Scottish Independence Poll

[leicsmac]

4 minutes ago, MPH said:

 

 

No offence intended, but you don't have a very good track record of predicting recent Poll results!

Ha, true! Though in this case I'm hoping my gut feeling is wrong.

[Strokes]

15 minutes ago, Vacamion said:

 

It depends on where you draw the boundary and how you divvy up the tax take.

 

Nationalists argue that Scotland has been a net contributor over the last forty years, but since the oil price collapsed they run a much bigger deficit than the rest of the U.K.

 

Of course the U.K. would lose 1/3 of its land area, its nuke sub base and (what's left of) oil bearing territorial waters.

 

You must also bear in mind the fact that there are 400,000 English living up here, by far Scotlands biggest "ethnic group". There are cross border family ties in the millions and we share a lot of our culture.

 

Of course, you don't care about of that, you just wanted to have a dig.  English people like you talking like this and flicking the V northwards will certainly help the rabid Nationalists (who at no time have ever been in the majority) with their quest to break up Britain.

 

Well done you.

Not all nationalists hate the English, I have a few very close friends in Edinburgh and half of them support independence. Sure we mock each other but we holiday together and our kids are very good friends. The anti English sentiment is not as vicious as some lead us to believe.

Not aimed at you directly vac, just thought I'd add my two pennies.

[Buce]

4 minutes ago, Strokes said:

Not all nationalists hate the English, I have a few very close friends in Edinburgh and half of them support independence. Sure we mock each other but we holiday together and our kids are very good friends. The anti English sentiment is not as vicious as some lead us to believe.

Not aimed at you directly vac, just thought I'd add my two pennies.

 

 

[MPH]

3 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

Ha, true! Though in this case I'm hoping my gut feeling is wrong.

 

 

I think back to the point you were making with Brexit, that result will definitely give some Scottish nationalists hope to ' believe the impossible'. There's also every chance that some European Union bigwigs might be tempted to dangle Scotland a few carrots to  encourage and push for independence and join the E.U. Interesting times ahead and i actually think it will be a closer result than last time. If that's possible.

[Vacamion]

8 minutes ago, Strokes said:

Not all nationalists hate the English, I have a few very close friends in Edinburgh and half of them support independence. Sure we mock each other but we holiday together and our kids are very good friends. The anti English sentiment is not as vicious as some lead us to believe.

Not aimed at you directly vac, just thought I'd add my two pennies.

 

 

All good.

 

Nationalists think they'll be good neighbours.  I've posted in here loads that I have been here 23 years and hardly ever had bother for being English.

 

My point was that people in England suggesting they are scroungers and should sod off will be pointed at by the Nats with "see, why would you want to stay in a Union with that?", so English anti Scottish remarks will only help the Scots out the door.

 

[leicsmac]

8 minutes ago, MPH said:

 

 

I think back to the point you were making with Brexit, that result will definitely give some Scottish nationalists hope to ' believe the impossible'. There's also every chance that some European Union bigwigs might be tempted to dangle Scotland a few carrots to  encourage and push for independence and join the E.U. Interesting times ahead and i actually think it will be a closer result than last time. If that's possible.

This is something I was talking about yesterday evening.

 

I think it is entirely possible the EU might offer Scotland some favourable terms in order to get a 'Yes' vote.

 

3 minutes ago, Vacamion said:

 

 

All good.

 

Nationalists think they'll be good neighbours.  I've posted in here loads that I have been here 23 years and hardly ever had bother for being English.

 

My point was that people in England suggesting they are scroungers and should sod off will be pointed at by the Nats with "see, why would you want to stay in a Union with that?", so English anti Scottish remarks will only help the Scots out the door.

 

This. I made this point the first time round - there are those in England who say they want to keep the union but continue to deride the Scottish for whatever reason. It's a bit hypocritical.

[Webbo]

Tbf the SNP does it's best to stoke up English resentment because it serves their cause.

[Bunyip]

13 hours ago, Vacamion said:

 

It depends on where you draw the boundary and how you divvy up the tax take.

 

Nationalists argue that Scotland has been a net contributor over the last forty years, but since the oil price collapsed they run a much bigger deficit than the rest of the U.K.

 

Of course the U.K. would lose 1/3 of its land area, its nuke sub base and (what's left of) oil bearing territorial waters.

 

You must also bear in mind the fact that there are 400,000 English living up here, by far Scotlands biggest "ethnic group". There are cross border family ties in the millions and we share a lot of our culture.

 

Of course, you don't care about of that, you just wanted to have a dig.  English people like you talking like this and flicking the V northwards will certainly help the rabid Nationalists (who at no time have ever been in the majority) with their quest to break up Britain.

 

Well done you.

Sanctimonious clap trap as per usual. And how many Scots are living in England ? you still failed to answer a simple question which was , what have we got to lose by them becoming independent ?  The Nationalist don't need any help from me , they have an inbred hatred of all things English . And you are wrong about them not being the majority the sheer amount of SNP  seats in parliament prove you wrong on that score.

 

My post was not so much having a dig as sheer antipathy towards a nation that only knows how to bite the hand that feeds it. 

[surrifox]

The Scots have already rejected secession from the union and surely there is an obligation on the part of the UK government to respect this and act in accordance with the wishes of the majority. The Scot Nats are far from universally loved in Scotland and in areas are utterly detested- they have mismanaged large parts of public services despite a substantially higher per capita spend than the rest of the UK.

The "clamour" for a new referendum because of Brexit is a synthetic construct in the head of Sturgeon an over ambitious chancer  from whom a period of silence would be more than welcome. Plenty of Scots supported Brexit too and would be very unhappy at the prospect of re-entering the EU as an independent country (with about as much clout as Malta or Cyprus)  , adopting the Euro ( a condition for all new entrants) at a time when there are signs that the entire edifice is under strain

[Vacamion]

3 hours ago, Bunyip said:

Sanctimonious clap trap as per usual. And how many Scots are living in England ? you still failed to answer a simple question which was , what have we got to lose by them becoming independent ?  The Nationalist don't need any help from me , they have an inbred hatred of all things English . And you are wrong about them not being the majority the sheer amount of SNP  seats in parliament prove you wrong on that score.

 

My post was not so much having a dig as sheer antipathy towards a nation that only knows how to bite the hand that feeds it. 

 

And so what if Scotland was a net recipient?

 

Would you cut off Northern Ireland?  The North East of England? 

 

Do do you have to pay to be in the U.K. Club?

 

There will just be you and five of your friends left.  Good luck storing the Trident Submarines in your back yard, though.

[The Doctor]

3 hours ago, Bunyip said:

Sanctimonious clap trap as per usual. And how many Scots are living in England ? you still failed to answer a simple question which was , what have we got to lose by them becoming independent ? The Nationalist don't need any help from me , they have an inbred hatred of all things English . And you are wrong about them not being the majority the sheer amount of SNP  seats in parliament prove you wrong on that score.

 

My post was not so much having a dig as sheer antipathy towards a nation that only knows how to bite the hand that feeds it. 

As a percentage far less than Englanders in Scotland.

 

The dyed in the wool nats won't be swayed, but the fence sitters can easily be driven away seeing an attitude like yours from England - and votes like this are always won by the undecideds; not those firmly in one camp already. 

 

Because it's of course impossible to vote for a party you don't completely agree with, and the least of a bad bunch voters don't exist... and that's before we even consider how FPTP isn't necessarily representative (see UKIPs seats to total votes in 2015)

[bovril]

4 hours ago, Bunyip said:

Sanctimonious clap trap as per usual. And how many Scots are living in England ? you still failed to answer a simple question which was , what have we got to lose by them becoming independent ?  The Nationalist don't need any help from me , they have an inbred hatred of all things English . And you are wrong about them not being the majority the sheer amount of SNP  seats in parliament prove you wrong on that score.

 

My post was not so much having a dig as sheer antipathy towards a nation that only knows how to bite the hand that feeds it. 

Bro get off the net and get working. There are people who need subsidising for goodness sake, get to it!

[midland_red]

Logically, the Scots should vote In again. (the oil price has collapsed, England is by far their largest export market, and the currency question remains unsolved).

BUT

The brexit referendum shows that people do not always vote for their own self interests. (Think Nissan carworkers voting themselves onto a dole queue post Brexit).

So the Scots might well vote to go it alone this time.

In any case, this is a decision entirely for them. Nothing to do with the English or Welsh or Irish

 

[Trav Le Bleu]

3 hours ago, Vacamion said:

 

And so what if Scotland was a net recipient?

 

Would you cut off Northern Ireland?  The North East of England? 

 

Do do you have to pay to be in the U.K. Club?

 

There will just be you and five of your friends left.  Good luck storing the Trident Submarines in your back yard, though.

Do what the Irish do and 'rent' the Royal Navy.

[Bunyip]

4 hours ago, The Doctor said:

As a percentage far less than Englanders in Scotland.

 

The dyed in the wool nats won't be swayed, but the fence sitters can easily be driven away seeing an attitude like yours from England - and votes like this are always won by the undecideds; not those firmly in one camp already. 

 

Because it's of course impossible to vote for a party you don't completely agree with, and the least of a bad bunch voters don't exist... and that's before we even consider how FPTP isn't necessarily representative (see UKIPs seats to total votes in 2015)

Utter rubbish . just about everyone in England knows a Jock  ( and plenty of plastic ones ) around every corner. I have no personal problem with the scots  but when I turn on the TV and and see that bitter sanctimonious bigot sturgeon spouting her usual anti English clap trap I have to wonder at the people who voted her in.

[The Doctor]

54 minutes ago, Bunyip said:

Utter rubbish . just about everyone in England knows a Jock  ( and plenty of plastic ones ) around every corner.

Anecdote doesn't trump data - .ca. 400,000 in .ca. 5 million is a greater proportion than .ca. 800,000 in .ca. 53 million.

[Alf Bentley]

2 minutes ago, The Doctor said:

Anecdote doesn't trump data - .ca. 400,000 in .ca. 5 million is a greater proportion than .ca. 800,000 in .ca. 53 million.

 

"Anecdote doesn't trump data".... Good phrase, Doctor. I must remember that one. 

[Buce]

33 minutes ago, The Doctor said:

Anecdote doesn't trump data - .ca. 400,000 in .ca. 5 million is a greater proportion than .ca. 800,000 in .ca. 53 million.

 

30 minutes ago, Alf Bentley said:

 

"Anecdote doesn't trump data".... Good phrase, Doctor. I must remember that one. 

 

Hmm.

 

Is it an anecdote, though?

 

anecdote

 

[an-ik-doht] /ˈæn ɪkˌdoʊt/

 

noun, plural anecdotes or for 2, anecdota [an-ik-doh-tuh] /ˌæn ɪkˈdoʊ tə/ (Show IPA)

1.

a short account of a particular incident or event, especially of an interesting or amusing nature.

2.

a short, obscure historical or biographical account

 

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/anecdote

 

 

Perhaps assertion would be more accurate:

 

assertion

[uh-sur-shuh n] /əˈsɜr ʃən/ 

noun

1.

a positive statement or declaration, often without support or reason:

a mere assertion; an unwarranted assertion.

2.

an act of asserting

 

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/assertion?s=t

[Bunyip]

1 hour ago, Buce said:

 

 

Hmm.

 

Is it an anecdote, though?

 

anecdote

 

[an-ik-doht] /ˈæn ɪkˌdoʊt/

 

noun, plural anecdotes or for 2, anecdota [an-ik-doh-tuh] /ˌæn ɪkˈdoʊ tə/ (Show IPA)

1.

a short account of a particular incident or event, especially of an interesting or amusing nature.

2.

a short, obscure historical or biographical account

 

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/anecdote

 

 

Perhaps assertion would be more accurate:

 

assertion

[uh-sur-shuh n] /əˈsɜr ʃən/ 

noun

1.

a positive statement or declaration, often without support or reason:

a mere assertion; an unwarranted assertion.

2.

an act of asserting

 

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/assertion?s=t

Quite correct. Mine was an assertion not an Anecdote. That's what happens when you strive to make yourself appear intelligent and completely miss the mark.  and you call yourself a doctor ?

[Buce]

22 minutes ago, Bunyip said:

Quite correct. Mine was an assertion not an Anecdote. That's what happens when you strive to make yourself appear intelligent and completely miss the mark.  and you call yourself a doctor ?

 

I wasn't supporting your argument - an assertion doesn't trump data either.

 

I was merely questioning The Doctor's semantics.

[Bunyip]

Just now, Buce said:

 

I wasn't supporting your argument - an assertion doesn't trump data either.

 

I was merely questioning the The Doctor's semantics.

I know . That's why I made no mention of your name . I don't court support.

[The Doctor]

21 minutes ago, Bunyip said:

That's what happens when you strive to make yourself appear intelligent and completely miss the mark. 

A common occurrence for you I'd hazard.

 

Still, I'll take that as a concession, like how you've not bothered to dispute an anti-Scot attitude from the English benefits the nats by swaying the undecided. 

[Bunyip]

23 minutes ago, The Doctor said:

A common occurrence for you I'd hazard.

 

Still, I'll take that as a concession, like how you've not bothered to dispute an anti-Scot attitude from the English benefits the nats by swaying the undecided. 

Take it whatever way you wish. irrelevance is still irrelevance how ever it's dressed up.  

[Darkon84]

Oooooooooh Sturgeons going to be frothing at the mouth like a Crankie on an overdose. The answer is no...for now at least. To be fair, it makes sense. With so much else going on right now, another referendum would cause absolute chaos. Let things start to move along with Brexit and then re-evaluate the situation then.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-39293513

[Innovindil]

1 hour ago, Darkon84 said:

Oooooooooh Sturgeons going to be frothing at the mouth like a Crankie on an overdose. The answer is no...for now at least. To be fair, it makes sense. With so much else going on right now, another referendum would cause absolute chaos. Let things start to move along with Brexit and then re-evaluate the situation then.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-39293513

May's first mistake as PM. She's done excellent so far, but this plays right into Nicola's hands. She can push the "Westminster are out to get us!" narrative as much as she wants now. 

 

It makes sense to us, but I doubt you'll be able to convince the majority of Scots that this was done in their favour.