Scottish Independence Poll

[Innovindil]

1 hour ago, Realist Guy In The Room said:

Sturgeon wants the referendum now as dhe doesn't trust May with the negotiations and who can blame her?!

 

I think this is more about the terms of brexit (or reversing brexit) than it is independence.

 

Wouldnt suprise me if we end up with a referendum with the choice of continue with brexit and say goodbye to Scotland or reverse brexit and keep Scotland as part of the union.

Wtf are you even talking about?

 

There is no way, in any shape or form, that a UK wide referendum would be called to decide the future of Scotland. That is for the Scots to decide, it has nothing to do with us. 

[foxy boxing]

Nicola Sturgeon will keep pressing for independence until they get it! , that's what the SNP are all about. even if they get and lose a 2nd referendum she'll keep pushing. even if they get independence the EU will make it very difficult for Scotland who will have to apply for membership probably on terms that will be in the EU's favour not Scotlands

[Bunyip]

25 minutes ago, Parafox said:

Sturgeons need for another referendum is all about Sturgeon, not Scotland. She desperately wants autonomy and power. Unfortunately for her, most Scots realise that without English Gov subsidising Scotland, particularly now with the fall in oil revenues, Independence would be unsustainable.

You've got three hopes . A hope in hell Bob Hope and no hope .

[yorkie1999]

30 minutes ago, Parafox said:

Sturgeons need for another referendum is all about Sturgeon, not Scotland. She desperately wants autonomy and power. Unfortunately for her, most Scots realise that without English Gov subsidising Scotland, particularly now with the fall in oil revenues, Independence would be unsustainable.

If you look at a few online articles about scottish independence and read the comments from the obvious nationalists, they seem to think that they would be in a similar position to greece where they could take a lot of money out of the system and not actually pay it back. Free money. 

[SMX11]

1 hour ago, yorkie1999 said:

If you look at a few online articles about scottish independence and read the comments from the obvious nationalists, they seem to think that they would be in a similar position to greece where they could take a lot of money out of the system and not actually pay it back. Free money. 

That has worked well for Greece. Probably worse for Scotland.

[Carl the Llama]

1 hour ago, yorkie1999 said:

If you look at a few online articles about scottish independence and read the comments from the obvious nationalists, they seem to think that they would be in a similar position to greece where they could take a lot of money out of the system and not actually pay it back. Free money. 

Anyone intentionally voting to put their country in the same situation as Greece needs putting away for treason.

[yorkie1999]

1 hour ago, SMX11 said:

That has worked well for Greece. Probably worse for Scotland.

I know, Greece owes its creditors 243 billion euros and is about to get another 74 billion euros hand out if they can pay off the 7.4 billion repayment they owe or it's either further austerity or leave the euro zone, which the EU will try to avoid at all costs. They'll never pay it off, ever, eventually it'll get written off, so it'll end up being free cash. What thick numpty actually allowed greece to be part of a trading bloc. "i know, we'll give you unlimited amounts of money and you give us goats cheese and a safe haven for syrian refugees" 

[leicsmac]

I think they might win this time. The Brexit vote changed the landscape.

 

Even though Scotland joining the EU would be a bureaucratic nightmare for a lot of reasons, the SNP just have to stick with saying that it's on the cards and people will buy it as a powerful argument. The facts of them actually joining wouldn't matter - facts don't really matter at all right now.

 

If they do win, things may well unravel.

[BoyJones]

I don't know anyone who would shed a tear if Scotland left the union. Personally don't care one way or another. Fed up of hearing about it, especially because Sturgeon comes across as just a selfish opportunist / glory hunter. She has no real interest in democracy as she has been happy since 2015 to ignore the democratic vote of the Scottish people undertaken in 2014, and continue to bang on about independence. 

 

But if Sturgeon thinks the EU would take them on, it would have to ignore key membership application rules. Firstly that you have a proven stable economy and secondly you would guarantee to meet your EU memberships financial bills.

 

With the North Sea oil income all but gone and no hand outs from Westminster, it is very difficult to see how Scotland could meet any obligations. It looks like Sturgeon is ignoring these aspects as well. 

[Thracian]

Sturgeon would go on and on finding reasons for yet more referendums until the Scottish people agree with her and then will probably never want another referendum about anything - unless she wants it.

 

So if the Scots want her to lead their country they might as well leave and get it over with.

 

I think it would be a pity. I've always believed in the union and in treating Scotland, Northern Ireland and the Welsh fairly and properly. But Sturgeon doesn't want union democracy, she wants what's good for Scotland and to hell with what anyone else votes for.

 

Take Scotland and a few other pockets out of the Brexit vote and it left a massive mandate for leaving the EU and events since, including the Turkey rallies fall-out,  have only emphasised my belief in the decision for all that I think it regrettable that Europe's federalist obsession and blinkered ideals should have prompted such a vote.  

 

Who knows what will finally emerge but the changes over the last couple of decades haven't been right and if Scotland chooses to sell its soul to the EU instead of the union that's there choice. It will give them chance to fashion the socialist utopia they seem so set on, assuming they can find the funds to run it. And the best of luck to them.

 

Until this day I've always wanted union with the Scots. But not against their will, And not with Sturgeon's constantly antagonist attitude. I'm voting to give the Scots the independence so many of them seem to crave and would sincerely wish them the very best if it actually happened. For me it's like a bad apple in a football team.  If they don't want to be there, what's the point in keeping them and listening to their - or Sturgeon's - constant moaning.    

 

        

 

  

[Strokes]

I wonder if we could persuade the remain voters to move over the boarder if Scotland become 'independent' and part of the EU?

See who gets the best bed to lie in.

[Webbo]

Just to clarify, is voting to leave a union because things are imposed upon you by foreigners you didn't vote for still racist?

[Strokes]

Just now, Webbo said:

Just to clarify, is voting to leave a union because things are imposed upon you by foreigners you didn't vote for still racist?

Not unless you qualify for a little englander hat.

[Jon the Hat]

Madness.  Scotland outside the UK, outside the EU, outside NATO will do what exactly?  We would need to put a wall on the border to stop all the economic migrants.

 

And if you think the EU would let them in, could I introduce you to Spain, who will block any attempt by any secessionist state to join the EU ever.  I mean ever, they would be tearing up their own nation, and they won't do that.

[Carl the Llama]

4 minutes ago, Webbo said:

Just to clarify, is voting to leave a union because things are imposed upon you by foreigners you didn't vote for still racist?

If the reason for casting that vote is racially motivated, yes.  Obviously.

 

1 minute ago, Jon the Hat said:

Madness.  Scotland outside the UK, outside the EU, outside NATO will do what exactly?  We would need to put a wall on the border to stop all the economic migrants.

 

And if you think the EU would let them in, could I introduce you to Spain, who will block any attempt by any secessionist state to join the EU ever.  I mean ever, they would be tearing up their own nation, and they won't do that.

Don't tell Nicola that, if Scotland leave the UK we'll save millions of pounds that we can spend on a new hospital every week.

[Webbo]

I can see the SNP's battle bus will have £350 million a week we won't be able to spend on the NHS if we leave, painted on the side.

[Buce]

13 minutes ago, Webbo said:

I can see the SNP's battle bus will have £350 million a week we won't be able to spend on the NHS if we leave, painted on the side.

 

No, it'll scare-monger about all the English immigrants escaping austerity and stealing Scottish jobs..

[Carl the Llama]

50 minutes ago, Webbo said:

I can see the SNP's battle bus will have £350 million a week we won't be able to spend on the NHS if we leave, painted on the side.

Absolutely, and they'll be chanting "give back control" at their rallies.

[Strokes]

50 minutes ago, Buce said:

 

No, it'll scare-monger about all the English immigrants escaping austerity and stealing Scottish jobs..

They might go with, Turkey set to join the UK within the next 10 years. That would be sure to sway those on the fence.

[daverollo]

20 hours ago, Vacamion said:

So...Here we are again. 

 

This one feels different.

 

Those who seek independence only need a 3% swing from last time.  

 

For all the economic arguments, the Brexit vote showed us that you can wrap a campaign in a flag and people will only concentrate on the flag, however much it might end up hurting people in their pocket. You can even lie about stuff and put it on the side of a bus. 

 

There is absolutely no chance of a united "better together" campaign like there was last time.  With Labour in disarray, Scotland faces the prospect of a Tory government it didn't vote for until the mid 2020s.  Likewise, it looks like Scotland will get a hard brexit driven by right wing Tories, which, again, Nationalists will point out that Scotland did not vote for.

 

There will be no "love bombing" this time (à la Bowie and Barrowman   last time) from south of the border.  Indeed, the vibe I get from most right wing English is that they would quite like Scotland to get stuffed.  I think there will be some pretty harsh words from England which will only help the independence movement.

 

The BBC, stung by the demonstrations last time, will try to tread a path that doesn't see it labelled the State Broadcaster, again to the benefit of the independence movement.

 

Nicola Sturgeon is a better politician and a better speaker than Salmond was.  People up here (including me) who wouldn't vote for her party respect her.

 

As an English immigrant up here, who voted No last time, it saddens me to contemplate the break up of the UK and becoming a foreigner in the country I have made my home.  I dread the prospect of another two years of anything like the acrimony of last time, when families and friendships were damaged.  I still know who, at my place of work, was a yesser and I bet they all know who was a No voter.  I have friends I now speak with less often, because I was a "Yoon" and they a "Nat".

 

However, I think a lot of the energy with which people would have defended the Union has disappeared.  Yessers were always more vehement, more in your face and, after Brexit, unionists have fewer bullets.

 

A lot of people who voted No last time have told me that they'll vote Yes this time.  It's a case of "we are poorer either way. We are probably poorer because of Brexit, so screw it, we might as well be poorer because of Independence".

 

I honestly don't know how I'll vote this time.  I'll try and look at the arguments and the evidence and make my mind up at the time.

 

To my chagrin, I anticipate that Scotland will go it alone this time and there will be no going back.

 

What do you guys think?

 

Do you even give a monkeys?

 

Would you be happy to be a citizen of Wangland (Wales and England)?

An excellent well thought out post.  I am in a similar position to you, Englishman living happily on the outskirts of Glasgow for the last 16 years.  Even set up a small business and been self employed for the last 13 years - but heavily reliant on trade with English based companies to make it work.

 

The main issue with the SNP is that they are fanatics and by there very nature, dangerous, in their single minded pursuit of one goal, whatever the cost.  They could certainly be pigeon holed as closet racists, especially judging by some of the bile that was spewed out in the lead up to the last vote in 2014 that my wife personally experienced.

 

They and there supporters will use any means necessary to misdirect and misinform the public and show a complete lack of knowledge around what will really happen.  Having been through 2 referendums recently and seen the bullshit spouted by both sides I am not looking forward to a 3rd 

 

I have nothing in principle against the idea of a nation becoming self governing and gave serious thought and research the last time around, but the reality is Scotland will be a basket case of an economy if they decide to go it alone.  Each year I download and absorb the 'Government Expenditure Revenue Scotland' (GERS) reports and give them the benefit of the doubt and include the geographical share of the oil revenue and still they carry on spending way more than they take in tax revenue. http://www.gov.scot/Topics/Statistics/Browse/Economy/GERS With the gap/deficit widening while the rest of the UK is coming down.

 

Unless they can present a clear vision and plan as to how they see things unfolding over the initial 5 years and beyond following an exit then there is no way they will get a yes from me.

- What currency would they use?  Carrying on using sterling will come with restrictions as it will be linked to what the Bank of England do it terms of interest rates and borrowing rules (not independent)

- If they use the Scottish Groat, they will need to set up a central bank.  What credit rating will Scotland get, who will they approach to lend them money to feed their benefits habit while they try and return the finances to a surplus? At what rate will they be charged?  If it is like Greece then a mass round of spending cuts will need to be implemented to meet the lenders requirements.  SNP complain now about austerity (or should we call it by it's real name, balancing the books!) it hasn't seen anything yet.

- A separate currency presents other issues as well for joe public. Mortgage finance, at present if you are paid in any currency other than sterling then their are only 3 lenders in Scotland who will lend you money - this to meet EU regulation/rules.  There will be a mass exodus of English based banks wanting to lend money in groats.

 

The real shame is another 2 years of a Scottish Government taking its eye of the ball and letting down its citizens by giving up the day job of running the country to focus its fanatical mind on a divorce.

 

[Bunyip]

I'm just wondering what does Scotland give to the UK ?  I mean what is the point of them even being in the UK ?  Any oil revenue from them is massively outweighed by the money we send to subsidise them . 

 

So if they did vote to leave how in any way shape or form would it bother us ? We would be better off financially and it would be an end to their constant anti English racism. Give them the vote and lets get shot of them once and for all.

[Buce]

20 minutes ago, Bunyip said:

I'm just wondering what does Scotland give to the UK ?  I mean what is the point of them even being in the UK ?  Any oil revenue from them is massively outweighed by the money we send to subsidise them . 

 

So if they did vote to leave how in any way shape or form would it bother us ? We would be better off financially and it would be an end to their constant anti English racism. Give them the vote and lets get shot of them once and for all.

 

 

[Carl the Llama]

But do we really want it?

[Vacamion]

23 minutes ago, Bunyip said:

I'm just wondering what does Scotland give to the UK ?  I mean what is the point of them even being in the UK ?  Any oil revenue from them is massively outweighed by the money we send to subsidise them . 

 

So if they did vote to leave how in any way shape or form would it bother us ? We would be better off financially and it would be an end to their constant anti English racism. Give them the vote and lets get shot of them once and for all.

 

It depends on where you draw the boundary and how you divvy up the tax take.

 

Nationalists argue that Scotland has been a net contributor over the last forty years, but since the oil price collapsed they run a much bigger deficit than the rest of the U.K.

 

Of course the U.K. would lose 1/3 of its land area, its nuke sub base and (what's left of) oil bearing territorial waters.

 

You must also bear in mind the fact that there are 400,000 English living up here, by far Scotlands biggest "ethnic group". There are cross border family ties in the millions and we share a lot of our culture.

 

Of course, you don't care about of that, you just wanted to have a dig.  English people like you talking like this and flicking the V northwards will certainly help the rabid Nationalists (who at no time have ever been in the majority) with their quest to break up Britain.

 

Well done you.

[MPH]

4 hours ago, leicsmac said:

I think they might win this time. The Brexit vote changed the landscape.

 

Even though Scotland joining the EU would be a bureaucratic nightmare for a lot of reasons, the SNP just have to stick with saying that it's on the cards and people will buy it as a powerful argument. The facts of them actually joining wouldn't matter - facts don't really matter at all right now.

 

If they do win, things may well unravel.

 

 

No offence intended, but you don't have a very good track record of predicting recent Poll results!