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lavrentis

Legalise cannabis?

Legalise?  

487 members have voted

  1. 1. Should Marijuana be legal?

    • Yes
      293
    • No
      194


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Glad to see talk for legalisation is becoming more mainstream. Sadly though, this is probably just Sadiq trying to get votes for the upcoming mayor election. 

 

Going through the early pages of this thread back to 2011 & I have to say, lots of people were extremely misinformed. The research into cannabis particularly its medicinal benefits, has really accelerated in the past 10 years. 

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Haven't used cannabis for about 20 years and when I did, it was extremely rare.

 

What interests me in this is the development of it by companies.

 

Could definitely be worth investing a few quid in the companies that already deal with medical marijuana. If they're already working with it, it would make sense that they would be licensed to distribute it.

 

I thought about 6 months ago, the country is virtually bankrupt after Covid. Best way to raise money without making taxes extortionate...

 

Legalise cannabis and make money off the tax. 

 

We all know people use it and you won't stop it, so make it legal and put hundreds of millions of pounds back in to the economy.

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1 hour ago, Buce said:

Mayor of London to examine benefits of cannabis legalisation

The mayor of London is to launch a review examining the feasibility of decriminalising cannabis as part of a new approach to tackling drug-related crime.

Should he be re-elected on 6 May, Sadiq Khan said he would set up an independent London drugs commission to examine the potential health, economic and criminal justice benefits of decriminalising the class-B drug.

 

Khan believes there is widespread public support for a more relaxed approach to decriminalisation, citing polls showing more than half of the UK – and nearly two-thirds of those in the capital – support legalising cannabis for adult recreational use.

Although he has ruled out the decriminalisation of class-A drugs such as heroin and cocaine, Khan is willing to consider supporting changes to the legal status of cannabis if that is what the commission concludes.

“It will be for the commission to look at the evidence in the round, but nothing is off the table in the context of what is best for public health and keeping Londoners safe,” said a source close to the mayor.

The announcement of the proposal to set up a London drugs commission is expected to be part of Khan’s mayoral election manifesto, published on Tuesday.

Khan will say fresh ideas are needed to counter the illegal drugs trade, which is damaging both Londoners’ health and their communities, as well as fuelling an increase in organised and violent crime. Too many young people are criminalised for use of of drugs, he believes.

The illegal drug trade in the UK is estimated to cost society £19bn per year, according to the mayor’s office. About 41,900 people across England and Wales were charged with drug-related offences last year. Legalising and regulating the sale of cannabis would raise at least £1bn in taxes for the Treasury, according to some estimates.

But formally adopting such a position could put him out of step with the Labour leader, who recently said he was opposed to decriminalisation. The current drugs laws were “roughly right”, Keir Starmer told Sky News, though he added that there was “always room for a grown-up debate about how we deal with these cases”.

The London drug commission, which would be comprised of independent experts from criminal justice, public health, politics, community relations and academia, would examine how countries around the world have tackled problems with drug use and addiction.

This is likely to include looking at evidence from Portugal, where possession and consumption of drugs have been decriminalised since 2001 as part of a wider approach to drugs, including improved treatment programmes and better prevention, education and social support services.

It is also likely to consider the experiences of Canada, Uruguay and several US states, where cannabis for recreational use has been legalised. Private use of cannabis is allowed in Spain, while Dutch coffee shops have long sold marijuana.

The commission would collate the latest evidence on the effectiveness of UK drug laws, police enforcement and addiction support services. It would report to the mayor with recommendations for City Hall, the government, the police, the criminal justice system, and NHS and treatment services.

Although Khan does not have the powers to introduce new laws, he believes that should the commission recommend decriminalisation of cannabis, a mayoral endorsement would give it a boost.

Khan, who has in the past called for “an evidence-based conversation” around cannabis, will say: “It’s time for fresh ideas about how to reduce the harms drugs and drug-related crimes cause to individuals, families and communities.

“The commission will make recommendations focusing on the most effective laws to tackle crime, protect Londoners’ health, and reduce the huge damage that illegal drugs, including cannabis, cause to our communities and society.”

In 2019 the cross-party Commons health committee called for the government to consult on the decriminalisation of drug possession for personal use. It said taking a health-based approach would benefit users and reduce harm and costs to the wider community.

The Survation survey cited by the mayor’s office, published in July 2019, found that 63% of London residents backed the legalisation and regulation of cannabis, while just 19% opposed the idea. Across the UK as a whole, 47% backed legalisation, with 30% against.

Believe it when I see it.  The government have carried out plenty enough studies, but only so they can say they're acting on the science when they ignore it.

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  • 7 months later...

Germany moves to legalise cannabis in economy-boosting bid after Merkel departure

GERMANY will decriminalise certain sale and consumption rules of cannabis in a significant drug policy change for the ruling coalition government, according to reports.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1523645/germany-news-legalise-cannabis-economy-angela-merkel

 

oh-my-god-its-happening.gif

 

Surely just a matter of time for us all. 

 

 

 

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20 minutes ago, Innovindil said:

Germany moves to legalise cannabis in economy-boosting bid after Merkel departure

GERMANY will decriminalise certain sale and consumption rules of cannabis in a significant drug policy change for the ruling coalition government, according to reports.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1523645/germany-news-legalise-cannabis-economy-angela-merkel

 

oh-my-god-its-happening.gif

 

Surely just a matter of time for us all. 

 

 

 

Sadly I think you are forgetting who's in charge and how archaic their ideas are. We can live in hope though.

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38 minutes ago, SecretPro said:

Sadly I think you are forgetting who's in charge and how archaic their ideas are. We can live in hope though.

 

Even if they did legalise it here it would be an over-taxed, under-strength product that would have every toker running back to their dealer quicker than you can roll a spliff.

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27 minutes ago, Buce said:

 

Even if they did legalise it here it would be an over-taxed, under-strength product that would have every toker running back to their dealer quicker than you can roll a spliff.

At least we'd have the choice of THC content available. It's a gamble at the moment. The option for something with more CBD less THC would be beneficial to many. 

Edited by LCFCCHRIS
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36 minutes ago, Vacamion said:

 

The Times had a comment article by Clare Foges yesterday which amounted to:

 

- Skunk is bad

- Reefer madness / Cannabis users are violent

- “Big Weed” is evil and driving the legalisation debate for the purposes of £

- the UK would be mad to follow the herd and consider legalising

 

All all of which can be pretty easily argued with, as it has been in this thread.

 

The Times letters page today started off with two “hear hear” letters and no detailed analysis/refutation of her points.

 

I wonder if those in charge at the newspaper of record have any financial interest in “Big Alcohol” ???

 

Just pandering to those paying subs and who like to get angry after paying for web access. The Telegraph demographic isn’t up for radical changes in policy unless it’s going to make them richer.

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10 hours ago, Vacamion said:

 

The Times had a comment article by Clare Foges yesterday which amounted to:

 

- Skunk is bad

- Reefer madness / Cannabis users are violent

- “Big Weed” is evil and driving the legalisation debate for the purposes of £

- the UK would be mad to follow the herd and consider legalising

 

All all of which can be pretty easily argued with, as it has been in this thread.

 

The Times letters page today started off with two “hear hear” letters and no detailed analysis/refutation of her points.

 

I wonder if those in charge at the newspaper of record have any financial interest in “Big Alcohol” ???

 

Two things :-

 

  1. CLARE FOGES: Why I blame alcohol for my sexual assault ordeal...
  2. The logic of her position on cannabis is that she is a member of a criminal cannabis gang as they are the only ones who benefit from it being illegal.
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11 hours ago, Vacamion said:

 

The Times had a comment article by Clare Foges yesterday which amounted to:

 

- Skunk is bad

- Reefer madness / Cannabis users are violent

- “Big Weed” is evil and driving the legalisation debate for the purposes of £

- the UK would be mad to follow the herd and consider legalising

 

All all of which can be pretty easily argued with, as it has been in this thread.

 

The Times letters page today started off with two “hear hear” letters and no detailed analysis/refutation of her points.

 

I wonder if those in charge at the newspaper of record have any financial interest in “Big Alcohol” ???

 

This is what I really struggle with, it's just so laughable. I can understand why some people have reservations about legalisation sure, but please for fuchs sake don't give me that, it's just so insultingly fallacious and the exact opposite of the truth.

 

How clueless can you be? How does a narrative like that come to exist?

 

 

 

 

 

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Is it also not possible that violent people, psychotic people and people who already have murderous intent might have taken cannabis and it did not prevent them from continuing to be violent, psychotic or murderous?

 

Are the prohibitionists suggesting that unless a drug turns a dangerous person into a safe person, the drug is beyond the pale?

 

 

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  • 2 weeks later...
1 hour ago, Buce said:

Malta to legalise cannabis for personal use in European first

Move by EU’s smallest member state likely to be followed by reform across rest of continent in 2022

 

Malta will this week become the first European country to legalise the cultivation and possession of cannabis for personal use, pipping Luxembourg to the post, as the continent undergoes a wave of change to its drug laws.

Possession of up to seven grams of the drug will be legal for those aged 18 and above, and it will permissible to grow up to four cannabis plants at home, with up to 50g of the dried leaves storable.

 

A vote in favour of the legislation in the Maltese parliament on Tuesday will be followed by the law being signed by the president in order for it to be enacted by the weekend, Owen Bonnici, the minister responsible, told the Guardian.

The move by Malta, the EU’s smallest member state, is likely to be followed by reform across Europe in 2022. Germany recently announced a move to establish a legally regulated market, following announcements from the governments of Switzerland, Luxembourg and the Netherlands. A referendum in Italy is planned, while Canada, Mexico and 18 US states have already enacted similar legislation.

Boris Johnson’s UK government has, in contrast, been accused of taking a Richard Nixon-style “war on drugs” approach after maintaining its tough approach to cannabis use and making criminal sanctions for the users of class A narcotics a central plank of its recently published 10-year strategy.

Bonnici said his government did not want to encourage the use of recreational drugs but that there was no evidence for the argument that the use of cannabis was in itself a gateway to harder substances.

He said: “There is a wave of understanding now that the hard-fist approach against cannabis users was disproportionate, unjust and it was rendering a lot of suffering to people who are leading exemplary lives. But the fact that they make use on a personal basis of cannabis is putting them in the jaws of criminality.

He added: “I’m very glad that Malta will be the first country which will put words in statute in a comprehensive manner with a regulatory authority”.

The change in approach by a number of European governments follows a decision by the UN last December to remove cannabis from a listing of drugs designated as potentially addictive and dangerous, and having little or no therapeutic use.

The Maltese approach seeks to avoid criminalising any cannabis use while regulating to ensure harm reduction, Bonnici said.

Possession of up to 28 grams will lead to a fine of €50-€100 but with no criminal record. Those under the age of 18 who are found in possession will go before a commission for justice for the recommendation of a care plan rather than face arrest. Those who consume cannabis in front of a child face fines of between €300 and €500.

Beyond allowing people to grow plants at home, albeit out of sight of the public, it will be legal for non-profit cannabis clubs to cultivate the drug for distribution among their members, similar to organisations tolerated in Spain and the Netherlands.

Club membership will be limited to 500 people and only up to 7 grams a day may be distributed to each person, with a maximum of 50 grams a month. The organisations, which cannot be situated less than 250 metres from a school, a club or a youth centre, may also distribute up to 20 seeds of the plant cannabis to each member every month.

Bonnici said his government had conducted a long debate over whether to put in controls on the strength of cannabis that can be grown and used, measured by the level of the key psychoactive, or mood-altering, ingredient, delta-9-tetrahydrocannabinol (TCH).

He said: “We had a huge discussion internally on that. And we concluded that if a limit [can be put] on the strength of the cannabis, the THC levels, you will be creating a new market for the black market. What we need to do is to educate people and inform them day after day.”

The Netherlands is possibly the European country most associated with a relaxed attitude toward the use of cannabis. However, recreational use, possession and trade is technically illegal there. The government instead has a gedoogbeleid, a “tolerance policy”, under which use is largely accepted within bounds. A trial is planned under which the production of the drug will be regulated.

 
 

Oh look, a forward thinking Government that isnt living in the dark ages.

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I wonder how this forum would react if the government tried to ban tobacco, as is likely to happen in that 'fair' and 'tolerant' Murdoch-free antipodean paradise aka New Zealand. As a non-smoker, it makes no difference to me, although I like inhaling other people's smoke. (The words in inverted commas are how another FTer recently described NZ.)   

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Just now, String fellow said:

I wonder how this forum would react if the government tried to ban tobacco, as is likely to happen in that 'fair' and 'tolerant' Murdoch-free antipodean paradise aka New Zealand. As a non-smoker, it makes no difference to me, although I like inhaling other people's smoke. (The words in inverted commas are how another FTer recently described NZ.)   

See the news thread

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1 minute ago, String fellow said:

Thanks, but the discussion there seems to be mainly reaction to New Zealand banning tobacco rather than the very unlikely possibility of the UK ever banning it, unless I'm looking in the wrong place.

I guess I'm assuming that people's views on it happening there would be effectively the same as their views on it happening here.

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On 13/12/2021 at 13:38, String fellow said:

I wonder how this forum would react if the government tried to ban tobacco, as is likely to happen in that 'fair' and 'tolerant' Murdoch-free antipodean paradise aka New Zealand. As a non-smoker, it makes no difference to me, although I like inhaling other people's smoke. (The words in inverted commas are how another FTer recently described NZ.)   


The difference is the rather stark affects both substances can have on an individual or those around the user: from what I’m aware there’s the rare chance of some mental issues if a cannabis user smoking regularly is too young, compared to the long list of potential health issues with tobacco use (I’m not sure if second hand smoke with cannabis doesn’t carry particularly large issues unless it’s being hotboxed? Happy to be proven wrong there as I haven’t seen any evidence either way). That’s without touching on the medicinal benefits of certain elements within cannabis, which I don’t believe there are any attached to tobacco. 
 

The thing that irks me (as a non-smoker I may add, and most smokers and anti-Prohibitionists I imagine agree) is the complete anti-science view taken towards cannabis by most authorities. I don’t think many would say it should be available to absolutely anybody to buy, and it’s probably best kept 18+, with warnings around those with predisposed mental afflictions. You can’t educate people on that if you’re just hammering them with ‘devil lettuce evil’ and the real facts and evidence around consumption will go unheard. 
 

That said I don’t think tobacco should necessarily be banned, but I understand the scientific justification behind it. Cannabis prohibition is completely nonsensical in how it’s presented. 

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