Game of Thrones - hide spoilers please.

[lestajigs]

1 hour ago, deejdeej said:

 

  Hide contents

Was the Valyrian steel dagger used by Arya that was given by Bran, the same dagger used by the assassin to kill Bran in series one?

 

Yes

[lestajigs]

2 hours ago, egg_fried_rice said:

I thought that was stupid and worse - a bit boring. No nuance any more and such ridiculous plot armour for the main characters but it's been like that for the past couple of seasons I suppose. The less said about the ludicrous ninja assassin transformation of Arya the better.

 

The lighting was fine, get the settings on your TVs sorted folks!

You miserable git  

[Carl the Llama]

On 23/04/2019 at 16:51, Carl the Llama said:

All I know is that the crypts are going to be the scene of a bloodbath because they clearly stated about fifty times that they're the safest place to be... when a man with the power to raise dead people comes knocking. 

Yup.  Tbh it wasn't quite how I thought they'd play it going in: I was expecting the big shock twist to be that all major players in the crypt get killed by dead Starks, but when they had Tyrion actually go down there instead of to the battlefield that was obviously never going to happen.

[Samilktray]

2 hours ago, egg_fried_rice said:

I thought that was stupid and worse - a bit boring. No nuance any more and such ridiculous plot armour for the main characters but it's been like that for the past couple of seasons I suppose. The less said about the ludicrous ninja assassin transformation of Arya the better.

 

The lighting was fine, get the settings on your TVs sorted folks!

Arya spent about a season training to be an assassin, not sure last nights events are any form of transformation for her

[The Bear]

For those that say the books would have done it better with more deaths, GRRM has sat down with the showrunners and outlined his ending to the whole thing. So the TV series will reflect the books fairly literally, apart from some of the side characters conclusions because the books can go into more detail with them.

 

GRRM has confirmed all that himself in an interview. 

[ithuriel]

10 hours ago, Legend_in_blue said:

This is where a plasma TV is required...

I still have one, a Panasonic moved to a bedroom but my new Panasonic 4k tv after tweaking the settings, shows things nicely enough.

[FireFox]

A couple spoilers from the preview for episode 4:

 

Some really cool sequences and shots. First time watching it, it was good. But thinking back on it, the writing is awful. Why do the Dothraki charge into the night? The direwolf Ghost somehow survives into the next episode. And both dragons. How do all these characters survive after being surrounded, how does Jorah get to Dany? How does Arya sneak past all the undead and White Walkers to literally jump out of nowhere?! 

I half-accept Arya, being trained as an assassin, to kill the Night King, but show us her sneaking through his army and jumping from somewhere. There won't be that "shock-value" on a second viewing, it just seems ridiculous and contrived. Or at least have Jon kill that dragon, having an awesome hero moment, only to get to the Godswood and be stopped by the other White Walkers while the Night King tries to kill Bran... and then it makes a little sense Arya can sneak through with the White Walkers distracted by Jon.

With so few important characters dying, this just felt unimportant. I'd rather watch the Battle of the Blackwater, Battle for the Wall, Hardhome, Battle of the Bastards, or the Field of Fire again. Yes the Night King and all the undead died, but with how it happened, so what.

 

Edited 30 April 2019 by FireFox

[Babylon]

8 hours ago, egg_fried_rice said:

 The less said about the ludicrous ninja assassin transformation of Arya the better.

I love how people can suspend their disbelief when it comes to fire breathing dragons, women impervious to fire, witches, ice kings and the walking dead.... but don't you bloody train a girl over 8 series to become a killer and let her kill people. RIDICULOUS!!!

Edited 30 April 2019 by Babylon

[egg_fried_rice]

 

6 hours ago, Samilktray said:

Arya spent about a season training to be an assassin, not sure last nights events are any form of transformation for her

 

15 minutes ago, Babylon said:

I love how people can suspend their disbelief when it comes to fire breathing dragons, women impervious to fire, witches, ice kings and the walking dead.... but don't you bloody train a girl over 8 series to become a killer and let her kill people. RIDICULOUS!!!

It's all about the believability within the universe it sets out though - she 'only' trained with the faceless men, didn't complete it, and took an absolute battering when she tried to leave. And it's not so much the assassin element, more the whole robot edge-lord knife-skills quote-machine aspect of it. I'm not saying it only happened it last night's episode - I just don't like her character any more and how they've progressed it over the last couple of seasons.

[goose2010]

If you don't realise they have been building Arya's character up for the last 7 seasons you have been watching it wrong.

 

Its even mentioned in the first episode.

 

It was a perfect way to finish this part of the story IMO

[AKCJ]

5 minutes ago, goose2010 said:

If you don't realise they have been building Arya's character up for the last 7 seasons you have been watching it wrong.

 

Its even mentioned in the first episode.

 

It was a perfect way to finish this part of the story IMO

I think it's season 2 or 3 when Arya meets Melisandre and she tells her that she will shut blue, brown and green eyes forever.

 

Clearly GRRM's plan.

[Babylon]

21 minutes ago, egg_fried_rice said:

 

 

It's all about the believability within the universe it sets out though - she 'only' trained with the faceless men, didn't complete it, and took an absolute battering when she tried to leave. And it's not so much the assassin element, more the whole robot edge-lord knife-skills quote-machine aspect of it. I'm not saying it only happened it last night's episode - I just don't like her character any more and how they've progressed it over the last couple of seasons.

Her training started in Episode 1 with Syrio Forel. The beatings she took (especially when blinded) were about heightening her senses. The fact she's become a skilled killer is entirely believable when you look at her full arch and you're getting people brought back from the dead 8 times. 

[egg_fried_rice]

Some choice quotes from reddit which echo my sentiments:

 

 

The undead were supposed to be the apocalyptic force that exposed the futility in chasing the Iron Throne. They were supposed to be the catalyst that compelled the realm of men to band together in the face of a global extinction threat.

With the NK and undead army expediently dealt with in a single episode, they are no longer a threat that the rest of Westeros need take seriously (or even believe were real for that matter). In addition, Cersei does not face the consequences of her shortsighted and selfish decision to ignore them, in fact even massively benefitted from them - in contrast to what ASOIAF has been about until this point (consequences).</spoiler>
 

 

 

 

 

 

The funny thing is, I'm fine with Arya killing the Night King. That's not my issue at all.

The problem is that we still know nothing about the Night King and the White Walkers, and we know even less about Bran and the 3ER. Like, what was the point? Bran went through all that just to give Arya a knife and then sit around being bait? It just feels like a lot for so little.
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I could accept Arya being the one to kill the NK, the way it happened was awful though.

Like if it was some combination of Jon reaching the Weirwood and then losing a duel with the NK, Theon's sacrifice to stall, and Bran warging one out of Ghost/Rhaegal/Drogon for a final failed 'surprise' defense combined with Arya assassinating him just as he thought he had won it would be great.

Instead we get Arya with sneaking capped in Skyrim just walking through the undead horde and basically backstabbing the NK while Jon screams at an undead dragon and Bran literally did nothing. Like at this point Bran's entire 3ER plot has done nothing other than give the NK a place to be during this battle and give Jon his parentage reveal. We didn't even get Bran going back to the original Longest Night to tell us how humanity won the first time, how is that possible.
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I love this show, and taking the show for what it is, leaving all book plots aside this episode still fell so flat for me. The reason game of thrones is good is because very early on it established and then abided by, a very consistent rule set. Actions have consequence. No one is coming to save you. Let’s look at a parallel between season one and season eight.

Season one, Ned Stark. Stabbed in the leg, limps and walks with a cane for the remainder of his life. He is then betrayed, surrounded by his enemies and executed. As show watchers and book readers we waited for someone to save him. He has to survive, he is the hero, the good man, the main character. We were taught then that that doesn’t matter. You die if you are surrounded by your enemies. Your injuries last. Dues ex machina does not exist.

Season eight, Jon Snow. Falls hundreds of feet out of the sky on a (dead? dying? injured?) dragon. Pops onto his feet unscathed. The night king raises the dead around him. These enemies were established in earlier seasons as absolutely terrifying. A single wight almost kills him and Jeor Mormont, and Jon almost loses the use of his hand to kill it. He is now surrounded by possibly thousands of them. Yet he lives.

Not only does he live. He runs through the entire army of undead without a hiccup, and then faces down an undead dragon alone. Let’s give him a pass? Dany has a literal flying fire breathing dragon. Then Dany is surrounded only to be saved by Jorah ****ing Mormont. Wasn’t he just trapped fighting for his life in winterfell? I mean does an army of tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands of wights mean nothing? He just ran through miles of undead to be at the exact place at the exact time to save Dany? I could go beat by beat through the main characters and every single one of them should have died several times tonight. I’m not saying I want them all to die or that they should have story wise, but don’t put them in that position if you aren’t willing to follow through with it.

Come on. Game of thrones is supposed to have consequences for your actions. Gandalf does the appear in the east on the third day. You can’t establish rules that you abide by for seven seasons to say **** it and throw it all out the window without it ruining it all. This episode had amazing visuals. Amazing music. An amazing set. Yet the storytelling was just awful.

The show has become the antithesis of itself. Everything that made the in show universe logical, captivating and exhilarating are gone.

It has become the storybook it tried so hard to subvert.
 

 

 

Edited 30 April 2019 by egg_fried_rice

[egg_fried_rice]

5 minutes ago, Babylon said:

Her training started in Episode 1 with Syrio Forel. The beatings she took (especially when blinded) were about heightening her senses. The fact she's become a skilled killer is entirely believable when you look at her full arch and you're getting people brought back from the dead 8 times. 

 

I understand that. She was one of my favourite characters. As I said, it's really not the skilled killer aspect I have a problem with. It's the way everything has been executed and reduced - her character more than any. I'm more disappointed about the decline in quality of the show as a whole I suppose and I'm taking it out on Arya and the way they delivered that episode. That was spectacle over substance. I had my hopes up after what I thought was an excellent episode 2, but I suppose I should adapt my expectations and enjoy it for the spectacular non-subversive fantasy it has become. Seasons 1-4 are among the best telly I've ever seen, and this just doesn't feel much like that - to me, anyway.

[goose2010]

6 minutes ago, egg_fried_rice said:

Some choice quotes from reddit which echo my sentiments:

  Hide contents

 

The undead were supposed to be the apocalyptic force that exposed the futility in chasing the Iron Throne. They were supposed to be the catalyst that compelled the realm of men to band together in the face of a global extinction threat.

With the NK and undead army expediently dealt with in a single episode, they are no longer a threat that the rest of Westeros need take seriously (or even believe were real for that matter). In addition, Cersei does not face the consequences of her shortsighted and selfish decision to ignore them, in fact even massively benefitted from them - in contrast to what ASOIAF has been about until this point (consequences).</spoiler>
 

 

 

  Hide contents

 

 

The funny thing is, I'm fine with Arya killing the Night King. That's not my issue at all.

The problem is that we still know nothing about the Night King and the White Walkers, and we know even less about Bran and the 3ER. Like, what was the point? Bran went through all that just to give Arya a knife and then sit around being bait? It just feels like a lot for so little.
 

 

 

 

  Hide contents

 

 

I could accept Arya being the one to kill the NK, the way it happened was awful though.

Like if it was some combination of Jon reaching the Weirwood and then losing a duel with the NK, Theon's sacrifice to stall, and Bran warging one out of Ghost/Rhaegal/Drogon for a final failed 'surprise' defense combined with Arya assassinating him just as he thought he had won it would be great.

Instead we get Arya with sneaking capped in Skyrim just walking through the undead horde and basically backstabbing the NK while Jon screams at an undead dragon and Bran literally did nothing. Like at this point Bran's entire 3ER plot has done nothing other than give the NK a place to be during this battle and give Jon his parentage reveal. We didn't even get Bran going back to the original Longest Night to tell us how humanity won the first time, how is that possible.
 

 

 

 

  Hide contents

 

 

I love this show, and taking the show for what it is, leaving all book plots aside this episode still fell so flat for me. The reason game of thrones is good is because very early on it established and then abided by, a very consistent rule set. Actions have consequence. No one is coming to save you. Let’s look at a parallel between season one and season eight.

Season one, Ned Stark. Stabbed in the leg, limps and walks with a cane for the remainder of his life. He is then betrayed, surrounded by his enemies and executed. As show watchers and book readers we waited for someone to save him. He has to survive, he is the hero, the good man, the main character. We were taught then that that doesn’t matter. You die if you are surrounded by your enemies. Your injuries last. Dues ex machina does not exist.

Season eight, Jon Snow. Falls hundreds of feet out of the sky on a (dead? dying? injured?) dragon. Pops onto his feet unscathed. The night king raises the dead around him. These enemies were established in earlier seasons as absolutely terrifying. A single wight almost kills him and Jeor Mormont, and Jon almost loses the use of his hand to kill it. He is now surrounded by possibly thousands of them. Yet he lives.

Not only does he live. He runs through the entire army of undead without a hiccup, and then faces down an undead dragon alone. Let’s give him a pass? Dany has a literal flying fire breathing dragon. Then Dany is surrounded only to be saved by Jorah ****ing Mormont. Wasn’t he just trapped fighting for his life in winterfell? I mean does an army of tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands of wights mean nothing? He just ran through miles of undead to be at the exact place at the exact time to save Dany? I could go beat by beat through the main characters and every single one of them should have died several times tonight. I’m not saying I want them all to die or that they should have story wise, but don’t put them in that position if you aren’t willing to follow through with it.

Come on. Game of thrones is supposed to have consequences for your actions. Gandalf does the appear in the east on the third day. You can’t establish rules that you abide by for seven seasons to say **** it and throw it all out the window without it ruining it all. This episode had amazing visuals. Amazing music. An amazing set. Yet the storytelling was just awful.

The show has become the antithesis of itself. Everything that made the in show universe logical, captivating and exhilarating are gone.

It has become the storybook it tried so hard to subvert.
 

 

 

I don't get why people need complete closure half way through a series? There is still so much going on. Just wait and see and just enjoy the ride.

 

 

[howlinmadmurfdoc]

49 minutes ago, egg_fried_rice said:

 

 

It's all about the believability within the universe it sets out though - she 'only' trained with the faceless men, didn't complete it, and took an absolute battering when she tried to leave. And it's not so much the assassin element, more the whole robot edge-lord knife-skills quote-machine aspect of it. I'm not saying it only happened it last night's episode - I just don't like her character any more and how they've progressed it over the last couple of seasons.

She completed the training. Jaqen told her she had become no one after she killed the waif.

[Babylon]

30 minutes ago, egg_fried_rice said:

 

I understand that. She was one of my favourite characters. As I said, it's really not the skilled killer aspect I have a problem with. It's the way everything has been executed and reduced - her character more than any. I'm more disappointed about the decline in quality of the show as a whole I suppose and I'm taking it out on Arya and the way they delivered that episode. That was spectacle over substance. I had my hopes up after what I thought was an excellent episode 2, but I suppose I should adapt my expectations and enjoy it for the spectacular non-subversive fantasy it has become. Seasons 1-4 are among the best telly I've ever seen, and this just doesn't feel much like that - to me, anyway.

I've just accepted that without his books to follow, it's not going to be as good. They've cobbled things together really and despite them saying he's been fully involved, the bloke takes an absolute age to write the books in the detail he does, so whilst they might have had the outline, the detail isn't going to be there. I still think he'll change thinks in his book anyway... it's not like the show followed it religiously anyway, so how could he not. 

[Babylon]

44 minutes ago, egg_fried_rice said:

Some choice quotes from reddit which echo my sentiments:

  Reveal hidden contents

 

The undead were supposed to be the apocalyptic force that exposed the futility in chasing the Iron Throne. They were supposed to be the catalyst that compelled the realm of men to band together in the face of a global extinction threat.

With the NK and undead army expediently dealt with in a single episode, they are no longer a threat that the rest of Westeros need take seriously (or even believe were real for that matter). In addition, Cersei does not face the consequences of her shortsighted and selfish decision to ignore them, in fact even massively benefitted from them - in contrast to what ASOIAF has been about until this point (consequences).</spoiler>
 

 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

The funny thing is, I'm fine with Arya killing the Night King. That's not my issue at all.

The problem is that we still know nothing about the Night King and the White Walkers, and we know even less about Bran and the 3ER. Like, what was the point? Bran went through all that just to give Arya a knife and then sit around being bait? It just feels like a lot for so little.
 

 

 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

I could accept Arya being the one to kill the NK, the way it happened was awful though.

Like if it was some combination of Jon reaching the Weirwood and then losing a duel with the NK, Theon's sacrifice to stall, and Bran warging one out of Ghost/Rhaegal/Drogon for a final failed 'surprise' defense combined with Arya assassinating him just as he thought he had won it would be great.

Instead we get Arya with sneaking capped in Skyrim just walking through the undead horde and basically backstabbing the NK while Jon screams at an undead dragon and Bran literally did nothing. Like at this point Bran's entire 3ER plot has done nothing other than give the NK a place to be during this battle and give Jon his parentage reveal. We didn't even get Bran going back to the original Longest Night to tell us how humanity won the first time, how is that possible.
 

 

 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

I love this show, and taking the show for what it is, leaving all book plots aside this episode still fell so flat for me. The reason game of thrones is good is because very early on it established and then abided by, a very consistent rule set. Actions have consequence. No one is coming to save you. Let’s look at a parallel between season one and season eight.

Season one, Ned Stark. Stabbed in the leg, limps and walks with a cane for the remainder of his life. He is then betrayed, surrounded by his enemies and executed. As show watchers and book readers we waited for someone to save him. He has to survive, he is the hero, the good man, the main character. We were taught then that that doesn’t matter. You die if you are surrounded by your enemies. Your injuries last. Dues ex machina does not exist.

Season eight, Jon Snow. Falls hundreds of feet out of the sky on a (dead? dying? injured?) dragon. Pops onto his feet unscathed. The night king raises the dead around him. These enemies were established in earlier seasons as absolutely terrifying. A single wight almost kills him and Jeor Mormont, and Jon almost loses the use of his hand to kill it. He is now surrounded by possibly thousands of them. Yet he lives.

Not only does he live. He runs through the entire army of undead without a hiccup, and then faces down an undead dragon alone. Let’s give him a pass? Dany has a literal flying fire breathing dragon. Then Dany is surrounded only to be saved by Jorah ****ing Mormont. Wasn’t he just trapped fighting for his life in winterfell? I mean does an army of tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands of wights mean nothing? He just ran through miles of undead to be at the exact place at the exact time to save Dany? I could go beat by beat through the main characters and every single one of them should have died several times tonight. I’m not saying I want them all to die or that they should have story wise, but don’t put them in that position if you aren’t willing to follow through with it.

Come on. Game of thrones is supposed to have consequences for your actions. Gandalf does the appear in the east on the third day. You can’t establish rules that you abide by for seven seasons to say **** it and throw it all out the window without it ruining it all. This episode had amazing visuals. Amazing music. An amazing set. Yet the storytelling was just awful.

The show has become the antithesis of itself. Everything that made the in show universe logical, captivating and exhilarating are gone.

It has become the storybook it tried so hard to subvert.
 

 

 

Only one I'm fully on board with is the last one, it was ridiculous that it felt like the only people standing at the end were the characters we knew. 

[EnderbyFox]

So how many of Dany's army/Northern army/Knights of the Vale do we think survived that? Surely hundreds instead of thousands? How many does Cersei have? 20,000 Golden Company and thousands of Lannisters I'd imagine. 

 

Will be interesting to see who comes to Dany's aide on the way south now. What happened to the Tully army? is Edmure still kicking about somewhere? Nymeria and her Wolf pack will hopefully have a role.

 

Plenty of unanswered questions to keep us going for 3 more episodes 

Edited 30 April 2019 by EnderbyFox

[egg_fried_rice]

After giving him hardly any screen time over the past 8 seasons, give me strength if they make Euron Greyjoy the main antagonist for the final run-in. Cersei will continue to be immune from all her bad decisions until Jamie strangles her. At least Cleganebowl is still on the cards.

 

Maybe they'll all end up destroying themselves anyway which wouldn't actually be the worst ending. Despite it's flaws and how I sound, I do actually still like the show 

[Captain...]

7 minutes ago, Babylon said:

Only one I'm fully on board with is the last one, it was ridiculous that it felt like the only people standing at the end were the characters we knew. 

The third one struck a chord with me, fine with Arya killing the NK, but it just sort of happened, nothing anyone else did was relevant apart from Berrick and the Hound getting her there. Bran warging into a dragon or ghost or Zombie Giant or even into one of the secondary white walkers to fight the NK would have been awesome, not some ravens for no reason. Or at least someone other than Theon fighting him and dying. Jon, Tyrion, Dany, Jamie, Brienne, Tormund, the Dothraki, the Unsullied, Davos, Ghost the dragons were all irrelevant to the outcome of the battle they were just meat shields. The whole plan was odd, let’s all stand in the open send in the Dothraki on their own against an unknown unseen enemy (although it was cool) let’s fight outside of the defences first. Then slowly run back behind them. They saw at Hardholme they can raise the dead pretty quickly so why send so many to die?

 

It reminded me of the magnificent 7 going beyond the wall last season, it looked incredible but it made no sense.

 

It needed a worthwhile sacrifice, even Berrick’s death was weird he was bracing to hold off the undead then decided to run for it anyway. It needed Jamie taking out a white walker to stop the zombies from killing Brienne, then turning to look back and getting stabbed in the back. Not Edson Tollett saving Sam. It needed the Hound to face his fear of fire pick up Berrick’s flaming sword to hold off the Zombies while Arya escaped. Not cowering for a bit and then going “Alright I’ll fight again”. Tyrion didn’t even do anything in the crypt, just ran off and let women and children die. Even the “tense” stealth scene with Arya fell flat as it made no sense, why was it silent when there was an apocalyptic battle with dragons and undead giants going on outside. Or does winterfell have the latest noise cancelling triple glazing?

 

So much time and effort put into the special effects, but the plot was a mess.

[Babylon]

2 minutes ago, Captain... said:

The third one struck a chord with me, fine with Arya killing the NK, but it just sort of happened, nothing anyone else did was relevant apart from Berrick and the Hound getting her there. Bran warging into a dragon or ghost or Zombie Giant or even into one of the secondary white walkers to fight the NK would have been awesome, not some ravens for no reason. Or at least someone other than Theon fighting him and dying. Jon, Tyrion, Dany, Jamie, Brienne, Tormund, the Dothraki, the Unsullied, Davos, Ghost the dragons were all irrelevant to the outcome of the battle they were just meat shields. The whole plan was odd, let’s all stand in the open send in the Dothraki on their own against an unknown unseen enemy (although it was cool) let’s fight outside of the defences first. Then slowly run back behind them. They saw at Hardholme they can raise the dead pretty quickly so why send so many to die?

 

It reminded me of the magnificent 7 going beyond the wall last season, it looked incredible but it made no sense.

 

It needed a worthwhile sacrifice, even Berrick’s death was weird he was bracing to hold off the undead then decided to run for it anyway. It needed Jamie taking out a white walker to stop the zombies from killing Brienne, then turning to look back and getting stabbed in the back. Not Edson Tollett saving Sam. It needed the Hound to face his fear of fire pick up Berrick’s flaming sword to hold off the Zombies while Arya escaped. Not cowering for a bit and then going “Alright I’ll fight again”. Tyrion didn’t even do anything in the crypt, just ran off and let women and children die. Even the “tense” stealth scene with Arya fell flat as it made no sense, why was it silent when there was an apocalyptic battle with dragons and undead giants going on outside. Or does winterfell have the latest noise cancelling triple glazing?

 

So much time and effort put into the special effects, but the plot was a mess.

Actually, that was another thing... whoever was in charge of their military strategy should be fed to Ramsay's hounds. 

 

 

[ealingfox]

15 minutes ago, egg_fried_rice said:

After giving him hardly any screen time over the past 8 seasons, give me strength if they make Euron Greyjoy the main antagonist for the final run-in.

 

This. Absolutely crap character and bloody irritating to boot.

[Babylon]

Just now, ealingfox said:

 

This. Absolutely crap character and bloody irritating to boot.

I'm sure bitch face will turn on him like she does everyone.

[RoboFox]

I've slept on the episode and as much as I enjoyed it, the more I think about it, the more I find it frustrating. The episode felt so inconsistent with the rest of the show in many ways.

 

So many unanswered questions that blatantly are just going to stay that way.

Edited 30 April 2019 by RoboFox