Southampton (a) Pre Match Thread

[Tommy G]

1 minute ago, hackneyfox said:

A number?

Just how many?

2 or 3

[Drink Water]

Will Coady be fit by Friday?

[FosseSpark]

Hermansen

Faes Coady Justin

Ricardo Winks 

Fatawu Casadei Mavididi

Iheanacho

Vardy

 

let's have at the bastards and cover some of their attacking pace by not playing a human wardrobe in defence,  bringing in Justin and providing a decent base for us to bring Fatawu, Mavididi into the game. Also instead of KDH as link man lets have Iheanacho picking the ball up and playing it wide before getting in the box. 

[Chelmofox]

8 minutes ago, Drink Water said:

Will Coady be fit by Friday?

Strongly doubt it. I believe he was due back training about nowish so doubt he will be ready to start. 

[Wolfox]

54 minutes ago, filbertway said:

Put Vestergaard at left back and I imagine he'd look even worse than Doyle has done.

Sorry, I wasn’t clear enough….   I know there’s no chance he could do Doyle’s job…. I was simply pointing out that he’s done pretty well so far and that Doyle in a similar (but different) role has made more individual errors…

[filbertway]

2 minutes ago, Wolfox said:

Sorry, I wasn’t clear enough….   I know there’s no chance he could do Doyle’s job…. I was simply pointing out that he’s done pretty well so far and that Doyle in a similar (but different) role has made more individual errors…

Fair one. Coady isn't strong in these areas...or really any defensive areas in terms of tackling and heading. So I'd imagine he will come in for Vesty and play sweeper. Then it's a case of will his organisational skills outweigh his weaknesses in the position.

 

Everton fans were gushing over him after a few games but over the period of about 10 games they were less and less impressed.

 

 

[Chelmofox]

6 hours ago, OriginalRobboFOX said:

I don’t understand why we don’t see JJ in place of Doyle. He can play LB and CB and seems perfect for that role where he has to become 3rd CB when Ricky goes into midfield. I would have expected to have seen Enzo try this in a league game by now having watched Doyle’s up and down performances…

It seems clear to me that they are carefully managing JJ's reintroduction to the first team. I don't think this is because Enzo doesn't think he's good enough. If that was the case i think there would have been murmurings of loans or transfers. Its cliche ridden that this season is a Marathon. I think right now Doyle is very much learning on the job, and a lot of us have been critical at times, but its nowhere near him being ready to be hooked off, especially if it means risking JJ too soon.  We've conceded 4 goals so far, and we do not need to panic.

 

We start to see games come thick and fast soon. From the Liverpool game (27th September) we are going to have 7 games in 32 days.  It will be fascinated to see how the first team evolves during this period, and if players like JJ spend more time on the pitch, and it will be interesting to see what happens when Coady is introduced. 

[Claridge]

Doyle and Vesty are both so slow it seems crazy to play 3 at the back with them, don't see how it improves us with the squad we have. Chuck one out please Enzo or both if Coady's fit

[ronnup]

2 hours ago, Chelmofox said:

It seems clear to me that they are carefully managing JJ's reintroduction to the first team. I don't think this is because Enzo doesn't think he's good enough. If that was the case i think there would have been murmurings of loans or transfers. Its cliche ridden that this season is a Marathon. I think right now Doyle is very much learning on the job, and a lot of us have been critical at times, but its nowhere near him being ready to be hooked off, especially if it means risking JJ too soon.  We've conceded 4 goals so far, and we do not need to panic.

 

We start to see games come thick and fast soon. From the Liverpool game (27th September) we are going to have 7 games in 32 days.  It will be fascinated to see how the first team evolves during this period, and if players like JJ spend more time on the pitch, and it will be interesting to see what happens when Coady is introduced. 

 

I think that left sided Cb really needs to be left footed 

[Ric Flair]

18 hours ago, Tommy G said:

Agree but that would go against the Doyle love in, he's 19 and has a tonne to learn - been at fault for a number of our goals this seasom.

Which goals? 

 

Cov was Vestergaard / Hermandsen

Cardiff was a 35 yard shit pinger

Rotherham was Doyle

Hull was Vestergaard turning his back but wouldn't really say that was a huge error

[teblin]

5 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

Which goals? 

 

Cov was Vestergaard / Hermandsen

Cardiff was a 35 yard shit pinger

Rotherham was Doyle

Hull was Vestergaard turning his back but wouldn't really say that was a huge error

I wasn’t there but wasn’t is Doyle that delay went past before his shot? Not a mistake but maybe could’ve done slightly better.

[MGLCFC]

15 minutes ago, teblin said:

I wasn’t there but wasn’t is Doyle that delay went past before his shot? Not a mistake but maybe could’ve done slightly better.

Yes, Doyle was too easily beaten by Delap when cutting in. This seemed an occurrence v Hull. Again Vestergaard getting stick unfairly IMO. Had it deflected off him and gone wide, would people be saying what a great block it was? I have to say however, I think Doyle is an exciting player and at 19 still learning, so I'm not hear to say 'drop him to the bench' as I think he contributes far more positives to our style of play, than negatives.

[Ric Flair]

1 hour ago, teblin said:

I wasn’t there but wasn’t is Doyle that delay went past before his shot? Not a mistake but maybe could’ve done slightly better.

Exactly, it's not a mistake but you don't want to be beaten in those areas often, which to his credit he hasn't. A handful across the opening 5 league games.

 

Vestergaard turning his back though is basic, it's like pulling out a 50/50. I wouldn't care whether it was Jannick or Vardy, if either turns their back and it causes a goal then it's a mistake and a frustrating one.

 

Those saying what if it had deflected wide is like saying what happens if you left the bath running and it gave your cat something to drink. Square on and it's much less likely that can be deflected in to the danger, not impossible but much less likely.

[jmono84]

1 hour ago, MGLCFC said:

Yes, Doyle was too easily beaten by Delap when cutting in. This seemed an occurrence v Hull. Again Vestergaard getting stick unfairly IMO. Had it deflected off him and gone wide, would people be saying what a great block it was? I have to say however, I think Doyle is an exciting player and at 19 still learning, so I'm not hear to say 'drop him to the bench' as I think he contributes far more positives to our style of play, than negatives.

Vester does get a bit of stick which he doesn’t deserve this season, he’s done well, but he has to make himself bigger when that shot comes in but he does the opposite and turns sideways making himself smaller. Still unlucky how it deflected into the bottom corner tho.

 

Doyle has been fine, there will moments when he gets skinned or a player will cut inside against him, this will happen to every player in the whole sport, if it was happening constantly I’d be worried but I’ve seen several times that he can hold his own and win plenty from attacking players.

[FoxinNotts]

It won't happen, obvs, but this is what I would do...

 

3-2-2-3

 

Hermansen

 

Faes

Vestergaard (just because it's against his old team. Last game for him, for me, bench for a while as Souttar and Coady (when fit) to come in)

Doyle

 

Ricardo 

Winks

 

Casadei

K D H

 

Fatawu

Cannon

Akgun

 

Ward, Justin, Souttar, Ndidi, Albrighton, Mavididi, Vardy, Iheanacho, Daka

 

I think for everyone's sanity, we need to bring the outcasts back into the match day fold, to project our strongest 20 man squad onto the league, going into our toughest period.

We start to put out this 20-21 on the team sheet, we'll have won the mind games before most matches in this league, before we've kicked a ball!

 

[sacreblueits442]

2 hours ago, FoxinNotts said:

It won't happen, obvs, but this is what I would do...

 

3-2-2-3

 

Hermansen

 

Faes

Vestergaard (just because it's against his old team. Last game for him, for me, bench for a while as Souttar and Coady (when fit) to come in)

Doyle

 

Ricardo 

Winks

 

Casadei

K D H

 

Fatawu

Cannon

Akgun

 

Ward, Justin, Souttar, Ndidi, Albrighton, Mavididi, Vardy, Iheanacho, Daka

 

I think for everyone's sanity, we need to bring the outcasts back into the match day fold, to project our strongest 20 man squad onto the league, going into our toughest period.

We start to put out this 20-21 on the team sheet, we'll have won the mind games before most matches in this league, before we've kicked a ball!

 

...Fatawu and Akgun play on the right hand side, any reason why you are electing to play either on the wrong side!!!

[AjcW]

Not seen it mentioned much but i'm a bit worried about the fact Faes, Cas and Fatawu all feature today. 

 

Means all will return home tomorrow, possibly be able to squeeze in a thursday AM session before travelling down to Southampton.

I think it's highly likely all three are on the bench Friday night.

[Grebfromgrebland]

This will be the first real test and an indicator of how good we actually are.  Southampton have the players to exploit our open defence so it will be interesting to see if Enzo does anything to counter that rather than hoping on the oppositions poor finishing.

[StriderHiryu]

On 11/09/2023 at 11:08, SouthStandUpperTier said:

Going to be interesting to see what kind of pattern this game settles into with both teams wanting to dominate possession.

 

Another thing to note is that Southampton like to play their possession football higher up the pitch than we do

 

 

Touches in defensive 3rd

Southampton   840

Leicester          1129

 

 

Touches in middle 3rd

Southampton   2271

Leicester           1880

 

 

Touches in attacking 3rd

Southampton   1309

Leicester             870

 

Both teams have a very small sample size to really dissect exactly how they work, but on the surface, it seems like both teams to do a similar thing. Recirculate possession around the team to activate a pressing trigger from the opponent, and then pass it around that team to exploit the spaces they leave behind.

 

The biggest differences I can see is that Maresca prefers to have a fixed block of 5 men back and 5 men forwards, whereas Martin starts that way but commits more and more players forwards as they get more and more possession. This has pros and cons, the pro is that this means they make more chances as they generate more and more numerical advantage. But the disadvantage is that it leaves even more gaps in their team that get exploited on the transition. This is what happened in their 5-0 defeat, every time they lost the ball they were ruthlessly exploited. And here's the thing, Maresca has set our team up to be a team that plays through the gaps at high speed to create quality chances. On paper, if Southampton play the way they did against Sunderland, they will get picked off. This will be the first game we play where the team against us doesn't play a deep block and has the quality to make it matter. That should suit us as the game will be a lot more open.

 

 

^ Some Southampton passing stats. The big stylistic difference between us and them is that both their fullbacks invert at times to give them midfield superiority, but they are also the players that are used the most to make passes and circulate the ball.

 

 

^ Compare that to our team, and you see that Harry Winks is our main man, with Riccy P as his deputy. Vestergaard and Bednarek fulfil the same role in both teams, they are the centre back / quarter back style player that will hold onto the ball for a long period of time before passing it.

 

So the game comes down to this. Does the extra man Southampton use in their build up work to play through us, or do they end up with both fullbacks out of possession, meaning they are even more vulnerable on the transition? For this reason, I think Ndidi might start, because he's better at winning the ball higher up on the pitch than Casadei, even though the latter is a far better player technically.

 

All this assumes neither manager makes changes to the way they play, and I suspect neither will, though after the 5-0 tonking, Southampton would be the team to change it.

[CosbehFox]

Nice of Sky to stick the two teams with the most international calls up in the division on a Friday night 

[filbertway]

4 minutes ago, CosbehFox said:

Nice of Sky to stick the two teams with the most international calls up in the division on a Friday night 

Throw in the fact it'll take 3-4 hours to get there for fans, it's a doozie  

 

[Dandy king]

22 hours ago, FosseSpark said:

Hermansen

Faes Coady Justin

Ricardo Winks 

Fatawu Casadei Mavididi

Iheanacho

Vardy

 

let's have at the bastards and cover some of their attacking pace by not playing a human wardrobe in defence,  bringing in Justin and providing a decent base for us to bring Fatawu, Mavididi into the game. Also instead of KDH as link man lets have Iheanacho picking the ball up and playing it wide before getting in the box. 

Like it, no chance it happens tho even if coady is fit

[FoxinNotts]

1 hour ago, sacreblueits442 said:

...Fatawu and Akgun play on the right hand side, any reason why you are electing to play either on the wrong side!!!

Just to fit them both in my best team. They have both had stints on the left for their parent clubs

I personally think they are both better than, Mavididi, Marc, McAteer

[StriderHiryu]

Regarding the wings, the Right Wing position is one of the most important parts of the tactical battle for this one. Ryan Manning starts at LB but inverts into midfield for the Saints, meaning that any time we turn the ball over, there is a pass on for our right winger immediately. Our system of play already looks to isolate our winger and one of their players 1 on 1, but in this game there will be times when the player is totally unmarked if we find them quickly. And we are good at finding them.

 

For that reason, I think he will start with Yunus instead of Fatawu because for this player it will all be about making the right decision in terms of picking out the pass or driving at goal, rather than having to beat their man. Fatawu looked the more exciting player, but can he keep his composure in the decisive moment? In time, he will get there, but I think it's likely he doesn't start for that reason, unless he's been impressive in training.

 

[AjcW]

1 minute ago, StriderHiryu said:

Regarding the wings, the Right Wing position is one of the most important parts of the tactical battle for this one. Ryan Manning starts at LB but inverts into midfield for the Saints, meaning that any time we turn the ball over, there is a pass on for our right winger immediately. Our system of play already looks to isolate our winger and one of their players 1 on 1, but in this game there will be times when the player is totally unmarked if we find them quickly. And we are good at finding them.

 

For that reason, I think he will start with Yunus instead of Fatawu because for this player it will all be about making the right decision in terms of picking out the pass or driving at goal, rather than having to beat their man. Fatawu looked the more exciting player, but can he keep his composure in the decisive moment? In time, he will get there, but I think it's likely he doesn't start for that reason, unless he's been impressive in training.

 

Great analysis as always, but you could have just put 'Yunus will start because Abdul isn't back from duty until Wednesday and will likely only fit a half session in'