There's now a pattern - The reality is.... We're offensively awful.

[Dickov22]

On 11/11/2023 at 17:26, Bert said:

The problem is we are trying for the perfect goal too much. 

Totally agree. Sometimes we need to be more direct. 

[Lillehamring]

10 hours ago, LinekersLugs said:

The backs against forwards platform he has built needs top quality strikers 

 

we are short in that department 

 

have been for too long now 

We have top quality strikers we're just not getting them good enough chances, and when we do, they're not playing to their abilities.

It's a collective issue, but given how new this team and system is, it's going to take time for things to work as they should.

[cropstonfox]

18 minutes ago, Lillehamring said:

And yet still contrived to lose to Stoke and draw with Rotherham respectively.... ipswich have also failed to keep a clean sheet their last four games, leeds have 1 CS in  their last 6.

We weren't great against boro and we were poor against Leeds - but they're no more dangerous than we are.

Yes all much of a muchness in this division.

Good luck and bad luck.Good days bad days.Lets look at the table in April.

 

[cropstonfox]

42 minutes ago, Basildon Fox said:

This team is like chalk and cheese to those 2 teams. We have over a dozen internationals playing for us, most of the countries top ranked in World football.

 

To be anything other than double points ahead of third would be pound for pound a massive underachievement.

 

We are playing so far within ourselves at the moment. We need to be quicker on the ball. We would absolutely blow most, if not all of the teams in this division away. Tippy tappy, sideways football just does not do it for me. We can still control games by being far more aggressive with our approach.

Name them, the dozen top internationals.

Got me there?

[lcfc_forever]

20 minutes ago, Dan LCFC said:

7/8 clear chances  we haven't had that in the last 4 games combined!

Yeah, don’t get that - it was four at most yesterday but the general point is sound. 
 

Some of our fans have become so jaded. This was going to take time - Klopp, Guardiola took time to implement their vision. And when you think about our player turnover, it’s incredible to have done so well so quickly. I enjoy watching our play and the best should still be to come when the players get better with more practice. 

[Basildon Fox]

1 hour ago, cropstonfox said:

Name them, the dozen top internationals.

Got me there?

Firstly I said top International Countries - Faes, Vestegaard, Souter, Coady, Ianacho, N'Didi, Daka, Hermanson, Iverson, Praet etc.

 

Justin, Winks & Vardy all played for England and the first two I am sure would love to try and get back in at some point. Oh and Ricardo before the injury was a regular too.

 

Have a look at every other team in this division and they are no where near.

[cropstonfox]

6 minutes ago, Basildon Fox said:

Firstly I said top International Countries - Faes, Vestegaard, Souter, Coady, Ianacho, N'Didi, Daka, Hermanson, Iverson, Praet etc.

 

Justin, Winks & Vardy all played for England and the first two I am sure would love to try and get back in at some point. Oh and Ricardo before the injury was a regular too.

 

Have a look at every other team in this division and they are no where near.

OK on paper we are decent. But we miss a Matty Elliot or a Muzzy or a Jamie Vardy as we knew him.Dickov or Nugent would walk into this team.But yes compared to the rest of the division we should do well.

Enjoy the rest of the season.

[Mark 'expert' Lawrenson]

3 hours ago, Sideshow Faes said:

They were the best team ever.

Their highlights reel is ridiculous.

But they also did pass for the sake of passing and it could be truly boring for long periods.

Maybe you've just forgotten what full matches were like? 

Haha watching Messi, Iniesta, Xavi Alba etc etc the most boring team ever….you need to think again, I’ve not forgotten what full matches were like, maybe your clouded and muddled. 
Just think what a ridiculous statement you made, they easily outscored the rest of the Spanish division except for Madrid twice, almost double the goals of most teams and yet in your words they were the most boring team ever! 
Messi was a genius, a joy to watch.

Edited 12 November 2023 by Mark 'expert' Lawrenson

[SecretPro]

2 hours ago, Scanchez said:

I dunno.

 

I'd say Vardy, Nacho and Daka is one of the strongest in the division.

 

Nacho needs to find form though for sure.

Based on perception maybe, but it's not the current reality.

[Guest Sideshow Faes]

4 minutes ago, Mark 'expert' Lawrenson said:

Haha watching Messi, Iniesta, Xavi Alba etc etc the most boring team ever….you need to think again, I’ve not forgotten what full matches were like, maybe your clouded and muddled. 
Just think what a ridiculous statement you made, they easily outscored the rest of the Spanish division except for Madrid twice, almost double the goals of most teams and yet in your words they were the most boring team ever! 
Messi was a genius, a joy to watch.

Nobody is doubting they were a team of geniuses.

But about 600 passes per game were don't to control possession. It got boring. They were infamous for it.

[Mark 'expert' Lawrenson]

7 minutes ago, Sideshow Faes said:

Nobody is doubting they were a team of geniuses.

But about 600 passes per game were don't to control possession. It got boring. They were infamous for it.

219 games 212 goals for Messi under Pep for “the most boring side ever”😂 

Stop digging yourself a hole mate, they passed with purpose and to break the opposition down. 
 

Ok my last word, you remember the chant boring boring Arsenal? Here’s something to put your comment into perspective-

 

13 March 1993: Coventry 0 Arsenal 2.  After the 11 “Boring Boring” games with neither team scoring more than 1 goal, Arsenal finally get two, one each from Campbell and Wright.

 

Edited 12 November 2023 by Mark 'expert' Lawrenson

[Guest Sideshow Faes]

7 minutes ago, Mark 'expert' Lawrenson said:

219 games 212 goals for Messi under Pep for “the most boring side ever”😂 

Stop digging yourself a hole mate, they passed with purpose and to break the opposition down. 
 

Ok my last word, you remember the chant boring boring Arsenal? Here’s something to put your comment into perspective-

 

13 March 1993: Coventry 0 Arsenal 2.  After the 11 “Boring Boring” games with neither team scoring more than 1 goal, Arsenal finally get two, one each from Campbell and Wright.

 

Mate, are you unable to read? Messi was incredible, the whole team was, they were the best team ever. When they were attacking they were a joy to watch, incredible. 

 

But they spent large periods of matches not playing with purpose. They really did. Tiki-taka was incredibly boring when they knocked out around for 60, 70, 80 passes without going anywhere. 

 

Barcelona defender Samuel umtiti agrees https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.espn.com/soccer/story/_/id/37503301/pep-guardiola-barcelona-were-boring%3fplatform=amp

 

And it was talked about at the time

https://www.google.com/amp/s/syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/1131091-barcelona-are-beyond-plaudits-but-has-brilliant-become-boring-for-blaugrana.amp.html

 

It was a big talking point at the time. After the first couple of years people started recognising it wasn't that exciting a lot of the time. Your memory isn't very good.

[Bazly]

3 hours ago, Lillehamring said:

I see you skilfully avoid considering defending in your 'assessment'.

If Ipswich go up defending the way they do they are much more likely to struggle that if we go up defending the way we do - considering they have conceded twice as many goals as us.

I'm sure if you look at the majority of teams that go up and survive, it's because they can defend rather than they can score. Oddly, despite this lunacy of a thread we can defend AND score goals.

The figures I put out there show that every team, without exception, scores fewer goals per game in the EPL that they achieved as winners of the Championship and the average is almost half the number of goals per game. You don't win games by defending but I'd expect newly promoted teams have a double squeeze of scoring fewer goals whilst shipping more goals. Someone else can go work the goals shipped average.

I happen to think this current side and setup would struggle to achieve much above 38 goals in an EPL season without working out a new way to get from tippy tappy at the back to the back of the net 70 yards ahead past 11 opponents which means looking at ending the season somewhere in the bottom 5.

[adejo92]

3 hours ago, lcfc_forever said:

Yeah, don’t get that - it was four at most yesterday but the general point is sound. 
 

Some of our fans have become so jaded. This was going to take time - Klopp, Guardiola took time to implement their vision. And when you think about our player turnover, it’s incredible to have done so well so quickly. I enjoy watching our play and the best should still be to come when the players get better with more practice. 

But we are spending time implement something that will never work for us in the Premier League.

 

Winks is about the only player in our squad that might, just might, look semi comfortable playing this way in the Premier League.

 

Yes, we'll buy new players, but again, none that would be comfortable playing like this in the Premier League.

[Pliskin]

5 minutes ago, adejo92 said:

But we are spending time implement something that will never work for us in the Premier League.

 

Winks is about the only player in our squad that might, just might, look semi comfortable playing this way in the Premier League.

 

Yes, we'll buy new players, but again, none that would be comfortable playing like this in the Premier League.

This is the major underlying issue…. And I think this is where Enzo’s lack of experience may come to bite him. Burnley are to be used as a prime example…. Look at how they’re struggling and are looking likely to go down. Arteta is somewhat lucky that he’s got money to spend, because Arsenal are tickling the rim of the title, but are still haven’t been able to get close to City. 
 

We’ve got away with it so far largely because of the quality in the squad. We could blow this league apart, but we’re playing for a system, and not to the strengths of the players. 
 

It’s clear they like Enzo and his methods, but the last two games are concerning. I’m not going to jump all over Enzo just yet, but there’s a real unknown about him, and we must be cautious going forward. I can’t help but have this uneasy feeling about this situation, I’m still not confident going into games, and still feel a bit disconnected from the club…. Part of me is concerned this is a false dawn, and the whole thing will just self implode over the coming months. 

[sbfox]

2 hours ago, cropstonfox said:

OK on paper we are decent. But we miss a Matty Elliot or a Muzzy or a Jamie Vardy as we knew him.Dickov or Nugent would walk into this team.But yes compared to the rest of the division we should do well.

Enjoy the rest of the season.

Wait. What? Is this for real? 

[Lillehamring]

1 hour ago, Bazly said:

The figures I put out there show that every team, without exception, scores fewer goals per game in the EPL that they achieved as winners of the Championship and the average is almost half the number of goals per game. You don't win games by defending but I'd expect newly promoted teams have a double squeeze of scoring fewer goals whilst shipping more goals. Someone else can go work the goals shipped average.

I happen to think this current side and setup would struggle to achieve much above 38 goals in an EPL season without working out a new way to get from tippy tappy at the back to the back of the net 70 yards ahead past 11 opponents which means looking at ending the season somewhere in the bottom 5.

That promoted teams score fewer in the PL than the EFL hardly seems like a revelation - but scoring fewer goals doesn't necessarily mean that a team will struggle, that will largely depend on how well they defend.

If we go onto score 87 goals and concede 30 goals (three times the current) and ipswich finish on 108 and 63  - if you take that form into the PL and say for the sake of argument we both score half as many and concede twice as many, we'll finish with F44 A60 GD-16, whilst ipswich would finish with F54 A126 GD-72  - which of these is most likely to be a team who struggle? even at 1.5x as many conceded it gives us: F44 A45 GD-1,  F54 A94 GD-40

 

- i know it's not realistic, but to prove that goals scored really isn't the be all and end all;

It's impossible to predict but Ipswich are very leaky, so, all other things remaining equal,  personally i'd take our strong defence against their (slightly superior) goalscoring

[Lillehamring]

1 hour ago, adejo92 said:

But we are spending time implement something that will never work for us in the Premier League.

You don't know this, it's a system that is very similar to brighton and they are doing just fine with it on a non-big6 budget.

 

Winks is about the only player in our squad that might, just might, look semi comfortable playing this way in the Premier League.

We have numerous players that have already played at PL level

 

Yes, we'll buy new players, but again, none that would be comfortable playing like this in the Premier League.

How do you know this? Why won't we be able to buy players that can pay this way in the PL?

 

[CosbehFox]

I’m not anti the system but I don’t think Brighton is the best example.
 

They had to spend numerous seasons being pretty average and par. Then get the players in and start the season great under Potter before finally moving onto a manager with a system. 
 

But that needed a significant foundation to be built before their current success 

[Tom12345]

We were all on a high with Enzo and as he said we will need time. I have been sounding caution about some of the media or the fans’ over enthusiasm for a while and pointing out that we actually don’t have a second gear built yet. Just some realization of where we are. But there is no need to go all out against Enzo or the team yet. We should encourage and be positive. I hope Enzo will continue to work into the team a winning mentality while we build our second gear. The team will need the fans’ support.

[Oldblueyes]

11 hours ago, lcfc_forever said:

Yeah, don’t get that - it was four at most yesterday but the general point is sound. 
 

Some of our fans have become so jaded. This was going to take time - Klopp, Guardiola took time to implement their vision. And when you think about our player turnover, it’s incredible to have done so well so quickly. I enjoy watching our play and the best should still be to come when the players get better with more practice. 

But they don't, some if not most of our players over the past month, seem to have actually got worse. 

[Chrysalis]

Combination of trying to pass it into the net and players hesitiating too much in the final 3rd.

 

Only KDH and Vardy are decisive in their forward play, but KDH is getting marked heavily now so has very little space, and we have nice cut backs getting played but then players arent getting on the end of them.

 

We seem to be also missing Ndidi who was becoming quite the menace.  Enzo needs to tell internationals they are "injured" during international break.

 

We also seem to over emphasise the passing element of the game.

 

Man City as an example, they dont slowly pass it from the back to the front, they will it out of danger, then they will either run forward with the ball or do direct decisive passes to the final 3rd quickly, and then the whole team shuffles forward and they have pinned the other team back.

 

This is the modern possession game I just described, Brighton do similar.  There is no pure possession game anymore, its a hybrid mix of passing out from the back to get out of danger whilst keeping possession and then direct play to get it forward to score goals.

Edited 13 November 2023 by Chrysalis

[Joe90lcfc]

On 11/11/2023 at 18:01, Sideshow Faes said:

Or every modern manager. Football in general has been like this since guardiola built his Barcelona team - the greatest football team of all time but also the most boring. This is football now I'm afraid. 

Not having that pal, yes Barcelona were the best ever football team to ever play, and probably there will not be a team better, but boring?? No they were not they were a pleasure to watch every player had his purpose!! Your statement is like “he was the nicest serial killer I have met”.

Being the best and most boring just shouldn’t be in the same sentence! Barcelona were far from boring 

[FoxyJim1987]

On 11/11/2023 at 17:14, Ric Flair said:

Piroe has been dog mess

Sssssshhhhhhh Why let facts get in the way of a good narrative. Piroe has 6 League goals, Kelechi has 5.

[FoxyJim1987]

9 hours ago, Pliskin said:

This is the major underlying issue…. And I think this is where Enzo’s lack of experience may come to bite him. Burnley are to be used as a prime example…. Look at how they’re struggling and are looking likely to go down. Arteta is somewhat lucky that he’s got money to spend, because Arsenal are tickling the rim of the title, but are still haven’t been able to get close to City. 
 

We’ve got away with it so far largely because of the quality in the squad. We could blow this league apart, but we’re playing for a system, and not to the strengths of the players. 
 

It’s clear they like Enzo and his methods, but the last two games are concerning. I’m not going to jump all over Enzo just yet, but there’s a real unknown about him, and we must be cautious going forward. I can’t help but have this uneasy feeling about this situation, I’m still not confident going into games, and still feel a bit disconnected from the club…. Part of me is concerned this is a false dawn, and the whole thing will just self implode over the coming months. 

This in a nutshell sums up LCFC fans and probably football fans in general. It's amazing to win games and be top of the league by miles and there's talk of best football I've ever seen and we will be in Europe soon and Enzo will be Peos successor. 2 tight losses against two of the better teams after a 9 game winning run and suddenly it's all going wrong and we will be mid table. 46 games season we were never ever going to just keep on winning. That was a 0-0 all day long, you can't compensate for a 30 yard screamer, or an amazing save from Meslier to deny KDH. We could be sitting here after two draws very happy and no talk of the performances. We need perspective, before the season if you said we'd be top in November with an 8 point gap to third, everyone would be jizzing themselves. It's a long season strap in for the ride and bloody support the team instead of bastard moaning.

Edited 13 November 2023 by FoxyJim1987