Game of Thrones - hide spoilers please.

[yorkie1999]

Visually spectacular, story line stupid, no tits either.

[Innovindil]

31 minutes ago, RoboFox said:

I've slept on the episode and as much as I enjoyed it, the more I think about it, the more I find it frustrating. The episode felt so inconsistent with the rest of the show in many ways.

 

So many unanswered questions that blatantly are just going to stay that way.

Maybe for the course of GoT (although we still have 3 episodes left). But considering they've got spinoffs in the works, one of which is supposed to be set 5000 years ago and will hopefully cover this stuff.

 

Maybe they are intentionally leaving it out to make people want to see the spinoffs? who knows.

[Suzie the Fox]

Just watched it and thought it was awesome. No extra thinking needed for me, another 3? more episodes to go and hopefully in that period all the loose ends with regards to the frozen dead dude & Brann will be answered. 

 

What a show though, cant wait for another 10+ years when i have forgotten most of it, so i can watch it again. 

 

 

[Ric Flair]

Not watched it, just read all the spoilers instead. Decadent.

[Carl the Llama]

26 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

Not watched it, just read all the spoilers instead. Decadent.

Yeah the use of hidden spoilers was pretty good... for about a day 

[Ric Flair]

1 minute ago, Carl the Llama said:

Yeah the use of hidden spoilers was pretty good... for about a day 

Hahahaa I couldn't help myself.

[Filbert's Friend]

TL;DR : don't panic, there's loads of time for ends to be tied up and I'm confident that they will be.

 

I was celebrating the NK's death like a 90+3 minute Vardy winner when watching the first time. But given time to reflect a little, there are clear issues - though nothing worth worrying about just yet with 3 long episodes left.



Obviously, there's the issue of Arya tiptoeing past an army of rotting soldiers and Lucius Malfoy-looking death wizard dudes, to kill the 8,000 year old zombie maker. This really could do with an explanation. It is worth remembering the very first episode, though, with Jon stood in the godswood (presumably at the same spot as the NK was in the most recent episode), and Arya turns up out of nowhere - Jon then asking how she managed to sneak up on him. Maybe there's some route to that spot that nobody else is aware of? I'm hoping the next episode perhaps starts with that final scene, but from Arya's perspective. Maybe a bit optimistic, but would help to clear things up.

Then there's the issue of it having given us no more information about the NK - the who, what, when, where, whys about him, and his relationship with Bran (or the 3ERs in general). I have every expectation that this will be fully explained before the series ends. The writers are fully aware of how important this is to people, and leaving this untouched would be completely unacceptable. I'm assuming there will be a good chunk of an episode (or even a full episode) going on a journey through time with Bran, understanding his full importance and impact on how things have turned out. As someone said before me on here - don't expect all loose ends tied up half way through a series. The lack of information given before the NK's death, I think, was supposed to create the frustration that it has - and within 3 weeks from now the writers will be lauded as genuises for drawing everyone into a trap before giving fans what they want.

Finally there's the issue of what the hell Bran is all about. There's been a general expectation for years that he will end up as the most important character, and this is still possible - there's still time. Will he have gone back in time and influenced various things (was he the voice that the Mad King heard telling him to burn them all, for example). Maybe he is the real evil one, and the NK was on a mission to kill him for good reasons? Perhaps he is even the the Lord of Light? Or, maybe he is important for an entirely different, more conceptual reason.

 

Could it be that Bran doesn't have that much direct impact on proceedings, but it turns out that we - as viewers - have been watching the entire show from day one through the eyes of Bran. As the 3ER, he can recall every event, conversation and movement of every character. The NK killing him, therefore, would mean that the story wouldn't be able to be observed from a third party perspective, and the proceedings as we see them wouldn't be able to be shown. After all, this is what the NK supposedly wants - to kill the memory of men, or whatever it was. This would make Bran a kind of silent narrator, and therefore the most important character in the series.


I really need to stop watching this. 

[The Quick Brown Fox]

Just a thought, GRRM is releasing a prequel book isn't he? Maybe, just maybe he's not putting into the show the why and how of the white walkers so more people want to read the book for answers. 

[Footballwipe]

Only really watching this cause the Mrs lured me into it.

 

For me it's a logical summation of the seven series of their stories and journeys, surely? The whole creeping in the library was supposed to highlight how skilled she was at slipping past the WW? And with her years of training she faced the ultimate test and passed.

 

Anyway, that aside, I thought that the battle went on five-ish minutes too long? As it became clear not enough characters had died for them to lose, it just became a little bit of "get on with it" as each main character's situation got more and more precarious.

 

I'm not as invested as many others, so don't really care if it's different to the early series in terms of writing. It's actually quite amusing to see people losing their minds over it.

[Babylon]

3 hours ago, RoboFox said:

I've slept on the episode and as much as I enjoyed it, the more I think about it, the more I find it frustrating. The episode felt so inconsistent with the rest of the show in many ways.

 

So many unanswered questions that blatantly are just going to stay that way.

I think it was the writers who said they loved the ending of the Sopranos. So if people are annoyed now, then get ready for the pain to come, because they are going to leave something massively open to interpretation. 

[Babylon]

44 minutes ago, Filbert's Friend said:

 

  Hide contents

 

TL;DR : don't panic, there's loads of time for ends to be tied up and I'm confident that they will be.

 

I was celebrating the NK's death like a 90+3 minute Vardy winner when watching the first time. But given time to reflect a little, there are clear issues - though nothing worth worrying about just yet with 3 long episodes left.



Obviously, there's the issue of Arya tiptoeing past an army of rotting soldiers and Lucius Malfoy-looking death wizard dudes, to kill the 8,000 year old zombie maker. This really could do with an explanation. It is worth remembering the very first episode, though, with Jon stood in the godswood (presumably at the same spot as the NK was in the most recent episode), and Arya turns up out of nowhere - Jon then asking how she managed to sneak up on him. Maybe there's some route to that spot that nobody else is aware of? I'm hoping the next episode perhaps starts with that final scene, but from Arya's perspective. Maybe a bit optimistic, but would help to clear things up.

Then there's the issue of it having given us no more information about the NK - the who, what, when, where, whys about him, and his relationship with Bran (or the 3ERs in general). I have every expectation that this will be fully explained before the series ends. The writers are fully aware of how important this is to people, and leaving this untouched would be completely unacceptable. I'm assuming there will be a good chunk of an episode (or even a full episode) going on a journey through time with Bran, understanding his full importance and impact on how things have turned out. As someone said before me on here - don't expect all loose ends tied up half way through a series. The lack of information given before the NK's death, I think, was supposed to create the frustration that it has - and within 3 weeks from now the writers will be lauded as genuises for drawing everyone into a trap before giving fans what they want.

Finally there's the issue of what the hell Bran is all about. There's been a general expectation for years that he will end up as the most important character, and this is still possible - there's still time. Will he have gone back in time and influenced various things (was he the voice that the Mad King heard telling him to burn them all, for example). Maybe he is the real evil one, and the NK was on a mission to kill him for good reasons? Perhaps he is even the the Lord of Light? Or, maybe he is important for an entirely different, more conceptual reason.

 

Could it be that Bran doesn't have that much direct impact on proceedings, but it turns out that we - as viewers - have been watching the entire show from day one through the eyes of Bran. As the 3ER, he can recall every event, conversation and movement of every character. The NK killing him, therefore, would mean that the story wouldn't be able to be observed from a third party perspective, and the proceedings as we see them wouldn't be able to be shown. After all, this is what the NK supposedly wants - to kill the memory of men, or whatever it was. This would make Bran a kind of silent narrator, and therefore the most important character in the series.


I really need to stop watching this. 
 

 

It's been explained. He was made by the children of the forest to fight the first man, there doesn't have to be anything significant about the man they chose to do that. His relationship with them is that he wants to kill them because of the skills / magic they possess, it's a threat to him and his mission of destroying mankind. That's about the long and the short of it. 

 

I think people have whipped themselves up so much expecting twists at every turn, that the explanations that have been laid pretty bare are ignored because they think something bigger is coming. 

 

Bran could just be some kid who by chance or fait happened to become a 3ER, that might just be it again. No great back story, he's not Bran the builder, he's not the night king. He's just another piece on the chess board. Nobody looks at Melissandra and wonders about some great big back story or twist in who or what she is. Despite also having some really freaky powers, they just accept she's a witch / priestess bestowed some powers, and like Bran is just another pawn on the board. 

Edited 30 April 2019 by Babylon

[Filbert's Friend]

5 minutes ago, Babylon said:

It's been explained. He was made by the children of the forest to fight the first man, there doesn't have to be anything significant about the man they chose to do that. His relationship with them is that he wants to kill them because of the skills / magic they possess, it's a threat to him and his mission of destroying mankind. That's about the long and the short of it. 

 

I think people have whipped themselves up so much expecting twists at every turn, that the explanations that have been laid pretty bare are ignored because they think something bigger is coming. 

 

Bran could just be some kid who by chance or fait happened to become a 3ER, that might just be it again. No great back story, he's not Bran the builder, he's not the night king. He's just another piece on the chess board. Nobody looks at Melissandra and wonders about some great big back story or twist in who or what she is. Despite also having some really freaky powers, they just accept she's a witch / priestess bestowed some powers, and like Bran is just another pawn on the board. 

 

Yeah maybe you're right. There's no tangible reason why there'd need to be this kind of intricate background given to bran or the NK.

I do think that the writers leaving it where it is implies an expectation of a very uncurious and easily satisfied audience, so I would still be surprised if there wasn't more to it (especially with 4 hours or so left).

But there's no specific reason why you wouldn't be right.

[RoboFox]

2 minutes ago, Babylon said:

I think it was the writers who said they loved the ending of the Sopranos. So if people are annoyed now, then get ready for the pain to come, because they are going to leave something massively open to interpretation. 

An intentionally ambiguous Sopranos-style ending I wouldn't mind at all, but throughout the series there's always minutiae of lore or backstory that's almost always revisited at some point later on... Sometimes even entire seasons.

 

Feels like now they don't have enough time to answer them and they'll just be ignored, or just lazily dismissed by inexplicably killing off a character: 

I mean, Melissandre just f**ks off into a field, takes her necklace off and dies?

 

Or just addressing it with a crap single throwaway line of dialogue as was the case when we found out why the Night King was obsessed with Bran.

 

Don't get me wrong, I love the show and I'm still enjoying it and I'm certainly not having a mard which seems to be happening a lot online. But it's all just a bit... Rushed.

 

[kingcarr21]

Ive seen a fan theory that suggest that Bran is in fact the Lord of light and will summon fire walkers  Imagine Bran all of a sudden torching everything, The End  

 

Personally I loved the episode apart from how dark it was in the first half. Brightness up to full  

 

I'm also glad that the battle against the NK wasn't drawn out over the whole season 8. Don't forget the show is called Game of Thrones. So surely the main question is still who will sit on the iron throne by the end. I didn't want that to become second fiddle to the Great war. So now we get to look forward to the final battle for the throne. Will Jon and Dany end up fighting?

 

Cant wait

[Babylon]

1 hour ago, Filbert's Friend said:

 

Yeah maybe you're right. There's no tangible reason why there'd need to be this kind of intricate background given to bran or the NK.

I do think that the writers leaving it where it is implies an expectation of a very uncurious and easily satisfied audience, so I would still be surprised if there wasn't more to it (especially with 4 hours or so left).

But there's no specific reason why you wouldn't be right.

I think left to GRRM you might have got more, in fact it might be part of his deal that they HAVE to leave some of the complete back story out of it, so that he can fill in the gaps and still have an audience (or a bigger one) when the book finally comes out. 

 

I think the reality is that the above, the budget, the difficulty in getting all the cast back constantly has led to is being a some what more watered down version of what you'd got had all the books already been complete. 

[LCFC FOX]

The one thing I didn’t understand is why did they sacrifice the Dothraki like that?

 

”only a fool would fight the Dothraki in an open filed”

 

and now they’ve been wiped out after about twenty seconds. I didn’t get that tactic at all. 

[Babylon]

2 minutes ago, LCFC FOX said:

The one thing I didn’t understand is why did they sacrifice the Dothraki like that?

 

”only a fool would fight the Dothraki in an open filed”

 

and now they’ve been wiped out after about twenty seconds. I didn’t get that tactic at all. 

Like only using archers when they pass the fire barrier... errr... shoot them before.

[ithuriel]

Just now, LCFC FOX said:

The one thing I didn’t understand is why did they sacrifice the Dothraki like that?

 

”only a fool would fight the Dothraki in an open filed”

 

and now they’ve been wiped out after about twenty seconds. I didn’t get that tactic at all. 

They were not really expecting to fight them at night, before Jon and co have fought them in daylight, so they probably thought they'd be able to see them and use their speed but in the dark, they just ran into a wall of dead waiting for them and wiped them out before they could react.

Inside the fort they'd be pretty useless, myself, I'd have probably gone looking for the dead whilst on the march but even then, they'd probably ambush the Dothraki at night whilst camped.

The unsullied that were at the battle were decimated but in the end they were there only to draw the NK out and to buy time.

Myself, I'd have dug more trenches but I guess they ran out of time, the ground being hard in wintertime.

[LCFC FOX]

4 minutes ago, ithuriel said:

They were not really expecting to fight them at night, before Jon and co have fought them in daylight, so they probably thought they'd be able to see them and use their speed but in the dark, they just ran into a wall of dead waiting for them and wiped them out before they could react.

Inside the fort they'd be pretty useless, myself, I'd have probably gone looking for the dead whilst on the march but even then, they'd probably ambush the Dothraki at night whilst camped.

The unsullied that were at the battle were decimated but in the end they were there only to draw the NK out and to buy time.

Myself, I'd have dug more trenches but I guess they ran out of time, the ground being hard in wintertime.

Like you said if you can’t see what you’re running into then it’s just suicide, surely just sitting behind the unsullied with the northmen would of done more damage than charging into them. 

 

Hopefully most of them just ran into the woods instead and they’re not actually dead  I really wanted to see them fight the Lannister’s 

[Dr The Singh]

Just watched it, first 30 mins was very cheesy, lots of obvious heroics.

 

But the whole thing stank of Peter Taylor esque tactics in war.

 

However still very entertaining, but didn't think it lived up to expectations

[The Bear]

GRRM isn't writing a prequel, there's a TV series being made. 

[SMX11]

16 hours ago, LCFC FOX said:

The one thing I didn’t understand is why did they sacrifice the Dothraki like that?

 

”only a fool would fight the Dothraki in an open filed”

 

and now they’ve been wiped out after about twenty seconds. I didn’t get that tactic at all. 

Lets be honest, the whole strategy is predicated on totally losing to allow NK to reach Bran and expose himself so throwing away all the Dothraki made sense

[daventry_fox]

I really enjoyed this episode. I think the lighting was great it gave it a sense of what it would have been like at the battle. I agree with a few in here though I do think a couple of 2nd tier characters should have been killed off.

[ithuriel]

4 hours ago, daventry_fox said:

I really enjoyed this episode. I think the lighting was great it gave it a sense of what it would have been like at the battle. I agree with a few in here though I do think a couple of 2nd tier characters should have been killed off.

I think there should have been more deaths but when you think about it, more characters that you know died here than at some of the other big battles

 

[shen]

1 hour ago, ithuriel said:

I think there should have been more deaths but when you think about it, more characters that you know died here than at some of the other big battles

 

As well as Viserion (again) and Rhaegal(?)