Martyn Glover

[AjcW]

1 minute ago, Aleksz said:

Thing is, when you’re a head of recruitment you get tarnished with the brush of every single signing made, when football clubs don’t really work like that, especially when a lot of it can be manager led as @coolhandfox points out. Or in some cases there will be agents in Rudkins ear too. There are many chefs to spoil the broth.

Look at last summers business for example, it’s pretty damn clear that Ayew, Skipp and Reid were Coopers doing. There was huge murmurs that Cooper was putting his foot down and demanding for premier league experience and he spoke about them all personally. There was also word that Cooper and Okoli shared the same agent. 

We can sit here and add him to a scapegoat list all we like but none of us will really know what he’s responsible for. Thought he/they really did well for summer 2023 (Apart from the slight over pays for Cannon and Coady) and that actually switching to what seems to be a more manager led approach for summer 2024 seems to have ruined that good work a bit. 
 

 

 

As I mentioned, his time here has arguably been his most successful, but is that down to the fact he hasn't had money to piss away?

I think Skipp was a Cooper signing, Ayew and Reid have serious similarities to others on glovers list, where managers like big sam would have asked exactly the same 'get me experience' questions. Skipp also feel like a bit of a financial fiddle, maybe we've let them off some Madders payments and they've given us a player but for public purposes we have to throw in transfer fees. At the time they were linked to Faes and I thought it was going to be a swap deal. 

 

I actually think Okoli, like Coulibaly will have been on Enzo's radar (played against him while at Udinese) and perhaps ones he recommended. We can go down the agent rabit hole for sure, but I think the only one who has held major influence was Wasserman and that ended with the Enzo saga. We've also delt with CAA Base for years (Madders for example)

[Aleksz]

Just now, AjcW said:

As I mentioned, his time here has arguably been his most successful, but is that down to the fact he hasn't had money to piss away?

I think Skipp was a Cooper signing, Ayew and Reid have serious similarities to others on glovers list, where managers like big sam would have asked exactly the same 'get me experience' questions. Skipp also feel like a bit of a financial fiddle, maybe we've let them off some Madders payments and they've given us a player but for public purposes we have to throw in transfer fees. At the time they were linked to Faes and I thought it was going to be a swap deal. 

 

I actually think Okoli, like Coulibaly will have been on Enzo's radar (played against him while at Udinese) and perhaps ones he recommended. We can go down the agent rabit hole for sure, but I think the only one who has held major influence was Wasserman and that ended with the Enzo saga. We've also delt with CAA Base for years (Madders for example)

Personally don’t think Enzo would have touched Okoli with a barge pole. Imagining Enzo football with Okoli on the ball is hilarious. I do think Coulibaly could be one they’ve had a look at for a while with the possibility of him coming in under Enzo yeah. 

 

Point still stands regarding agents though, Rudkin is so clearly in the pockets of some of them (Wasserman too) and adds another chef to the equation. 
 

I’d say it’s relatively easy to work out which ones are glovers (or just any member of recruitment staff worth their salt), which are managers and which have agent relationships involved once you do a bit of digging. 

[OntarioFox]

56 minutes ago, coolhandfox said:

It was pretty poor under Rodgers, with the odd gem, Enzo seemed to breathe new life into it and seemed to have doubled down on Cooper's requirements for PL experience.

 

Not to derail the thread, but which odd gems were they? Fofana's the only one I can think of, and even he I think wasn't exactly a world-beater, we just got lucky that Chelsea went absolutely mad after their embargo was lifted.

The only player to properly come through under Rodgers I can think of was Barnes, and he was an academy product. Maddison and Ricardo were both Puel-era signings, and Tielemans was a loanee under Puel before we chose to take him on permanently in the summer. That just leaves the likes of Perez and Justin, neither of which you could say with a straight face have had stand-out spells with us, and the latter of which is public enemy number one with a lot of the fanbase at present.

Edited 16 January by OntarioFox

[Lionator]

14 minutes ago, Aleksz said:

Thing is, when you’re a head of recruitment you get tarnished with the brush of every single signing made, when football clubs don’t really work like that, especially when a lot of it can be manager led as @coolhandfox points out. Or in some cases there will be agents in Rudkins ear too. There are many chefs to spoil the broth.

Look at last summers business for example, it’s pretty damn clear that Ayew, Skipp and Reid were Coopers doing. There was huge murmurs that Cooper was putting his foot down and demanding for premier league experience and he spoke about them all personally. There was also word that Cooper and Okoli shared the same agent. 

We can sit here and add him to a scapegoat list all we like but none of us will really know what he’s responsible for. Thought he/they really did well for summer 2023 (Apart from the slight over pays for Cannon and Coady) and that actually switching to what seems to be a more manager led approach for summer 2024 seems to have ruined that good work a bit. 
 

 

 

Surely Enzo had a big input in the 2023 signings. Certainly Doyle and Casadei and then findings players that could fill his holes. 

[Aleksz]

1 minute ago, Lionator said:

Surely Enzo had a big input in the 2023 signings. Certainly Doyle and Casadei and then findings players that could fill his holes. 

Doyle defo. I feel like I read somewhere that Hermansen might have been a lot down to Enzo too as he’d been on Man City’s lists for keepers for a long time too? Might have imagined that, god knows. 

[21st Century Fox]

7 minutes ago, Lionator said:

Surely Enzo had a big input in the 2023 signings. Certainly Doyle and Casadei and then findings players that could fill his holes. 

[Levi Port]

I do think a lot of our signings are quite manager led, most of those in the summer absolutely were. 
 

It was documented that we were looking for overseas young talent this last summer, and also that our whole scouting shortlist of potential players was changed once Cooper came in. He subsequently had a massive rock on for premier league experience and here we are. I think he’s more to blame than Glover.
 

We just don’t have a strong DofF that leads a consistent line of recruitment for a certain play style that we chose to stick too. Leaving us with a mish mash squad, each for a different system, just like United. 
 

The season before in the Championship, i do think that has to go down as a great window. The most recent was shocking. 

Edited 16 January by Levi Port

[kingfox]

Last season we had a clear direction under Enzo, both in terms of playing style and recruitment. On the whole Glover and his team pretty much delivered us a perfect window. Enzo wanted a ball playing goalkeeper, they identified Hermansen. He wanted wingers who were good in 1vs1 situations, they identified Fatawu and Mavididi. He wanted a midfield controller who is good in possession, we got in Winks. 
 

But then you undo all that good work by hiring a manager with no real plan, all he seemingly wanted was Premier League experience, which has done more harm than good. The only one that seemed to come with any real consideration was El Khannouss, because it reached a point in pre season where we were desperate for creativity. 
 

A mixture of overpaying for players, then moving away from Enzo’s structure just when things looked back on track has severely damaged us. 
 

Congerton now Glover have had a real mixture of a time with us, we have definitely overpaid for players on a number of occasions, but when you go from a particular style under Maresca, to then appointing Steve Cooper who tried to move away from Maresca’s style, then you’re bound to be left with a squad that is a bit all over the place. 

[Aleksz]

14 minutes ago, kingfox said:

Last season we had a clear direction under Enzo, both in terms of playing style and recruitment. On the whole Glover and his team pretty much delivered us a perfect window. Enzo wanted a ball playing goalkeeper, they identified Hermansen. He wanted wingers who were good in 1vs1 situations, they identified Fatawu and Mavididi. He wanted a midfield controller who is good in possession, we got in Winks. 
 

But then you undo all that good work by hiring a manager with no real plan, all he seemingly wanted was Premier League experience, which has done more harm than good. The only one that seemed to come with any real consideration was El Khannouss, because it reached a point in pre season where we were desperate for creativity. 
 

A mixture of overpaying for players, then moving away from Enzo’s structure just when things looked back on track has severely damaged us. 
 

Congerton now Glover have had a real mixture of a time with us, we have definitely overpaid for players on a number of occasions, but when you go from a particular style under Maresca, to then appointing Steve Cooper who tried to move away from Maresca’s style, then you’re bound to be left with a squad that is a bit all over the place. 

Absolutely spot on mate. When you compare last seasons summer window wit this seasons it’s easy to see the difference in direction and influence. 

[Bordersfox]

2 minutes ago, kingfox said:

Last season we had a clear direction under Enzo, both in terms of playing style and recruitment. On the whole Glover and his team pretty much delivered us a perfect window. Enzo wanted a ball playing goalkeeper, they identified Hermansen. He wanted wingers who were good in 1vs1 situations, they identified Fatawu and Mavididi. He wanted a midfield controller who is good in possession, we got in Winks. 
 

But then you undo all that good work by hiring a manager with no real plan, all he seemingly wanted was Premier League experience, which has done more harm than good. The only one that seemed to come with any real consideration was El Khannouss, because it reached a point in pre season where we were desperate for creativity. 
 

A mixture of overpaying for players, then moving away from Enzo’s structure just when things looked back on track has severely damaged us. 
 

Congerton now Glover have had a real mixture of a time with us, we have definitely overpaid for players on a number of occasions, but when you go from a particular style under Maresca, to then appointing Steve Cooper who tried to move away from Maresca’s style, then you’re bound to be left with a squad that is a bit all over the place. 

Spot on.  And, again, you can probably lay much of the blame at the clubs door.  We need DoF led signings and managerial recruitment that align with an overall vision/direction for the club.  You know, how a modern successful business should be run.  Not knee jerk appointments and recruitment that is manager led.  

 

Presumably Glover presents a suite of options to Rudkin and whoever is manager.  So he's not absolved of all responsibility but he's definitely not going to be the decision maker is he?  It is also much harder to identify suitable targets if you are being asked for a wildly different profile from manager to manager.  Not a chance, for example, we sign Ayew under Maresca. And that is just a ridiculous way to run recruitment.

 

No system is fool proof. But clubs like Brighton have a much better chance of sustainability because they have much better systems in place.  

[Stadt]

The drop off after Macia is insane.

 

Anybody that seems to be good at their job in the recruitment space seems to clear off quite quickly. Macia, Sormaz, Fontes etc.

[Ashley]

1 hour ago, OntarioFox said:

Not to derail the thread, but which odd gems were they? Fofana's the only one I can think of, and even he I think wasn't exactly a world-beater, we just got lucky that Chelsea went absolutely mad after their embargo was lifted.

The only player to properly come through under Rodgers I can think of was Barnes, and he was an academy product. Maddison and Ricardo were both Puel-era signings, and Tielemans was a loanee under Puel before we chose to take him on permanently in the summer. That just leaves the likes of Perez and Justin, neither of which you could say with a straight face have had stand-out spells with us, and the latter of which is public enemy number one with a lot of the fanbase at present.

Disagree with both Perez and Justin. 

 

JJ was on the verge of an England call up and going to Euro2020(21). He was brilliant for us up until his freak injury against Arsenal(I believe?) The fall of since then though isn't good to see. 

 

Perez I actually rated. Under rated by our fan base massively. 

 

He started our press and done so much off the ball the average jo doesn't realise or respect. 

[Kitchandro]

1 minute ago, Ashley said:

Disagree with both Perez and Justin. 

 

JJ was on the verge of an England call up and going to Euro2020(21). He was brilliant for us up until his freak injury against Arsenal(I believe?) The fall of since then though isn't good to see. 

 

Perez I actually rated. Under rated by our fan base massively. 

 

He started our press and done so much off the ball the average jo doesn't realise or respect. 

Sorry I can’t let this one go. Hideous player for us. Could not keep possession in any circumstance, terrible goal return, and cost us a place in the Champions League with one of his many sitters (Chelsea). 
 

He was so far below the standard the rest of the team set that he was arguably our most costly flop of all time. Were other players picked ahead of him we’d probably have scraped the top 4, he was that much of a hindrance.
 

 

[AKCJ]

I wonder what names he'll come up with for next season.

 

Lukas Jutkiewicz, Albert Adomah, Lee Camp, Jonny Howson and Richard Keogh? Lots of Championship experience. 

 

[CrispinLA in Texas]

18 minutes ago, Stadt said:

The drop off after Macia is insane.

 

Anybody that seems to be good at their job in the recruitment space seems to clear off quite quickly. Macia, Sormaz, Fontes etc.

Not forgetting last season that Enzo alluded to the fact that behind the scenes there isn't a much of a set-up in the club

[kingfox]

28 minutes ago, Aleksz said:

Absolutely spot on mate. When you compare last seasons summer window wit this seasons it’s easy to see the difference in direction and influence. 

We identified a particular style and planned perfectly for that particular style. Of course Enzo leaving threw a spanner in the works, but we should have continued with his blueprint and built on it. Brighton have been consistent because they’ve stuck with a particular blueprint, Bournemouth seem to be in the works of a particular blueprint, their recruitment recently has been mostly excellent. Where they are is where we need to strive towards, but one managerial appointment that deviated away from a particular plan has unsurprisingly hurt us. Who knows whether Enzo’s style would have worked with us in the Premier League, but to start building on something only to rip that plan up by appointing a different style of manager, it’s no surprise we currently look like a disjointed mess. 

 

28 minutes ago, Bordersfox said:

Spot on.  And, again, you can probably lay much of the blame at the clubs door.  We need DoF led signings and managerial recruitment that align with an overall vision/direction for the club.  You know, how a modern successful business should be run.  Not knee jerk appointments and recruitment that is manager led.  

 

Presumably Glover presents a suite of options to Rudkin and whoever is manager.  So he's not absolved of all responsibility but he's definitely not going to be the decision maker is he?  It is also much harder to identify suitable targets if you are being asked for a wildly different profile from manager to manager.  Not a chance, for example, we sign Ayew under Maresca. And that is just a ridiculous way to run recruitment.

 

No system is fool proof. But clubs like Brighton have a much better chance of sustainability because they have much better systems in place.  

Agreed. 
 

As I’ve mentioned to Aleksz above and as you’ve mentioned yourself, the blame firmly goes on the board for not sticking with a particular blueprint. 
 

Last summer was so particular in terms of signings, then you rip that up by appointing a manager with a different style who only really cared about Premier League experience. 
 

Now with RVN, imo we now have a manager more similar to Enzo, personally I can see what he’s trying to implement, but in certain areas he simply doesn’t have a strong enough squad to make it work. 
 

At least with the Coulibaly signing, some planning seems to have gone into it. Whether he is the answer we’ll have to wait and see, but at least he has certain attributes that we desperately needed in that RB position. 
 

Going forward I hope we see signings that you can clearly see fit in with a particular plan. A ball playing centre back with pace for example. 
 

As you’ve said yourself, the only way to get out of this mess is by following a particular model, Brighton being the perfect example. We got on the right track with Enzo, then we killed it, but now in terms of playing style I feel we’ve got back on the right track with RVN, but we now need the right recruitment to make it work, unfortunately a January transfer window is less ideal than a summer one. 

[Lionator]

20 minutes ago, CrispinLA in Texas said:

Not forgetting last season that Enzo alluded to the fact that behind the scenes there isn't a much of a set-up in the club

I know it’s a completely different sport/context but when Tigers were absolutely shambolic circa 2017-20 period, they got Pat Howard to come in and do a complete audit of the club as an elite sport business. Within two years of implementing the behind the scenes changes and his recommendations, they were domestic champions again, had the best academy in the country and seem to have a sustainable plan in spite of turbulence. 
 

Would our chairman have the humility to have an externally run review like that or will he continue to dig his grave. 

[Dan]

He's probably got to go as well. Our recruitment hasn't been good for years and he hasn't fixed it.

[Tommy Fresh]

2 minutes ago, kingfox said:

We identified a particular style and planned perfectly for that particular style. Of course Enzo leaving threw a spanner in the works, but we should have continued with his blueprint and built on it. Brighton have been consistent because they’ve stuck with a particular blueprint, Bournemouth seem to be in the works of a particular blueprint, their recruitment recently has been mostly excellent. Where they are is where we need to strive towards, but one managerial appointment that deviated away from a particular plan has unsurprisingly hurt us. Who knows whether Enzo’s style would have worked with us in the Premier League, but to start building on something only to rip that plan up by appointing a different style of manager, it’s no surprise we currently look like a disjointed mess. 

 

Agreed. 
 

As I’ve mentioned to Aleksz above and as you’ve mentioned yourself, the blame firmly goes on the board for not sticking with a particular blueprint. 
 

Last summer was so particular in terms of signings, then you rip that up by appointing a manager with a different style who only really cared about Premier League experience. 
 

Now with RVN, imo we now have a manager more similar to Enzo, personally I can see what he’s trying to implement, but in certain areas he simply doesn’t have a strong enough squad to make it work. 
 

At least with the Coulibaly signing, some planning seems to have gone into it. Whether he is the answer we’ll have to wait and see, but at least he has certain attributes that we desperately needed in that RB position. 
 

Going forward I hope we see signings that you can clearly see fit in with a particular plan. A ball playing centre back with pace for example. 
 

As you’ve said yourself, the only way to get out of this mess is by following a particular model, Brighton being the perfect example. We got on the right track with Enzo, then we killed it, but now in terms of playing style I feel we’ve got back on the right track with RVN, but we now need the right recruitment to make it work, unfortunately a January transfer window is less ideal than a summer one. 

Brighton are perfect transfer wise let's be honest, simply because it's owner led, he isn't bringing people in to the club who don't buy in to what he wants to do, so until he sells it I very much doubt they'll stray from their model.

 

But you'll still get numerous bitter fans of other clubs downplaying them, who also don't understand how they are run. I remember someone on here saying they'll lose staff and go back down the leagues, well they lost staff and it's business as usual.

[volpeazzurro]

2 hours ago, OntarioFox said:

Not to derail the thread, but which odd gems were they? Fofana's the only one I can think of, and even he I think wasn't exactly a world-beater, we just got lucky that Chelsea went absolutely mad after their embargo was lifted.

The only player to properly come through under Rodgers I can think of was Barnes, and he was an academy product. Maddison and Ricardo were both Puel-era signings, and Tielemans was a loanee under Puel before we chose to take him on permanently in the summer. That just leaves the likes of Perez and Justin, neither of which you could say with a straight face have had stand-out spells with us, and the latter of which is public enemy number one with a lot of the fanbase at present.

The recruitment under the Rodgers and Congerton era is essentially what has destroyed us. Despite spending around £200-250m, when he was sacked he was largely playing with the players he inherited, such was his recruitment. He was the same at Liverpool and Celtic before, it's just that the latter never had any credible opposition. 

[Ashley]

51 minutes ago, Kitchandro said:

Sorry I can’t let this one go. Hideous player for us. Could not keep possession in any circumstance, terrible goal return, and cost us a place in the Champions League with one of his many sitters (Chelsea). 
 

He was so far below the standard the rest of the team set that he was arguably our most costly flop of all time. Were other players picked ahead of him we’d probably have scraped the top 4, he was that much of a hindrance.
 

 

Sorry nope. He was good for us. 

 

Massive part in the FA Cup win for what he did with the goal. 

[kingfox]

1 minute ago, Tommy Fresh said:

Brighton are perfect transfer wise let's be honest, simply because it's owner led, he isn't bringing people in to the club who don't buy in to what he wants to do, so until he sells it I very much doubt they'll stray from their model.

 

But you'll still get numerous bitter fans of other clubs downplaying them, who also don't understand how they are run. I remember someone on here saying they'll lose staff and go back down the leagues, well they lost staff and it's business as usual.

We have punished ourselves by deviating away from a particular model. Of course there was a time where our recruitment would often get praised, then we seemed to deviate away from that by overpaying for certain players, which we’ve seen both under Congerton and Glover’s guidance.

 

We went with a particular model under Enzo, a clear identity and plan both on the field and in terms of recruitment model, then like we’ve done previously in terms of recruitment, we then deviate away from something that was perfect, then we spoil it by appointing a different style manager who wanted a different profile of players. 
 

Brighton are simply consistent because everything about their structure is consistent, from managerial appointments to the recruitment of players. They deserve praise for a reason, anybody who downplays their model is in the wrong imo. 

 

Like Brighton, we had a clear plan and identity last season, but we then fvcked it 

[Aleksz]

At the end of the day Glover has had to mop up Rodgers/Congertons/Rudkins mess on an absolute shoestring. Hasn’t been excellent but the blokes hands are tied really, even more so with Cooper coming in and demanding premier league experience be signed.

[honeybradger]

15 minutes ago, Aleksz said:

At the end of the day Glover has had to mop up Rodgers/Congertons/Rudkins mess on an absolute shoestring. Hasn’t been excellent but the blokes hands are tied really, even more so with Cooper coming in and demanding premier league experience be signed.

Part of it is his mess, Souttar, Kristiansen and Tete were his signings in 22/23. Might have been a bit of Rodgers forcing certain profiles on him but we cant know.

[Dahnsouff]

You view VK as a mistake? Or was it ours in his usage?