Notts F & Everton admit to breaking rules and face points deduction

[Lambert09]

with a decent point deduction for forest, their final game of the season away to burnley could be very spicy 

[Babylon]

2 hours ago, CosbehFox said:

The Overton Window/Discourse argument - legitimate argument that he's agreed transfer fees way over the market value. Alongside some very, very valid criticism to the topic here of LCFC going over the FFP allowance. 

 

If we used the same rationale, we'd have kept managers for years post success. 

 

For the record, I don't think this season should be particularly viewed as any great feat by those above Maresca. We are in an incredibly advantageous situation when arriving in the Championship this season. 

 

 

He doesn’t value the players. I don’t understand why people can’t grasp this. There is a team of people there specially to scout players and judge their worth or not. 
 

Either apportion blame to the people in the roles specially there to do certain jobs. Or if you want to blame the man at the top, you blame… well Top. 
 

There are direct decisions he’s clearly going to have been the one making said decisions, on appointments and sackings and there is valid criticism.

[CosbehFox]

13 minutes ago, Babylon said:

He doesn’t value the players. I don’t understand why people can’t grasp this. There is a team of people there specially to scout players and judge their worth or not. 
 

Either apportion blame to the people in the roles specially there to do certain jobs. Or if you want to blame the man at the top, you blame… well Top. 
 

There are direct decisions he’s clearly going to have been the one making said decisions, on appointments and sackings and there is valid criticism.

Okay I'll go with what you think despite myself being told personally otherwise. 

 

If the case then we aren't running the football club in the correct manner or the standard manner other football clubs do. Scouts can get caught up in their own analysis and their own advice. Extremely dangerous to an extent. 

 

Who's agreeing the wages of new signings and contract renewals? Or whose approving them? Rudkin would still be required for negotiations - it would be appalling if he's going off the word from a scout what is right and what is wrong. The bloke needs to be aware of the going value for a player himself to say that deal is rubbish or when to pull of negotiations.  

 

If his role is sit above them , then he's the quality control and he's failed in that department since the summer of 2021. Alongside a disastrous spell between 2017 and Macia turning up (I have already mentioned when without the guidance of a Head of Recruitment he paid nearly double what he'd been advised on Slimani) .

 

It's a waste of a wage if he's sitting there just being a conduit and waving through information. To be at that level of the hierarchy, there has been a responsibility on him to perform. 

Edited 6 February by CosbehFox

[Chocolate Teapot]

16 hours ago, Babylon said:

He doesn’t value the players. I don’t understand why people can’t grasp this. There is a team of people there specially to scout players and judge their worth or not. 
 

Either apportion blame to the people in the roles specially there to do certain jobs. Or if you want to blame the man at the top, you blame… well Top. 
 

There are direct decisions he’s clearly going to have been the one making said decisions, on appointments and sackings and there is valid criticism.

Can you name any of those people who value the players?

 

Rudkin is charge of buying players and therefore valuing them. He's also in charge of contract negotiation. It's on him as head of the football department.

 

I'm not sure why this is so difficult to understand?

 

According to you he's in charge of absolutely nothing.

 

Edited 7 February by Chocolate Teapot

[Chocolate Teapot]

Here's Rudkin valuing a horse in one of his other side hustles for Top.

[Ric Flair]

44 minutes ago, Babylon said:

He doesn’t value the players. I don’t understand why people can’t grasp this. There is a team of people there specially to scout players and judge their worth or not. 
 

Either apportion blame to the people in the roles specially there to do certain jobs. Or if you want to blame the man at the top, you blame… well Top. 
 

There are direct decisions he’s clearly going to have been the one making said decisions, on appointments and sackings and there is valid criticism.

Hang on, you're telling me a DOF doesn't have any responsibility for the transfer fee that they sign players for? 

 

 

[Ric Flair]

17 minutes ago, Chocolate Teapot said:

Can you name any of those people who value the players?

 

Rudkin is charge of buying players abd therefore valuing them. He's also in charge of contract negotiation. It's on him as head of the football department.

 

I'm not sure why this is so difficult to understand?

 

According to you he's in charge of absolutely nothing.

 

Our total wage bill in the years leading up to our relegation was utterly unforgivable and its the one area that even the most sympathetic of fans towards our directors and board are unable to get around.

 

I personally think the wages and the transfer fees we have paid are directly correlated, we were out of touch and paid way over the odds.

 

Funny we changed Head of Recruitment 3 times in recent years and kept the same DOF but the overspending remained pretty clear.

[st albans fox]

4 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

Hang on, you're telling me a DOF doesn't have any responsibility for the transfer fee that they sign players for? 

 

 

In cases such as Kante, mahrez and ndidi - yes he does. 
for all the other signings where we had our oants pulled down - nothing to do with big John ….

[Chocolate Teapot]

7 minutes ago, st albans fox said:

In cases such as Kante, mahrez and ndidi - yes he does. 
for all the other signings where we had our oants pulled down - nothing to do with big John ….

In the cases of ndidi and kante we just paid the release clauses 🤣🤣🤣

[st albans fox]

3 minutes ago, Chocolate Teapot said:

In the cases of ndidi and kante we just paid the release clauses 🤣🤣🤣

I won’t make the obvious post about us trying to pay extra ……

[Angus Scott]

3 hours ago, urban.spaceman said:

Who's their game in hand against?

I think it's away to Bournemouth that was abandoned due to Lockyear's problems

[Babylon]

58 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

Hang on, you're telling me a DOF doesn't have any responsibility for the transfer fee that they sign players for? 

 

 

Our previous scouts said pretty clearly that the value of the player is decided further down the chain and passed upwards. 

 

Walsh even said in his role of head of recruitment he was the one generally setting up the a large percentage of the deals with the other club.
 

Do you actually think someone hands him the name of a player they want and he just randomly bids whatever he personally thinks they are worth? It’s utterly nonsensical.

Of course he’s involved in the process, but this notion that he’s the one making totally unqualified decisions is frankly just stupid. He’s not paid huge fees for Maddison and Fofana (considering their history) on a whim. He’s done so as those who’ve been tracking them are utterly convinced they will be worth the money. He doesn’t get the credit for them, just like he shouldn’t for bad players who ended up failing and not being worth it. 
 

What he should get blamed for is installing those people in the first place. It took 5 minutes to know Rodgers pick for head of recruitment was likely to be a rubbish one given his record.

 

[Sol thewall Bamba]

1 hour ago, Chocolate Teapot said:

Here's Rudkin valuing a horse in one of his other side hustles for Top.

 

[Babylon]

1 hour ago, Ric Flair said:

Our total wage bill in the years leading up to our relegation was utterly unforgivable and its the one area that even the most sympathetic of fans towards our directors and board are unable to get around.

 

I personally think the wages and the transfer fees we have paid are directly correlated, we were out of touch and paid way over the odds.

 

Funny we changed Head of Recruitment 3 times in recent years and kept the same DOF but the overspending remained pretty clear.

Funny Ric, I don’t seem to remember you moaning about the wage bill when we were chasing top four and buying good players. 

[Ric Flair]

6 minutes ago, Babylon said:

Funny Ric, I don’t seem to remember you moaning about the wage bill when we were chasing top four and buying good players. 

I actually was, I said at the time it was concerning how much it was growing and the impact that might have on future spending. I didn't understand FFP as much back then (don't know that much now) but the losses were growing year on year, we pushed things to the max and have paid the price.

 

Huge mistakes made.

[Ric Flair]

20 minutes ago, Babylon said:

Our previous scouts said pretty clearly that the value of the player is decided further down the chain and passed upwards. 

 

Walsh even said in his role of head of recruitment he was the one generally setting up the a large percentage of the deals with the other club.
 

Do you actually think someone hands him the name of a player they want and he just randomly bids whatever he personally thinks they are worth? It’s utterly nonsensical.

Of course he’s involved in the process, but this notion that he’s the one making totally unqualified decisions is frankly just stupid. He’s not paid huge fees for Maddison and Fofana (considering their history) on a whim. He’s done so as those who’ve been tracking them are utterly convinced they will be worth the money. He doesn’t get the credit for them, just like he shouldn’t for bad players who ended up failing and not being worth it. 
 

What he should get blamed for is installing those people in the first place. It took 5 minutes to know Rodgers pick for head of recruitment was likely to be a rubbish one given his record.

 

None of this explains Rudkin's strategic role as Director of Football who under his watch we've a history of paying too much for players and unable to get the necessary fees or players off our books that we wanted to. Whilst a wage bill spiralling to 85-90% of revenue (105% at its worst due to covid). 

 

Rudkin was responsible for the negotiations, I grant he'd have a team that formed part of this of course but it's his remit to analyse the trend of overpaying, being unable to sell and spiralling costs that contributed to all of that. I'm not convinced that has happened (we continued to overpay on the face of it - questioning and refusal of valuations should have been in place, he should have used his skills to negotiate lower prices perhaps?), and if it has it certainly has rewarded little change.

 

How you defend this abomination that we've gotten ourselves in to with transfers in and out is beyond me. 

[coolhandfox]

Do we need to make every thread a Rudkin discussion.

 

Feel like the last 6m under Rodgers.

[Gamble92]

7 hours ago, Lambert09 said:

with a decent point deduction for forest, their final game of the season away to burnley could be very spicy 

A decent point deduction and they'll be relegated by then

[Babylon]

7 hours ago, Ric Flair said:

None of this explains Rudkin's strategic role as Director of Football who under his watch we've a history of paying too much for players and unable to get the necessary fees or players off our books that we wanted to. Whilst a wage bill spiralling to 85-90% of revenue (105% at its worst due to covid). 

 

Rudkin was responsible for the negotiations, I grant he'd have a team that formed part of this of course but it's his remit to analyse the trend of overpaying, being unable to sell and spiralling costs that contributed to all of that. I'm not convinced that has happened (we continued to overpay on the face of it - questioning and refusal of valuations should have been in place, he should have used his skills to negotiate lower prices perhaps?), and if it has it certainly has rewarded little change.

 

How you defend this abomination that we've gotten ourselves in to with transfers in and out is beyond me. 

There is a lot to unpack here, but I’ll say this at 3am… do you think he sets the budget? Do you think he decides we are ok to lose £80/£90m? Or do you think that comes from the very top?

 

And presuming you, like me you are going to say clearly that’s going to be set and agreed above his pay grade. Can you not see that some of the stuff you are blaming all on him should actually be going up and down the chain a bit also. 
 

As for defending it, I’m defending a certain aspect of it. Where once again, people just want to blame one person for everything.

 

I mean, I literally just said he’s to blame for installing a shit head scout, so it’s pretty clear I don’t think incoming transfers were working.  

 

And as for outgoing transfers. You are just being f****** obtuse at this stage. I’ve posted a huge amount of stuff on this trying to explain the situation we found ourselves in. It’s not defending it, it’s having my eyes open and looking at all the different things at play. And not just bashing RUDKIIIIN into my keyboard as a catch all for anything mildly annoying.

[mozartfox]

Can we please request Babble-on to guest on BSLB, as there are likely many on FT that are doubtless interested into the reasons for his continued support of Rudkin.  I think this would raise listening numbers by a large chunk.

 

To understand how a DoF is not in any way responsible for football matters at our Club is a mystery to many.  So any explanation would by eye-opening.

[1972 Fox]

1 hour ago, mozartfox said:

Can we please request Babble-on to guest on BSLB, as there are likely many on FT that are doubtless interested into the reasons for his continued support of Rudkin.  I think this would raise listening numbers by a large chunk.

 

To understand how a DoF is not in any way responsible for football matters at our Club is a mystery to many.  So any explanation would by eye-opening.

I think it's fair to say that @Babylon does not like to admit that he could be wrong and it's quite clear that he always likes to have the last word in any debate/argument.

 

He is entrenched with his opinions in defending Rudkin and it's doubtful that he will concede any ground.

 

Edited 7 February by 1972 Fox

[Dahnsouff]

I tend to seem some sense in  @Babylon last post (cannot comment on other posts, he is way too active. ) but he clearly states a point with nuance, where as much as he is saying not everything must be Rudkin’s fault (the tendency to demand a single person to hold all the blame on here blows my mind) he also states he is culpable in part, maybe large part, just not in its entirety.

Edited 7 February by Dahnsouff

[mozartfox]

1 hour ago, Dahnsouff said:

I tend to seem some sense in  @Babylon last post (cannot comment on other posts, he is way too active. ) but he clearly states a point with nuance, where as much as he is saying not everything must be Rudkin’s fault (the tendency to demand a single person to hold all the blame on here blows my mind) he also states he is culpable in part, maybe large part, just not in its entirety.

With most major positions in large corporations, the person employed at the very top normally takes responsibility for the results, both good and bad - in the case of LCFC this must include the DoF.   So in this case, is Rudkin a lap dog just doing what he is told?  Of course, we do not know the answer to this, but on the evidence of how of the Club has been run recently (prior to this season) and looking at FFP issues, there have been some major decision making failures which cannot all be down to the Owners , or else why employ senior officials?

 

Unfortunately the lack of engagement by the Club is not helpful.  Thank God we have the Foxes Trust.

[Dahnsouff]

Just now, mozartfox said:

With most major positions in large corporations, the person employed at the very top normally takes responsibility for the results, both good and bad - in the case of LCFC this must include the DoF.   So in this case, is Rudkin a lap dog just doing what he is told?  Of course, we do not know the answer to this, but on the evidence of how of the Club has been run recently (prior to this season) and looking at FFP issues, there have been some major decision making failures which cannot all be down to the Owners , or else why employ senior officials?

 

Unfortunately the lack of engagement by the Club is not helpful.  Thank God we have the Foxes Trust.

Of course, the buck stops as the saying goes, therefore Rudkin has a significant portion of the blame to hold, but the buck would not stop there ultimately, as many seem to suggest.

[Daggers]

16 hours ago, Babylon said:

Ok... lets play this game. 

 

Hermansen, Doyle, Winks, Mavadidi, Fatal, Cannon, Maresca, top of the league smashing all records... RUDKIN MASTERCLASS. 

Kante, Maddison, Ricardo, Winning the league, winning the FA Cup, two top 5 finishes... RUDKIN MASTERCLASS. 

 

Or we just blaming him when things go wrong, and giving others credit when things go right. Just to clarify.

(Rodgers’ belt value/Rudkin job number)/contracts’ duration^contracts’ value = S

 

*where S represents shitshow quotient

 

Proof, if anymore were needed, that Schrödinger's Rudkin can be blamed for everything wrong at the club while occasionally getting some things correct but ultimately being a force for evil.