Notts F & Everton admit to breaking rules and face points deduction

[goose2010]

3 minutes ago, goose2010 said:

Imagine they are banking on selling Ramsey. 

 

Although I think there is still so many rumours flying around about clubs struggling etc. that probably aren't as close to breach as it's made out to be. Plus if they get in the champs league imagine a lot of these issues go away. 

Man City getting 25% of this too. 

[Lambert09]

36 minutes ago, UniFox21 said:

Villa rumoured to be in trouble, but then bidding £15m+  (£15m was rejected last time) for someone. 

 

 

this is such an odd move. Both Archer and Ramsey were similarly rated and villa sold both because of ffp. Seems an odd move to make. 

 

My guess is that they are going to flog durran for more and are just swapping out the young talent. 

[Guest Basildon Fox]

Just now, Les-TA-Jon said:

I'm no fan of the Big 6/7 but this 'whataboutism' with Chelsea and Man City is getting a bit tired. They're simply a different situation. 

 

Man City's 115 charges have nothing to do with the current PL PSR thing. Never mind the huge complexity of that case + the deliberate non-cooperation from Man City. 

Chelsea amortised - but not in a unique way - any other club could have done the same. The PL have since voted to cap it at 5 years max. And Chelsea have made a lot of 'profit' by selling academy products. 

 

 

But this is exactly the point.  They keep harping on about the complexities of the case for Man City without actually doing anything about it and Man City just keep laughing in their face and refusing to co-operate.  Complexities my arse! They are scared to tackle the super powers of football.

[Les-TA-Jon]

Just now, Basildon Fox said:

But this is exactly the point.  They keep harping on about the complexities of the case for Man City without actually doing anything about it and Man City just keep laughing in their face and refusing to co-operate.  Complexities my arse! They are scared to tackle the super powers of football.

But that wasn't your point. You said 'why have Everton and Forest been charged and gotten points deductions but Man City haven't'

 

They haven't because its a demonstrably different and more complex case. 

 

Do I think it's a good thing Man City haven't been punished yet? No. But it's clearly not going to be a quick and simple thing.

[urban.spaceman]

15 minutes ago, Basildon Fox said:

But this is exactly the point.  They keep harping on about the complexities of the case for Man City without actually doing anything about it and Man City just keep laughing in their face and refusing to co-operate.  Complexities my arse! They are scared to tackle the super powers of football.

 

13 minutes ago, Les-TA-Jon said:

But that wasn't your point. You said 'why have Everton and Forest been charged and gotten points deductions but Man City haven't'

 

They haven't because its a demonstrably different and more complex case. 

 

Do I think it's a good thing Man City haven't been punished yet? No. But it's clearly not going to be a quick and simple thing.

The Man City case is complex enough but you have to remember that this investigation (the PL's 115 charges) started in 2018, before the second UEFA ruling and the CAS overturning it, and it wasn't until 2021 that the media were even allowed to report on it. Man City's owner is on record (in the Der Spiegel article) stating that he would rather spend £50m on lawyers to sue UEFA than pay a £30m fine, and that's pretty much what they've done. They've flooded UEFA and the Premier League with litigation on practically every single letter of every word spoken between them, at every stage. That's why it's taking so long - they're forcing the authorities into a war of attrition because a) they have limitless resources whereas the authorities don't; b) the longer this goes on, the more trophies Man City will win, the more they get out of their players and the more they can set themselves up to recover more easily from their inevitable expulsion; and c) they ****ing can.

 

Man City WILL be punished, and it will be epoch-defining for the Premier League. But it's going to take a very, very long time. 

[Les-TA-Jon]

8 minutes ago, urban.spaceman said:

 

The Man City case is complex enough but you have to remember that this investigation (the PL's 115 charges) started in 2018, before the second UEFA ruling and the CAS overturning it, and it wasn't until 2021 that the media were even allowed to report on it. Man City's owner is on record (in the Der Spiegel article) stating that he would rather spend £50m on lawyers to sue UEFA than pay a £30m fine, and that's pretty much what they've done. They've flooded UEFA and the Premier League with litigation on practically every single letter of every word spoken between them, at every stage. That's why it's taking so long - they're forcing the authorities into a war of attrition because a) they have limitless resources whereas the authorities don't; b) the longer this goes on, the more trophies Man City will win, the more they get out of their players and the more they can set themselves up to recover more easily from their inevitable expulsion; and c) they ****ing can.

 

Man City WILL be punished, and it will be epoch-defining for the Premier League. But it's going to take a very, very long time. 

Yes totally agree - hence the whataboutism and comparing them to the Everton and Forest cases is Apples and Oranges

[Guest Basildon Fox]

49 minutes ago, Les-TA-Jon said:

But that wasn't your point. You said 'why have Everton and Forest been charged and gotten points deductions but Man City haven't'

 

They haven't because its a demonstrably different and more complex case. 

 

Do I think it's a good thing Man City haven't been punished yet? No. But it's clearly not going to be a quick and simple thing.

Yes it was my point.  They are making excuses why these 'super clubs' have not been punished yet while saying to everyone else - You step out of line and we will penalise you.  All the while Man City are laughing at the rules because quite obviously they think it does not apply to them. 

 

I am sure they will have breached at any point in the last 3 years.  Do them for that and then figure the rest out at a later stage but they won't and nothing will ever come of it.

Edited 30 January 2024 by Basildon Fox

[urban.spaceman]

3 hours ago, MPH said:

 

 

Seriously though... if Forest have failed FFP as spectacularly as  i think they have, then its a very real possibility that we will have a greater case to sue them than we do Everton. Although it could be argued we have a right to sue both.   ( ask @urban.spaceman about it sometime ). 

 

 

We then are faced with the very real  possibility that by us suing them, it could send them into administration.  Our actions can directly affect their future.

Personally I'm not that bothered about Forest; for me, Everton should be the main target - 1. they've broken the rules over several seasons and it has directly harmed us over those seasons. 2. they've stunk up the Premier League for pretty much all of its existence and should have gone down more than a decade ago. And 3. The meltdown from their fans would be absolutely ****ing wonderful.

 

They shouldn't just get to waltz into their new stadium without any consequence. I want them hamstrung by these rule breaks for decades to come.

[urban.spaceman]

1 hour ago, Les-TA-Jon said:

Yes totally agree - hence the whataboutism and comparing them to the Everton and Forest cases is Apples and Oranges

They're being defensive - they're pointing the finger, making false claims about not gaining a sporting advantage, falsely claiming the overspend was on the stadium etc - and I get it, but they don't have a ****ing leg to stand on. It's a distraction tactic. **** em.

[MPH]

2 minutes ago, urban.spaceman said:

Personally I'm not that bothered about Forest; for me, Everton should be the main target - 1. they've broken the rules over several seasons and it has directly harmed us over those seasons. 2. they've stunk up the Premier League for pretty much all of its existence and should have gone down more than a decade ago. And 3. The meltdown from their fans would be absolutely ****ing wonderful.

 

They shouldn't just get to waltz into their new stadium without any consequence. I want them hamstrung by these rule breaks for decades to come.

[Sly]

Whatever happens with Man City will cause shockwaves through the game, be it good or bad (from a Manchester City point of view). 
 

If they don’t face any charges, FFP and financial doping becomes a farce and I’d argue lots of clubs would then legally challenge the points deductions and trimming of the wage bill etc that has been forced upon them.

 

If they face charges, Man City will drag it out but could be relegated from the league etc. Can you imagine that squad in the Championship? Never mind league 1 or 2! It would be unfair on the rest of the football pyramid.

 

If they get banned from Europe, stripped of titles or the champions league title, then you could see a mass exodus. 

[fox in the sox]

Isn’t the end of this season going to be a farce if Everton and Forest are appealing points deductions?

[Thefox81]

19 minutes ago, fox in the sox said:

Isn’t the end of this season going to be a farce if Everton and Forest are appealing points deductions?

Without a doubt. Theyll play it out and take it to the court of atribution of sport if need be. Its going to get very messy i think.

[Chrysalis]

13 hours ago, dmayne7 said:

I'm talking about pre that. First year they went down they had a net spend of £40m+ and that was 8 years ago, and not a drastic fall like us so not previous European revenue to boost it. It was obscene money at the time for a championship club and it then took them 3 years to get promoted. Net spend of probably £150m when they came up which is again ridiculous.

 

And according to transfermarkt (which I don't completely trust for accuracy), they still lost money in that Grealish year (realise that won't be the case for accounting purposes) and have a net spend of over £300m in the past 5 years. If that's true, there's no way a club that size can't be breaking Financial rules. 

They can be when the CEO/Chair is good at their job.  If I remember right they had a smaller wage bill than us.  They also have been capable of getting rid of their dead wood and renewing contracts, something we have failed at miserably.

Edited 30 January 2024 by Chrysalis

[Chrysalis]

8 hours ago, urban.spaceman said:

 

The Man City case is complex enough but you have to remember that this investigation (the PL's 115 charges) started in 2018, before the second UEFA ruling and the CAS overturning it, and it wasn't until 2021 that the media were even allowed to report on it. Man City's owner is on record (in the Der Spiegel article) stating that he would rather spend £50m on lawyers to sue UEFA than pay a £30m fine, and that's pretty much what they've done. They've flooded UEFA and the Premier League with litigation on practically every single letter of every word spoken between them, at every stage. That's why it's taking so long - they're forcing the authorities into a war of attrition because a) they have limitless resources whereas the authorities don't; b) the longer this goes on, the more trophies Man City will win, the more they get out of their players and the more they can set themselves up to recover more easily from their inevitable expulsion; and c) they ****ing can.

 

Man City WILL be punished, and it will be epoch-defining for the Premier League. But it's going to take a very, very long time. 

Is there a reason all the charges need to be dealt with all as one action, instead of dealing with each one individually?

[urban.spaceman]

5 minutes ago, Chrysalis said:

Is there a reason all the charges need to be dealt with all as one action, instead of dealing with each one individually?

What Man City have been doing for 15+ years is industrial. The 115 charges only go up to 2018, when they started the investigation; I'll bet my hat (and I ****ing love my hat) that that number is less than half of the number of charges the PL wanted to bring. Man City have been so uncooperative, disruptive and obfuscating that the Premier League is most likely to have concentrated their time on what they know they can charge Man City with, what they can firmly prove and what Man City can't defend.

[urban.spaceman]

1 hour ago, fox in the sox said:

Isn’t the end of this season going to be a farce if Everton and Forest are appealing points deductions?

 

1 hour ago, Thefox81 said:

Without a doubt. Theyll play it out and take it to the court of atribution of sport if need be. Its going to get very messy i think.

Absolute best case scenario is if Everton get relegated by more than 10 points.

 

I will piss myself.

[Foxin_Mad]

Hopefully Forest go down too, they are absolutely dogshit, awful football side. Best case scenario is 2 promoted sides stay up, those 2 go down. Probably helps us to as the standard down the bottom this year is honking, I feel the top 4 in the Championship are all better than up to Palace in the Prem. 

[CosbehFox]

8 hours ago, Thefox81 said:

Without a doubt. Theyll play it out and take it to the court of atribution of sport if need be. It’s going to get very messy i think.

Can’t be applied to CAS, apparently the clubs signed up to that in their charter 

[Trent Steel]

17 hours ago, Foxin_Mad said:

Hopefully Forest go down too, they are absolutely dogshit, awful football side. Best case scenario is 2 promoted sides stay up, those 2 go down. Probably helps us to as the standard down the bottom this year is honking, I feel the top 4 in the Championship are all better than up to Palace in the Prem. 

Yeah I do too, they are dogshit and most of their fans still think Cloughie's still in charge and its 1980 also the shipstone brewery is still in full force in basford

 

hopefully will lose their next 2 and people around them win and then they get a 9-12 points deduction and dont recover from it

Edited 31 January 2024 by Trent Steel

[Lionator]

Do Forest simply not care? 4 more deadline day signings for them.

[Chelmofox]

11 minutes ago, Lionator said:

Do Forest simply not care? 4 more deadline day signings for them.

Presume the Johnson sale has meant they are ok. 

[adam]

Another 5 million spent by notts forest. I hope they go bust.

[CosbehFox]

3 hours ago, Lionator said:

Do Forest simply not care? 4 more deadline day signings for them.

Managed to flog 11 though - with a couple more off to Turkey in next few days. 
 

Errr….while at Leicester….

[Jobyfox]

It occurs to me that the best approach to transfer windows is probably somewhere between Nottingham Forest’s and ours ….