Strikes

[pleatout]

20 minutes ago, grobyfox1990 said:

Yeh of course the employee contribution is high but the employer part is also massive? Plus you can offset your contribution against tax obvs. My wife works in the NHS, the pension provision they get is unheard of compared to private hence you have many older consultants not wanting to come back to work, because they can't opt out and they've already hit the lifetime allowance LOL. The tax benefits plus investment gains over time make this a safer bet than a bonus paid subject to PAYE. R.e job security, do you have large scale rounds of sackings that aren't paid off with good redundancy terms? I'm asking not telling and like I said not moaning, I've made my choices, not going to finger point at others.

Redundancy rules are 1 months pay for every year worked EXCEPT the NHS doesnt generally make people redundant, it's too expensive. They try to redeploy or retire staff (that's worked well) or they privatise the service under "any qualified provider" and then the "new" provider makes the "adjustments" to the service.  AQPs arent something most people know about but for example, Virgin Health is an AQP.

 

Consultants (indeed all doctors) pensions are very different.  Most Doctors (GPs) are self employed.  Consultants, well it's complicated.  There are changes to the rules for consultants being proposed to remove the lifetime allowance "issue" https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-8626/  not sure what this has done as it doesnt affect me.

 

The rest of us... see above.  And we have no chance of hitting the lifetime allowance.

 

All pension contributions NHS and private can be offset against tax.

 

NHS pension provision is unheard of?!  Until 2015 we got 1/80th of our final salary for every year worked,  Most private final salary schemes worked on 1/60th for every year.  Since 2015 it is based on 1/54ths, but is now career average and not final salary.  Final salary scheme was closed somewhere between 2015 and 2022 depending on circumstances (again - it's complicated).

 

The employer contribution is 14.3% (or 20.6%).  There seems to be some confusion over who pays waht - but at the moment 14.3 %

 

 

Edited 18 January 2023 by pleatout

[grobyfox1990]

4 minutes ago, pleatout said:

Redundancy rules are 1 months pay for every year worked EXCEPT the NHS doesnt generally make people redundant, it's too expensive. They try to redeploy or retire staff (that's worked well) or they privatise the service under "any qualified provider" and then the "new" provider makes the "adjustments" to the service.  AQPs arent something most people know about but for example, Virgin Health is an AQP.

 

Consultants (indeed all doctors) pensions are very different.  Most Doctors (GPs) are self employed.  Consultants, well it's complicated.  There are changes to the rules for consultants being proposed to remove the lifetime allowance "issue" https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-8626/  not sure what this has done as it doesnt affect me.

 

The rest of us... see above.  And we have no chance of hitting the lifetime allowance.

 

All pension contributions NHS and private can be offset against tax.

 

NHS pension provision is unheard of?!  Until 2015 we got 1/80th of our final salary for every year worked,  Most private final salary schemes worked on 1/60th for every year.  Since 2015 it is based on 1/54ths, but is now career average and not final salary.  Final salary scheme was closed somewhere between 2015 and 2022 depending on circumstances (again - it's complicated).

 

Nice one, very interesting tbf!

[fox_up_north]

Just to clarify, in 2018 (my last full time teaching job in a classroom) was £25,500 per year and I considered that pretty decent money. 

 

I've seen some colleges offer new starts around £22k and "experienced" ones £28k. Now factor in travel costs, as very few teachers are near where they teach (for the same reasons police don't live in the area they patrol). 

 

So, yes, I absolutely support teacher strikes because I don't think there's enough money to get me back in the classroom. 

[Brizzle Fox]

12 minutes ago, fox_up_north said:

Just to clarify, in 2018 (my last full time teaching job in a classroom) was £25,500 per year and I considered that pretty decent money. 

 

I've seen some colleges offer new starts around £22k and "experienced" ones £28k. Now factor in travel costs, as very few teachers are near where they teach (for the same reasons police don't live in the area they patrol). 

 

So, yes, I absolutely support teacher strikes because I don't think there's enough money to get me back in the classroom. 

Is it really that low. If so that's obscene and I can perfectly understand why they are going on strike. More power to them I say. 

[FoxesDeb]

6 minutes ago, fox_up_north said:

Just to clarify, in 2018 (my last full time teaching job in a classroom) was £25,500 per year and I considered that pretty decent money. 

 

I've seen some colleges offer new starts around £22k and "experienced" ones £28k. Now factor in travel costs, as very few teachers are near where they teach (for the same reasons police don't live in the area they patrol). 

 

So, yes, I absolutely support teacher strikes because I don't think there's enough money to get me back in the classroom. 

I find that pretty shocking tbh, presumably you have a degree and all the other qualifications you need to teach?  In 2018 I was earning exactly the same salary in my job, but I had an entry level private sector job, albeit with 20 years experience. I also had a two thirds final salary pension, yearly pay rises in line with or above inflation, 32 days paid holiday plus bank holidays and all the tax perks that come with working for a big company. With the added bonus I didn't have to interact with minors and I could leave my job in the office at 4pm.

 

I wouldn't have swapped my job for yours for more money, never mind the same. You all fully deserve more.

[fox_up_north]

3 minutes ago, Brizzle Fox said:

Is it really that low. If so that's obscene and I can perfectly understand why they are going on strike. More power to them I say. 

Genuinely. That was after my PGCE and degree, doing full time English teaching in a mainstream college.

[fox_up_north]

I'll also add that while I did get "42 days holiday", I was limited as to when I could take them and I never actually used all 42 because there was work to be done. I also used to do evening classes until 8pm 1-2 nights per week. 

[Parafox]

4 hours ago, Tommy G said:

And what is your point? What about the tax they pay through PAYE to fund the public services? 

 

4 hours ago, Tommy G said:

Do you work in the public or private sector?  

 

4 hours ago, Tommy G said:

Please put down the Guardian 

Were you doing any meaningful, productive work 4 hours ago, or did you have a day off today

[Raj]

My mrs is in the NEU and I support them 100% to strike.

She gave up full time teaching at a college(Gateway) because of the stress.

Now does adult education part time.

Even now if you worked put the hours she works at home preparing, marking etc she would most probably be better off working in a warehouse the hourly rate would be that low.

Thing is she makes a difference.

The cards and gifts she gets from her students when they achieve something makes up for the negatives.

People who harp on about teachers holidays etc are talking bo11ox and havent got a clue.

Karen's  realised during the pandemic what it was like to look after"  little Johnny" who they thought could do no wrong at school and were blaming the teachers when little Johnny got detention every week. Then they realise actually little Johnny IS a cvnt and the teachers are better off with him.

If this sh1tty Government  dont look after the key workers of this country it will(IT IS ALREADY!) go down the sh1tter quicker.

 

Good luck to ALL the strikers.

[Raj]

1 hour ago, Parafox said:

 

 

Were you doing any meaningful, productive work 4 hours ago, or did you have a day off today

Just chatting sh1t as always...hes a CFO dont you know🙄🤣🤣

Edited 18 January 2023 by Raj

[Charl91]

9 hours ago, Tommy G said:

Thats quite an assumption

Is it? 

 

Most teachers aren't lazy, and work long hours (the average is 47 hours per week) . To say otherwise is factually incorrect. So I presume those people who shares those opinions are either ill-educated, ignorant or have malicious intent. 

 

But correct me if I'm wrong. Give me your factual reason for why most teachers are apparently lazy, and let's see how grounded in reality it is. 

 

Edited 18 January 2023 by Charl91

[Raj]

9 minutes ago, Charl91 said:

Is it? 

 

Most teachers aren't lazy, and work long hours (the average is 47 hours per week) . To say otherwise is factually incorrect. So I presume those people who shares those opinions are either ill-educated, ignorant or have malicious intent. 

 

But correct me if I'm wrong. Give me your factual reason for why most teachers are apparently lazy, and let's see how grounded in reality it is. 

 

Anyone who thinks(loosely speaking!) the majority of teachers are lazy either doesnt know any or hasn't spoken to any recently.

 If our resident CFO has suggested that, I too would like to know his rationale....

(Presumably  he has no kids yet!!!?)

[Zear0]

9 minutes ago, Raj said:

Anyone who thinks(loosely speaking!) the majority of teachers are lazy either doesnt know any or hasn't spoken to any recently.

 If our resident CFO has suggested that, I too would like to know his rationale....

(Presumably  he has no kids yet!!!?)

Lucky git

[Raj]

People who moan about teachers should take little Johnny out of school and home school them.

Let's see how quickly they change their opinions on teachers who have to deal with 30 of the little bastard$

[kenny]

2 hours ago, FoxesDeb said:

I find that pretty shocking tbh, presumably you have a degree and all the other qualifications you need to teach?  In 2018 I was earning exactly the same salary in my job, but I had an entry level private sector job, albeit with 20 years experience. I also had a two thirds final salary pension, yearly pay rises in line with or above inflation, 32 days paid holiday plus bank holidays and all the tax perks that come with working for a big company. With the added bonus I didn't have to interact with minors and I could leave my job in the office at 4pm.

 

I wouldn't have swapped my job for yours for more money, never mind the same. You all fully deserve more.

Current teaching salaries are £28-38k as a base level teacher with no other responsibilities. The pension is reported to be worth £10k or so on top.

 

The perks with your job were much better than you get in most jobs!!

[Raj]

3 hours ago, fox_up_north said:

Just to clarify, in 2018 (my last full time teaching job in a classroom) was £25,500 per year and I considered that pretty decent money. 

 

I've seen some colleges offer new starts around £22k and "experienced" ones £28k. Now factor in travel costs, as very few teachers are near where they teach (for the same reasons police don't live in the area they patrol). 

 

So, yes, I absolutely support teacher strikes because I don't think there's enough money to get me back in the classroom. 

I take it you left the profession?

May I ask what the last straw was and what you are doing now?

My Mrs says she would never ho back to full time teaching kids- would you ever?

[Daggers]

13 hours ago, Jon the Hat said:

If you expect everyone to get a pay rise in line with inflation you are in dreamland.

Absolutely. What is it with these people who seem to object to cumulative annual real terms pay cuts? The uppity shits. Oh for the days when people knew they should tug their forelocks and stfu. 

[Tommy G]

3 hours ago, Parafox said:

 

 

Were you doing any meaningful, productive work 4 hours ago, or did you have a day off today

Slow day today 🤣

[Tommy G]

2 hours ago, Raj said:

Just chatting sh1t as always...hes a CFO dont you know🙄🤣🤣

Green eyed monster is out…what have I ever done to you? Apart from having a differing opinion. Hardly criminal of the year!

[Tommy G]

2 hours ago, Raj said:

Anyone who thinks(loosely speaking!) the majority of teachers are lazy either doesnt know any or hasn't spoken to any recently.

 If our resident CFO has suggested that, I too would like to know his rationale....

(Presumably  he has no kids yet!!!?)

Thanks for the insight - I have one child who has global development delay and is in a specialist nursery, has complex needs - completely non verbal and will be going to Dorothy Goodman next year. Do you have kids? If you do have you ever thought what it would be like to have never heard them utter a word to you, or understand what they need whether it’s food drink or the toilet?
 

I have had to fight for every single bit of Education he has received since birth, had to try and pay my way privately as the NHS has so desperately let us down. Not once have I said anything disregarding teachers - I said it was an assumption that everyone who disagrees with strikes is ill educated - what’s wrong with that? I’ve seen the good and the bad in the education system and taken the local authority to tribunal. 
 

This place is for opinions - some you agree with some you don’t - so be it. Don’t think people have it easy because they are on a 6 figure salary. 

Edited 18 January 2023 by Tommy G

[SecretPro]

Civil Servant strikes will be a big test. Historically they never garner much support from the public and then there is the complete and utter myth of the magical civil service pension. 

 

I've been a civil servant for 18 years. The work I currently do is well, WELL above my pay grade and I get no reward. Our office has gone from 57 people 7 or 8 years ago to 19. I'm doing the work of 3 people. My job is a front line service, I am a very key worker, I had to work through Covid from the office, the department nationally is already a laughing stock and is so stretched that its genuinely close to snapping and if it does the consequences will effect more of us than not. 

 

I earn £21,000 a year. I haven't had a proper payrise since 2010. Taking into account cost of living and inflation, stagnation of wages and my lack of pay rise and I earn much less in real terms than I did the day I started back in 2005. 

 

This is similar for the Majority of civil servants in most departments but for some reason when you say 'civil servant' most people think of some suit in Westminster pushing a pen for £150k per year. 

 

Support the strikes. 

[Parafox]

1 hour ago, Tommy G said:

Thanks for the insight - I have one child who has global development delay and is in a specialist nursery, has complex needs - completely non verbal and will be going to Dorothy Goodman next year. Do you have kids? If you do have you ever thought what it would be like to have never heard them utter a word to you, or understand what they need whether it’s food drink or the toilet?
 

I have had to fight for every single bit of Education he has received since birth, had to try and pay my way privately as the NHS has so desperately let us down. Not once have I said anything disregarding teachers - I said it was an assumption that everyone who disagrees with strikes is ill educated - what’s wrong with that? I’ve seen the good and the bad in the education system and taken the local authority to tribunal. 
 

This place is for opinions - some you agree with some you don’t - so be it. Don’t think people have it easy because they are on a 6 figure salary. 

Erm, OK. I'll "believe you". Do you ever think to wonder why? Underfunding, maybe? Lack of staffing, maybe? 

 

If the funding had been there within the NHS to provide the care needed, would you have taken advantage or would you still have gone private? I do wonder.

 

That doesn't make what you say about strikes the right answer. There is no right answer just a reasonable outcome. Which you seem to object to. 

 

You can afford private health care. Well fine and if you can, so be it. Just don't belittle those that can't. And support those that need and deserve a little bit more in their pay packet. 

 

 

Edited 18 January 2023 by Parafox

[ozleicester]

1 hour ago, Tommy G said:

Thanks for the insight - I have one child who has global development delay and is in a specialist nursery, has complex needs - completely non verbal and will be going to Dorothy Goodman next year. Do you have kids? If you do have you ever thought what it would be like to have never heard them utter a word to you, or understand what they need whether it’s food drink or the toilet?
 

I have had to fight for every single bit of Education he has received since birth, had to try and pay my way privately as the NHS has so desperately let us down. Not once have I said anything disregarding teachers - I said it was an assumption that everyone who disagrees with strikes is ill educated - what’s wrong with that? I’ve seen the good and the bad in the education system and taken the local authority to tribunal. 
 

This place is for opinions - some you agree with some you don’t - so be it. Don’t think people have it easy because they are on a 6 figure salary. 

do you think the nurses, assistants and teachers that help your child should get paid more than you get?

[Tommy G]

2 minutes ago, Parafox said:

Erm, OK. I'll "believe you". Do you ever think to wonder why? Underfunding, maybe? Lack of staffing, maybe? 

 

That doesn't make what you say about strikes the right answer. There is no right answer just a reasonable outcome. Which you seem to object to. 

 

You can afford private health care. Well fine and if you can, so be it. Just don't belittle those that can't. And support those that need and deserve a little bit more in their pay packet. 

 

 

The NHS has been a sinking ship under the previous government and has got worse under the tories. There is a thousand reasons why it’s gone wrong and not always down to money. 
 

So me disagreeing with you who believes your own viewpoint as a reasonable outcome means I’m wrong does it? You’ve conceded there is no right answer. 
 

As for private healthcare I’m fortunate to get it through work, it’s a taxed benefit so isn’t a freebie either. I haven’t “belittled” anyone either? If you are going to put your point across at least challenge something I’ve said and not make things up. 

[Tommy G]

1 minute ago, ozleicester said:

do you think the nurses, assistants and teachers that help your child should get paid more than you get?

Should a leading consultant cardiologist of 25 years get paid more than someone who works in an elderly care home? Both do completely and equally valuable jobs. It’s about as insane as the question you asked me.

1 minute ago, ozleicester said: