England vs Argentina - Weds 15th July - 20.00 (BST)

[Super_horns]

24 minutes ago, spacemunky said:

Had to look that up!

 

Last time was 2002 and the only meetings between the two were all in WCs.

 

I guess no one ever considered a 'friendly'? 

We played them in a friendly in 2005  I think when Owen got a late winner .

 

But nothing since .

 

news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/internationals/4420426.stm

 

 

[Jaspa]

Rice & Saka haven't seemed 100% the whole tournament.

 

It'll be a huge moment if we beat Argentina in this semi. To actually have an investment in a World Cup Final, the build up, anticipation and the game. Anyway, Argentina in Atlanta to do first.

[RowlattsFox]

First genuine chance of something kicking off in the stands?

I know the more tetchy fans have been priced out but I have quite enjoyed the mingled aspect of the crowds, probably not got great for vocal atmosphere but still enjoyed it. 

 

 

[winteriscoming]

Really hope we batter these. 
But can’t see it. 
We haven’t beaten a top level team in the knockout stages since 66. 
We couldn’t even beat Croatia in 2018. 
I hope I’m completely wrong. 

[em9999]

20 hours ago, Izzy said:

People seeming to completely overlook the fact that this ‘poor’ Argentina side are currently ranked #2 in the world and ahead of England.

 

On his day Messi is still a world beater and match winner and Argentina will have the vast majority of fans in the stadium.
 

I fail to see what’s so ‘comfortable’ about all of this for England. 

Argentina are actually ranked 1st 

[RoboFox]

1 hour ago, RowlattsFox said:

First genuine chance of something kicking off in the stands?

I know the more tetchy fans have been priced out but I have quite enjoyed the mingled aspect of the crowds, probably not got great for vocal atmosphere but still enjoyed it. 

 

 

I've seen videos of a ginormous air fryer ham in an England shirt throwing hands with what look like three large toddlers in Argentina shirts at the Norway game. 

 

I feel like it's definitely going to kick off in some way or another here.

 

[ClaphamFox]

It’s interesting how differently this game is seen in Argentina compared to here. Judging from social media and comments from Argentine politicians, this game is about so much more than football. It is about their history, politics and sense of national identity. It’s about righting perceived historical wrongs and striking back against a despised enemy. Their fans chant about England whoever they’re playing, and even their players sing songs about the Falklands in the post-match dressing room celebrations.

 

Obviously, it’s a massive game for us too, but mainly for football reasons – the ‘animals’ of 1966, Maradona, Beckham’s red card and revenge from the penalty spot, etc. They’re definitely rivals, but not to the extent that anybody gives them much thought other than on the rare occasions we play them.

 

I’m curious to see how the Argentina players respond to bearing the weight of so much historical and political pressure as well as carrying the pressure of being in a WC semi-final. I just hope our players focus on the game and don’t get caught up in the opposition’s grievance-driven psychodrama. I get the feeling that if we put them under pressure and go ahead, they may become very rattled and start losing their discipline. That would be ideal.

[Finnegan]

2 minutes ago, ClaphamFox said:

It’s interesting how differently this game is seen in Argentina compared to here. Judging from social media and comments from Argentine politicians, this game is about so much more than football. It is about their history, politics and sense of national identity. It’s about righting perceived historical wrongs and striking back against a despised enemy. Their fans chant about England whoever they’re playing, and even their players sing songs about the Falklands in the post-match dressing room celebrations.

 

Obviously, it’s a massive game for us too, but mainly for football reasons – the ‘animals’ of 1966, Maradona, Beckham’s red card and revenge from the penalty spot, etc. They’re definitely rivals, but not to the extent that anybody gives them much thought other than on the rare occasions we play them.

 

I’m curious to see how the Argentina players respond to bearing the weight of so much historical and political pressure as well as carrying the pressure of being in a WC semi-final. I just hope our players focus on the game and don’t get caught up in the opposition’s grievance-driven psychodrama. I get the feeling that if we put them under pressure and go ahead, they may become very rattled and start losing their discipline. That would be ideal.

 

If we're honest, there's a bit of an overlap world wide between those who are the most vocal and fanatical fans of their country's football team and those who are prone to be influenced by nationalist and populist rhetoric and patriotic sentiment. 

 

The Falklands have mostly drifted out of consciousness for the majority of Brits but Argentine populist politicians still use the islands as an excuse to do some sabre rattling and drum up support in nationalist quarters. Given their equivalent of MAGA runs the country at the moment it's probably not a surprise that there's a big chunk of Argentine football fans that'll lean in to it. 

 

[JonnyZeroFox]

13 minutes ago, ClaphamFox said:

It’s interesting how differently this game is seen in Argentina compared to here. Judging from social media and comments from Argentine politicians, this game is about so much more than football. It is about their history, politics and sense of national identity. It’s about righting perceived historical wrongs and striking back against a despised enemy. Their fans chant about England whoever they’re playing, and even their players sing songs about the Falklands in the post-match dressing room celebrations.

 

Obviously, it’s a massive game for us too, but mainly for football reasons – the ‘animals’ of 1966, Maradona, Beckham’s red card and revenge from the penalty spot, etc. They’re definitely rivals, but not to the extent that anybody gives them much thought other than on the rare occasions we play them.

 

I’m curious to see how the Argentina players respond to bearing the weight of so much historical and political pressure as well as carrying the pressure of being in a WC semi-final. I just hope our players focus on the game and don’t get caught up in the opposition’s grievance-driven psychodrama. I get the feeling that if we put them under pressure and go ahead, they may become very rattled and start losing their discipline. That would be ideal.

Argentina will want this game to be chaotic. They’ll come out fast, pumped up, trying to make it messy and emotional, because that suits them more than us.
 

We have to stay cold and not get dragged into the antics. The big positive is now we are away from that altitude and brutal conditions of the last two games, back in a controlled stadium where we can actually play. I expect Tuchel and the team to be prepared and will know exactly what’s coming.

Edited 9 hours ago by JonnyZeroFox

[ClaphamFox]

8 minutes ago, JonnyZeroFox said:

Argentina will want this game to be chaotic. They’ll come out fast, pumped up, trying to make it messy and emotional, because that suits them more than us.
 

We have to stay cold and not get dragged into the antics. The big positive is now we are away from that altitude and brutal conditions of the last two games, back in a controlled stadium where we can actually play. I expect Tuchel and the team to be prepared and will know exactly what’s coming.

Agreed—that is exactly how they'll want it to be. We need to rise above it.

 

Tuchel is known for being a very good tournament manager who knows how to prepare his teams for one-off encounters like this. Time for him to prove it.

[Finnegan]

I dunno. I think an open game suits you more frankly. 

 

[AKCJ]

28 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

I dunno. I think an open game suits you more frankly. 

 

I dunno. I think we'll want to hit them on the break but in a controlled manner. If it turns into a ping-pong match then I think Messi will end up with far too much space and time on the ball.

[bovril]

I just can't believe England will ever get to a world cup final. It will not ever happen. 

[FoxesWalk]

1 hour ago, Finnegan said:

I dunno. I think an open game suits you more frankly. 

 

If it becomes open it 100% benefits England, especially with Messi offering almost nothing off the ball. We are a bigger, stronger and more athletic side all over the pitch. But they do have an intensity England may struggle to match. 
 

I personally think England could show up in a big way in this one… and if they do, it will be glorious, and the hype for the final is this country will be fantastic.
 

They are vulnerable in wide areas, and Englands whole system is built about wide triangles and rotations. We should also dominate set pieces. If Rice, Saka and James are fit to start… I reckon we score 3 or 4. 

Edited 8 hours ago by FoxesWalk

[Finnegan]

41 minutes ago, FoxesWalk said:

If it becomes open it 100% benefits England, especially with Messi offering almost nothing off the ball. We are a bigger, stronger and more athletic side all over the pitch. But they do have an intensity England may struggle to match. 
 

I personally think England could show up in a big way in this one… and if they do, it will be glorious, and the hype for the final is this country will be fantastic.
 

They are vulnerable in wide areas, and Englands whole system is built about wide triangles and rotations. We should also dominate set pieces. If Rice, Saka and James are fit to start… I reckon we score 3 or 4. 

 

I have a weird premonition that it's going to resemble the 2019 Rugby World Cup.

 

After a mixed tournament, England had the absolute game of their lives in the semi final, absolutely blitzed New Zealand, completely caught them out, won convincingly in one of their best performances in a generation.

 

Absolutely gassed themselves doing it, couldn't reach the same heights and got done in the final by the team that were simply the best in the world (Saffers.)

 

I reckon England will have their game of the tournament tomorrow. Think everyone will get pumped, you'll do Argentina scoring 3 or 4 in normal time, everyone will be elated, football's coming home, etc. Then you'll play significantly worse in the final and be comfortably done by either France or Spain.

 

[Foxdiamond]

Obviously want England to win the whole thing but doubt we will get past Argentina

[CosbehFox]

2 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

 

I have a weird premonition that it's going to resemble the 2019 Rugby World Cup.

 

After a mixed tournament, England had the absolute game of their lives in the semi final, absolutely blitzed New Zealand, completely caught them out, won convincingly in one of their best performances in a generation.

 

Absolutely gassed themselves doing it, couldn't reach the same heights and got done in the final by the team that were simply the best in the world (Saffers.)

 

I reckon England will have their game of the tournament tomorrow. Think everyone will get pumped, you'll do Argentina scoring 3 or 4 in normal time, everyone will be elated, football's coming home, etc. Then you'll play significantly worse in the final and be comfortably done by either France or Spain.

 

I’m with you on this. I think England are ‘due’ a performance but then the technical level of either opponent in the final will just leave them comprehensively outplayed 

[AKCJ]

11 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

 

I have a weird premonition that it's going to resemble the 2019 Rugby World Cup.

 

After a mixed tournament, England had the absolute game of their lives in the semi final, absolutely blitzed New Zealand, completely caught them out, won convincingly in one of their best performances in a generation.

 

Absolutely gassed themselves doing it, couldn't reach the same heights and got done in the final by the team that were simply the best in the world (Saffers.)

 

I reckon England will have their game of the tournament tomorrow. Think everyone will get pumped, you'll do Argentina scoring 3 or 4 in normal time, everyone will be elated, football's coming home, etc. Then you'll play significantly worse in the final and be comfortably done by either France or Spain.

 

France are simply levels above everyone else.

 

I do think we beat Argentina and Spain though.

[Finnegan]

2 minutes ago, AKCJ said:

France are simply levels above everyone else.

 

I do think we beat Argentina and Spain though.

 

I dunno, I have a growing sneaky feeling Spain win the lot.

 

I mean who ****ing knows really, none of us do. I'd say France, Spain and England are all completely capable of turning up on the day and winning the whole lot. Argies a bit less so but still, who knows? It's knockout football.

 

But I definitely think the Spanish are being under-estimated. Only 6% of respondents to the BBC's "who'll win" poll had Spain, just seems wild to me. They're not THAT far outsiders. They're probably the best collective team in the tournament.

 

[AKCJ]

3 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

 

I dunno, I have a growing sneaky feeling Spain win the lot.

 

I mean who ****ing knows really, none of us do. I'd say France, Spain and England are all completely capable of turning up on the day and winning the whole lot. Argies a bit less so but still, who knows? It's knockout football.

 

But I definitely think the Spanish are being under-estimated. Only 6% of respondents to the BBC's "who'll win" poll had Spain, just seems wild to me. They're not THAT far outsiders. They're probably the best collective team in the tournament.

 

I think we win 7 in 10 against Argentina, 6 in 10 against Spain and 3 in 10 against France.

 

I do think that Spain are France's biggest threat though.

[Nick]

19 hours ago, 21st Century Fox said:

I imagine they’ll be targeting Bellingham to get their Beckham moment. He’s shown a few times he can go in a bit rash when he’s amped up.

Most definitely.

[Miquel The Work Geordie]

1 hour ago, Finnegan said:

I have a weird premonition that it's going to resemble the 2019 Rugby World Cup.

 

Keep your "hands in the ruck sir" nonsense out of the football chat please

[STEVIE B]

50 minutes ago, AKCJ said:

I think we win 7 in 10 against Argentina, 6 in 10 against Spain and 3 in 10 against France.

 

I do think that Spain are France's biggest threat though.

We've only beaten Spain 3 times this century, drew 1 & lost 6. 

[Dan]

1 hour ago, Finnegan said:

 

I have a weird premonition that it's going to resemble the 2019 Rugby World Cup.

 

After a mixed tournament, England had the absolute game of their lives in the semi final, absolutely blitzed New Zealand, completely caught them out, won convincingly in one of their best performances in a generation.

 

Absolutely gassed themselves doing it, couldn't reach the same heights and got done in the final by the team that were simply the best in the world (Saffers.)

 

I reckon England will have their game of the tournament tomorrow. Think everyone will get pumped, you'll do Argentina scoring 3 or 4 in normal time, everyone will be elated, football's coming home, etc. Then you'll play significantly worse in the final and be comfortably done by either France or Spain.

 

I think pretty much exactly this. I think whoever wins tomorrow will go home happy with their tournament regardless of what happens Sunday, which is similar to how I felt about Norway at the weekend and why I didn't think they'd beat England.

[AKCJ]

2 minutes ago, STEVIE B said:

We've only beaten Spain 3 times this century, drew 1 & lost 6. 

Does that really matter?

Since 2004 Leeds have only beaten us 7 times out of 27 games. Hard to say they wouldn't batter us right now.