General News

[leicsmac]

But in other news, some good old fashioned corruption from the other side of the world:

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cjr41499pdlo

 

South Korea’s president has apologised for a string of controversies surrounding his wife that included allegedly accepting a luxury Dior handbag and stock manipulation.

[South Shire Fox]

Amsterdam 2024.. Scum of the earth. This sort of thing is only going to get worse in Europe 

[ealingfox]

3 minutes ago, South Shire Fox said:

Amsterdam 2024.. Scum of the earth. This sort of thing is only going to get worse in Europe 

 

It kicked off massively between Ajax and Maccabi Tel Aviv fans last night, nearly 60 arrests. Good chance this is related to that.

[st albans fox]

29 minutes ago, South Shire Fox said:

Amsterdam 2024.. Scum of the earth. This sort of thing is only going to get worse in Europe 

Predictable 

and next week France are playing at home to israel

 

Are we approaching the point where uefa have to accept that that  Israel should be excluded from their competitions for safety reasons? 
 

24 minutes ago, ealingfox said:

 

It kicked off massively between Ajax and Maccabi Tel Aviv fans last night, nearly 60 arrests. Good chance this is related to that.

It shouldn’t have - Ajax has a strong pro Jewish history. 
Pre game, some Israeli fans were being insulting with  anti Arab/palestinian songs (not a surprise) and some fans apparently tore down a Palestinian flag (note that they are football fans).

 

 this appeared on social media and after the game, there were many groups wandering the streets looking for Israeli fans to attack - but this became ‘are you Jewish’ rather than. ‘Are you Israeli’.  I’ve seen videos where people were beaten up on the basis of whether they were willing to say ‘free Palestine’.

 

there were expectations that  Israeli fans would be targeted - it was stupid for them to wander around after the game in small groups rather than making sure that they got back to their hotel rooms quickly.  It was either naive or foolhardy. Of course this shouldn’t be the case but you have to live in the real world.  
 

 

 

 

 

Edited 8 November 2024 by st albans fox

[SemperEadem]

3 hours ago, ealingfox said:

 

It kicked off massively between Ajax and Maccabi Tel Aviv fans last night, nearly 60 arrests. Good chance this is related to that.

Im not sure it was with Ajax fans.

[bovril]

10 minutes ago, SemperEadem said:

Im not sure it was with Ajax fans.

Quite common to see the Star of David at Ajax games no? Or at least it was. 

[st albans fox]

13 minutes ago, SemperEadem said:

Im not sure it was with Ajax fans.

Doesn’t seem to have been 
 

1 minute ago, bovril said:

Quite common to see the Star of David at Ajax games no? Or at least it was. 

Correct - bit like spurs here 

[Daggers]

No point worrying or getting vexed about anything, the monkeys are taking over - Planet of the Apes has begun.

 

 

[lfu]

4 hours ago, st albans fox said:

Predictable 

and next week France are playing at home to israel

 

Are we approaching the point where uefa have to accept that that  Israel should be excluded from their competitions for safety reasons? 
 

It shouldn’t have - Ajax has a strong pro Jewish history. 
Pre game, some Israeli fans were being insulting with  anti Arab/palestinian songs (not a surprise) and some fans apparently tore down a Palestinian flag (note that they are football fans).

 

 this appeared on social media and after the game, there were many groups wandering the streets looking for Israeli fans to attack - but this became ‘are you Jewish’ rather than. ‘Are you Israeli’.  I’ve seen videos where people were beaten up on the basis of whether they were willing to say ‘free Palestine’.

 

there were expectations that  Israeli fans would be targeted - it was stupid for them to wander around after the game in small groups rather than making sure that they got back to their hotel rooms quickly.  It was either naive or foolhardy. Of course this shouldn’t be the case but you have to live in the real world.  
 

 

 

 

 

Maccabi fans also attacked a taxi driver before the match
 

TBH Maccabi are known for having an extremist right wing fanbase and violent ultras/hooligans as well. Stupid decision not to move the match to a neutral venue and/or have it behind closed doors or at least without away fans

[SemperEadem]

49 minutes ago, lfu said:

Maccabi fans also attacked a taxi driver before the match
 

TBH Maccabi are known for having an extremist right wing fanbase and violent ultras/hooligans as well. Stupid decision not to move the match to a neutral venue and/or have it behind closed doors or at least without away fans

Especially after their behaviour in the previous round where they attacked Pro Palestine protests.

Edited 8 November 2024 by SemperEadem

[lfu]

2 minutes ago, SemperEadem said:

Especially after their behaviour in the previous round where they attached Pro Palestine protests.

Yeah, there's no doubt that the groups in Amsterdam looking for Israelis (or Jews, seeing as that's what it seemed to devolve into at some point) to attack were seeking "payback" for the Egyptian man Maccabi hooligans attacked in Athens

[bmt]

5 minutes ago, lfu said:

Yeah, there's no doubt that the groups in Amsterdam looking for Israelis (or Jews, seeing as that's what it seemed to devolve into at some point) to attack were seeking "payback" for the Egyptian man Maccabi hooligans attacked in Athens

Ah shit, here we go again

[AjcW]

4 hours ago, st albans fox said:

Are we approaching the point where uefa have to accept that that  Israel should be excluded from their competitions for safety reasons? 

 

Banned or just.... i dunno... removed because they shouldn't be in the competitions in the first place?*

 

 

*before anyone bites me I share the same sentiment about teams from Russia... Azerbaijan... etc etc 

[st albans fox]

16 minutes ago, lfu said:

Yeah, there's no doubt that the groups in Amsterdam looking for Israelis (or Jews, seeing as that's what it seemed to devolve into at some point) to attack were seeking "payback" for the Egyptian man Maccabi hooligans attacked in Athens

How are the authorities so ignorant?  They must have known this was possible 

 

I just heard a press conference where Amsterdam police are framing the trouble as football fans fighting.  
Thats nothing new and it wouldn’t make news 

 

what happened last night (and also in Athens) wasn’t to do with football. 

[RoboFox]

@leicsmac you might want to put me on ignore, if you haven't already. 

 

COP29 chief exec filmed promoting fossil fuel deals

 

You can't make this shit up. 

 

Edited 8 November 2024 by RoboFox

[Lionator]

If they were searching out Jews then that’s obviously awful. If they were fighting Maccabi fans then a quick google search of their ultras group will tell you all you need to know about those fascists

[st albans fox]

4 minutes ago, AjcW said:

Banned or just.... i dunno... removed because they shouldn't be in the competitions in the first place?*

 

 

*before anyone bites me I share the same sentiment about teams from Russia... Azerbaijan... etc etc 

Israel have always played in uefa comps because of the political problems of them playing in African comp (some n African Arab countries were officially at war with Israel for decades) or Asian federation (countries still at war with them). 
 

they shouldn’t be banned for political reasons (that may change). There were no problems in braga or bucharest this season but you can’t pick and choose where you’re going to ban away fans based on possible issues.  You make a decision based on safety of all supporters.  
 

I think we’ve reached the stage where we have to accept that the size of the protests means that safety of players and fans cannot be guaranteed.  Whether that’s a good thing or a bad thing is moot - it just fact.  Unhappy with the precedent it sets but reality bites. 

[AjcW]

6 minutes ago, st albans fox said:

Israel have always played in uefa comps because of the political problems of them playing in African comp (some n African Arab countries were officially at war with Israel for decades) or Asian federation (countries still at war with them). 
 

they shouldn’t be banned for political reasons (that may change).

But what is the difference between them and the Russian sides? If you're saying you shouldn't be banned for political reasons, that could mean a petty squabble... not acitve war!

 

The country they're from is actively at war and actively taking lives. How is that different to the Russian teams?

They should have been out the second the conflict started. 

 

I'd also still stand by the fact they shouldn't just be allowed to play in European competitions because they've not got round to going to war with anyone in Europe.... YET

[st albans fox]

4 minutes ago, Lionator said:

If they were searching out Jews then that’s obviously awful. If they were fighting Maccabi fans then a quick google search of their ultras group will tell you all you need to know about those fascists

I think both was true from some videos I’ve seen where people are clearly attacked  for being Jewish. 

 

there were British people (Jews)  who were out there to watch the game who were assaulted afterwards.  Wandering around Amsterdam last night with no colours should not mean you’re assaulted (you can’t assume that anyone Jewish is a maccabi football fan and you also shouldn’t attack someone for being a fan anyway).  
 

However, did our fans wander around Naples city centre after our game ???   You’ve got to show a certain level of nouse. But I have seen some videos where three men are forcefully entering a hotel. 
 

clearly this will be grabbed by the media and used for propaganda purposes by both sides. 
 

the basic message is that people shouldn’t be attacked at a football match or around a football match.  

[SecretPro]

1 minute ago, AjcW said:

But what is the difference between them and the Russian sides? If you're saying you shouldn't be banned for political reasons, that could mean a petty squabble... not acitve war!

 

The country they're from is actively at war and actively taking lives. How is that different to the Russian teams?

They should have been out the second the conflict started. 

 

I'd also still stand by the fact they shouldn't just be allowed to play in European competitions because they've not got round to going to war with anyone in Europe.... YET

100%

[leicsmac]

18 minutes ago, RoboFox said:

@leicsmac you might want to put me on ignore, if you haven't already. 

 

COP29 chief exec filmed promoting fossil fuel deals

 

You can't make this shit up. 

 

Welllllll... turns out you can make it up, and it's the first twenty pages/minutes of a disaster movie/novel.

 

But in all seriousness, @Daggers brand of "action directe" becomes harder and harder to refute as an option given the corruption and the ticking clock.

[st albans fox]

Just now, AjcW said:

But what is the difference between them and the Russian sides? If you're saying you shouldn't be banned for political reasons, that could mean a petty squabble... not acitve war!

 

The country they're from is actively at war and actively taking lives. How is that different to the Russian teams?

They should have been out the second the conflict started. 

 

I'd also still stand by the fact they shouldn't just be allowed to play in European competitions because they've not got round to going to war with anyone in Europe.... YET

Russia wasn’t attacked by ukraine 

Russia invaded ukraine with no justification 

 

at this time, there is a war ongoing.  Many countries are at war.  They don’t usually have their teams banned from competition unless it’s unsafe and they can’t play in neutral venues.  Lots of countries (inc us) have a pretty poor record of not attacking other countries for their own strategic reasons (often dressed up as other things). 

do you know how many Kurds were killed by Turkey over the past few weeks ?  
 

‘the second the conflict started’. - 1948?  1967?  1973?  The intifadas?  1982?  2006?    

suspect Israel wouldn’t have tried to destroy Hamas as a response for Oct 7 if they’d known uefa and fifa would exclude them for doing so. That’s sarcasm btw. 

 

At this time we have no decision from the ICJ and we don’t even have the arrest warrants issued for BN and YG, despite the level of proof of evidence required for that being of a very low bar. 
 

making political and other decisions based on your own judgements isn’t how international law works. 
 

we could see that nuance change over the next ten weeks if the UN Security Council actually get their sh#t together and the outgoing USA admin decides to abstain. 

 

 

[Sol thewall Bamba]

1 hour ago, Lionator said:

If they were searching out Jews then that’s obviously awful. If they were fighting Maccabi fans then a quick google search of their ultras group will tell you all you need to know about those fascists

Let's see if they show up in Istanbul.

[hejammy]

57 minutes ago, st albans fox said:

Russia wasn’t attacked by ukraine 

Russia invaded ukraine with no justification 

 

at this time, there is a war ongoing.  Many countries are at war.  They don’t usually have their teams banned from competition unless it’s unsafe and they can’t play in neutral venues.  Lots of countries (inc us) have a pretty poor record of not attacking other countries for their own strategic reasons (often dressed up as other things). 

do you know how many Kurds were killed by Turkey over the past few weeks ?  
 

‘the second the conflict started’. - 1948?  1967?  1973?  The intifadas?  1982?  2006?    

suspect Israel wouldn’t have tried to destroy Hamas as a response for Oct 7 if they’d known uefa and fifa would exclude them for doing so. That’s sarcasm btw. 

 

At this time we have no decision from the ICJ and we don’t even have the arrest warrants issued for BN and YG, despite the level of proof of evidence required for that being of a very low bar. 
 

making political and other decisions based on your own judgements isn’t how international law works. 
 

we could see that nuance change over the next ten weeks if the UN Security Council actually get their sh#t together and the outgoing USA admin decides to abstain. 

 

 

So by this definition I take it you feel that Israel's actions over the last year has been justified? - not a case of - you flick me and I'll destroy your entire family, community and then some? 

[Footballwipe]

Da da de daaa this thread is getting lockedd sooooon