Leicester 'could face points deduction next season'

[surrifox]

1 hour ago, UniFox21 said:

You basically decide if you're going to comply and massively struggle.

Or compete, fail PSR and get a point deduction 

Or feck things up so badly that the players you’ve been overpaying leave for nothing , you lose a fortune , get relegated and still get a points deduction 

[STEVIE B]

2 hours ago, MrSpaM said:

They said on TalkSport last night that they understand 80% of Premier League teams are currently under investigation over breaches of profit and sustainability rules

So that leaves 4 clubs not under the microscope. My guess :

Liverpool, Arsenal, Man Utd + 1 other of the  media darlings. Spurs ? 

[fox_up_north]

Spurs actually seem reasonably well run

[Guest leatherhead32]

2 minutes ago, fox_up_north said:

Spurs actually seem reasonably well run

thats perspective 4u f.u.n like it

[adamkhalifa]

We breeched the rules, whichever way my limited brain understands. 

 

I don't care about the other teams getting away with it. We should be staying in lane.

 

I think it's time for a reshuffle. Top isn't going to sack himself as chairman, but others need to be shifted. Its been poor for 3/4 years. 

[Ric Flair]

1 hour ago, ClaphamFox said:

It's worth pointing out for the sake of clarity that the £92.5m loss was our headline financial loss, not our PSR loss for that season. Our PSR loss for 2021/22 will have been less than £92.5m but still very high so your point still stands, but mentioning a headline accounting loss in the same sentence as referring to the £105m loss allowed under PSR is potentially misleading.

 

If the PSR system continues, next season will mark the first three-year period in which we won't have the millstone of 2021/22 around our necks. But in truth this is probably academic as I don't expect the PSR system to be retained beyond this season.

Pretty sure we only had a £10m headline loss to not breach the £105m three year PSR limit. So the £92.5m less deductibles must still have been monumental.

[OntarioFox]

46 minutes ago, surrifox said:

Or feck things up so badly that the players you’ve been overpaying leave for nothing , you lose a fortune , get relegated and still get a points deduction 

This is it.

 

You can disagree with the PSR all you like, and it's absolutely no coincidence that things are going tits-up for a lot of teams after the huge hit the pandemic took, but so, so much of our financial downfall has been self-inflicted.

 

We decided the way to compete consistently with the 'Big 6' was A) to hand out ridiculous contracts to both players and THAT manager to stop them getting poached, and B) to quite ignorantly assume that our squad was good enough to keep maintaining European football finishes for the foreseeable future, with the prize money it brings.

 

The result was an appallingly bloated squad with a number of players who were impossible to shift at the prices we wanted (Soumare, Ward, Tielemans, even Iheanacho being prime examples). We let some go on frees which killed our model of selling prize assets, while others continue to rot away our cash reserves despite either being out on loan or sat gathering dust in our reserves.

 

While all this was going on, a manager who was clearly destroying all the good work we'd spent 6-7 years in the top flight building - admittedly partially under the first two years of his tenure - was impossible to shift because we'd written an absurd payoff clause into his contract. Our ownership was shown up as weak and unwilling to address the iceberg heading towards us until it had already made a huge gash in our hull.

 

Our last throw of the 'sell a prized asset to balance the books' dice in Maddison, which we were all expecting regardless of the outcome of  the 22-23 season, was scuppered by our vulnerability after our self-inflicted relegation and the consensus is that he went for £20-25 million below market value.

 

And now we reach the endgame. We've somehow kept the spine of our squad together, but find ourselves on manoeuvres to prevent both the league we're in, and the one we aspire to be back in, from picking our carcass and sending us into irreparable freefall.

 

There are so many points over the past three years you can highlight when our ownership systematically failed to address the elephant in the room - that our entire model post-title win has been built on an unsustainable and naive belief that we are a club capable of continuing to play the disruptor of the big 6 cartel, and one that is secure enough to do so despite only finishing in the top 6 three times in 9 attempts.

 

I would be an absolute hypocrite to sit here, having enjoyed Everton and Forest's struggles over the past year or two, while not holding my hands up and accepting that our own club has been absolutely bloody deluded in its own financial approach, which seems to have been based almost entirely on naive, wishful thinking and an assumption that our top-8 position was going to be a permanent one going forwards. Our fate was sealed more or less from the day we bottled Champions League footy for the second time.

Edited 22 March 2024 by OntarioFox
I didn't even mention the MacQuarie loans. We're absolutely cooked. Cheers Brendan, cheers Rudkin, cheers Susan, cheers Top.

[Terraloon]

1 hour ago, Bert said:

Chelsea were handed a transfer embargo werent they? 

That was a FIFA matter nothing to do with spending, FFP or the PL equivalent 

[The Doctor]

31 minutes ago, westernpark said:

Why though did we take out the loans against future payments?

to try and give us money to spend by altering cash flow.

[Blackstarr]

21 minutes ago, surrifox said:

Or feck things up so badly that the players you’ve been overpaying leave for nothing , you lose a fortune , get relegated and still get a points deduction 

This. Let’s not pretend there wasn’t another option here. There absolutely was. We broke our model, sailed far too close to the wind and mismanaged our final season under Rodgers by allowing him to send us down. This is firmly on the club. Look at Brighton as an example of how to stay within the rules and build sustainably

[ClaphamFox]

9 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

Pretty sure we only had a £10m headline loss to not breach the £105m three year PSR limit. So the £92.5m less deductibles must still have been monumental.

Well quite. And until we see the actual figures I will remain deeply nervous that our loss for 2021/22 will put our breach at a level above Everton's and Forest's and potentially result in a harsher penalty.

[filbertway]

Didn't take us long to turn into Everton fans. Just waiting for the pink cards to come out

 

[5waller5]

2 hours ago, ALC Fox said:

One thing I've yet to grasp conclusively about this is are there set three-year periods or are the three-year periods rolling year-to-year?

 

For example, if there is a period including 21/22, 22/23 and 23/24, would the the next period be:

 

(a) 24/25, 25/26, 26/27

(b) 22/23, 23/24, 24/25

B - it’s a rolling 3 year period

[Terraloon]

What is hurting and hurting not just Leicester is the fact that a lot of the clubs that seem to be in the mire will have advanced cash flow by way of loans from commercial lenders 

These lenders don’t just advance a pound or two it’s tens if not hundreds of millions. The rates they charge are circa 4-6% above base rate of 5.25%. Everton for instance borrowed £150 million  from just one lender to fund working capital and not stadium build costs in effect with a turnover of around about £180 million they will for that just loan circa  £15 million pa then add to that other loans they have at one of their supporters quantified their interest costs alone at £42 million a year.

Not sure of the extent but there are 10 charges registered by Macquarie Bank shown against Leicester by this company  but let’s just assume it matches the same £ as Everton’s.

Edited 22 March 2024 by Terraloon

[Dames]

If Rudkin hadn’t been high on his own smug and didnt reject offers for our dross we likely wouldnt be in this position.

 

Yet the man still remains in post. A complete and utter farce.

[OntarioFox]

This season is starting to give me heavy Micky Adams 2002-03 vibes. Which is ominous considering the 5 years that followed.

 

8 minutes ago, filbertway said:

Didn't take us long to turn into Everton fans. Just waiting for the pink cards to come out

 

Let's please not. If there's one common theme I've felt from our fanbase since this all came out in the washing, it's that rather than playing the eternal victim we're fully aware that this is our club's mismanagement of the past 3-7 years (depending on who you ask) coming home to roost.

PSR / FFP is a horrifically skewed system, but if nothing else it's finally showing the wider public that we're not all just blindly clapping Top and the board and content to descend into freefall just because we get a free beer or coconut every now and again. It's a rare moment where those criticising the hierarchy are absolutely within their rights to say "I told you so". 

Edited 22 March 2024 by OntarioFox

[st albans fox]

24 minutes ago, filbertway said:

Didn't take us long to turn into Everton fans. Just waiting for the pink cards to come out

 

I will be seeing an Evertonian mate of mine later

he's been crying about their points deduction from day 1

I shall take the moral high ground - break the rules and take your medicine 

 

 

[lcfcbluearmy]

3 hours ago, Bert said:

If we go up, and we get hit with points I’m not sure why we’d need to sell players. We’d already have the sanction and would be at the start of a new 3 year cycle. 

We wouldn't be at the start of a new 3 year cycle that's not how it works unfortunately.

 

The current period is 21-23 in which our financial results were

21: -31.2 m

22: -92.5 m

23: released at the end of March

 

We have been charged with losing more than £105 million in these 3 years which means we have made less than a £ 18.7 m profit this season

 

The next period that ends next march will include 22, 23 and 24 and one of these seasons was in the championship so we are only allowed to lose £85 million over this period rather than £105 million. Seeing as we lost 92.5 million in 22 we would need to make a profit of 7.5 m over these 2 seasons to be compliant and not be charged further in march next year

 

 

 

Edit: the numbers I have quoted were the headline figures actual PSR accounted loss will be less due to allowable losses e.g. infrastructure and youth. However it likely won't be much different

Edited 22 March 2024 by lcfcbluearmy

[urban.spaceman]

“The whole game is absolutely fudged”

 

[Le Renard]

17 minutes ago, Dames said:

If Rudkin hadn’t been high on his own smug and didnt reject offers for our dross we likely wouldnt be in this position.

 

Yet the man still remains in post. A complete and utter farce.

I suspect it was his faith in Rodgers and sheer hubris that cost us.  I remember Rodgers saying that we need to kick on after the FA Cup win and stop becoming a selling club, we all know what happened next.....a 'Greek tragedy'.

[lcfcbluearmy]

2 hours ago, ALC Fox said:

One thing I've yet to grasp conclusively about this is are there set three-year periods or are the three-year periods rolling year-to-year?

 

For example, if there is a period including 21/22, 22/23 and 23/24, would the the next period be:

 

(a) 24/25, 25/26, 26/27

(b) 22/23, 23/24, 24/25

The period that we have been charged for is 21-23, next year's period is 22-24 etc. You don't start a whole new 3 years

[Footballwipe]

17 minutes ago, OntarioFox said:

This season is starting to give me heavy Micky Adams 2002-03 vibes. Which is ominous considering the 5 years that followed.

 

Let's please not. If there's one common theme I've felt from our fanbase since this all came out in the washing, it's that rather than playing the eternal victim we're fully aware that this is our club's mismanagement of the past 3-7 years (depending on who you ask) coming home to roost.

PSR / FFP is a horrifically skewed system, but if nothing else it's finally showing the wider public that we're not all just blindly clapping Top and the board and content to descend into freefall just because we get a free beer or coconut every now and again. It's a rare moment where those criticising the hierarchy are absolutely within their rights to say "I told you so". 

This was inevitable, though. The comments and posts we've had around how Forest and Everton fans have been bitter and crying, and then it turns on us and we're wailing into the abyss, it was so predictable.

 

It was 2013 but 19/20 clubs voted this through. All it takes is 14/20 to scrap these rules. The Premier League are enforcing something their members voted through. Maybe it should've been revised earlier, but the critical thing is that these rules have not been a surprise to us. Clubs like Wolves have bust their arse to comply with them and we, along with other clubs, have just mismanaged our way spraying money about like it's confetti.

 

I'm so sick and tired of clubs not complying with rules that knew were in place crying victim every time they're charged. Get the fvck together and propose a change or scrapping of these rules at a PL meeting. Get organised. 14/20 kills it in its current format. That's all it takes. It's not come Richard Masters overlord nonsense, it's member clubs crying because of the rules member clubs voted in.

 

We've been utter idiots and we're paying the price. We knew these rules and restrictions were in force, why weren't we more fiscally responsible? Why weren't we more prudent, cleverer, wiser in the transfer market. It just emphasises how hugely we have ruined the one incredible opportunity we were gifted in 2016.

[Ric Flair]

28 minutes ago, Dames said:

If Rudkin hadn’t been high on his own smug and didnt reject offers for our dross we likely wouldnt be in this position.

 

Yet the man still remains in post. A complete and utter farce.

Only if he rejected offers for players that were above what was left on the book value of such players, otherwise it would have been a loss and increased our defecit.

 

[Twitcher]

Really strange that those who must have been in the know, were suggesting we'd pursue legal action against Everton. If ever there was a moment to keep quiet, that was surely it. Now just more egg on face.

[Saxondale]

A lot of people banging on an out Rudkin again in this thread, without any knowledge whatsoever about how the club is run at that level. 
 

I have no opinion about Rudkin, but I think it’s ridiculous that he seems to be the focus of so much criticism. 
 

Tiresome jokes about Rudkin faxing off copies of the accounts - it’s as unfunny as it is misdirected.
 

If you absolutely need to gun for a senior exec, this sounds like the Finance Director’s remit.