General News Thread

[leicsmac]

10 minutes ago, danny. said:

It really wasn’t, you’re projecting as the USA is a fundamental part of your worldview. Many people barely give the USA a thought.

The Venn diagram of people holding anti-EU and pro-US viewpoints in the

UK is practically a circle, then and now. The whole idea of independent decision making was a falsehood fed to those who (as you say) don't give the US a thought. The functional intent of those with power wanting to leave the EU (and therefore those directing the campaign) was, however, exactly as stated imo. 

 

Edit: and given events both current and previous, and the desire of the current US administration for everyone to pick a side (as it were), then perhaps the UK and folks who don't give it a thought should actually pick one, or have it picked for them. 

 

14 minutes ago, Lionator said:

these people will call themselves British patriots while licking the ass of the lunatic in chief and slamming the very reasonable and sensible position of the British PM. 

Case in point for the above. 

Edited 3 March by leicsmac

[st albans fox]

1 hour ago, leicsmac said:

Also, the amount of misinformation being spouted practically everywhere on the Web makes it very, very difficult to really parse what's actually going on out there. 

 

Especially when all official parties involved have a very good track record as liars too. 

It’s war 

the first casualty etc etc 

 

can’t rely on the veracity of stuff coming out of Iran but at least Al Jazeera are on the ground there. we don’t know how ‘minded’ they are.  Plenty of western press in Israel with live feeds so pretty easy to know that most of the rubbish on social media is precisely that. The number of people who were certain that BN had fled to Germany was astonishing, even when he popped up at the scene of the missile strike yesterday and spoke, some claimed it was a body double!  (This was after he had appeared on the roof of a tel aviv building on Sunday ). 
 

it’s such a cesspit but occasionally it’s amusing to see what people believe (bit worrying ). 
 

the mainstream media have to be the go to place in times like this. They will draw on social media if they believe it’s real. (As they did with the downed F-15’s yesterdays) 

[leicsmac]

Just now, st albans fox said:

It’s war 

the first casualty etc etc 

 

can’t rely on the veracity of stuff coming out of Iran but at least Al Jazeera are on the ground there. we don’t know how ‘minded’ they are.  Plenty of western press in Israel with live feeds so pretty easy to know that most of the rubbish on social media is precisely that. The number of people who were certain that BN had fled to Germany was astonishing, even when he popped up at the scene of the missile strike yesterday and spoke, some claimed it was a body double!  (This was after he had appeared on the roof of a tel aviv building on Sunday ). 
 

it’s such a cesspit but occasionally it’s amusing to see what people believe (bit worrying ). 
 

the mainstream media have to be the go to place in times like this. They will draw on social media if they believe it’s real. (As they did with the downed F-15’s yesterdays) 

Perhaps we're actually hitting the point where there is so much proven slop that people do actually start going back to sources with proven track records. 

 

I guess we'll find out.

[danny.]

10 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

The Venn diagram of people holding anti-EU and pro-US viewpoints in the

UK is practically a circle, then and now.

Source for that?

[leicsmac]

14 minutes ago, danny. said:

Source for that?

https://www.ipsos.com/en/global-opinion-polls/state-special-relationship-between-uk-and-us

 

"Almost half (49%) of those who voted for Nigel Farage’s Reform UK party in the last general election are fans of Trump, while 30% aren’t."

 

https://www.bestforbritain.org/uk_trading_partner

 

"2024 Reform UK Voters stand alone in having not changed their view on the US between November 2024 and September 2025, continuing to see the US as the UK’s most reliable partner and a country we can trust. The declines in Reform Voters’ ‘scores’ for the US on measures of trust and reliability were not statistically significant."

 

Now, this is operating on the assumption that Reform as a party and voting bloc aren't a fan of the EU, but I would have thought that would stand by itself without further backup. (I will provide further proofs of that on request, though.)

 

In any case, it's hardly a stretch to at least hypothesise that folks who harbour anti-EU sentiment tend also to harbour pro-US sentiment given the ideological divide between those two entities. 

 

Edited 3 March by leicsmac

[foxes1988]

34 minutes ago, danny. said:

It really wasn’t, you’re projecting as the USA is a fundamental part of your worldview. Many people barely give the USA a thought.

I think you're right in that the general leave voter doesn't/didn't give the USA barely a thought. But the right winger politicians advocating and pushing Brexit definitely were/are pinning for the US in the geopolitical realm the general American political model in almost every way 

[Sampson]

Latest yougov poll has Greens only 2 points behind Reform now and Reform dropped from 33% to 23% in less than 6 months.

 

Reform 23%
Greens 21%
Labour 16%
Con 16%
Lib Dem 14%

[danny.]

18 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

https://www.ipsos.com/en/global-opinion-polls/state-special-relationship-between-uk-and-us

 

"Almost half (49%) of those who voted for Nigel Farage’s Reform UK party in the last general election are fans of Trump, while 30% aren’t."

 

https://www.bestforbritain.org/uk_trading_partner

 

"2024 Reform UK Voters stand alone in having not changed their view on the US between November 2024 and September 2025, continuing to see the US as the UK’s most reliable partner and a country we can trust. The declines in Reform Voters’ ‘scores’ for the US on measures of trust and reliability were not statistically significant."

 

Now, this is operating on the assumption that Reform as a party and voting bloc aren't a fan of the EU, but I would have thought that would stand by itself without further backup. (I will provide further proofs of that on request, though.)

 

In any case, it's hardly a stretch to at least hypothesise that folks who harbour anti-EU sentiment tend also to harbour pro-US sentiment given the ideological divide between those two entities. 

 

We are you talking about Reform - you said 
"The "vote Leave" wasn't about any high minded ideas of "sovereignty", it was about continuing to be a small part of ongoing maniacal American hegemony."

Reform didn't exist in 2016. And please don't say "Farage, so all the same" because that is a conflation of a complex situation. Leave/stay wasn't a left/right thing. Farage wanted to leave, but so did Corbyn.

 

[danny.]

Just now, Sampson said:

Latest yougov poll has Greens only 2 points behind Reform now and Reform dropped from 33% to 23% in less than 6 months.

 

Reform 23%
Greens 21%
Labour 16%
Con 16%
Lib Dem 14%

Because people are seeing through Reform that it's just another project for Farage to get attention and money.

[Amin]

2 minutes ago, Sampson said:

Latest yougov poll has Greens only 2 points behind Reform now and Reform dropped from 33% to 23% in less than 6 months.

 

Reform 23%
Greens 21%
Labour 16%
Con 16%
Lib Dem 14%

Imagine showing that to someone 5 years a go. Absolutely nuts.

[CosbehFox]

I think the right's reaction is representative of how lobbying and donors has completely skewed our political system. 

 

Reform principally a political party suggesting Britain should look after itself, sorting itself and dedicate major time to immigration are wanting the UK to go into the Middle East with the US to fight a war (at the risk of a further immigration population). Such is their loyalty to Trump, Bannon and anyone else what's given time/money towards them. Bought opinion. 

 

By comparison, Restore with their collection of racists are actually far more rationale and now laying out policy what concentrates on Britain principally. Policies over playing fields and playgrounds. The British high street and its collapse. This type of concentration is going to score well in my opinion if they can find the funding. 

 

Equally, It's no different to say how Labour and The Green Party can be on subjects. But lobbying and the donor system is a ****ing disgrace. 

Edited 3 March by CosbehFox

[leicsmac]

22 minutes ago, danny. said:

We are you talking about Reform - you said 
"The "vote Leave" wasn't about any high minded ideas of "sovereignty", it was about continuing to be a small part of ongoing maniacal American hegemony."

Reform didn't exist in 2016. And please don't say "Farage, so all the same" because that is a conflation of a complex situation. Leave/stay wasn't a left/right thing. Farage wanted to leave, but so did Corbyn.

 

You know something, I was too glib and pithy in that original statement, so fair for pulling me up on it. 

 

To moderate, I would agree with what @foxes1988 said above on the matter.

[Sampson]

41 minutes ago, danny. said:

Because people are seeing through Reform that it's just another project for Farage to get attention and money.

That was always clear though. I think why he’s lost so much support the past few months is that he’s openly been cheering on America and Trump over Britain, which when he claims to be the patriotic option makes his patriotism look really fake. I think this cheering on Trump in Iran when most British people don’t want us to invade and remember the scars of Iran only hurt him more 

[danny.]

1 minute ago, Sampson said:

That was always clear though. I think why he’s lost so much support the past few months is that he’s openly been cheering on America and Trump over Britain, which when he claims to be the patriotic option makes his patriotism look really fake. I think this cheering on Trump in Iran when most British people don’t want us to invade and remember the scars of Iran only hurt him more 

Maybe to you, and maybe to a lot of people. But not to many, otherwise they wouldn't have been polling so high for so long. He's a very charismatic and charming man (almost certainly a psychopath) and I think that a lot of people genuinely thought, and still think, that he's some kind of saviour to fix all the country's problems.

[BKLFox]

You’re talking about a Brexit vote born in 2016 so any perception of alignment with the US would have been taken from before that date, no?

 

Wasn’t Obama in office from 2009-17 & his term(s) were generally considered a success weren’t they, didn’t people want more Obama’s in the world around that time?

[danny.]

1 minute ago, BKLFox said:

You’re talking about a Brexit vote born in 2016 so any perception of alignment with the US would have been taken from before that date, no?

 

Wasn’t Obama in office from 2009-17 & his term(s) were generally considered a success weren’t they, didn’t people want more Obama’s in the world around that time?

Something that bemuses me, people DID like Obama, and I don't think there was much difference between the US then and now.

Obama oversees > 3m ICE deportations = fine
Trump ICE deportations = racist/nazi/fascist

Obama led operations in Libya = fine

Trump led operations in Venezuela = racist/nazi/fascist

I maintain it's just the face of the country that people have a problem with, not their actions.

[Mark_w]

1 hour ago, Sampson said:

Latest yougov poll has Greens only 2 points behind Reform now and Reform dropped from 33% to 23% in less than 6 months.

 

Reform 23%
Greens 21%
Labour 16%
Con 16%
Lib Dem 14%

I don’t think YouGov have ever had Reform as high as 33%, their Reform figure has consistently been a bit lower than most of the other polling companies.

[grth2004]

24 minutes ago, Sampson said:

That was always clear though. I think why he’s lost so much support the past few months is that he’s openly been cheering on America and Trump over Britain, which when he claims to be the patriotic option makes his patriotism look really fake. I think this cheering on Trump in Iran when most British people don’t want us to invade and remember the scars of Iran only hurt him more 

Yeah I think also Reform are loosing alot of Voters since they started employing all those Tory cast offs.
Doesn’t go down well when the person criticising a problem policy is the person that put the problem policy in there in the first place 🤦‍♂️. 

[leicsmac]

15 minutes ago, danny. said:

Something that bemuses me, people DID like Obama, and I don't think there was much difference between the US then and now.

Obama oversees > 3m ICE deportations = fine
Trump ICE deportations = racist/nazi/fascist

Obama led operations in Libya = fine

Trump led operations in Venezuela = racist/nazi/fascist

I maintain it's just the face of the country that people have a problem with, not their actions.

On matters of foreign policy and immigration, there could be an argument there. 

 

Just don't ask about various parts of policy including women's and LGBT rights (though thankfully the Supreme Court is actually holding the line somewhat there) and practically any scientific policy, many of which have effects that will cause consequences for everyone, not just Americans. 

[CosbehFox]

33 minutes ago, Sampson said:

That was always clear though. I think why he’s lost so much support the past few months is that he’s openly been cheering on America and Trump over Britain, which when he claims to be the patriotic option makes his patriotism look really fake. I think this cheering on Trump in Iran when most British people don’t want us to invade and remember the scars of Iran only hurt him more 

You have question the brains behind the Reform campaigning at the moment and whose advising them. 

 

- Their polling of Gorton & Denton was way off meaning Goodwin is now crying like a sore loser. 

- They've employed ex Tory ministers who were part of the reason the electorate gave up on the Tories. 

- They want be closer to Trump which according to a lot of research and polls is literal electoral suicide. 

- Support of UK services presence in the Middle East is similarly literal electoral suicide according to surveys and polls. 

 

They are being incredibly misguided at the moment. They've started to completely drop the ball on predominantly who their potential election winning voters were and now appear to be totally focused on ex-Conversative voters of a Boomer age group to get them through. 

 

They are policy by donor and funding. 

[Tommy G]

1 hour ago, Sampson said:

Latest yougov poll has Greens only 2 points behind Reform now and Reform dropped from 33% to 23% in less than 6 months.

 

Reform 23%
Greens 21%
Labour 16%
Con 16%
Lib Dem 14%

Who can look at Zack Polanski and think that he would be a good option as the next PM? As a bad as Farage for different reasons. I guess it's those that want Heroin on a prescription service.  

Edited 3 March by Tommy G

[leicsmac]

Also, know it's been said before but the polls are all over the place and wouldn't use them as any kind of predictor for 2029 right now. 

[MaidstoneFox]

1 hour ago, Sampson said:

Latest yougov poll has Greens only 2 points behind Reform now and Reform dropped from 33% to 23% in less than 6 months.

 

Reform 23%
Greens 21%
Labour 16%
Con 16%
Lib Dem 14%

I think taking in so many unpopular ex-tories like Braverman and Jenrick has been a bit of an own goal for Reform.

 

Long way to go and Labour could well change leader, but that points to lots of tactical voting and a coalition.

[21st Century Fox]

10 minutes ago, Tommy G said:

Who can look at Zack Polanski and think that he would be a good option as the next PM? As a bad as Farage for different reasons. I guess iy's those that want Heroin on a prescription service.  

It's the promise of bigger tits.

[foxes1988]

12 minutes ago, Tommy G said:

Who can look at Zack Polanski and think that he would be a good option as the next PM? As a bad as Farage for different reasons. I guess iy's those that want Heroin on a prescription service.  

There's wild promises from both Greens and Reform I guess in a weird way it's slightly reassuring that because Reform are liars and Bulls***tees some of their crazy policies seem less likely