Game of Thrones - hide spoilers please.

[RoboFox]

15 hours ago, EnderbyFox said:

 

 

Echoing the attitude that the creators have seemingly taken to the entirety of season eight.

 

"We could've done it, but we couldn't be arsed." 

Edited 8 May 2019 by RoboFox

[Captain...]

2 hours ago, Footballwipe said:

Can I take some time here to ask a really dim question, as I've no idea.

 

Why didn't Cersi, who just callously chopped someone's head off in cold blood, not shoot the stationary dragon and Dany there and then? Knocking out the "last dragon" and the one who wants her to abdicate would've solved a lot of her problems (Snow notwithstanding, of course).

 

What am I missing other than it being a plot device?

Lazy writing, let’s not even get started on the fast travel, basically they wanted to create a scene where Cersei kills missandei one of her trusted advisors, to drive Dany over the edge. But why they went there with a handful of soldiers clearly in shooting range and left themselves exposed to Cersei, the soldiers and crossbows at kings landing or the golden company who seemingly haven’t activated the fast travel cheat is beyond me. 

 

Why Cersei didn’t just kill Tyrion and why Dany didn’t just jump on her dragon and start torching KL again is beyond me. She wants to burn KL Tyrion keeps talking her off the edge, she clearly believes she can why not there and then light them up.

 

The last 2 seasons have looked spectacular but the plot armour, short cuts and the frequent illogical and bizarre decision making has just taken the whole show down a notch from essential groundbreaking tv to just really good.

Edited 8 May 2019 by Captain...

[RoboFox]

5 minutes ago, Captain... said:

Lazy writing, let’s not even get started on the fast travel, basically they wanted to create a scene where Cersei kills missandei one of her trusted advisors, to drive Dany over the edge. But why they went there with a handful of soldiers clearly in shooting range and left themselves exposed to Cersei, the soldiers and crossbows at kings landing or the golden company who seemingly haven’t activated the fast travel cheat is beyond me. 

 

Why Cersei didn’t just kill Tyrion and why Dany didn’t just jump on her dragon and start torching KL again is beyond me. She wants to burn KL Tyrion keeps talking her off the edge, she clearly believes she can why not there and then light them up.

 

The last 2 seasons have looked spectacular but the plot armour, short cuts and the frequent illogical and bizarre decision making has just taken the whole show down a notch from essential groundbreaking tv to just really good.

 

Let's not forget about Euron's stealth fleet that somehow managed to sneak attack a dragon that happened to be, y'know... IN THE SKY (and seemingly totally unnoticed by Dany), rapid-firing three crossbow bolts with 100% accuracy. Only then to miss with the next 1000 shots as Dany flies her dragon directly at them.

 

Then the bloke appears in pretty much the next scene, standing next to Cersei - probably talking about how much he wants to bonk her - at the gates of King's Landing. (Which for some unknown reason is now apparently in the middle of the desert...?)

 

The whole last 30 minutes was a complete and utter mess. The pacing all over the shop, the writing nonsensical. 

[EnderbyFox]

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Edited 9 May 2019 by EnderbyFox

[Legend_in_blue]

 

 

[Trav Le Bleu]

9 hours ago, Babylon said:

Because one got killed before it knew they were there and the last remaining one wasn't risked.

Despite ship mounted weapons with all the ships pointed in the same direction. If Dany had swung round and come in low from behind (especially once the Greyjoy fleet were firing on her fleet), Euron trouble.

 

But no, instead she's tactically inept. Very weak plotting.

[Trav Le Bleu]

8 hours ago, Captain... said:

Lazy writing, let’s not even get started on the fast travel, basically they wanted to create a scene where Cersei kills missandei one of her trusted advisors, to drive Dany over the edge. But why they went there with a handful of soldiers clearly in shooting range and left themselves exposed to Cersei, the soldiers and crossbows at kings landing or the golden company who seemingly haven’t activated the fast travel cheat is beyond me. 

 

Why Cersei didn’t just kill Tyrion and why Dany didn’t just jump on her dragon and start torching KL again is beyond me. She wants to burn KL Tyrion keeps talking her off the edge, she clearly believes she can why not there and then light them up.

 

The last 2 seasons have looked spectacular but the plot armour, short cuts and the frequent illogical and bizarre decision making has just taken the whole show down a notch from essential groundbreaking tv to just really good.

I wonder if it's just coincidence that it's at this point the TV series overtook the books.

 

 

I know GRRM has said the final book will be significantly different to the TV series, but I'm wondering whether I'll be bothered... that's if it'll ever happen.

[Babylon]

7 hours ago, Trav Le Bleu said:

Despite ship mounted weapons with all the ships pointed in the same direction. If Dany had swung round and come in low from behind (especially once the Greyjoy fleet were firing on her fleet), Euron trouble.

 

But no, instead she's tactically inept. Very weak plotting.

Who says the bows are fixed in position, or there aren’t rear facing ones as well. In terms of issues, it’s pretty low on the scale.

[Trav Le Bleu]

12 minutes ago, Babylon said:

Who says the bows are fixed in position, or there aren’t rear facing ones as well. In terms of issues, it’s pretty low on the scale.

There weren't any at the rear and if they were on turntables, you couldn't fire backwards without taking your masts out. Also reload time, given they were all firing on the fleet (also, as a new thought, firing level meant only the front ships could fire). Also, also armadas don't take you by surprise, especially when you're expecting them.

 

It was poorly done. Stop digging.

[Captain...]

1 hour ago, Trav Le Bleu said:

There weren't any at the rear and if they were on turntables, you couldn't fire backwards without taking your masts out. Also reload time, given they were all firing on the fleet (also, as a new thought, firing level meant only the front ships could fire). Also, also armadas don't take you by surprise, especially when you're expecting them.

 

It was poorly done. Stop digging.

The frustrating thing is it didn’t need to be that different, Dany sees Euron’s ships on the horizon, or they appear from behind a head land or island. Dragons go to roast the ships to clear a path not expecting giant crossbows. first volley wings Rhaegal gives Drogon something to think about, a couple of ships get burnt in the process. Rhaegal is now an easy target and gets killed. Drogon flies out of range while Dany’s fleet get massacred but swoops in from behind and starts laying waste to the Iron fleet who turn their focus on Drogon allowing some of the ships to escape so we don’t have to believe Tyrion and others all swam to shore and wouldn’t have been picked up by Euron like Missandei was.

 

In the process it exposes a weakness with Euron’s fleet with the crossbows they are not as manoeuvrable, they are much slower and have to anchor to use their crossbows, for example. Maybe there is an Ally of Danys who have a fleet and a score to settle with Euron.

Edited 9 May 2019 by Captain...

[yorkie1999]

9 hours ago, Trav Le Bleu said:

Despite ship mounted weapons with all the ships pointed in the same direction. If Dany had swung round and come in low from behind (especially once the Greyjoy fleet were firing on her fleet), Euron trouble.

 

But no, instead she's tactically inept. Very weak plotting.

I thought that, why did't she just circle round the back of them and burn them all.

[Goober]

9 hours ago, Trav Le Bleu said:

I wonder if it's just coincidence that it's at this point the TV series overtook the books.

 

 

I know GRRM has said the final book will be significantly different to the TV series, but I'm wondering whether I'll be bothered... that's if it'll ever happen.

 

Didn't he say the exact opposite? He's said the endings will be pretty much exactly the same

Edited 9 May 2019 by Goober

[EnderbyFox]

12 minutes ago, Goober said:

 

Didn't he say the exact opposite? He's said the endings will be pretty much exactly the same

 

I suspect he's gauging public opinion on how the TV show ends before deciding 

[Captain...]

50 minutes ago, Goober said:

 

Didn't he say the exact opposite? He's said the endings will be pretty much exactly the same

The endings will be the same, he gave them the bare bones of the story, something like Jon comes back from dead retakes winterfell from Ramsey, NK gets dragon burns down wall is defeated by Arya at Winterfell, Bran becomes an insufferable **** etc including who ends up on the throne at the end, but the way GRRM gets there will be very different, no fast travel, no stupid decision making, and no short cuts, it’s why it’s taking the poor bugger so long to write his books are twice as complex as the tv shows and he won’t just pointlessly kill people off to tie up plot lines.

[Goober]

1 minute ago, Captain... said:

The endings will be the same, he gave them the bare bones of the story, something like Jon comes back from dead retakes winterfell from Ramsey, NK gets dragon burns down wall is defeated by Arya at Winterfell, Bran becomes an insufferable **** etc including who ends up on the throne at the end, but the way GRRM gets there will be very different, no fast travel, no stupid decision making, and no short cuts, it’s why it’s taking the poor bugger so long to write his books are twice as complex as the tv shows and he won’t just pointlessly kill people off to tie up plot lines.

 

This is a valid point. And it does make me wonder why the showrunners don't get more sympathy in this regard. George is taking fvcking years to come to a satisfying conclusion in his books, whereas the showrunners are working off the cuff with probably the most basic of story outlines to work with from George. There are things they could've done differently no doubt, but people talk about them as if they're the anti-christ at times. There is no way they could've kept up the same complexity as the first few seasons. Not without having a new book to adapt in front of them.

 

Yeah the show is different to what it used to be but I still enjoy it immensely for what it is. I think they're doing a good job with what they've got. And i'm not really the type to have my enjoyment of the show ruined because 'Daenerys could've circled around the ships and attacked them from a lower angle' or something similar. Maybe i'm just a simpleton. 

 

Hopefully a great and satisfying ending to the show rewards my faith 

[The Bear]

Cersei didn't shoot the remaining dragon because it was placed well back out of range. 

 

And Dany didn't just get on it and burn Kings Landing because they had massive great arrows on all the battlements. 

[Babylon]

6 hours ago, Trav Le Bleu said:

There weren't any at the rear and if they were on turntables, you couldn't fire backwards without taking your masts out. Also reload time, given they were all firing on the fleet (also, as a new thought, firing level meant only the front ships could fire). Also, also armadas don't take you by surprise, especially when you're expecting them.

 

It was poorly done. Stop digging.

You're taking things far too seriously. 

[Trav Le Bleu]

2 hours ago, Babylon said:

You're taking things far too seriously. 

No, I'm pointing out massive, glaring errors that are just lazy story telling.

[Captain...]

8 hours ago, The Bear said:

 

Cersei didn't shoot the remaining dragon because it was placed well back out of range. 

 

Was it? Was it as far away as Rhaegal when it got shot out of the sky?

 

Also why not kill Tyrion if you are mercilessly killing enemies, why pass up the opportunity to easily kill one of your most hated enemies. Yet anger the dragon queen by killing a pretty harmless opponent.

[Sir Shep]

I know it’s hard to believe but GOT isn’t actually real, and therefore deciding to wipeout everyone because they’re in range of a big arrow and thus ending it all gives the writers a bit of a dilemma as they’d be no drama. I honestly can’t understand why people have a hard on because a dragon was in range of a crossbow! 

 

Im enjoying the show, I appreciate it’s not what everyone was hoping for but I’m going to wait to the end before I pass judgement like a mountain beheading a translator. 

[Strokes]

What about the dead they burned in the opening scenes, why didn’t the burst into ashes like white walkers did. Didn’t the night king raise most of them into white walkers?

[Goober]

2 minutes ago, Strokes said:

What about the dead they burned in the opening scenes, why didn’t the burst into ashes like white walkers did. Didn’t the night king raise most of them into white walkers?

Nah they were turned into wights, wights = zombies while white walkers = ice creatures 

[Captain...]

1 hour ago, Sir Shep said:

I know it’s hard to believe but GOT isn’t actually real, and therefore deciding to wipeout everyone because they’re in range of a big arrow and thus ending it all gives the writers a bit of a dilemma as they’d be no drama. I honestly can’t understand why people have a hard on because a dragon was in range of a crossbow! 

 

Im enjoying the show, I appreciate it’s not what everyone was hoping for but I’m going to wait to the end before I pass judgement like a mountain beheading a translator. 

I know what you’re saying but it does annoy me when you’re watching something and you are into it and something stupid happens that takes you out of the moment. It is a dilemma of the writers own making. You don’t just turn up at the gates of your enemy with a handful of troops expecting them to give up a hostage/prisoner for nothing in return. They had no leverage no strength other than a dragon and put their leader and her trusted advisor in harms way. In previous seasons they would have sent a raven demanding Missandei’s release. This could then go one of 2 ways Cersei releases Missendei, maybe in exchange for Jamie, a little bit of re-writing needed, forces Dany to choose between her trusted advisor and a once sworn enemy that killed her brother. This leads to Dany taking Jamie from Brienne just as they have got together, rather than Jamie shagging Brienne then buggering off. Causing more tension between Dany and Tyrion and Sansa who vouched for Jamie because of Brienne. Dany exchanges Jamie for Missandei, but guess what Cersei has poisoned Missandei with the long kiss goodbye or whatever it’s called. Missandei gets back to dragonstone and dies in Greyworm’s arms. Jamie is back in KL, and nobody has made any stupid decisions putting themselves in unnecessary danger.

 

Or Cersei realises she has a valuable hostage and when the inevitable attack comes she has Missandei strapped to the walls of the red keep so if Dany wants to burn it she has to burn Missandei.

 

Both a lot more interesting and “believable” than what they did. I use believable within the context of the world GRRM created.

 

As I said before I still enjoy the show and it doesn’t ruin it for me, but it has just gone from being one of the best tv shows ever to good tv with spectacular set pieces but lazy writing and it is disappointing to see it fizzle out rather than go out with a bang.

Edited 9 May 2019 by Captain...

[Babylon]

2 hours ago, Captain... said:

Was it? Was it as far away as Rhaegal when it got shot out of the sky?

 

Also why not kill Tyrion if you are mercilessly killing enemies, why pass up the opportunity to easily kill one of your most hated enemies. Yet anger the dragon queen by killing a pretty harmless opponent.

If they'd put them at the sufficient distance they'd be specs in the distance and it wouldn't give you the stand off. People are being incredibly nitpicky, you could go through season one and find things that bend what we know as reality to serve a purpose. 

 

Because she clearly doesn't hate him as much as you think... which was the entire point of showing her doubts and not having him killed. She could have done it about three times already if she REALLY wanted to. 

Edited 9 May 2019 by Babylon

[Captain...]

26 minutes ago, Babylon said:

If they'd put them at the sufficient distance they'd be specs in the distance and it wouldn't give you the stand off. People are being incredibly nitpicky, you could go through season one and find things that bend what we know as reality to serve a purpose. 

 

Because she clearly doesn't hate him as much as you think... which was the entire point of showing her doubts and not having him killed. She could have done it about three times already if she REALLY wanted to. 

If that was the point of that scene, which I doubt, she has set the whole of Westeros looking for Tyrion, paid Bronn to kill him just a few days before and has hated him her entire life. If that was the point of the scene then that is the very definition of lazy writing, creating an unrealistic scenario to further the plot/character arc because they are too lazy to find a realistic/credible way to get to the same point.