UK to bake in 33C amid extreme heat warning

[yorkie1999]

9 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

Interesting discussion over the last couple of pages.

 

I'd like to add a couple of points in turn. I've stated them before but seeing as it's cropped up again I'm going to get everything in one post.

 

1. Firstly, and most importantly, it is a matter of scientific fact backed by the most exacting empirical evidence acquired over decades that human activity is resulting in an increase of atmospheric carbon dioxide and a resultant increase in global average temperature. These are facts, they are the same as the world being round. I'm not actually seeing much in the way of dispute of those facts right here and now, but just for the sake of 100% certainty on the matter and to perhaps forestall subsequent questions regarding it. The consequences of this increase are a it less certain, but in all likelihood it will include larger and more widespread incidences of drought, flooding and extreme storms, with all the damage to human infrastructure those entail.

 

2. While the press have seized on spurious "predictions" about these consequences that have then not come to fruition, that doesn't change anything about the scientific facts as they are. There is definitely an issue with how science is communicated, as well as how the media sensationalises such things for the purposes of selling itself. These do need to be overcome so that more people can be better informed to make a more informed decision about the whole thing, but if people do choose to remain skeptical right up to the bad things happening, then they bear a heavy share of the responsibility for it too. Effective science communication only goes so far - at some point people actually have to show a little trust.

 

3. It may be that "bigger" players on the world stage are not doing enough to address this threat themselves. However, that is no justification whatsoever for the UK choosing to join them and engage into a mutual race to the bottom and I've no idea why anyone outside of a totally committed nihilist would; because at the end of that road lies at best a billion people all seeking food, water and shelter with all the conflict that would entail, and at worst the actual downfall of civilisation. Why choose that pathway when there's at least something of a chance on the other, costly as it might be? Which brings me to...

 

4. "Net zero" is something both the UK and the world should be working towards regardless of cost. The reason for this is simple: as much as making those adjustments now will cost economically, not making them and therefore bearing the consequences listed above will cost much, much more. Perhaps even everything. The calculus is reasonably straightforward and therefore the decision really should be obvious.

 

If anyone has any specific questions about all of this, feel free to ask.

How can China and the US be forced to recognise that they produce nearly half of the worlds co2 pollution and to do something about. If they're not willing to play ball, and at the moment they don't seem the slightest bit interested as they are both increasing coal and other fossil fuel usage, we're all fvcked and it doesn't matter what more we do in the UK (1% from what was the largest industrial country on the planet at one time) and how much people like yourself explain what everyone knows, it's not going to make one iota of difference. 

[ARM1968]

Just now, Line-X said:

Really? Where are you? 

West Wales

[bovril]

I honestly love this. I was born too late. My calling was as a bureaucrat in some far off colony sitting under a rickety ceiling fan writing a book in my spare time on "the Arab". 

[StanSP]

14 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

 

ItS nEvEr GoInG tO gO uP tEn DeGrReEs

iTs nOt eXtReMe

[EnderbyFox]

Just another summer innit 

 

 

[Dunge]

6 minutes ago, yorkie1999 said:

How can China and the US be forced to recognise that they produce nearly half of the worlds co2 pollution and to do something about. If they're not willing to play ball, and at the moment they don't seem the slightest bit interested as they are both increasing coal and other fossil fuel usage, we're all fvcked and it doesn't matter what more we do in the UK (1% from what was the largest industrial country on the planet at one time) and how much people like yourself explain what everyone knows, it's not going to make one iota of difference. 

By developing energy sources that are too cheap and convenient for them to ignore.

[leicsmac]

10 minutes ago, yorkie1999 said:

How can China and the US be forced to recognise that they produce nearly half of the worlds co2 pollution and to do something about. If they're not willing to play ball, and at the moment they don't seem the slightest bit interested as they are both increasing coal and other fossil fuel usage, we're all fvcked and it doesn't matter what more we do in the UK (1% from what was the largest industrial country on the planet at one time) and how much people like yourself explain what everyone knows, it's not going to make one iota of difference. 

 

2 minutes ago, Dunge said:

By developing energy sources that are too cheap and convenient for them to ignore.

Well, this.

 

Or the alternative is simply giving into the edgy nihilist, folding our hands and condemning the future. If that's anyone's idea of a morally acceptable time, then fair play, but it sure as hell isn't mine. Keep doing what we can until we cannot, IMO.

[StanSP]

Just seen forecast later tonight. Drops to 27c and rain/thunderstorms. Think I might pop outside then

 

[yorkie1999]

5 minutes ago, Dunge said:

By developing energy sources that are too cheap and convenient for them to ignore.

China isn’t a backwards country, if it were feasible to develop a cheap energy source, they would be doing it, but they’re not, they’re increasing the amount of coal fired power stations, and you don’t do that for the short term do you.

[yorkie1999]

4 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

 

Well, this.

 

Or the alternative is simply giving into the edgy nihilist, folding our hands and condemning the future. If that's anyone's idea of a morally acceptable time, then fair play, but it sure as hell isn't mine. Keep doing what we can until we cannot, IMO.

And what precisely have you done.

[leicsmac]

1 minute ago, yorkie1999 said:

And what precisely have you done.

Informed people on the facts of the situation so that they might help with the choices that need be made, voted where I can, lobbied where I can too. As much as one person without much social or political power can do.

 

Hopefully worth more utility in the long run than simply saying that we're all screwed and choosing not to help at all as a result.

[Dunge]

Just now, yorkie1999 said:

China isn’t a backwards country, if it were feasible to develop a cheap energy source, they would be doing it, but they’re not, they’re increasing the amount of coal fired power stations, and you don’t do that for the short term do you.

They’re not exactly a country that’s making technological leaps forward though, are they? You’re assuming that they’re doing something that isn’t a big mistake. Take their Covid policy: big mistake. They’re stuck in lockdowns. And building more fossil fuel power stations is also a mistake - and not even because green energy is getting cheaper.

 

Fossil fuels are getting more difficult to extract. They’re getting scarcer. The amount of energy needed to reach the remaining deposits is getting less and less efficient compared to the amount of energy these deposits provide. Even the Russians know this, and they’re sh!tting themselves - it’s a rumoured reason why Putin’s invaded Ukraine, because he knows the oil market will crash over the next two decades and Russia will need something else to hold over the world.

 

Because eventually, economics takes over. That what capitalism shows, for good or for bad. And economics will be increasingly on the side of green energy. The question is how soon and who takes advantage by being the first, particularly with nuclear fusion.

[yorkie1999]

1 minute ago, leicsmac said:

Informed people on the facts of the situation so that they might help with the choices that need be made, voted where I can, lobbied where I can too. As much as one person without much social or political power can do.

 

Hopefully worth more utility in the long run than simply saying that we're all screwed and choosing not to help at all as a result.

We are screwed as long as china and the us don't play ball.

[yorkie1999]

Just now, Dunge said:

They’re not exactly a country that’s making technological leaps forward though, are they? You’re assuming that they’re doing something that isn’t a big mistake. Take their Covid policy: big mistake. They’re stuck in lockdowns. And building more fossil fuel power stations is also a mistake - and not even because green energy is getting cheaper.

 

Fossil fuels are getting more difficult to extract. They’re getting scarcer. The amount of energy needed to reach the remaining deposits is getting less and less efficient compared to the amount of energy these deposits provide. Even the Russians know this, and they’re sh!tting themselves - it’s a rumoured reason why Putin’s invaded Ukraine, because he knows the oil market will crash over the next two decades and Russia will need something else to hold over the world.

 

Because eventually, economics takes over. That what capitalism shows, for good or for bad. And economics will be increasingly on the side of green energy. The question is how soon and who takes advantage by being the first, particularly with nuclear fusion.

?? there's 200 years of coal underneath Leicestershire alone. It's not getting scarcer. We've, the UK, have just stopped using it.

[Dunge]

Just now, yorkie1999 said:

?? there's 200 years of coal underneath Leicestershire alone. It's not getting scarcer. We've, the UK, have just stopped using it.

Because it got increasingly uneconomic to extract it.

[Foxdiamond]

20 minutes ago, EnderbyFox said:

Just another summer innit 

 

 

Houses there now on fire. Essex. 

[urban.spaceman]

This thread has rather ironically gone hot

[Dunge]

What exactly is your plan in all this anyway, @yorkie1999?

Why are you so against this?

[reporterpenguin]

Market Bosworth park (official Met station) has hit 38°C

[Dunge]

1 minute ago, urban.spaceman said:

This thread has rather ironically gone hot

I’ve just increased my rank to Star Striker apparently, so worth it. 

[AKCJ]

40 degrees in the UK is ****ing mental. I've only experienced heat like this in Turkey where I was able to spend the time when it was this hot either in Air Conditioned rooms or in a swimming pool.

 

Currently working from home and it's unbearable.

[grobyfox1990]

35 minutes ago, yorkie1999 said:

How can China and the US be forced to recognise that they produce nearly half of the worlds co2 pollution and to do something about. If they're not willing to play ball, and at the moment they don't seem the slightest bit interested as they are both increasing coal and other fossil fuel usage, we're all fvcked and it doesn't matter what more we do in the UK (1% from what was the largest industrial country on the planet at one time) and how much people like yourself explain what everyone knows, it's not going to make one iota of difference. 

The US are a crackpot and pursuing zero-covid/aligning with Russia will, IMO, weaken China on the world stage.

 

Reagrdless, they will have to do something about it as the incentives on the global stage change towards transition plans, and therefore the money does too.

 

Some science loving dudes on a football forum explaining, like you say, what everyone knows makes absolutely no difference at all. But if you want decent work, be in demand and ensure a consistent revenue stream going forward you'll need to get on board with this. A bloke that works with gas in Coalville will soon have no options left in life.

 

Edit - nothing malicious in the coalville example! Laughing at coalville was earlier in this thread

Edited 19 July 2022 by grobyfox1990

[Guest Lako42]

Live Weather at Rothley | Mountsorrel Weather Station Tuesday, Jul 19, 2022 14:57 PM
TEMPERATURES			WINDS	MOISTURE		SOLAR
	Air: Air Hi: Air Lo: Grass: Grass Hi: Grass Lo: Concrete: Concrete Hi: Concrete Lo: Brick: Brick Hi: Brick Lo:	40.1 °C    0.8 °C/hr 40.1 °C 18.5 °C 48.3 °C    0.6 °C/hr 49.6 °C 21.2 °C 43.0 °C    2.8 °C/hr 47.3 °C 21.6 °C 54.4 °C    -1.2 °C/hr 58.3 °C 54.4 °C		Humidity: Dew Point: Wet Bulb Wind Chill Cloud Base Pressure: Falling Rain Today: Rain Past Hr Rain Rate Monthly Yearly	14% 8.2 °C 16.7 °C 10 °C 13,082 ft 1008.6 mb -0.6 mb/hr 0.0 mm 0.0 mm 0.0 mm/hr 7.1 mm 285.2 mm	Dawn: Sun Rise: Sun Set: Dark: Sun Elev: Solar: UV:	04:35 05:05 21:16 21:46 52.1 ° 722 W/m2 3.8 Id

[st albans fox]

9 minutes ago, reporterpenguin said:

Market Bosworth park (official Met station) has hit 38°C

East Midlands airport has been at 39c for more than an hour ..

[leicsmac]

13 minutes ago, yorkie1999 said:

We are screwed as long as china and the us don't play ball.

I agree.

 

But I'm still not seeing what utility there is of any kind in choosing the join them in a race to the bottom.

 

4 minutes ago, grobyfox1990 said:

The US are a crackpot and pursuing zero-covid/aligning with Russia will, weaken China on the world stage.

 

Reagrdless, they will have to do something about it as the incentives on the global stage change towards transition plans, and therefore the money does too.

 

Some science loving dudes on a football forum explaining, like you say, what everyone knows makes absolutely no difference at all. But if you want decent work, be in demand and ensure a consistent revenue stream going forward you'll need to get on board with this. A bloke that works with gas in Coalville will soon have no options left in life.

Then I guess what really matters isn't what everyone knows, it's what everyone does.

 

And personally I'm not going to accept the consequences of climate change in all their terribleness as a fait accompli just yet.