Forest post match 3-1 loss

[ozleicester]

2 hours ago, Chelmofox said:

He was never getting the ball though. 

If that is a rule.... its a bloody stupid one... a foul is a foul is a foul... if hes kicked in the leg its a foul wherever whenever.

By being held back he certainly wasnt going to reach it... but this is Vardy... so...

[Chelmofox]

38 minutes ago, ozleicester said:

If that is a rule.... its a bloody stupid one... a foul is a foul is a foul... if hes kicked in the leg its a foul wherever whenever.

By being held back he certainly wasnt going to reach it... but this is Vardy... so...

It’s not a rule. But I thought they took it into consideration for VAR as part of the whole clear and obvious error stuff. 

[filbertway]

15 hours ago, suffolk fox said:

He was asked to beat three men because forest tactically got it spot on.  Trebled up on fatawu doubled up on Mavididi.  (a player by the way who looks totally disinterested, he needs a rocket up his backside).  Funnily enough bringing Ricardo back into the side, as most foxestalk wanted made us worse.

One of the FBs would have played the same role...again...people making out we've turned from prime Brazil into a village team because the change of personnel.

 

The manager playing god awful tactics where his one move is "pack the middle and hope for the best" 

 

Steve...if the opposition decide to put 7 men in the middle..maybe focus attacks out wide next time

[FoxesTalker]

This will have been covered already no doubt, but Friday’s defeat (under the manager they sacked) was yet another stark reminder of how far this club has fallen. That shouldn’t be lost on the fanbase, and not only are Forest now ahead in footballing terms, they’re also more likely to have an expanded ground before ourselves. This would have been unthinkable not so long ago. Some Forest fans said this was the most comfortable win since their promotion, which says it all really. 

[Bptiger]

13 hours ago, trooky said:

Yes and unfortunately they don't play for us.

 

Mavididi and Fatawu are our best options, along way head of BDR and Ayew in my opinion.

It was also like he ( Mavididi ) was told to play backwards , I have never seem him play that bad , even in space he always looked to go backwards 

On 29/09/2024 at 16:29, Nalis said:

It would take us to be on 6 points after 17 games for Cooper to be sacked by the board. By that stage it will be too late.

 

[Pliskin]

On 25/10/2024 at 23:21, shen said:

They were perfectly sound. They played to their strengths well and they played some good stuff at times. As mentioned in the match thread, even Aina, whom I've never rated, completely bossed their right side. 

This is what happens when a side is well drilled. Nuno is renowned for putting together solid teams. We’ve managed to get things from teams that are a bit more open and less organised, Forest barely gave us a sniff because every player knew their role and every player knew what was expected of them. 
 

When someone got the ball, there was a purpose to their play, either punch a pass into a threatening area of it was on, or recycle the ball and don’t lose it. 
 

We had no answer, not because we are a poor team (despite what many think on here), but because we’re a poorly coached team. Nuno exposed Cooper, and really highlighted how poor a coach and tactician he really is.

 

Had an interesting chat with my mate, he said it sounds like Cooper basically goes about his business as he did when he was an academy coach…….. essentially, treats the players like they are kids….. which is never going to work at this level….. 

 

He evidently isn’t “in charge” he’s too flimsy in his approach, and is more of a “there, there” manager with patronising pats to the head, probably hands out haribo’s at the end of a session and will probably have a “managers most improved player” award at the end of the season. 

[Dahnsouff]

4 minutes ago, Pliskin said:

…

We had no answer, not because we are a poor team (despite what many think on here), but because we’re a poorly coached team. Nuno exposed Cooper, and really highlighted how poor a coach and tactician he really is.

….

It’s both though isn’t it? We are not a poor team, not as poor as some suggest, but we are also not as good as some make out. Plenty of poor performances yesterday, and I am very undecided if he was right to change to the “Enzo” system. I hope he sticks with it, even if I am not convinced Cooper can coach Enzo system to the new players.
Also will admit I thought Ricardo was (understandably) poor, but on review it was an unreasonable conclusion.

[Pliskin]

16 minutes ago, Dahnsouff said:

It’s both though isn’t it? We are not a poor team, not as poor as some suggest, but we are also not as good as some make out. Plenty of poor performances yesterday, and I am very undecided if he was right to change to the “Enzo” system. I hope he sticks with it, even if I am not convinced Cooper can coach Enzo system to the new players.
Also will admit I thought Ricardo was (understandably) poor, but on review it was an unreasonable conclusion.

There’s enough premier league experience and young talent in this team to be performing better than we are. There haven’t really been any good performances in all honesty, a few moments here and there that have produced results. Cooper switches systems like no bodies business, because he can’t get the balance of the squad right a criticism he’s carried everywhere he’s been. Basic fundamental errors, all over the field the players can’t be blamed all of the time for this it comes from the top, and Cooper just isn’t coaching them adequately enough. The problem is they’ve gone from a very rigid coaching style, to a very relaxed one, this is a radical change and I don’t think alot of the player are buying it…. I’m not saying that he’s “lost” the dressing room per se, because he probably hasn’t because he’s a good guy and a good man manager, but tactically and a as a coach he is poor, and it’s the main reason we’re not playing as well as we could be. 
 

I think he’s reduced us to a moments team, and we revel in the chaos and often seem to be able to find a way playing like this. But you come up against a team who’s got a clear plan and can execute it well, the chaos never comes, and we simply have no ideas and no way to break down the opponents, but we’ve got creative players on the side, that are lacking guidance and a structured plan. It very much is a case of get the ball to one of Mavididi, Fatawu or Buonanotte and just hope they can run through an entire team. 

[Winstonthedog]

5 minutes ago, Pliskin said:

There’s enough premier league experience and young talent in this team to be performing better than we are. There haven’t really been any good performances in all honesty, a few moments here and there that have produced results. Cooper switches systems like no bodies business, because he can’t get the balance of the squad right a criticism he’s carried everywhere he’s been. Basic fundamental errors, all over the field the players can’t be blamed all of the time for this it comes from the top, and Cooper just isn’t coaching them adequately enough. The problem is they’ve gone from a very rigid coaching style, to a very relaxed one, this is a radical change and I don’t think alot of the player are buying it…. I’m not saying that he’s “lost” the dressing room per se, because he probably hasn’t because he’s a good guy and a good man manager, but tactically and a as a coach he is poor, and it’s the main reason we’re not playing as well as we could be. 
 

I think he’s reduced us to a moments team, and we revel in the chaos and often seem to be able to find a way playing like this. But you come up against a team who’s got a clear plan and can execute it well, the chaos never comes, and we simply have no ideas and no way to break down the opponents, but we’ve got creative players on the side, that are lacking guidance and a structured plan. It very much is a case of get the ball to one of Mavididi, Fatawu or Buonanotte and just hope they can run through an entire team. 

True .. so far we haven't played well for a full 90 minutes... can't think of many times we have dominated play for a decent period ... no leader on the pitch .... certain players just going through the motions ... no real quality or game changers ... when the next transfer window opens need to offload certain non performers 

[Dahnsouff]

14 minutes ago, Pliskin said:

There’s enough premier league experience and young talent in this team to be performing better than we are. There haven’t really been any good performances in all honesty, a few moments here and there that have produced results. Cooper switches systems like no bodies business, because he can’t get the balance of the squad right a criticism he’s carried everywhere he’s been. Basic fundamental errors, all over the field the players can’t be blamed all of the time for this it comes from the top, and Cooper just isn’t coaching them adequately enough. The problem is they’ve gone from a very rigid coaching style, to a very relaxed one, this is a radical change and I don’t think alot of the player are buying it…. I’m not saying that he’s “lost” the dressing room per se, because he probably hasn’t because he’s a good guy and a good man manager, but tactically and a as a coach he is poor, and it’s the main reason we’re not playing as well as we could be. 
 

I think he’s reduced us to a moments team, and we revel in the chaos and often seem to be able to find a way playing like this. But you come up against a team who’s got a clear plan and can execute it well, the chaos never comes, and we simply have no ideas and no way to break down the opponents, but we’ve got creative players on the side, that are lacking guidance and a structured plan. It very much is a case of get the ball to one of Mavididi, Fatawu or Buonanotte and just hope they can run through an entire team. 

Broadly agree. I think yesterday was a very strange game, as it was a system that worked well last season ((under our high level coach), so it was with some trepidation (and excitement)  that the line up was viewed. Some of these players never played under Enzo, so could Cooper hope to instill the required tactical nous that Enzo did?

First half was decent as it had potential and hope (We need to be honest and yes we might not like it, and recent history says otherwise, but Forest have now moved past us for now)
 

The individual errors are largely on the players as they occurred in these “moments”, using your term, but in the defensive fragility sense, as none of the Facundo, JJ or Wout brain farts were coaching failures, they were just personal cock ups. 
 

Then the second half and Nuno changed, and we seemed unable too, that’s 100% on Cooper, as he got utterly bested by Nuno. This point more than any other is where we need better and I am not convinced Cooper has the capacity to do so. Would changing manager guarantee better? No of course not, could it? Yes.

Edited 27 October 2024 by Dahnsouff

[rugbyblue]

16 hours ago, Spudulike said:

I don't personally know any NottsF supporters. Which is nice 

I do.  And it's horrible.. Not just after Friday, just in general 😂

[Sunbury Fox]

On 25/10/2024 at 23:42, Webbo said:

I'm never delighted when we lose, unlike some people on here who have openly said they want us to lose so Cooper will get the sack. 

I knew the simplistic solutions the Cooper out bunch were calling for were pie in the sky  and I knew that when they failed they blame Cooper. I'm just trying to teach some humility here. I'm wasting my time I know.

You’re wilfully missing the point that there is more to being a manager than picking the team. Tactics and in-game management are crucial at the top level where margins are so tight - and the fact is that Cooper failed to respond when Nuno tweaked their formation at half time to counteract the unexpected way we started the game. As a result, we were totally hopeless in the second half.
 

It’s way too simplistic to deduce from that those calling for that starting XI are wrong as a result of what played out in the second half.

 

 

Edited 27 October 2024 by Sunbury Fox

[The Guvnor]

The players who made the mistakes that led to Forests goals will be hurting.

I should imagine there will be analysis and painful viewings for some and the lesson will be learn from it, don’t let it happen again or dwell on it, move on.

 

[CosbehFox]

Multiple Forest fans in the home ends. Speaks volumes at LCFC given the obstacles they put in place yet end up with supporters of local rivals in the home ends 

[worth_the_wait]

Apologies if I've missed it earlier in the thread, but what significant change did Nuno make at half time?

 

I say "significant", because I didn't see any fundamental change in the first 2 minutes of the 2nd half.   Only Winks giving the ball straight to a Forest player, and Okoli being easily turned by Woods ... followed by heads dropping all round, and it felt like the players (and fans) had thrown the towel in by the 47th minute.
 

(I'm not saying Nuno didn't tweak anything at half time, mind, just saying that we seemed to be a path of self-destruction Friday night ... and didn't need any help from the oppo manager)

[FOXSE]

1 hour ago, CosbehFox said:

Multiple Forest fans in the home ends. Speaks volumes at LCFC given the obstacles they put in place yet end up with supporters of local rivals in the home ends 

So they should have few obstacles, that would help?

[CosbehFox]

15 minutes ago, FOXSE said:

So they should have few obstacles, that would help?

Too much of a rage comment from me. I’d like to know how Forest fans got around the obstacles they put out 

[st albans fox]

1 hour ago, worth_the_wait said:

Apologies if I've missed it earlier in the thread, but what significant change did Nuno make at half time?

 

I say "significant", because I didn't see any fundamental change in the first 2 minutes of the 2nd half.   Only Winks giving the ball straight to a Forest player, and Okoli being easily turned by Woods ... followed by heads dropping all round, and it felt like the players (and fans) had thrown the towel in by the 47th minute.
 

(I'm not saying Nuno didn't tweak anything at half time, mind, just saying that we seemed to be a path of self-destruction Friday night ... and didn't need any help from the oppo manager)

The early goal in the second period certainly knocked the stuffing out of them but we’d gone behind in the first half and kept going. the period between goals 2 and 3 wasn’t recognisable from the first half when we were behind. in the first half, nuno pushed four up to press our defence in possession - wood, the two wingers and one of the midfielders. That made it tricky to find winks or Ricky because the passing lanes were quite blocked. But we generally managed to work it out.  Can’t recall many passes into the midfield in the second half - not only did they continue to press 4 across but they also pushed another midfielder into the space that Ricky and winks occupied.  that should have led us to work out where the spaces had then been left and to utilise them.  The point is that our coaching team didn’t appear to manage that. 

[FOXSE]

1 hour ago, CosbehFox said:

Too much of a rage comment from me. I’d like to know how Forest fans got around the obstacles they put out 

I am assuming either

 

a) a season ticket holder with a card gave it someone to use

 

B)someone screen shotted (or photographed) the qr entry code from the phone

 

There are other options, but probably one of them?

 

 

[HarryDee8]

It was strange from the start, felt like we just didn't turn up. When we had a chance to beat a team that played 2 games in 5 days.

[Long Eaton Fox]

Well cooper played the team most people wanted but we still lost. I thought first half we were good, scoring a nicely worked goal. Problem was though individuals kept making poor errors of judgement which gave forest 3 goals. Forest are a decent team with a solid defence and a good target man in Wood. The tweak they made to close down Winks should have been addressed. Skipp on for Ndidi to put 2 playmakers in the middle. Winks being marked closely did not lose us the game. It was already lost at 0-3. It did however prevent us getting back into it. Our players seem to be afraid to kick the ball to row Z when needed but coached to try and play the ball out. This also seems to be the trend for nearly all premier league teams. Every game contains a goal caused by over playing the ball out from the back. 

 

I think too many changes were made on Friday in response to the clammer made after the dramatic win at soton.  Somewhere in between I think and removing the errors and I believe we would have got something from the game.

[BlackFox]

On 26/10/2024 at 09:17, hejammy said:

Absolute rubbish, Ricky lost possession around 3 phases before they scored. It was JJs feeble clearance that directly resulted in the goal. You absolutely have no basis on defending JJ yesterday, yes granted most players didn't have a great game but JJ was at fault for most of their chances and goals. Like I said at the moment he's a liability. 

The ball bounced off JJ it wasn't a clearance. 

[Ric Flair]

2 hours ago, BlackFox said:

The ball bounced off JJ it wasn't a clearance. 

He's flicked it off the opposite leg, it was a very odd reaction from him. Yates still had a fair bit to do but we made a series of mistakes in that passage of play and seemed determined to shit the bed.

[Ric Flair]

16 hours ago, Long Eaton Fox said:

Well cooper played the team most people wanted but we still lost. I thought first half we were good, scoring a nicely worked goal. Problem was though individuals kept making poor errors of judgement which gave forest 3 goals. Forest are a decent team with a solid defence and a good target man in Wood. The tweak they made to close down Winks should have been addressed. Skipp on for Ndidi to put 2 playmakers in the middle. Winks being marked closely did not lose us the game. It was already lost at 0-3. It did however prevent us getting back into it. Our players seem to be afraid to kick the ball to row Z when needed but coached to try and play the ball out. This also seems to be the trend for nearly all premier league teams. Every game contains a goal caused by over playing the ball out from the back. 

 

I think too many changes were made on Friday in response to the clammer made after the dramatic win at soton.  Somewhere in between I think and removing the errors and I believe we would have got something from the game.

OK let's just break this down. Kristiansen was injured so he had play Ricardo, unless he really wanted to show just how much he doesn't rate Riccy and play someone else out of position. 

 

The other changes were Winks, who'd only been dropped recently for Skipp and a very raw El Khannouss for Fatawu. He could have left Winks out again but having taken Skipp off at half time and the dominance Winks then had I think he's taken the opportunity to try and get a future reaction out of Skipp after being left out.

 

It's hardly a raft of changes and we've seen with previous games that keeping the same personnel or making a few changes hasn't yet had the linear effect some may expect. We are yet to put in a 90 minute performance, in almost every game we concede a massive amount of chances and our goalkeeper is performing heroics. 

 

Certain fans are reacting to others calling for changes that when they've happened and we haven't done anything tangibly different to what we've seen that they're proven wrong. By that metric in the previous games when such players haven't played and we've been crap and/or lost, is that not the counter evidence?

 

I don't like the inverted full back system when it gets exposed and whilst I see the merits of it when it does work, I'm curious and equally scared that Cooper doesn't have the decisiveness and conviction to teach this strongly enough for it to not be easily out maneuvered by the opposition. 

 

As I've consistently said under Cooper, I hope the outcome from every game is to learn from it. He's starting to tweak things here and there which I praise him for but he also quickly needs to have clarity on how to improve us.

[Finnegan]

1 hour ago, Ric Flair said:

OK let's just break this down. Kristiansen was injured so he had play Ricardo, unless he really wanted to show just how much he doesn't rate Riccy and play someone else out of position. 

 

The other changes were Winks, who'd only been dropped recently for Skipp and a very raw El Khannouss for Fatawu. He could have left Winks out again but having taken Skipp off at half time and the dominance Winks then had I think he's taken the opportunity to try and get a future reaction out of Skipp after being left out.

 

It's hardly a raft of changes and we've seen with previous games that keeping the same personnel or making a few changes hasn't yet had the linear effect some may expect. We are yet to put in a 90 minute performance, in almost every game we concede a massive amount of chances and our goalkeeper is performing heroics. 

 

Certain fans are reacting to others calling for changes that when they've happened and we haven't done anything tangibly different to what we've seen that they're proven wrong. By that metric in the previous games when such players haven't played and we've been crap and/or lost, is that not the counter evidence?

 

I don't like the inverted full back system when it gets exposed and whilst I see the merits of it when it does work, I'm curious and equally scared that Cooper doesn't have the decisiveness and conviction to teach this strongly enough for it to not be easily out maneuvered by the opposition. 

 

As I've consistently said under Cooper, I hope the outcome from every game is to learn from it. He's starting to tweak things here and there which I praise him for but he also quickly needs to have clarity on how to improve us.

 

I thought he got the tactics fine on Friday. Of course I have some bias but I don't think the changes were why we lost and the goals we conceded we would have done however we wanted to play. 

 

I think we looked pretty good for large parts of the game, especially early on. Our right hand side looked no more exposed with an inverted full back than it already has all season with a conventional one. 

 

But what we gained was the ability to build properly for almost the first time this season with Ricardo and Winks combining well to help us beat the press and get out. The goal we scored was a great example of that, it was a superb move and the kind of football we've barely played at all in any first half this year. 

 

In defence of Cooper, there's just absolutely nothing you can do as a manager about a goal like the first. No tactical system, however progressive, however much you want to play out from the back, involves Facundo doing that. It was one of the stupidest bits of play from any player all season and he's one of our best, everyone here - Cooper in, Cooper out, Enzoball or "PrAgMaTiSt" would have Buonanotte in the side. 

 

The second is just, ugh. You can defend every goal better but sometimes a ball is just destined to go in. I think every footballer has at least one of these spells in his life, that rare purple patch where everything they touch turns to gold. Like that three months Jesse Lingard at West Ham was Maradona. It wasn't the worst defending you'll ever see (I'm not claiming it was the best) but he put it on the postage stamp he needed to hit to get that in. Like it or not it was just a great finish. 

 

And the third we're chasing the game, we're obviously vulnerable to a counter attack and Faes and Okoli just completely fail to deal with a route one hoof down the middle to a man Jannik Vestergaard could probably out-sprint.

 

I don't really think any of these are about tactics, they're about players losing their one on one duels. You could debate for ever about whether or not concentration or decision making would be better if the morale in the squad was better or if the players were better coached but you're talking about fan speculation there. 

 

All I can say is that for the first time this season, in a first half, in possession, we actually looked like there was a plan and we knew what to do. 

 

Edited 28 October 2024 by Finnegan