Scottish Independence Poll

[Darkon84]

2 minutes ago, Innovindil said:

May's first mistake as PM. She's done excellent so far, but this plays right into Nicola's hands. She can push the "Westminster are out to get us!" narrative as much as she wants now.

 

It makes sense to us, but I doubt you'll be able to convince the majority of Scots that this was done in their favour.

 

 

 

Actually, thinking about it, you're more than likely right with that. She'll be able to stand there all smug and basically just say 'I told you so', to stir up further Westminster resentment.

[Webbo]

1 minute ago, Darkon84 said:

 

Actually, thinking about it, you're more than likely right with that. She'll be able to stand there all smug and basically just say 'I told you so', to stir up further Westminster resentment.

Doesn't mean that anyone is going to believe her. If you're that way inclined you probably would but I doubt many neutrals or Unionists will be fooled.

[midland_red]

4 hours ago, Darkon84 said:

Oooooooooh Sturgeons going to be frothing at the mouth like a Crankie on an overdose. The answer is no...for now at least. To be fair, it makes sense. With so much else going on right now, another referendum would cause absolute chaos. Let things start to move along with Brexit and then re-evaluate the situation then.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-39293513

Not so. The Scots have the right to determine their own future as and when they feel like it. Nothing to do with us English. Doesn't matter about Brexit either - the Scots, just like the City of Leicester, voted against it. So its not their problem.

[Strokes]

Do the Scots really understand what they will be voting for? I'm sure that will be the question on everybody's lips.

[leicsmac]

23 minutes ago, Strokes said:

Do the Scots really understand what they will be voting for? I'm sure that will be the question on everybody's lips.

That didn't stop the results of the two big votes of our time last year, did it?

[Strokes]

Just now, leicsmac said:

That didn't stop the results of the two big votes of our time last year, did it?

No 

[Webbo]

37 minutes ago, Strokes said:

Do the Scots really understand what they will be voting for? I'm sure that will be the question on everybody's lips.

Even if they vote to leave it doesn't give them a mandate for hard Scoxit.

[Strokes]

Just now, Webbo said:

Even if they vote to leave it doesn't give them a mandate for hard Scoxit.

Exactly, if it's not on the ballot slip, it's still up for debate. After the referendum (should they vote leave) I wonder if the MPs will get a vote and then the lords and whether they're be the same conflict. I doubt it. 

I genuinely hope they get their independence and I hope it works out. Much like ours.

[Buce]

23 minutes ago, Webbo said:

Even if they vote to leave it doesn't give them a mandate for hard Scoxit.

 

 

On form tonight, Webbo.

[Vacamion]

1 hour ago, Webbo said:

Even if they vote to leave it doesn't give them a mandate for hard Scoxit.

 

I think you'll find it's Joxit...

 

[The Doctor]

35 minutes ago, Vacamion said:

 

I think you'll find it's Joxit...

 

Doesn't sound that attractive. They really need to Sexit up... 

[Alf Bentley]

54 minutes ago, Vacamion said:

 

I think you'll find it's Joxit...

 

 

 

With all the ill-feeling between Sturgeon and May, it risks becoming a poxy toxic Joxit.

[Finnegan]

8 hours ago, Vacamion said:

 

I think you'll find it's Joxit...

 

 

Sweatysoxit.

[Sharpe's Fox]

8 hours ago, Alf Bentley said:

 

 

With all the ill-feeling between Sturgeon and May, it risks becoming a poxy toxic Joxit.

If poxy toxic Joxit goes ahead maybe Jim Murphy will become first minister of the Kingdom of Fife leading to its own independence.

 

Jim'll Fixit

[Guest Foxin_mad]

On ‎07‎/‎06‎/‎2012 at 19:51, MattP said:

 

We should try and shove the Welsh out as well, not sure we would get a Labour Government again.

Think comrade Corbyn is doing a fine job of ensuring that wont ever happen again.

[Guest]

When the Scottish voted for independence, they did under the notion that Britain would

A) likely hold a vote to leave the EU

B) that vote would go one of 2 ways

 

You can't change the outcome just because you don't like it. suck it up and get on with it.

 

Sturgeon is only saying what she is saying because she is smart. she knows

1) it's unlikely (now stated) that she will get a referendum anytime soon

2) in addition to the above unlikely she will ever get a referendum

3) Unlikely England will ever agree to the terms that will be proposed even if talks went ahead

4) if all of the above went though nlikely Scotland will be allowed into the EU if a referendum was given the go ahead

 

She is just using it as a F**K Y** to the tories and an excuse to pretend she is all mighty and powerful and opposed the the english and or Tory regime and it makes he look like a true Scot that is fighting for the Scottish people. I think it's sad that she is allowed to call the UK Governments bluff 

 

When realistically she'd lose and have to step down. 

 

 

 

[Vacamion]

 

Equating the SNP, the Yes campaign and Nicola Sturgeon to "Scotland" causes a lot of problems.

 

Both sides do it.

 

The SNP is not Scotland.

 

 

 

 

[Jon the Hat]

On 3/15/2017 at 14:46, midland_red said:

Logically, the Scots should vote In again. (the oil price has collapsed, England is by far their largest export market, and the currency question remains unsolved).

BUT

The brexit referendum shows that people do not always vote for their own self interests. (Think Nissan carworkers voting themselves onto a dole queue post Brexit).

So the Scots might well vote to go it alone this time.

In any case, this is a decision entirely for them. Nothing to do with the English or Welsh or Irish

 

You seem to be confusing what you think will happen (Nissan leave UK for some made up reason) with what Nissan workers think will happen (Nissan are not going anywhere, UK labour cost just dropped 15% vs European sales prices) in order to suggest they made an illogical decision.  My money is on the Nissan workers there.

[Jon the Hat]

6 hours ago, Vacamion said:

 

Equating the SNP, the Yes campaign and Nicola Sturgeon to "Scotland" causes a lot of problems.

 

Both sides do it.

 

The SNP is not Scotland.

 

 

 

 

She could do with shutting up a bit.  They have a pretty big majority though no?

[Thracian]

On 14/03/2017 at 16:46, Jon the Hat said:

Madness.  Scotland outside the UK, outside the EU, outside NATO will do what exactly?  We would need to put a wall on the border to stop all the economic migrants.

 

And if you think the EU would let them in, could I introduce you to Spain, who will block any attempt by any secessionist state to join the EU ever.  I mean ever, they would be tearing up their own nation, and they won't do that.

 

I urge again, let's have an English vote over Scottish membership of the UK because I'm fed up with Sturgeon's constant "warnings" to our elected PM, as if she and Scotland are the only people not only entitled to an opinion but to any number of opinion counts, until she gets her own way like a spoiled child.  

 

Let's hurry the process up. It seems a start might already have been made if it's still around. https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/2059097/petition-started-to-let-the-rest-of-the-uk-vote-on-throwing-scotland-out-of-the-union-for-its-anti-brexit-stance/

 

A vote against would at least mean we'd have no further need to have Sturgeon's self-righteous tones plastered all over the English press and broadcast across the English media...although 43.5% of people on here don't seem to mind those incessant bleatings

 

Scotland's quite big enough and strong enough to look after itself. So let's vote to leave them to it and wish them well. Who knows. they might fly the flag of Scottish national socialism so high and so proud on so little, we'd all want a bit.

 

To think, when I first trained down at Leicester under George Dewis, the place was awash with Scots and I'd doubt we ever had a more popular team until last season.

 

Now you hardly hear of Scottish footballers at all and the game up north is so comparatively inconsequential my kids think I'm joking when I tell em they once had some of the best players anywhere to be found. Perhaps being independent would herald a rebirth and they could run the economy - hospitals and all - on a percentage of incoming transfer fees from the Chinese.       

 

 

 

 

              

[Vacamion]

15 hours ago, Jon the Hat said:

She could do with shutting up a bit.  They have a pretty big majority though no?

 

No.

 

The SNP does not have a majority in the Scottish Parliament. They are having to rely on the Green Party to get the vote through next week.

 

They have 56 of 59 MPs at Westminster because that's what happens when the 44% who voted Yes in 2014 all vote SNP, but the 56% who voted to remain in the UK split their votes between the three main other parties.  Blummin first past the post.

 

It is a myth that "Scotland" wants a referendum, or even that the voters of Scotland would favour Independence if offered a referendum.

 

The best the Nationalists have ever done is one opinion poll (which now seems to be rogue) which put the vote at 50/50.

 

Again, all this comes from the false conflation of "Scotland" with "a minority who want independence".

[BlueSi13]

Though I am also sick of the amount of airtime our national press gives to Sturgeon and her fellow band of incompetent obsessive one-trick ponies, I also can't help but question how long the union has to run anyway.

 

Take one-look at the voting patterns across the UK and it's clear we are all moving in different directions.  Couple that with the opinion polls of young Scots and it becomes pretty revealing how precarious the union is.  Brexit has very little to do with it IMO.

[urban.spaceman]

8 hours ago, BlueSi13 said:

Though I am also sick of the amount of airtime our national press gives to Sturgeon and her fellow band of incompetent obsessive one-trick ponies, I also can't help but question how long the union has to run anyway.

 

Take one-look at the voting patterns across the UK and it's clear we are all moving in different directions.  Couple that with the opinion polls of young Scots and it becomes pretty revealing how precarious the union is.  Brexit has very little to do with it IMO.

This is down to Labour completely losing the plot and making themselves completely unelectable. Blair's antics in Iraq didn't help matters and neither did Brown's 'Bigotgate' when answering an honest question from a lifelong labour voter about why EU immigration was out of control. But Miliband screwed up royally when he did practically bugger all in the original referendum. He completely screwed up by failing to realise that without maintaining his party's votes in Scotland they haven't got a chance in hell of ever being elected. The scramble in the last week because of the only poll to proclaim a yes vote was a total insult to the Scottish people and eventually lost them 40 odd seats in the next election.

 

Labour don't seem to realise that the only reason one party remains in power 2 terms or more is not because they're doing a good job, it's because of poor opposition. That's why Thatcher was re-elected twice and then Major once after, that's why they were in power for 13 years until 2010. Governments need to held to account by strong opposition, and for that reason it could be years before they get back into power. I mean Corbyn? Seriously?! 

 

And it's exactly that reason that the call for independence isn't going to end. It's not so much being ruled by Westminster that annoys most Scots. It's being ruled by the Tories who are almost universally hated. Cameron should get his fair amount of blame too - for the Indy ref and Brexit ref. He had the power to shape the question for both referendums as well as make clear the consequences for each choice and he absolutely failed at both. The Scots were already likely to vote no - so where was the specification that another referendum couldn't happen for decades in that result? And then after the No vote he walked out and started banging on about English parliaments etc - which led to votes swaying from Labour to the SNP, led to him getting in power, which led to him calling a snap Brexit referendum without any sort of planning for the consequences of leave winning.

 

It's all completely buggered basically.

[DANGEROUS TIGER]

Being half English, and half Scottish, I 100% want Scotland to remain as part of the UK. It was only 5 minutes ago that the Scottish people voted to remain. Nicola Sturgion shows clear signs of losing the plot. She is a first class speaker, but I feel is increasingly becoming out of touch with the ordinary man in the street.

 

Scotland just does not have the means, economically, to be independent.

[Alf Bentley]

A digression...... I wonder what became of acooling08, who started this thread in 2012?

 

4000+ posts over 5 years between 2008 and 2013, then he vanishes.

Did he suddenly get sick of FT? Get a permanent ban? Get banged up? Start supporting a different team? Win the lottery and move to the Bahamas? Drop dead? 

 

I understand people trying it for a short while, then buggering off, or people deciding to only visit occasionally.....or just deciding to quit, I suppose.

 

I'm sure there are a few interesting stories behind the sudden disappearance of regular posters.

I'm half way through "The Fallen", a book about all the people who have been in The Fall (group) since the 1970s, why they left, what they're doing now etc.

Someone should do a bit of research and write a book about the disappeared posters of Foxes Talk....a bestseller, I tell you.