Absolute *** of our time Pt.MXXVI

[Jon the Hat]

While many in the broader population might think that, the excuse-making so-called intelligensia will seek to convince us that:

a) They might not be guilty.

b) They are only aresholes because of their upbringing and it's therefore someone else's fault.

c) They might well reform anyway and become really nice guys.

Not that the intelligensia will take responsibility for getting it wrong if the reality is that the offenders are subsequently released and go on to commit more hideous crimes and cost even more lives. Which we all know is so often the case.

I've always believed that if our worst criminals are removed from society once and for all there is virtually no chance of getting it wrong. Deportation to the central Antarctic and consequent banishment from Britain still has great appeal to me.

Even our resident lawyer admits to not knowing the answers some time and that's entirely understandable because there aren't any "answers" that are acceptable to all as well as being effective and foolproof.

So, given that, you have to accept that there will be mistakes on occasions and do your best to stand up for the greater good ie the protection of the general population. There is no doubting the crime and no doubting it should be effectively punished. Effectively meaning that they don't get the chance to do it again - or worse.

On point b you along with it seems most of the population miss the point. Our brains do most of their physical development befor the age of 3. After that the actualy ability to change the WAY we think, is serverely limited. After all if we cannot reason and get people to understand that their behaviour is not acceptable, either by punishment or empathy, then there is no hope really.

This pretty much makes the chance of genuinely being reformed impossible, however we can only hope adult self control is better, in say the case of the two who killed Jamie Bulger.

Edited 7 September 2009 by Jon the Hat

[Jon the Hat]

There is an argument amongst criminologists that you will never be able to eradicate criminal behaviour from society. Some go as far to say that criminality is necessary for a functioning society.

Chew over that one.

Fully agree. But not necessarily becuase people behaviour cannot be changed, but becuase the concept of criminalilty will inevitably move with any change in behaviour. So if people stop breaking the laws as they stand, new laws would be introduced to make minor things illegal. After all we have laws and the judiciary not to ensure a set standard of behaviour but to be able to ensure that what is deemed acceptable at the time is generaly followed.

[Guest]

Fully agree. But not necessarily becuase people behaviour cannot be changed, but becuase the concept of criminalilty will inevitably move with any change in behaviour. So if people stop breaking the laws as they stand, new laws would be introduced to make minor things illegal. After all we have laws and the judiciary not to ensure a set standard of behaviour but to be able to ensure that what is deemed acceptable at the time is generaly followed.

You've studied criminology?

[StanSP]

There is an argument amongst criminologists that you will never be able to eradicate criminal behaviour from society. Some go as far to say that criminality is necessary for a functioning society.

Chew over that one.

Can't have the good without the bad?

[Thracian]

There is an argument amongst criminologists that you will never be able to eradicate criminal behaviour from society. Some go as far to say that criminality is necessary for a functioning society.

Chew over that one.

I don't need to be a crimonologist to accept part one. It's obvious to one and all.

And while debate may present a case for point b (and I'd quite like to hear it), is the knock on that our leaders should therefore somehow encourage criminality (as they already do in some ways) to therefore maintain the wellbeing of the nation?

And if they do, I wonder how the victims would feel about that? if anyone bothers asking of course.

[Father Ted]

While many in the broader population might think that, the excuse-making so-called intelligensia will seek to convince us that:

a) They might not be guilty.

b) They are only aresholes because of their upbringing and it's therefore someone else's fault.

c) They might well reform anyway and become really nice guys.

Not that the intelligensia will take responsibility for getting it wrong if the reality is that the offenders are subsequently released and go on to commit more hideous crimes and cost even more lives. Which we all know is so often the case.

I've always believed that if our worst criminals are removed from society once and for all there is virtually no chance of getting it wrong. Deportation to the central Antarctic and consequent banishment from Britain still has great appeal to me.

Even our resident lawyer admits to not knowing the answers some time and that's entirely understandable because there aren't any "answers" that are acceptable to all as well as being effective and foolproof.

So, given that, you have to accept that there will be mistakes on occasions and do your best to stand up for the greater good ie the protection of the general population. There is no doubting the crime and no doubting it should be effectively punished. Effectively meaning that they don't get the chance to do it again - or worse.

Obviously, from what the media have reported that their upbringing was poor. A drug-addicted mother who gave them little attention and a violent father. Clearly home life wasn't great for them and I lie a lot of the blame on the parents, particularly the mother. Having 5 children from 3 different men and putting cannabis on your childrens food so they sleep better says it all really.

Although, I was listening to the radio the other day and they believe that their problems are that deep there is almost no chance of them being normal people.

[Bellend Sebastian]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8240942.stm

Hardly surprising. It would be a pretty radical change in policy, but one that's worth exploring further, I think personally

[Jon the Hat]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8240942.stm

Hardly surprising. It would be a pretty radical change in policy, but one that's worth exploring further, I think personally

We have certainly gone too far in the direction of child stays with the mother regardless. The problem is that it would be very easy to go too far the other way. Studies have shown that social workers like the rest of us are predisposed to sticking with our initial judgement in the face of evidence which should change that judgement. So if you give them more power then they can do more damage. It is certainly the case now that we are spending a fortune trying to deal with the problems to far down the line. Personally I would support a plan which offered early intervention with the clear threat of removal if things did not improve. Put the onus on the parents to change the way they are doing things and if they don't then take action. I don't think you can take that action if you have not supported the changes required.

[Bellend Sebastian]

Demonising children seems to be the in thing, but this is taking things a bit too far:

http://www.thisisleicestershire.co.uk/news...il/article.html

[Steven]

I hope the members of this gang feel happy.

http://www.thisisleicestershire.co.uk/news...il/article.html

[Bilo]

I hope the members of this gang feel happy.

http://www.thisisleicestershire.co.uk/news...il/article.html

I was disgusted when I heard about this on the news last night. Some people really do not belong in a civilised society.

[Jon the Hat]

I was disgusted when I heard about this on the news last night. Some people really do not belong in a civilised society.

You have to wonder how exactly that kind of shit can go on for 7 years without anyone helping her. Police? Family? Friends? Desperately sad.

[Dr The Singh]

You have to wonder how exactly that kind of shit can go on for 7 years without anyone helping her. Police? Family? Friends? Desperately sad.

Very sad indeed, tortured to the point of breakage!!

[Guest]

You have to wonder how exactly that kind of shit can go on for 7 years without anyone helping her. Police? Family? Friends? Desperately sad.

I was thinking the same thing.

[Steven]

Mrs Cassell said that, in the end, her daughter (the dead mother) 'just gave up'. She and Francecca, known as Frankie, were found in a lay-by at Earl Shilton, Leicestershire. A pile of clothes in the back of their Austin Maestro had been soaked in petrol and set on fire.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12...scape-yobs.html

[Thracian]

You have to wonder how exactly that kind of shit can go on for 7 years without anyone helping her. Police? Family? Friends? Desperately sad.

The response of the Police to various pleas was indefensible.

There's endless wind and piss but no-one takes responsibility. In fact the endless shifting of responsibility in public service now is as endemic as it is pathetic.

[lou]

The response of the Police to various pleas was indefensible.

There's endless wind and piss but no-one takes responsibility. In fact the endless shifting of responsibility in public service now is as endemic as it is pathetic.

Agree it was unbelievable they did nothing to help this poor family. Instead the thugs who are responsible for 2 horrific deaths are granted anonimity and continue to behave in the same manner.

[Jon the Hat]

Agree it was unbelievable they did nothing to help this poor family. Instead the thugs who are responsible for 2 horrific deaths are granted anonimity and continue to behave in the same manner.

I was quite surprised to hear that the mum had in fact called the police only 7 times since 2001. This is to be fair not quite the constant calls that the media gave the impression of. Still very sad, but I am now struggling to condemn a police force which probably had 3 or 4 changes of computer system in that time.. Still I suppose this does suggests a belief that calling them was a waste of time, which is terrible in itself.

[lou]

I was quite surprised to hear that the mum had in fact called the police only 7 times since 2001. This is to be fair not quite the constant calls that the media gave the impression of. Still very sad, but I am now struggling to condemn a police force which probably had 3 or 4 changes of computer system in that time.. Still I suppose this does suggests a belief that calling them was a waste of time, which is terrible in itself.

Changing computer system is no excuse for leaving a vunerable family to cope with this sustained abuse for years. Im not a computer expert but Id have though it was fairly standard to transfer all data from one system to the other?

Thats not what the inquest said......... she called them dozens of times (I think I remember 33 being mentioned) and 8 times in 2004 alone so I dont know where you got 7 times since 2001 from?

[Zingari]

animals

Man loses half his head in brutal attack

Friday, September 11, 2009

Two thugs who punched a young man so hard that he has been left with half a head have got off scot free.

Devastated Steve Gator, 26, has had half his skull removed by surgeons after he smashed his head off the pavement in the brutal attack.

Now the horribly disfigured forklift driver has been told that the teenage brutes who ambushed him will escape justice after Crown Prosecution Service bosses dropped the case.

http://www.metro.co.uk/news/article.html?M...p;in_page_id=34

[Jon the Hat]

Changing computer system is no excuse for leaving a vunerable family to cope with this sustained abuse for years. Im not a computer expert but Id have though it was fairly standard to transfer all data from one system to the other?

Thats not what the inquest said......... she called them dozens of times (I think I remember 33 being mentioned) and 8 times in 2004 alone so I dont know where you got 7 times since 2001 from?

Wierd, they said 7 on the news, on some kind of timeline thing. Maybe the police only noted 7 calls "connected" if you see what I mean. Previous comments withdrawn. Wankers.

[Zingari]

Three men have been convicted of raping a member of their own family as she grew up.

The three, who cannot be named to protect the victim, were the woman's stepfather, step-uncle and step-cousin.

The judge at Cardiff Crown Court told the men, who had denied all charges, they face long prison terms when they are sentenced next month.

The court had previously heard that the woman was abused from the age of five to 22, and she became pregnant at 14.

The step-uncle, 55, was convicted of seven counts of rape, three of indecency with a child and one of indecent assault.

The stepfather, 50, and step-cousin, 27, were each convicted of three rapes.

The court was told that both the step-uncle and stepfather are illegal immigrants.

Judge Patrick Curran adjourned sentence until 16 October and told the men they inevitably faced long periods of imprisonment.

In the case of the stepfather and step-uncle, he said he was considering indefinite sentences for public protection.

During the trial, the court was told that when the woman fell pregnant at the age of 14 she was hidden away, sometimes in a wardrobe.

The jury heard the woman allegedly told her mother that her step-uncle was the father but was not believed.

Prosecutor Marion Lewis said the first time she saw a doctor, she was seven months pregnant.

"When the baby was born the girl's parents told friends and neighbours it was their own - before flying their daughter to India for an arranged marriage," she said.

'Repeatedly abused'

The step-uncle agreed in court he was the father of her child but told the jury he had not found out until much later once DNA tests were carried out.

Miss Lewis said the girl went to police last year and told officers she had been repeatedly abused from the age of five.

"She was frightened and also believed her mother knew what was going on," she said.

"When aged 14 and a pupil at school, her stomach was expanding and a scan revealed she was seven months pregnant.

"Her mother beat her all over her body apart from the face with a curtain pole."

The jury had been told that when the girl was 18, she was married in India before later returning to the family in Cardiff.

Miss Lewis said: "Back in Cardiff the abuse resumed and her husband later divorced her."

While her step-uncle continued his abuse, the court heard that her stepfather and step-cousin then raped her as well.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/south_east/8283606.stm

[lou]

Christ... poor girl. I cannot imagine the horror of being trapped in that situation with absolutely no one in the world to turn to..... not even your own Mother.

[Zingari]

Christ... poor girl. I cannot imagine the horror of being trapped in that situation with absolutely no one in the world to turn to..... not even your own Mother.

the mother's involvement made it all the more horrific to me ( sexist i know ) , let's just hope it is a very rare occurrence

[Guest]

I didn't want to post this, but Jan Moir, take a bow.