be chasing your own tail. That takes some work if you're not selling in a retail sense. 

 

I think for anyone starting off its also good to hear the mistakes/ventures that didnt go to plan. It happens and a lot more then many think. My initial business plan to what my business is now is two different things. Changes happen. I always remember one of my old clients, a really successful business person who told me that there are more mistakes and sadness in this. He tried about four times before he got it right and even then it wasnt an easy ride. 

 

I wouldnt have it any other way. I just cannot work for someone now and have the same motivation and drive that I have for my own business. Yeah at times you feel like running before you can walk but its that drive that keeps me getting up etc. every morning. I think I would struggle with that otherwise. The great thing about doing it on your own, is you can to some extent implement ideas. Those ideas sometimes fall flat on their face. However, when they work, the feeling is awesome.  

[Izzy]

6 minutes ago, Mickyblueeyes said:

That is such a good point about not having any time. I'm a bit better at it now then I use to be but I'll work every holiday and find time to be dad/husband which I was useless at before. My wife whose quite successful in her own field always says that even though I am working most weekends and on holiday, I am far happier and motivated then when it was 9-5 etc. 

 

Also a great point on cashflow - having a great product is fantastic but if you're shit at billing when the time comes, you'll always be chasing your own tail. That takes some work if you're not selling in a retail sense. 

 

I think for anyone starting off its also good to hear the mistakes/ventures that didnt go to plan. It happens and a lot more then many think. My initial business plan to what my business is now is two different things. Changes happen. I always remember one of my old clients, a really successful business person who told me that there are more mistakes and sadness in this. He tried about four times before he got it right and even then it wasnt an easy ride. 

 

I wouldnt have it any other way. I just cannot work for someone now and have the same motivation and drive that I have for my own business. Yeah at times you feel like running before you can walk but its that drive that keeps me getting up etc. every morning. I think I would struggle with that otherwise. The great thing about doing it on your own, is you can to some extent implement ideas. Those ideas sometimes fall flat on their face. However, when they work, the feeling is awesome.  

Learning from mistakes is all part of the process I think (as is being comfortable with uncertainty). The world is littered with examples of business owners who 'failed' numerous times before making it a success (I prefer the term 'experiment' rather than fail!)

 

The issue about time (or lack of) is really important. Although I kid myself that I've got a decent work/life balance, the truth is I'm probably working/thinking about work a lot more than I account for. But I'm O.K. with that now because I enjoy what I do and therefore it often doesn't feel like work - if that makes sense?

 

I spent 20 years in corporate life before setting up on my own and most of my clients are now corporate businesses. I'd say (conservatively) that 75% of the corporate people I interact with day in day out don't like their jobs and want to leave. Most of them are 'trapped' and tied in with the carrot of bonuses, share options and long term incentive plans. Most of them don't get on with their bosses and are expected to work all hours god sends (presenteeism) and are stressed/on the verge of burn out.

 

You couldn't pay me enough to return to a 'normal' corporate job now. There's no way I could take orders/instruction from someone else and you can't put a price on the freedom of running your own business IMHO. 

 

[doverfox]

Why do people think they can haggle with a one man band and not in Tesco.

 

[murphy]

1 hour ago, Izzy said:

Learning from mistakes is all part of the process I think (as is being comfortable with uncertainty). The world is littered with examples of business owners who 'failed' numerous times before making it a success (I prefer the term 'experiment' rather than fail!)

 

The issue about time (or lack of) is really important. Although I kid myself that I've got a decent work/life balance, the truth is I'm probably working/thinking about work a lot more than I account for. But I'm O.K. with that now because I enjoy what I do and therefore it often doesn't feel like work - if that makes sense?

 

I spent 20 years in corporate life before setting up on my own and most of my clients are now corporate businesses. I'd say (conservatively) that 75% of the corporate people I interact with day in day out don't like their jobs and want to leave. Most of them are 'trapped' and tied in with the carrot of bonuses, share options and long term incentive plans. Most of them don't get on with their bosses and are expected to work all hours god sends (presenteeism) and are stressed/on the verge of burn out.

 

You couldn't pay me enough to return to a 'normal' corporate job now. There's no way I could take orders/instruction from someone else and you can't put a price on the freedom of running your own business IMHO. 

 

I buy and sell antiques, I learned on the job and if I make a mistake it will likely cost me money.  I prefer to think of it as paying for my education.

 

 

[The People's Hero]

Have conviction and belief and be the absolute best at what you do. Be good to people but be firm; don't be fooled in to accepting 'compromise' when actually its you doing all the giving. Stay true to yourself and your values. Write yourself a mission and vision plan even if you don't intend to publish them, since you can then more easily stay focussed on what you're all about and what you're trying to achieve. Having said all that; part of the joy of being s/e and being 'small' is the ability to be nimble and to react to opportunity. Forget corporate inertia and embrace the glorious/terrifying fascination that its all on your head and you're free to make your own great decisions/stupid mistakes. Own them all though!

 

Best of luck.

[ozleicester]

[Bayfox]

I effectively took over the family business having brought the shares from my grandpa, my step dad and his business partner. They had been successfully trading for 20 years.

 

10 years later it folded over cash flow and bad debtors, there was no succession plan looking back. I was nieve, when I say this. I thought I could just carry on because we had a solid repeat customer base, but because I'd never been part of the face of the company and didn't have those personal relationships as soon as my step dad and partner left I found it hard to bond with those people. We lost that personal touch as such. Not through quality or cost we lost a few regular customers because they didn't know me.

 

I'd started on the shop floor and worked up to foreman but always been hands on in terms of manufacture, I had no idea about running a business, vat, dealing with my accountant, cash flow etc really drove me mad.

 

I've just spent 2 year or so labouring for a mate which was hard but at least I still had the freedoms I was afforded when working for the family and then myself.

 

I started a new job 6 weeks ago. As an employee back on a shop floor. Manufacturing and dealing with delivery's and up and down the country installing our products. Long hours, regular short notice changes to the week ahead.

 

I've never been happier. Well not for about 12 years anyway.

 

So I admire anyone who can come up with an idea, find a gap in the market or set up in competition with some one else. I think it takes a certain type person to cope with these things.

[Oxfordfox83]

I set up a wine shop with my business partner nearly three years ago. We both put basically every penny we had into it, but had a pretty good idea it would work (having both worked for a Majestic in the area that was shutting for redevelopment). It’s been brilliant, I think partly through choice of location, and partly that we’ve done a reasonable job of sourcing things that people want to buy.

 

I totally understand the preference expressed above for going alone, but for my part I’d advocate sharing the management if you find someone you can trust. We are open 7 days a week, so if you are the sole boss you never stop.   My business partner is similar enough to me that we get on, but different enough that our strengths work well combined. Having someone to approach things from a totally different standpoint can be really valuable.

 

A second shop is imminent, and I’m loving the responsibility and freedom of the way I work.

[jonthefox]

On 28/06/2021 at 17:38, doverfox said:

Why do people think they can haggle with a one man band and not in Tesco.

 

My mum does. Everywhere she goes to be honest. 

[Strokes]

This is my second attempt at running a business after the first one ran into difficulties in 2008-9 and I had to close it.

I spent the best part of a decade blaming all sorts of things for the failures before acknowledging my own shortcomings. With that in mind I tried again, October 2019, 6 months before the pandemic and like the OP I’ve definitely had a bumpy ride but it seems to be going ok.

The hardest thing is putting a value on your time, people see a quote from a tradesman and think £300 for a days Labour is astronomical but they aren’t taking into consideration the time to quote/survey, source the equipment, insurances, transportation, costs of quoting for jobs that never got off the ground, tooling, fuel etc. I can only physically do four days productive working because I need two for admin and organising. 
It’s a difficult business to establish in, and I’m still quite a way, away from being established but having survived the last 18 months, I’m really confident I can ride out anything.

[Nick]

1 hour ago, Strokes said:

This is my second attempt at running a business after the first one ran into difficulties in 2008-9 and I had to close it.

I spent the best part of a decade blaming all sorts of things for the failures before acknowledging my own shortcomings. With that in mind I tried again, October 2019, 6 months before the pandemic and like the OP I’ve definitely had a bumpy ride but it seems to be going ok.

The hardest thing is putting a value on your time, people see a quote from a tradesman and think £300 for a days Labour is astronomical but they aren’t taking into consideration the time to quote/survey, source the equipment, insurances, transportation, costs of quoting for jobs that never got off the ground, tooling, fuel etc. I can only physically do four days productive working because I need two for admin and organising. 
It’s a difficult business to establish in, and I’m still quite a way, away from being established but having survived the last 18 months, I’m really confident I can ride out anything.

[pSinatra]

I gave up self-employment about 2 years ago. I had my own gardening business. I am now employed & a grounds maintenance manager for a town council in North Notts. 

 

I may be a decent gardener but I'm an awful businessman. Too many favours for little old ladies, saying yes to jobs when my brain is screaming 'no fvcking way'

 

Money was never an issue but personal/family time was virtually non-existant. I would warn against getting too wrapped up in work (not easy) & making sure you make time for the things that are truly important...... for yourself & for those around you.

 

My money since leaving self employment has dropped off a cliff, but I'm far happier for it.

 

I would also suggest getting a decent accountant. Not always easy affording such things when starting out. I inotially thought I could do my own accounts. Bollocks to that. I got a recommendation from a friend for an accountant. Best money I ever spent. They pay for themselves & some. They saved me more money than they ever cost me.

[Mickyblueeyes]

2 hours ago, Strokes said:

This is my second attempt at running a business after the first one ran into difficulties in 2008-9 and I had to close it.

I spent the best part of a decade blaming all sorts of things for the failures before acknowledging my own shortcomings. With that in mind I tried again, October 2019, 6 months before the pandemic and like the OP I’ve definitely had a bumpy ride but it seems to be going ok.

The hardest thing is putting a value on your time, people see a quote from a tradesman and think £300 for a days Labour is astronomical but they aren’t taking into consideration the time to quote/survey, source the equipment, insurances, transportation, costs of quoting for jobs that never got off the ground, tooling, fuel etc. I can only physically do four days productive working because I need two for admin and organising. 
It’s a difficult business to establish in, and I’m still quite a way, away from being established but having survived the last 18 months, I’m really confident I can ride out anything.

By far the best advice I have ever got was when you start/run a business, that's all you should do to really scale it up. The moment you start making some profit hire someone to actually do the "product". Its easier said then done but the problem new business owners have is they usually go it alone because they are good/experts in a certain field. They are good in that field because in employment, from the start of the day until the end, its the majority of what they do. Once they open the business, you quickly realise its makes up 20% of your day (if you're lucky). 

 

I was in a fortunate position in that I literally married superwoman. My wife took over running the business as I continued doing what I was good at to attract and maintain the clientele. The moment we were in a good position, I hired other experts in the field and took a back seat on doing the "product". Its like you say, if you can ride out the choppy waters at the start, its a far easier and enjoyable ride after. Like I said, its easier said then done. 

[Wakeyfox]

42 minutes ago, pSinatra said:

I gave up self-employment about 2 years ago. I had my own gardening business. I am now employed & a grounds maintenance manager for a town council in North Notts. 

 

I may be a decent gardener but I'm an awful businessman. Too many favours for little old ladies, saying yes to jobs when my brain is screaming 'no fvcking way'

 

Money was never an issue but personal/family time was virtually non-existant. I would warn against getting too wrapped up in work (not easy) & making sure you make time for the things that are truly important...... for yourself & for those around you.

 

My money since leaving self employment has dropped off a cliff, but I'm far happier for it.

 

I would also suggest getting a decent accountant. Not always easy affording such things when starting out. I inotially thought I could do my own accounts. Bollocks to that. I got a recommendation from a friend for an accountant. Best money I ever spent. They pay for themselves & some. They saved me more money than they ever cost me.

This is often overlooked when starting a business, but I cannot stress enough from personal experience that a decent accountant will save you far more than they charge. The amount of tax savings and advice I get from my accountant is worth it's weight in gold. 

 

As the saying goes, if you think hiring professionals is expensive, try hiring amateurs.. 

 

 

By the way, I'm not an accountant. 

Edited 6 July 2021 by Wakeyfox
Clarification of my position

[Izzy]

16 minutes ago, Mickyblueeyes said:

By far the best advice I have ever got was when you start/run a business, that's all you should do to really scale it up. The moment you start making some profit hire someone to actually do the "product". Its easier said then done but the problem new business owners have is they usually go it alone because they are good/experts in a certain field. They are good in that field because in employment, from the start of the day until the end, its the majority of what they do. Once they open the business, you quickly realise its makes up 20% of your day (if you're lucky). 

 

I was in a fortunate position in that I literally married superwoman. My wife took over running the business as I continued doing what I was good at to attract and maintain the clientele. The moment we were in a good position, I hired other experts in the field and took a back seat on doing the "product". Its like you say, if you can ride out the choppy waters at the start, its a far easier and enjoyable ride after. Like I said, its easier said then done. 

There's a definition that a truly successful business is one which is profitable, sustainable, efficient, and works - without you.

 

I've known many business owners who could have quite easily employed a GM and then sat on the beach, but their addiction stopped them from letting go. When it's your baby and something you've created from scratch, it's very difficult to then trust someone else to run it for you I guess.

 

I suppose the ultimate is to create something where you make money while you sleep. Although I'm self employed, I do a lot of work as an associate for a training/consultancy company. The chap who owns it has spent years creating his unique IP/training material and has written a few books too. He's at the stage now where if I and other associates 'sell' his products/IP and then deliver/train them, he gets a cut every time.

 

Fair play to him and others who scale their business/franchise it out etc. I say.

[Strokes]

16 minutes ago, Mickyblueeyes said:

By far the best advice I have ever got was when you start/run a business, that's all you should do to really scale it up. The moment you start making some profit hire someone to actually do the "product". Its easier said then done but the problem new business owners have is they usually go it alone because they are good/experts in a certain field. They are good in that field because in employment, from the start of the day until the end, its the majority of what they do. Once they open the business, you quickly realise its makes up 20% of your day (if you're lucky). 

 

I was in a fortunate position in that I literally married superwoman. My wife took over running the business as I continued doing what I was good at to attract and maintain the clientele. The moment we were in a good position, I hired other experts in the field and took a back seat on doing the "product". Its like you say, if you can ride out the choppy waters at the start, its a far easier and enjoyable ride after. Like I said, its easier said then done. 

I think I’ll be more inclined to get people to do the installation and for myself to do the sales and product research. Even if it’s the installation I prefer. It’s far easier to get people trained up to an acceptable standard and maintain control that way.

I’d be frightened if someone was in charge of the stuff that’s not natural to me I’d become over reliant on them and then subsequently vulnerable.

I’ve got an installation guy I use for the bigger projects and I charge him out at more than I pay him but at the moment he still needs me there onsite to solve any problems that come up. Hopefully he will soon be at a stage where I can trust him to do the job on his own and I’ll get him someone to help him.

Then I can concentrate on development and ramp things up.

The trouble is he is a subcontractor and I’m not filling his diary at the minute and if he gets a big job elsewhere I’m back to square one. 
I’m not going to lose any sleep over it though, it’s not like I’m trying to take over the world. I’d just like to earn enough so I can invest a bit of money and create a passive income. I don’t have a pension and I’m approaching my 40s I need to make money work for me.

[Christoph]

As someone who works in commercial property my advice for those looking for a property.

 

The industrial market is absolutely booming right now so there is so little stock. If you're looking for anything below 3000 sq ft then realise about 80% of everyone else looking for industrial units is looking for the same size. Means you have tons of people all making offers on unit. My advice is if you find a unit you want offer 6 months deposit or show evidence (at least 2-3 years) of GOOD accounts. You can't expect a landlord to be jumping at the chance to let out his industrial unit to a one man band with no accounts. If you're dealing with Cars/Motortrade then most landlords wont even look at you (bring too many cars to a site, oil spills etc) so if you're desperate...be willing to offer 9 month deposit. I can tell you that if you're just a little garage  then its goign to be very hard.

 

If you're going to take on a place....get a solicitor to go through the lease. It's worth the money and so many tenants in small shops never do it then moan when they find out they're responsible for the roof etc. 

 

Office market and High Street retail is shit...you can probably negotiate decent deals at the moment.  Shops outside of city centres e.g. Birstall, Narborough road etc are still in good demand though. 

 

I work for Andrew and Ashwell and we're the oldest most established commercial property company in the city. If anyone is looking for any places let me know. If there are any commercial property owners looking to sell/rent their units out do get in touch. We also manage properties and do professional work e.g. negotiate lease renewals etc. 

 

[SkidsFox]

On 06/07/2021 at 16:31, Christoph said:

...

 

Office market and High Street retail is shit...you can probably negotiate decent deals at the moment.  Shops outside of city centres e.g. Birstall, Narborough road etc are still in good demand though. 

 

I work for Andrew and Ashwell and we're the oldest most established commercial property company in the city. If anyone is looking for any places let me know. If there are any commercial property owners looking to sell/rent their units out do get in touch. We also manage properties and do professional work e.g. negotiate lease renewals etc. 

 

If you are taking out a shop rental, don't be afraid to ask for a rent-free introductory period (as you will still need to pay the deposit up front). They may say no, but worth asking. Also, nearly always better to get a place with good footfall even if the rent is quite a bit higher. 

 

 

[RumbleFox]

Started my wee antique/vintage shop about 2 years ago. Obviously been a hard time with covid, etc. but still

managing to just about stay afloat and love going to work every day. Dreading having to get a real job if it ever goes under. X