Sean Dyche

[kingfox]

14 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

Whilst we cannot be arrogant and complacent, we also cannot afford to lack any ambition at all. Last time we dropped to this level we picked up Fatawu and Hermansen, assets we'll almost certainly profit from. Can anyone say with a straight face they think Dyche would have approved those signings? No, he'll sign a bunch of 30 year old, "safe" journeymen with limited technical ability and no resale value and he'll kill the long term value of the squad. Something that could take generations to recover. You think Cooper was bad for Ayew and BDCR? They've got Dyche written all over them.

 

Excellent post Finners and agree with pretty much all of it. 
 

This section though is exactly how I viewed Dyche, someone who is completely addicted to experienced journeymen, and has zero faith of developing younger players, when you strip that back though, I’ve come to realise that’s not fully true. 
 

Would Dyche have picked up Fatawu or Hermansen, probably not. But Dyche is also a guy who signed and helped develop an England international in Nick Pope. 
 

He’s done this with numerous other players that ended up gaining profit, Michael Keane and Dwight McNeil spring to mind, and even though Tarkowski joined Everton for free, Dyche helped him develop into a Premier League standard centre back. 
 

Would he sign some more journeymen, highly likely. 
 

But would he also sign talents in their early 20’s, history also suggests that’s strongly possible. 
 

Ideally I don’t want him as Leicester manager, I’d much prefer someone younger with a far better brand of football. 
 

But I’ve come to learn that some people have been incredibly harsh on Dyche in certain aspects, and I’ll include myself in that. 

[winteriscoming]

His best opportunity to get a job is unfortunately with a side like us. Hoping for promotion from the championship. No one in the premiership will want him. If Palace and Bournemouth lose their managers in the summer. Both been linked with Spurs and Glasner has interest in Germany in him. 
We should be looking at how Bournemouth, Brighton, Brentford, and Palace recruit players and managers. Guaranteed Palace and Bournemouth will have someone lined up already. 
We just go for a quick fix and no long term planning. 
There are so many better options than Dyche. 

[Finnegan]

3 minutes ago, kingfox said:

Excellent post Finners and agree with pretty much all of it. 
 

This section though is exactly how I viewed Dyche, someone who is completely addicted to experienced journeymen, and has zero faith of developing younger players, when you strip that back though, I’ve come to realise that’s not fully true. 
 

Would Dyche have picked up Fatawu or Hermansen, probably not. But Dyche is also a guy who signed and helped develop an England international in Nick Pope. 
 

He’s done this with numerous other players that ended up gaining profit, Michael Keane and Dwight McNeil spring to mind, and even though Tarkowski joined Everton for free, Dyche helped him develop into a Premier League standard centre back. 
 

Would he sign some more journeymen, highly likely. 
 

But would he also sign talents in their early 20’s, history also suggests that’s strongly possible. 
 

Ideally I don’t want him as Leicester manager, I’d much prefer someone younger with a far better brand of football. 
 

But I’ve come to learn that some people have been incredibly harsh on Dyche in certain aspects, and I’ll include myself in that. 

 

But Michael Keane and Dwight McNeil aren't particularly footballers I'd want anywhere near Leicester. Maybe that's a tad harsh with Keane but McNeil is the absolute epitome of Dyche isn't he?

 

The one, standout youth player than Sean Dyche has developed. He's slow, he's in something like the 50th percentile for take ons and 28th (lol) for carries, he's got no idea where the goal is and his one undeniable strength is he can whip a cross in like it's 1997.

 

Look, I ****ing loved Steve Guppy, he was one of my all time favourite Leicester players but time moves on. Even Sharky stopped being productive pretty much the moment after he bagged against Sevilla. 

 

People's idea of "uncomplicated" and "pragmatic" is for us to play energetic, high pressing, counter attacking football. You want to do that with a twenty foot tall donkey centre forward and a one legged throw back winger whose number one talent is crossing? 

 

Look, I get it, I'm being intensely hyperbolic but come on. 

 

I just cannot see a single argument for Dyche other than traits that hundreds of other viable managers have. I get it if you're some Brexit football "fan" whose football knowledge comes exclusively from The Sun but it genuinely blows my mind that you and @Stadt are so vocally in favour of him. 

 

[indierich06]

21 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

Sean Dyche is a strange manager. He's sort of stuck in a paradoxical loop. 

 

He's one of the best in the country at what he's good at, so naturally he rises towards the top of the football pyramid and gets his shot at Premier League football. 

 

He's now got himself a reputation and an ambition that's going to price him out of the reach of most Football League clubs and you can't blame him for wanting Premier League gigs. 

 

But the problem is that what he's good at is min-maxing a small, provincial, Football League budget and making it competitive. The clubs he manages are always going to have a ceiling because of his own limitations, that's why he thrives at clubs that already have a very low one. He's efficient at working within those confines. If he rocked up at somewhere like Preston tomorrow, it wouldn't surprise me to see them promoted in a season or two. 

 

But Preston can't afford him, we can. 

 

The problem for us is that our financial ills are short term, our ceiling is temporary. We know where our actual ceiling is, we comfortably have the raw materials to be a Best of the Rest club, top of the Other 14. Whilst we've got no divine right to be there and the competition has heated up, we also know without doubt that's attainable for us and at very least we should be thinking about top flight mid table and a push for Conference League. 

 

We might have our hands tied somewhat now (albeit those restraints loosen every year we spend conservatively) but our commercial income, the backing of our owners and our match day revenue provides Many Pound Notes™. 

 

Someone earlier in the thread made the point that Dyche will tank the value of our squad, they're not wrong. I don't doubt he'd spend a small budget efficiently if we don't have much to rebuild with this summer but he'd also sign a lot of players with no resellable value and extremely limited potential to play any other football than Sean Dyche football which has extremely limited ceiling in the Premier League. 

 

Whilst we cannot be arrogant and complacent, we also cannot afford to lack any ambition at all. Last time we dropped to this level we picked up Fatawu and Hermansen, assets we'll almost certainly profit from. Can anyone say with a straight face they think Dyche would have approved those signings? No, he'll sign a bunch of 30 year old, "safe" journeymen with limited technical ability and no resale value and he'll kill the long term value of the squad. Something that could take generations to recover. You think Cooper was bad for Ayew and BDCR? They've got Dyche written all over them.

 

The two absolutely constant arguments for Dyche are that the squad needs an overhaul of character and that the fans want more uncomplicated football. That's fine, I don't fundamentally disagree, we can aspire for those things. We should. 

 

But there are tens of thousands of managers / head coaches plying their trade in the world, if you think Sean Dyche is the only one that doesn't play Tiki Taka and does value hard working footballers, I've got a bridge to sell you. 

 

And no, I'm not a snob, I don't care if our football isn't like watching Barcelona and I don't care if we don't sign some Football Hipster, textbook German vogue head coach. But I DO want to be entertained at least to some degree when I watch Leicester and frankly the thought of watching a Dyche managed City makes me want to self harm. 

 

Sorry, but the idea that when he was a Championship manager he built sides full of aging journeymen with no resale value just doesn't hold water. The challenges of building a promotion winning Champ side and a team that can survive in the Premier League are very different and I think it's only fair to judge him based on what he's done when he's been in the Championship previously.

 

The average age of signings he made while Burnley were in the Championship was 25. Not sure if I've missed anyone, but think this is pretty illustrative:

 

Chris Long (20), Michael Keane (21), Sam Vokes (22), Fredrik Ulvestad (22), James Tarkowski (23), Tendayi Darikwa (23), Ashley Barnes (24), Andre Gray (24), Scott Arfield (24), Nick Pope (24), Lukas Jutkiewicz (25), Tom Heaton (26), Jelle Vossen (26), Matthew Lowton (26), George Boyd (28), David Jones (28), Michael Kightly (28), Stephen Ward (29), Dean Marney (29), Matt Taylor (32).

 

Championship-era Burnley also spent about £25 million on signings and earned £65 million from selling them. This was with a club who would have had a much lower budget than ours.

What I won't argue with is the lack of flair players on that list - there is a clear tendency to sign players who will function well in a hardworking 4-4-2 side. I don't think there's anything necessarily wrong with that. Would he have sanctioned the signing of Fatawu? Maybe not. I think he would have liked Mavididi - a hard working winger - and Hermansen though. I think last summer showed us that the way transfer strategy seems to work is that the club buy some players without the manager's say-so (El Khannouss surely wasn't a Cooper signing if we're honest) but they also take the manager's POV too - which is probably how we've been lumbered with Ayew and BDCR. I like to think that based on that list of players he signed at Burnley we'd at least have a strategy of buying younger players with some headroom to develop and sell.

 

I've been defending him a lot in this thread the past couple of days - I don't actually have a strong opinion on him taking over, and I think there are other options we could explore, I just think there are a lot of myths around him as a manager that actually don't stand up to close inspection, particularly around his time as a Championship manager - which is what we'd be recruiting him for.

[Claridge]

Cant see much of a difference between Pearson and Dyche to be fair, apart from one did it for far longer than the other

Both a bit out of date now i suppose

[kingfox]

1 minute ago, Finnegan said:

 

But Michael Keane and Dwight McNeil aren't particularly footballers I'd want anywhere near Leicester. Maybe that's a tad harsh with Keane but McNeil is the absolute epitome of Dyche isn't he?

 

The one, standout youth player than Sean Dyche has developed. He's slow, he's in something like the 50th percentile for take ons and 28th (lol) for carries, he's got no idea where the goal is and his one undeniable strength is he can whip a cross in like it's 1997.

 

Look, I ****ing loved Steve Guppy, he was one of my all time favourite Leicester players but time moves on. Even Sharky stopped being productive pretty much the moment after he bagged against Sevilla. 

 

People's idea of "uncomplicated" and "pragmatic" is for us to play energetic, high pressing, counter attacking football. You want to do that with a twenty foot tall donkey centre forward and a one legged throw back winger whose number one talent is crossing? 

 

Look, I get it, I'm being intensely hyperbolic but come on. 

 

I just cannot see a single argument for Dyche other than traits that hundreds of other viable managers have. I get it if you're some Brexit football "fan" whose football knowledge comes exclusively from The Sun but it genuinely blows my mind that you and @Stadt are so vocally in favour of him. 

 

But you’re talking from a style of play perspective regarding those players. In your paragraph that I pointed out, you was talking about how he only cares about journeymen, all I did was point out stating that’s not true, and gave some fair examples. 
 

Dyche prefers a certain type of winger, I’d say someone like Tom Fellows at WBA is right up Dyche’s street, is he shit? 
 

With that last line though Finners, you’re just putting words into my mouth. 
 

I’ve not been vocally in favour for him, I even stated in my previous post that I don’t want him as Leicester manager. I’ve also stated numerous times on this forum, that I’d much prefer to see an energetic, high pressing style of football. It’s the style of football I enjoy watching the most, I’d pay good money to watch Iraola’s Bournemouth for example, over a Sean Dyche Leicester City team, should it happen. 
 

I’ve just pointed out that the argument regarding Dyche hates youth, and Dyche is addicted to journeymen is a little bit flawed, the evidence is there mate. 

[Finnegan]

2 minutes ago, Claridge said:

Cant see much of a difference between Pearson and Dyche to be fair, apart from one did it for far longer than the other

Both a bit out of date now i suppose

 

Pearson was part of a three man team that built a squad and club that won the Premier League for next to **** all while Dyche filled out his squad with Lukas Jutkiewicz and Marvin Sordell and went straight back down. 

 

[Happy Fox]

If Dyche is hired on a short term basis to a) get us promoted and b) keep us up in the premier league, it works well for both parties and we can part ways..

 

If we hire a young progressive manager it runs the risk of being poached again ala Maresca, but much rather we went down this route.

[AKCJ]

I think Dyche's style of play and transfer choices are more of a product of the environments he has managed in as opposed to what he's wanted. I also think views on his style of play are massively exaggerated.

[Finnegan]

1 minute ago, kingfox said:

I’ve just pointed out that the argument regarding Dyche hates youth, and Dyche is addicted to journeymen is a little bit flawed, the evidence is there mate. 

 

Aye, like I said, I full accept I'm being intensely hyperbolic, I always am. 

 

But I maintain what I've said, regardless of the fact I'd rather use razor blades for contact lenses than watch Dycheball, I also don't want him anywhere near our rebuild. 

 

I mean look at this:

 

17 minutes ago, indierich06 said:

Chris Long (20), Michael Keane (21), Sam Vokes (22), Fredrik Ulvestad (22), James Tarkowski (23), Tendayi Darikwa (23), Ashley Barnes (24), Andre Gray (24), Scott Arfield (24), Nick Pope (24), Lukas Jutkiewicz (25), Tom Heaton (26), Jelle Vossen (26), Matthew Lowton (26), George Boyd (28), David Jones (28), Michael Kightly (28), Stephen Ward (29), Dean Marney (29), Matt Taylor (32).

 

I'm sorry both of you, that list just makes me ****ing sad. Even the 25 year olds are 40 at heart. 

 

[AjcW]

19 minutes ago, indierich06 said:

Chris Long (20), Michael Keane (21), Sam Vokes (22), Fredrik Ulvestad (22), James Tarkowski (23), Tendayi Darikwa (23), Ashley Barnes (24), Andre Gray (24), Scott Arfield (24), Nick Pope (24), Lukas Jutkiewicz (25), Tom Heaton (26), Jelle Vossen (26), Matthew Lowton (26), George Boyd (28), David Jones (28), Michael Kightly (28), Stephen Ward (29), Dean Marney (29), Matt Taylor (32).

 

Mate of mine has always had this long running thing about "Football League Names" and this list would probably make him cry with joy  

 

There's a few requirements, he always enjoys players with two first names, Matty James for example, that's peak 'Footabll League Names'

[kingfox]

4 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

 

Aye, like I said, I full accept I'm being intensely hyperbolic, I always am. 

 

But I maintain what I've said, regardless of the fact I'd rather use razor blades for contact lenses than watch Dycheball, I also don't want him anywhere near our rebuild. 

 

I mean look at this:

 

 

I'm sorry both of you, that list just makes me ****ing sad. Even the 25 year olds are 40 at heart. 

 

Drinking bleach is a good alternative to using razor blades  

 

But jokes aside, I fully agree, his style of play isn’t for me either, and I’d be shitting myself regarding the potential signings he could make, Michael Keane on a free being prime example. 
 

Your dislike to him just boils down to one thing though doesn’t it Finners…

 

You just don’t want a big fvcking target man up front  

[Finnegan]

3 minutes ago, kingfox said:

You just don’t want a big fvcking target man up front

 

 

Credit where it's due, Big Sam Vokes making all of Belgium cry was peak football. 

 

[Skidmark]

The academy question isn't very valid. 

 

I taught a lad who was on the books for Leicester for a long while.  (Was his form tutor, and had to do all his paper work) Academy prospect, striker, thought he was going to make it. Leicester converted him into a centre back, then released him and he's now playing in Burnley's U-21s. 

 

The academy up there doesn't develop players well as they go to other clubs in the local area. There's bigger pulls than Burnley and the club suffer because of it. 

 

The lad in question still hasn't made a senior appearance and was loaned to Marine where he got an ACL. The point is they have to take others cast offs rather than develop. 

[dsr-burnley]

18 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

 

Pearson was part of a three man team that built a squad and club that won the Premier League for next to **** all while Dyche filled out his squad with Lukas Jutkiewicz and Marvin Sordell and went straight back down. 

 

I suppose you have to wonder whether Leicester signing Ulloa and Kramaric for £10m or so each while Burnley signed Jutkiewicz and Sordell might have been partly to do with Leicester having a chairman putting money in, rather than the ability of the manager.

[5waller5]

Enzo to Cooper to RVN to Dyche

 

This would perfectly epitomise the flip flop of styles that has got us to this point, and why our Board has to go. 

[AKCJ]

Just now, 5waller5 said:

Enzo to Cooper to RVN to Dyche

 

This would perfectly epitomise the flip flop of styles that has got us to this point, and why our Board has to go. 

I think it's quite clear that Cooper was a long way down the list of managers we wanted. He was probably not even on it at first.

[Izzy]

58 minutes ago, kingfox said:

Ideally I don’t want him as Leicester manager, I’d much prefer someone younger with a far better brand of football. 

I don’t want Dyche either but reading a lot of posts saying he’s old, past it, a dinosaur etc.

 

The blokes still only 53 and younger than Pep, Ange, Klopp, Moyes, NFP and many others.

[MPH]

1 hour ago, Happy Fox said:

If Dyche is hired on a short term basis to a) get us promoted and b) keep us up in the premier league, it works well for both parties and we can part ways..

 

If we hire a young progressive manager it runs the risk of being poached again ala Maresca, but much rather we went down this route.

Only problem is the vacuum left by  arguably contributed to us going straight back down again… He wouldn’t have signed BCR or Ayew for starters.. probably would have tapped the big clubs a bit more for some favors..

[Pliskin]

I still can’t believe some are actually trying to argue that this would be a good move….. staggering. 

[ClaphamFox]

1 hour ago, Izzy said:

I don’t want Dyche either but reading a lot of posts saying he’s old, past it, a dinosaur etc.

 

The blokes still only 53 and younger than Pep, Ange, Klopp, Moyes, NFP and many others.

His age has nothing to do with why people are calling him a dinosaur. 

[kingfox]

1 hour ago, Izzy said:

I don’t want Dyche either but reading a lot of posts saying he’s old, past it, a dinosaur etc.

 

The blokes still only 53 and younger than Pep, Ange, Klopp, Moyes, NFP and many others.

Take the Championship for instance as a good example, it’s littered with either up-and-coming managers or managers that have been around the block. 
 

I can see why some fans would really advocate for Dyche, but I’d just prefer someone in the Rohl, Mousinho, Manning type age bracket. 

[The Horse's Mouth]

1 hour ago, Izzy said:

I don’t want Dyche either but reading a lot of posts saying he’s old, past it, a dinosaur etc.

 

The blokes still only 53 and younger than Pep, Ange, Klopp, Moyes, NFP and many others.

Think that’s my issue with a lot of these anti Dyche arguments, they’re most not factual and just based on weird misconceptions people have that they can’t back up with facts. 
 

People who don’t want him for his style of play is a fine stance, but even going to extent of diminshing a lot of his achievements is mental to me 

[80footgiraffe]

Get Puel in

 

[Stadt]

2 hours ago, Finnegan said:

 

But Michael Keane and Dwight McNeil aren't particularly footballers I'd want anywhere near Leicester. Maybe that's a tad harsh with Keane but McNeil is the absolute epitome of Dyche isn't he?

 

The one, standout youth player than Sean Dyche has developed. He's slow, he's in something like the 50th percentile for take ons and 28th (lol) for carries, he's got no idea where the goal is and his one undeniable strength is he can whip a cross in like it's 1997.

 

Look, I ****ing loved Steve Guppy, he was one of my all time favourite Leicester players but time moves on. Even Sharky stopped being productive pretty much the moment after he bagged against Sevilla. 

 

People's idea of "uncomplicated" and "pragmatic" is for us to play energetic, high pressing, counter attacking football. You want to do that with a twenty foot tall donkey centre forward and a one legged throw back winger whose number one talent is crossing? 

 

Look, I get it, I'm being intensely hyperbolic but come on. 

 

I just cannot see a single argument for Dyche other than traits that hundreds of other viable managers have. I get it if you're some Brexit football "fan" whose football knowledge comes exclusively from The Sun but it genuinely blows my mind that you and @Stadt are so vocally in favour of him. 

 

I've repeatedly said he wouldn't be my first choice (not even on a shortlist of 10) but of the usual myopic set of targets Rudkin and Top would draw up, he's the best of those. He's far more accomplished than Martin, Gerrard, O'Neil etc. His sides have pressed higher than he gets credit for, a key tenet of a Dyche side is working hard out of possession and there's situational counter pressing. He's more Simeone than Allardyce but obviously much less talented.

 

Again, as a clued up football fan I'm not advocating for him a priority but our board aren't landing progressive names from the continent, we operate like how an alcoholic pub bore would run a club.

 

His most recent signings at Everton were O'Brien (classic),  Ndiaye, Iroegbunam (PSR move?), Lindstrom on loan, then some other crap frees and loans - pretty solid business. Sub £50m spend and about £30m up overall.

Year before Beto (looks pretty good now, classic Dyche signing), Chermiti looks a bust, plus other crap frees and loans.

22/23 is quite Dyche-y but that was his first window.

 

He's signed enough decent players too all the while they've made net profits. Essentially we could do a lot worse it'd just require sensible signings that would work for both him and future managers but we can't do that, irrespective of the manager.