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moore_94

Luke Thomas

By moore_94, in Transfer Talk

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brookfox

brookfox

Posted
Posted
15 minutes ago, LCFCJohn said:

I think the point is more if Enzo doesn’t work out. Of course it’s looking good at the moment and I’m very impressed at how he has got 5 wins from 5 with an uncertain team, incomings and outgoings and whilst managing to start imprinting the identity quickly. But football is fast moving and fickle. What is we had a massive reversal of fortunes and he was sent on his way? I think it’d take a massive change in circumstances don’t get me wrong after how much we are putting in. Or if he got poached in a few months?

 

My point basically, is if we are kidding ourselves the future of football generally is not having fullbacks, that is incorrect. It is a Pep and therefore Enzo thing. Literally any other manager and we’d be up shit creek needing massive recruitment again. 

There'll be loads of teams who don't have specialist positions in their squad because of how a manager wants to play; 352 = no full backs, midfield diamond = no wingers, 433 = no need for a 10, false 9 = no target man. Surely you've got to back your manager with the squad he needs for the formation/tactics he wants to play. Then if you do change manager replace them with someone not too dissimilar in style so you're not constantly over-hauling your squad too much.

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LCFCJohn

LCFCJohn

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, Sideshow Faes said:

Ultimately you either go all in with your new manager's philosophy or you don't. 

We can't keep paying players, reducing what's left on their contracts and therefore their transfer value, while not using them. We have to sell him.

Thing is I do agree with this principle also. We can’t be carrying players who won’t be used. 
 

I suppose ultimately, whilst impressed with his start and whilst feeling positive about the future of his time with us, I just wish his philosophy could be a bit more like every other club, just in terms of the full back situation.
 

Obviously every other position is fine. A goalkeeper who seemed very well rounded great. Centre backs will be centre backs in any system and having ones better on the ball can’t hurt. Central midfielder, wingers etc all good. 
 

It felt that left back was the one position we went into pre-season well covered in with two good young talents to compete with each other so it’s just a shame I think that is is unwilling to have gone with a system that utilised a bit more what we had than trying to literally match Man City position by position. 

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LCFCJohn

LCFCJohn

Posted
Posted
Just now, brookfox said:

There'll be loads of teams who don't have specialist positions in their squad because of how a manager wants to play; 352 = no full backs, midfield diamond = no wingers, 433 = no need for a 10, false 9 = no target man. Surely you've got to back your manager with the squad he needs for the formation/tactics he wants to play. Then if you do change manager replace them with someone not too dissimilar in style so you're not constantly over-hauling your squad too much.

Absolutely, particularly your last line. But every other manager apart from Pep either plays with full backs or wing backs so in this position, we would be stuck if we brought anybody else in.

 

Even right back is fine as Ricardo and Justin would play in any capacity needed, conventional full back, wing back or the role Ricardo has been playing this season. 

 

Im not sure what the answer is. Ideally a left sided defender who can also play as an out and out left sided player if needed. I’m not sure how Doyle would be in that situation as I thought of him as principally a centre half or left side of a three. He is also playing in a further wide position than I would have expected him to.

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Guest Sideshow Faes

Guest Sideshow Faes

Posted
Posted
6 minutes ago, LCFCJohn said:

Thing is I do agree with this principle also. We can’t be carrying players who won’t be used. 
 

I suppose ultimately, whilst impressed with his start and whilst feeling positive about the future of his time with us, I just wish his philosophy could be a bit more like every other club, just in terms of the full back situation.
 

Obviously every other position is fine. A goalkeeper who seemed very well rounded great. Centre backs will be centre backs in any system and having ones better on the ball can’t hurt. Central midfielder, wingers etc all good. 
 

It felt that left back was the one position we went into pre-season well covered in with two good young talents to compete with each other so it’s just a shame I think that is is unwilling to have gone with a system that utilised a bit more what we had than trying to literally match Man City position by position. 

You're right that it's a risk but I don't think there's much choice. It is what it is. 

 

Tbh I actually don't think Thomas is good though either but that's a side issue to what we've been discussing. 

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LCFCJohn

LCFCJohn

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Sideshow Faes said:

You're right that it's a risk but I don't think there's much choice. It is what it is. 

 

Tbh I actually don't think Thomas is good though either but that's a side issue to what we've been discussing. 

I suppose let’s say we signed Doyle permanently and kept this system, then Enzo left us for a new role and a new manager wanted Doyle as a CB, I suppose it’s a case of just signing a new left back. Probably not a massive deal. 
 

My view on Thomas is as it is on certain other players. I’m reluctant to judge our younger players who have come into the club or through to the first team under Rodgers and had sporadic time in the team as I think it was an awful environment for young players finding their way. If they fail to make it elsewhere then fine. Until then I think it is more about what our club has done to them. We are where young careers have come to die in recent years. 

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brookfox

brookfox

Posted
Posted
9 minutes ago, LCFCJohn said:

Absolutely, particularly your last line. But every other manager apart from Pep either plays with full backs or wing backs so in this position, we would be stuck if we brought anybody else in.

 

Don't disagree, it's a risk but think we have no choice now but go all in and (hopefully!) enjoy the ride.

 

Plus there aren't many other managers who play it today as Pep has just "invented it" (or maybe someone else did, I can't be bothered to look into it!). There'll be enough Pep disciples out there that in the coming seasons others will adopt the approach. We've just a bit of first mover advantage as we have someone who already understands the tactic intricately given his previous role. The trick of Pep (and then Enzo and co.) will be to work out what next when the inverted full back role becomes the norm.

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Guest Sideshow Faes

Guest Sideshow Faes

Posted
Posted
7 minutes ago, brookfox said:

Don't disagree, it's a risk but think we have no choice now but go all in and (hopefully!) enjoy the ride.

 

Plus there aren't many other managers who play it today as Pep has just "invented it" (or maybe someone else did, I can't be bothered to look into it!). There'll be enough Pep disciples out there that in the coming seasons others will adopt the approach. We've just a bit of first mover advantage as we have someone who already understands the tactic intricately given his previous role. The trick of Pep (and then Enzo and co.) will be to work out what next when the inverted full back role becomes the norm.

It was noticeable at the weekend that man city just played with 3 CBs and 2 DMs. Just at the moment when arsenal, Liverpool etc have all gone with inverted wing backs.

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Jimbo

Jimbo

Posted
Posted
19 hours ago, LCFCJohn said:

I think the point is more if Enzo doesn’t work out. Of course it’s looking good at the moment and I’m very impressed at how he has got 5 wins from 5 with an uncertain team, incomings and outgoings and whilst managing to start imprinting the identity quickly. But football is fast moving and fickle. What is we had a massive reversal of fortunes and he was sent on his way? I think it’d take a massive change in circumstances don’t get me wrong after how much we are putting in. Or if he got poached in a few months?

 

My point basically, is if we are kidding ourselves the future of football generally is not having fullbacks, that is incorrect. It is a Pep and therefore Enzo thing. Literally any other manager and we’d be up shit creek needing massive recruitment again. 

Not really, we'd need a couple of full backs at most and that would be just as cover. 

 

Say we ship out Thomas and the worst was to happen, Enzo finds himself looking for another job in January and we bring in a manger who likes to play 433, 352, 4231 or even the good old fashioned 442. Where is the massive recruitment we need? 

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LcFc_Smiv

LcFc_Smiv

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, JimJams said:

Will he play? Can't say I'm up to speed on their fullback situation.

Yes I think so. They let Enda Stevens go at the end of the season, Rhys Norrington Davies is pretty much always injured. They have Yasser Larouci who they signed this summer but many can't see him being up to the standard, he was at fault for the second Man City goal on Sunday and also had the chance to play the ball to the back stick for a chance to make it 2-2 and he decided to take the shot and blaze one well over the bar. If he's not going to feature for us I'd love it if he got regular game time with Sheff Utd.

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