Notts F & Everton admit to breaking rules and face points deduction

[Fear Of The Fox]

14 minutes ago, MPH said:

If clubs keep breaking the rules and don't get punished appropriately, then should it be FIFA and the premier league getting sued aswell?

 

 

Maybe that will help them be stricter with the rules.

You're right. The problem is that certain european leagues want to maintain the status quo of "top leagues in the world" and the players/teams must keep a "celebrity/influencers" status so people with a lot of money keep spending, attending and getting involved.

 The whole structure allows lobbying like in politics until the bubble bursts. For a decade and more they were allowing the Russian oligarchs/elitists everywhere, now they're allowing the Saudis/Qataris until they become their enemies for some reason. 

 

[Babylon]

51 minutes ago, Fear Of The Fox said:

A bit confused here. What are you finding hard to believe? The contracts have clauses for promotion/relegation and bonuses achieving certain milestones (goals/assists/promotion etc). Wages will not reverse to pre relegation if our team gets promoted. 

I'm genuinely asking you because I didn't understand your post honestly. 

I find it hard to believe that a contract would not reverse to what it was or, at the very least, that a promotion clause would not be in it to bump it back to what it was (If you want to be technical). And I find it hard to believe that an agent would agree to any such deal without there being a promotion clause because it would be lose/lose on their part. 

Edited 5 January 2024 by Babylon

[Fear Of The Fox]

1 hour ago, Babylon said:

I find it hard to believe that a contract would not reverse to what it was or, at the very least, that a promotion clause would not be in it to bump it back to what it was (If you want to be technical). And I find it hard to believe that an agent would agree to any such deal without there being a promotion clause because it would be lose/lose on their part. 

Yes I understand your point now. We don't have any access to these contracts I believe. From my point of view, as someone who's in the legal sector, the initial relegation clause is stronger. That said, when relegation comes first, because of the inevitable consequences on the company's finances (football club), the wages for next season are automatically adjusted or negotiated and ofc new terms are agreed to a possible next season promotion. 

Keep in mind all of the above is just speculation as I've never dealt with such contracts and football agents as a lawyer. 

[Tuna]

Is there a realistic possibility of them getting a further deduction?

[sylofox]

3 hours ago, MPH said:

If clubs keep breaking the rules and don't get punished appropriately, then should it be FIFA and the premier league getting sued aswell?

 

 

Maybe that will help them be stricter with the rules.

I think if you check the premier league rules you cant sue them if your a member. If you are not a member ie us you can be refused entry.

 

FIFA are the governing body of the game not the law/rules enforcement. Different leagues have different rules on finance.

[urban.spaceman]

10 minutes ago, Tuna said:

Is there a realistic possibility of them getting a further deduction?

If us and Burnley sued them, they would probably be pushed into administration and face an automatic 9 point deduction.

[sylofox]

2 minutes ago, urban.spaceman said:

If us and Burnley sued them, they would probably be pushed into administration and face an automatic 9 point deduction.

If we both do but they don't go into admin what side of the budget would the possible 200m go into. The playing side or infrastructure or just not be taken into account by the premier league and UEFA?

[urban.spaceman]

4 minutes ago, sylofox said:

If we both do but they don't go into admin what side of the budget would the possible 200m go into. The playing side or infrastructure or just not be taken into account by the premier league and UEFA?

Either/or.

 

Their fans are adamant that their cheating was related to them building their stadium (it was transfer and wage spending), so perhaps we should put it towards the stadium expansion we had to delay because they cheated us to build theirs?

[sylofox]

12 minutes ago, sylofox said:

If we both do but they don't go into admin what side of the budget would the possible 200m go into. The playing side or infrastructure or just not be taken into account by the premier league and UEFA?

 

6 minutes ago, urban.spaceman said:

Either/or.

 

Their fans are adamant that their cheating was related to them building their stadium (it was transfer and wage spending), so perhaps we should put it towards the stadium expansion we had to delay because they cheated us to build theirs?

Sorry not very clear I guess.

 

The 200m everton could have to pay would go on what side of there next set off accounts.

 

We can spent it as we want.

[Chrysalis]

On 04/01/2024 at 19:33, coolhandfox said:

Vardy contract runs out this summer.

 

Are you talking about the books for 22/23 or this season?

 

For 22/23 I be surprised if we made a massive loss after banking 80m for Fofana, the fact we weren't looking to sale at the time we sold him, tells me we were within PL FFP.

 

We also sold Maddison early which may have pulled his fee into 22/23 

 

This season  we are under the championship Profitability and Sustainability (P&S) rule and you can only average a 13m loss per year and £35m over a 3 year period, so would be very surprised to see a big loss this year.

 

 

 

 

 

The rules are an average over a 3 year period. not per year.  In recent EPL seasons our losses have been nothing short of a disaster, horrendous figures. (92 million in 2022, new rules allow approx average 35 per season).

 

Circa 106 million prize money last season.  Circa 40 million this season.  Another loss of circa 20 million on sponsorship. So down about 85 million in revenue.  This loss is reduced to 10 million based on transfer fees.  But we did also sign some players so is increased again a bit.

 

Relegation clauses in contracts, exact amount unknown, as well as contracts coming to end mentioned in this thread brings the wage bill down, but it needs to be brought down in excess of 100 million annually from relegation season for sustained FFP compliance.

 

If promoted, our relegation, season, this season, and the first promoted season would perhaps be the first looked at in the EPL.  Between all 3 combined permitted losses would be around 83 million.

Transfer money for sales like Fofana are down a little due to the pay day loan taken out so interest payments reduce the profit.

 

I have seen claims our wage bill this season is 62 million from low quality sources, last reported annual EPL salary costs were a whopping 182m from high quality sources.

 

Would be great if someone could do the wages maths on all the players no longer in contract from start of next season.

Edited 6 January 2024 by Chrysalis

[Chrysalis]

23 hours ago, Babylon said:

I find it hard to believe that a contract would not reverse to what it was or, at the very least, that a promotion clause would not be in it to bump it back to what it was (If you want to be technical). And I find it hard to believe that an agent would agree to any such deal without there being a promotion clause because it would be lose/lose on their part. 

Indeed, the relegation clause will almost certainly be reversed on promotion.

[coolhandfox]

5 hours ago, Chrysalis said:

The rules are an average over a 3 year period. not per year.  In recent EPL seasons our losses have been nothing short of a disaster, horrendous figures. (92 million in 2022, new rules allow approx average 35 per season).

I know.

 

However as we be in the Championship for 1 season (Touch wood) we will be judge by the EFL for 1 season against its P & L rule.

 

I also think it useful to analyse 22/23 independently as its give us an idea along with this season of a forecast  for 24/25 when we go back up.

 

5 hours ago, Chrysalis said:

Circa 106 million prize money last season.  Circa 40 million this season.  Another loss of circa 20 million on sponsorship. So down about 85 million in revenue.  This loss is reduced to 10 million based on transfer fees.  But we did also sign some players so is increased again a bit.

 

Relegation clauses in contracts, exact amount unknown, as well as contracts coming to end mentioned in this thread brings the wage bill down, but it needs to be brought down in excess of 100 million annually from relegation season for sustained FFP compliance.

 

If promoted, our relegation, season, this season, and the first promoted season would perhaps be the first looked at in the EPL.  Between all 3 combined permitted losses would be around 83 million.

Transfer money for sales like Fofana are down a little due to the pay day loan taken out so interest payments reduce the profit.

 

I have seen claims our wage bill this season is 62 million from low quality sources, last reported annual EPL salary costs were a whopping 182m from high quality sources.

 

Would be great if someone could do the wages maths on all the players no longer in contract from start of next season.

I've done the Maths for transfer fee amortisation but far to much guess work on the wages front.

Edited 6 January 2024 by coolhandfox
For Saxondale

[Saxondale]

4 hours ago, coolhandfox said:

I've done the Math for transfer fee amortisation but far too much guess work on the wages front.

s

[KansasFox]

4 hours ago, coolhandfox said:

I know.

 

However as we be in the Championship for 1 season (Touch wood) we will be judge by the EFL for 1 season against its P & L rule.

 

I also think it useful to analyse 22/23 independently as its give us an idea along with this season of a forecast  for 24/25 when we go back up.

 

I've done the Math for transfer fee amortisation but far to much guess work on the wages front.

Not sure I have seen any talk of parachute payments in any revenue discussion... have I just missed that or is there a reason?

[coolhandfox]

37 minutes ago, KansasFox said:

Not sure I have seen any talk of parachute payments in any revenue discussion... have I just missed that or is there a reason?

Nope.

 

We will get a parachute payment as normal.

[Ric Flair]

5 hours ago, Chrysalis said:

Indeed, the relegation clause will almost certainly be reversed on promotion.

Is that confirmed? I'd presumed so but I read somewhere it's unlikely.

[Chrysalis]

6 hours ago, Ric Flair said:

Is that confirmed? I'd presumed so but I read somewhere it's unlikely.

I havent found confirmation, we may get it on promotion.

 

But it would be a very odd contract that, there would be a reduction if playing in a lower division, and then this reduction is perpetual regardless of division.

[Bazly]

The Times has suggested Nottingham Forest could be the next points deducted outfit for FFP break in 2022 with a possible penalty of up to 12 points deducted. Hopefully that'll happen next season.

[FoyleFox]

5 minutes ago, Bazly said:

The Times has suggested Nottingham Forest could be the next points deducted outfit for FFP break in 2022 with a possible penalty of up to 12 points deducted. Hopefully that'll happen next season.

This season would be nice

[coolhandfox]

3 minutes ago, FoyleFox said:

This season would be nice

Next season would be better as it would benefit us if we go up.

[FoyleFox]

1 minute ago, coolhandfox said:

Next season would be better as it would benefit us if we go up.

Fair point, but swapping places would also be nice.

[Sly]

FFP sanctions could get a little tasty. 
 

Manchester City have so many if proved, that they’ll end up in the Championship as well. Unless they just chuck them down a few leagues.

 

Forest, Everton, Leeds, Newcastle and Chelsea. If they all get docked in the same season, if just gives everyone else a head start. 

[coolhandfox]

4 minutes ago, FoyleFox said:

Fair point, but swapping places would also be nice.

Yes it would 

[Sol thewall Bamba]

23 minutes ago, FoyleFox said:

This season would be nice

They'd probably still stay up though.

[RonnieTodger]

It seemed obvious from the outset that Forest will break FFP rules.

 

They sidestepped some obvious pitfalls (free agents and loan deals) but I’d imagine they’ve been offering daft wages.

 

Recouped some on Johnson and I’d imagine Morgan Gibbs-White will fetch some cash too.